Resting Resting REsting?!

[EDM Entori]

So .. I've been playing a new character, actually two recently. one thing I've had a habit of noticing, is how often parties want to rest, especially in what I find to be rather odd and strange places..

someone dies, they want to rest, the spells ware off they want to rest. Some one farts... they want to rest (ok joke).


My point is, there is very little deliberation, nor thought put into what resting is, what it should be, nor, proper conservation of party resources, to allow a party to go a longer peroid without having to rest.

I cannot speak for every FRCer. but my personal opinion is to avoid resting outside of a town, or somewhere your character finds "homey" at all cost. unless it is a dire circumstance, with proper places to buckle down, and I expect RP.. I expect people rping preparing spells, and studying tomes, taking the time to "fluff" up what is going on.

not wait for a 5 second counter to pop up and go through.

but I've said what I beleive, I would like opinions, FRC in some places discourages wide spread resting so as a player base I would like to see people discuss this.

one comment per player, thought out deliberations on this matter. good clean chat, no one starting a flame war.

*passes conch* GO!

[highknight]

Before this goes any further!

Keep posts civil.



Respect others' opinions.



Continue.

[EDM Entori]

Sept 8, 2011 21:40:25 GMT -5 @highknight said:

Before this goes any further!

Keep posts civil.



Respect others' opinions.



Continue.

thought I said that?

[watcheronthewall]

I think it depends entirely upon the person. For instance, an elf might feel completely at home resting on the forest floor (or rping climbing a tree and sleeping in the boughs) whereas a city-bred human might consider it dangerous. Likewise a dwarf might feel far more at home sleeping on their bedroll in a stony cavern and thus more in tune with their gods to be able to pray there.

This is of course different from a party nearly wiping, dragging themselves to a place of relative safety and all proceeding to rest without setting a watch despite being in extremely hostile territory. Every one of my PCs, even if they're a cowardly wizard, asks someone to stand watch if an entire party is resting. To me that isn't metagaming because even your average farmer (indeed, especially your average farmer) knows that the 'world outside' is an especially dangerous place, and horrible nasty painful death could strike at any instant if one drops their guard. Often times, even if one doesn't.

[lowstorm]

My groups sometimes rest a lot, sometimes not so much. Normally its after a hurdle was made. Sometimes there's many hurdles in the dungeon, sometimes there's none. For example-umm... the drow. You rest before setting out. You rest before you get to them, you rest after you're partway in. You rest so you can retreat the hell out of there... Think it depends on both the party you're with, and what you're tackling.

[Duchess in Masquerade]

I have mixed feelings about the resting thing on FRC to be perfectly honest.

While on one hand I understand some areas you aren't allowed to rest in because otherwise soloing would be far too easy for some classes at certain levels. There is also the element of resting in "odd" places - a smelly and cold crypt for instance. And yes, there are people who will not RP everything out, and they will rest literally ANYWHERE without the slightest regard to what may be lurking around the corner.

On the other hand I find it limiting and a general pain but ONLY because I've come from servers that didn't have these game mechanics set into effect. On some older servers I've played on they left where/when you rested up to the player, yes there was a rest timer and yes you needed the necessary supplies but there wasn't anything that kept someone from resting anyplace they chose.

Regardless, resting in my personal opinion should always be RP'ed out. Where are you resting? Why are you resting? What is your character doing while they're "resting" ? Should your character be resting right this moment? Was the rest planned ahead of time or has your group suddenly been besieged by a catastrophe that makes resting essential for progression?

Or...

Maybe my character is simply tired and not resting to recover any spells or game mechanic related abilities, they're resting because they feel like it, they need sleep! There are so many ways you can RP out resting, and why you're doing it. I think there should always be a reason behind it though, whether you're in town or outside of town, in a dungeon or in a forest.

[Deleted]

I think it's perfectly reasonable to want to rest after someone dies, in most circumstances. It would be easy to rp wanting time to deal with coming back to life and all, before fighting dangerous monsters that might kill you again ;D Given all the complaints about people not taking death seriously, I'd love for people to ask for time to rest after dying.

Depending on situation, resting when spells expire might be a very smart thing to do. If the party is relying heavily on certain magics to prevail, it might be worth the risk of something surprising them while resting versus the near certainty of bad things happening without the protections. This is magnified at level 6, since protections tend to expire far sooner ... as compared to an epic caster that might be able to last 4 IRL hours with the same protections.

If you are going through huge multi-level dungeons/dangerous places you might have to rest. For example, it's unlikely you're going to travel to the underdark and down into its depths without resting a number of times.

There should definitely be some RP while resting, but I think the amount of RP is going to vary based on interest in that sort of rp ... pretty much like any other kind of rp on this server. Some may find it tedious to rp the details of memorizing/praying spells every single time they rest. Eg, they may want to focus rp on the things that are different in a trip, rather than the things that are the same. This doesn't mean nothing should be rp'd ... but it might be brief instead of spending 10 minutes describing memorizing spidery arcane words.

The location of the party's camp can also play into making it unique ... it's a lot easier to come up with something different if you incorporate the location specific weather/visibility/rumors/etc into what your character is doing during the rest period. Fighting drow in the underdark? Perhaps your character would take different precautions to protect a camp than fighting giants in a swamp.

[zDark Shadowz]

I reckon clerics and wizards should only be allowed to rest/pray/study once a game day. Wizards need to study, and clerics to pray to their faith...

Bards, sorcerers, and druids rely on nature and natural talent, so they're as good for resting as the next warrior to draw upon their inspiration once more.... but that's just me.

[quelunia]

There are ways to fix the whole resting issue but it takes the responsobility to the players not the DMs. My sorcerer, he has buff spells he uses on himself and others, he fights on the front lines like a warrior, and uses his spells in combat to help take down bosses and what not like a good little war mage. When it is time to rest, in the middle of a journey, it usually is long over the four hours in game required to rest. Typically if its dark outside, he wont need to rest till its light out, and vicey versy... This is a simulation of a whole day gone by. He will rest once on a journey. Then at the end. Thats about it. It takes grit and discipline on the players part to go without spells that they know they will need, but if the player isnt so worried about haveing all his spells all the time, well then a good simulation of a full day being the light cycles between day and not on the game works for me. Some parties I am with go from one quest to the other. Do I as a player want the XP? Heck ya.... but would my war mage really be capable of standign in the front lines banging away with a sword and drawing from the weave all day long? No. So I say in game, I am a bit weary, I have taken some good hits and think I will sit this one out to rest up. The only times he continues is if he comes back with spells, and didnt get hurt hardly at all. If he went down to badly wounded.....guess what I am sitting the next one out. If the resting thing is a big issue maybe a script that gets....was he/she badly wounded? If so then... fatigue. Are all spell slots empty....if so....fatigue.

Yes they would want to rest, but if the party they were with wanted the spells they would wait. If not they would go. Most parties my sorc goes with are willing to wait. They know what they are getting by having him.


As far as my limit to when my sorc will rest, if we are facing major monsters that are wearing through stoneskins left and right..... this is a bit beyound my ability to keep up with, there by when ,my spells are close to running out.....IE. When I am down to one haste and one Imp Invis....(to escape if needed) I start saying its time to rest or retreat....before that when he is running close to that he says we need to find a secure place to hold up, thats his warning to everyone...I am almost out of spells....I got enough for me to live...but if we dont find some place you arent getting much if any more from me.

Just my thoughts. Instead of making it something more for the DMs to worry over, why dont we make it a players job to ploice their own actions. You know like personal responsibility.

[tarus]

See the thread on retreating. Resting in dungeons or in wilderness areas extends dungeon play before retreat is needed. If buffs wear off and you're still not finished then you needed to have called it quits a long time ago unless you're in a dungeon that's far too easy for your group. When the party members die and get raised, their spells are gone... no more buffs. I don't think it's against roleplay to want to find a place to hole in for some quick R&R.

Also... I find it even more immersion breaking to see fighter types go a whole long multi-level dungeon witout stopping for a break. No one can carry a shield and swing a sword that many times without getting exhausted. Warriors need rest and sleep too. Having no spells or abilities that need replenishing is no excuse to refuse to rest.

Again, buffs buffs buffs. If you don't need the buffs of the spellcaster in the group then you should find a harder place to adventure.

[iangallowglas]

Sept 8, 2011 21:33:39 GMT -5 EDM Entori said:

So .. I've been playing a new character, actually two recently. one thing I've had a habit of noticing, is how often parties want to rest, especially in what I find to be rather odd and strange places..

someone dies, they want to rest, the spells ware off they want to rest. Some one farts... they want to rest (ok joke).


My point is, there is very little deliberation, nor thought put into what resting is, what it should be, nor, proper conservation of party resources, to allow a party to go a longer peroid without having to rest.

I cannot speak for every FRCer. but my personal opinion is to avoid resting outside of a town, or somewhere your character finds "homey" at all cost. unless it is a dire circumstance, with proper places to buckle down, and I expect RP.. I expect people rping preparing spells, and studying tomes, taking the time to "fluff" up what is going on.

not wait for a 5 second counter to pop up and go through.

but I've said what I beleive, I would like opinions, FRC in some places discourages wide spread resting so as a player base I would like to see people discuss this.

one comment per player, thought out deliberations on this matter. good clean chat, no one starting a flame war.

*passes conch* GO!

Got to agree 1000 % with the Ent on this.

I have a character that will only rest once a RL day, with the exception of resting to raise folks from the dead or cast restorations. Most others just won't rest in dungeons when other folks do unless there's a party member death involved, and then only when you can find a secure place to rest.

[tarus]

Personally, I wish this game used the mana system. It just makes resting more immersive than "implanting" 13 spells into your brain for the day.

Don't get me wrong... I love the challenge of having to select my spells for the day over the mana system where you can cast on a whim (high-five sorcerers).

But even some well-known FR novelists will use creative licenses when dealing with how many spells and which spells a spellcaster can cast at any given time. Elminster was teaching a young man proper spellcasting and told the young lad to throw a fireball at a rock over and over.

The young man studied his spellbook, threw a fireball, sat down and studied his spellbook, stood up, threw a fireball.... all day. The guy could only throw one 3rd lvl spell per day by standard rules, but Ed Greenwood felt it would be better to allow further study to extend that.

This is more along the lines of how I see resting in FRC. If we were going by the whole ruleset of PnP who here knows how long it would take for an epic wizard to fully study and prepare his ENTIRE spell set for the day? Anyone? Anyone?

days! I found a small footnote in a PnP book once that stated no epic level wizard prepares his entire spell set because it would just take way too long. So there you have it. You can cast 4 level 9 spells per day but you only have time enough to prepare one of them before the sun goes down again.... unless you want to prepare ONLY lvl 9 spells for the day in which case I think it's 3? And then you have to sleep because you've been studying all day and you have to start all over!

So I don't use that system when I'm playing this game. I go more along the lines of what Ed Greenwood described which allows for a mid-day resting to reset your daily spell set.

It's just more immersive for me.

[zDark Shadowz]

Sept 9, 2011 12:00:11 GMT -5 @tarus said:

The young man studied his spellbook, threw a fireball, sat down and studied his spellbook, stood up, threw a fireball.... all day. The guy could only throw one 3rd lvl spell per day by standard rules, but Ed Greenwood felt it would be better to allow further study to extend that.

Spellfire book, right?

[tarus]

Sept 9, 2011 18:10:13 GMT -5 zDark Shadowz said:

Sept 9, 2011 12:00:11 GMT -5 @tarus said:

The young man studied his spellbook, threw a fireball, sat down and studied his spellbook, stood up, threw a fireball.... all day. The guy could only throw one 3rd lvl spell per day by standard rules, but Ed Greenwood felt it would be better to allow further study to extend that.

Spellfire book, right?

Wow! Someone got my reference! Yep!!!

[zDark Shadowz]

Yeah, in that books case he re-memorised just one spell from the spellbook... and that person in particular had an exceptional memory at remembering spells.

He even used the spell off a scroll from memory from miles away, that could only be used usually if it was right in front of them.

[minion]

Sept 9, 2011 21:21:56 GMT -5 @tarus said:

Sept 9, 2011 18:10:13 GMT -5 zDark Shadowz said:

Spellfire book, right?

Wow! Someone got my reference! Yep!!!

mage's name is Narm. had this nagging feeling i knew what you were talking about. the book name cinched it, as i could pull it out of the closet and check.

on topic: i'm hit-or-miss in RP'ing spell prep and picnic lunches, as that gets pretty old when done obsessively (there's a reason you don't see characters in movies and TV shows eating 3 meals a day, pooping, napping, getting in their half a dozen glasses of water, taking their insulin shots, etc, etc, etc, unless it's actually relevant to the story or at least doesn't detract from the entertainment value of the show, which it would, if allowed to aggregate to "realistic" proportions).

i'm of the opinion that if something is hard-coded to mean or suggest an occurrence, then i have no absolute need to explicitly RP it. for example: much of the time, unless there is some particular element of it i care to RP for whatever reason, i typically allow the server-generated "you return the key to the innkeeper" to stand in for an emote that says nearly the same thing. counter example: Radu will literally toss the key from across the room onto the counter, to display his ranged prowess, but that's why it's done, not to show that he returned the key.

likewise, if my PC is resting, well... you'll probably know it even if i don't emote it. and you'll not just know s/he's eating, but you'll know what s/he's eating (unnecessary but still rather cool little addition by the build-team, thanks guys/gals ). emotes are great for clarification, but i don't feel the need to use them unless there is something unusual or unexpected about the event in question, or the event isn't intuitively obvious.

emoting too much is better than emoting too little, but i'm not the worlds fastest typist, and i'd rather not spend what little time i have to play telling the room i'm in that my PC is "wolfing down" his/her food, instead of simply allowing the server to inform them that s/he's eating it, unless that specific fact is important to me, my PC, or someone who will hear it. i could spend hours a day emoting, but as i typically have half a dozen hours a week, sometimes a bit more, sometimes less, i'd rather focus on "gross communication" over "fine detail," unless that detail is terribly important.

[tarus]

Sept 9, 2011 22:49:09 GMT -5 zDark Shadowz said:

Yeah, in that books case he re-memorised just one spell from the spellbook... and that person in particular had an exceptional memory at remembering spells.

He even used the spell off a scroll from memory from miles away, that could only be used usually if it was right in front of them.

See? That could be said about anyone's PC. After all, only the exceptional adventurers can reach epic status. So.... we can all simply do the same.

[zDark Shadowz]

Are you saying that any PC can read and consume a scroll even if the scroll is no where near his person?

[tarus]

Sept 10, 2011 2:16:47 GMT -5 zDark Shadowz said:

Are you saying that any PC can read and consume a scroll even if the scroll is no where near his person?

You can try it if you want to, but what I was saying was that I RP spellcasting and spell preparation for my PC's as more along the lines of quick study that can be done multiple times per day. Rather than having one of my wizards only able to prepare spells once every real life day, I instead allow them to rest and prepare every 40 real life minutes as it's coded in on this server and I used the book reference to explain my choice.

Read all you want into my response and continue to try and debate, but this is what I do and why I do it. You can indeed decide to do whatever you wish.

For a quick reference of what I said (which was repeated in this post) here's my original post. As I hope you'll note it says nothing about reading scrolls from miles away. I made the reference about multiple memorization per day. I like it.

Sept 9, 2011 12:00:11 GMT -5 @tarus said:

Personally, I wish this game used the mana system. It just makes resting more immersive than "implanting" 13 spells into your brain for the day.

Don't get me wrong... I love the challenge of having to select my spells for the day over the mana system where you can cast on a whim (high-five sorcerers).

But even some well-known FR novelists will use creative licenses when dealing with how many spells and which spells a spellcaster can cast at any given time. Elminster was teaching a young man proper spellcasting and told the young lad to throw a fireball at a rock over and over.

The young man studied his spellbook, threw a fireball, sat down and studied his spellbook, stood up, threw a fireball.... all day. The guy could only throw one 3rd lvl spell per day by standard rules, but Ed Greenwood felt it would be better to allow further study to extend that.

This is more along the lines of how I see resting in FRC. If we were going by the whole ruleset of PnP who here knows how long it would take for an epic wizard to fully study and prepare his ENTIRE spell set for the day? Anyone? Anyone?

days! I found a small footnote in a PnP book once that stated no epic level wizard prepares his entire spell set because it would just take way too long. So there you have it. You can cast 4 level 9 spells per day but you only have time enough to prepare one of them before the sun goes down again.... unless you want to prepare ONLY lvl 9 spells for the day in which case I think it's 3? And then you have to sleep because you've been studying all day and you have to start all over!

So I don't use that system when I'm playing this game. I go more along the lines of what Ed Greenwood described which allows for a mid-day resting to reset your daily spell set.

It's just more immersive for me.

[elysiumfields]

This is low level players you're discussing.

Without repeated rest you're going to get nowhere fast. This doesn't mean so much for a fighter or rogue even though the rest to heal up is the need.

It's a game. I'm not going to expect that a level one wizard gets to be slightly useful for 10-20 minutes and has to wait 24 hours before he can be useful for 10-20 minutes again. The game doesn't allow for that.

If you want to only rest once per day (qualified, because even then there's an admission to exceptions) that's fine, but the spells you're using don't follow the same rules. Your 1 hour per level spells only last 10 minutes at level 1. How do you role play the shortness of your character's spells?

Sure if you're a wizard rp resting by reading a book, if you're a Paladin or Cleric pray as long as you like, a fighter could crash out after such physical exertion, a rogue could polish their nails and do some yoga to keep supple. It all adds to the immersion, but it is what it is. Low level grinding is low level grinding and the only way to get out of that cycle is to get levels.

It's FRC in Faerun based on DnD, but NWN isn't perfect and we have to make ooc and ic exceptions for everything to work.

[Lady Frost]

Sept 10, 2011 11:01:37 GMT -5 elysiumfields said:

This is low level players you're discussing.

Without repeated rest you're going to get nowhere fast. This doesn't mean so much for a fighter or rogue even though the rest to heal up is the need.

It's a game. I'm not going to expect that a level one wizard gets to be slightly useful for 10-20 minutes and has to wait 24 hours before he can be useful for 10-20 minutes again. The game doesn't allow for that.

If you want to only rest once per day (qualified, because even then there's an admission to exceptions) that's fine, but the spells you're using don't follow the same rules. Your 1 hour per level spells only last 10 minutes at level 1. How do you role play the shortness of your character's spells?

Sure if you're a wizard rp resting by reading a book, if you're a Paladin or Cleric pray as long as you like, a fighter could crash out after such physical exertion, a rogue could polish their nails and do some yoga to keep supple. It all adds to the immersion, but it is what it is. Low level grinding is low level grinding and the only way to get out of that cycle is to get levels.

It's FRC in Faerun based on DnD, but NWN isn't perfect and we have to make ooc and ic exceptions for everything to work.

My thoughts too

[danifae]

Good OP, though i think it can be a bit touchy as we can see from some of the posts.

I actually agree with Soulf 100%. I think he said that pretty damn perfect.

Honestly, there is only one thing that REALLY bugs me about resting. And thats when, as a party, someone brings up needing a break. And someone instantly double clicks the rest button and is all of a sudden camping out and resting.

I dont have to have the details, but if in a cave, it IS nice to at least have a brief rp on whether its a safe place to rest or not. And if they decide, its nice to see that someone *Stands gaurd*

[lucid]

Resting mid-dungeon, to me, offsets the fact that any pausing to actually RP anywhere in-dungeon is eating up a lethal quantity of your buff time.

A brief conversation that in RL would take one minute takes longer by text than by speech. Whatever ratio you want, X minutes of real time for that conversation is a huge bite in the adjusted hours/lvl of spell duration. Or turns/lvl, worse luck. Add up a few of these and you see why powergamers hate RPers.

So I see three choices, all with crappy points:

1. Respect the mechanics, ignore RP in favor of plowing through before buffs fade
2. Get your RP on and let the spells fade, accept that you won't be clearing this dungeon and should retreat well before fade to give you time
3. Get your RP on and clear the dungeon with the one OOC speedbump of an odd rest to renew the buffs

I see 3 as the lesser evil. I also prefer RP to not have speedbumps, and resting is certainly one of them, along with healing kits and a dozen other compromises to reality this engine creates. And I'm willing to take a dive for RP, but not for a mechanical inconsistency with the very RP I'm supposed to be taking a dive for.

[EDM Entori]

Sept 22, 2011 20:19:34 GMT -5 lucid said:

Resting mid-dungeon, to me, offsets the fact that any pausing to actually RP anywhere in-dungeon is eating up a lethal quantity of your buff time.

A brief conversation that in RL would take one minute takes longer by text than by speech. Whatever ratio you want, X minutes of real time for that conversation is a huge bite in the adjusted hours/lvl of spell duration. Or turns/lvl, worse luck. Add up a few of these and you see why powergamers hate RPers.

So I see three choices, all with crappy points:

1. Respect the mechanics, ignore RP in favor of plowing through before buffs fade
2. Get your RP on and let the spells fade, accept that you won't be clearing this dungeon and should retreat well before fade to give you time
3. Get your RP on and clear the dungeon with the one OOC speedbump of an odd rest to renew the buffs

I see 3 as the lesser evil. I also prefer RP to not have speedbumps, and resting is certainly one of them, along with healing kits and a dozen other compromises to reality this engine creates. And I'm willing to take a dive for RP, but not for a mechanical inconsistency with the very RP I'm supposed to be taking a dive for.

what about accurately planning conserving the amount of magic used, and rping it as such. I know alot of people who buff before you enter a dungeon.

but what about buffing half way through, or saving the best magic for last. buffs included.


buffs per hour here last plenty of time.. 10 minutes per level actually, so that means a level 8 caster gets about an hour and twenty minutes un extended for their spells. that plenty of time for most level 8 casters. turn per level casters get 10 minutes at level 10, 20 minutes at an extended. spell.. also plenty of time given the added bonus of most turn per level spells.

you can talk and walk too.. no reason Rping should "take longer" .. especially if someone is scouting.., talk while the scout finds out what is ahead.

[darinder]

Sept 22, 2011 21:50:15 GMT -5 EDM Entori said:

but what about buffing half way through, or saving the best magic for last. buffs included.

Sorry to pull just one point from your post but isn't this a tad metagamey? How is your character supposed to know when "last" is? Or, for that matter, "half-way"?

As for walking and RPing, I often use the old Shift-click to start my char walking somewhere and type away while they move.

[DM Hawk]

Just a few random thoughts from my personal point of view.

Our module is contained within a game that has imperfect mechanics. Our community is based on roleplaying - that is immersing as much as we can while in game, in spite of imperfect game mechanics. On FRC, immersive roleplay should regularly trump considerations of mechanics.

Sometimes ooc knowldge accelerates the rate at which spells are expended as we know our character is going to rest very soon. We know usually what's around the next bend in the dungeon and where/when we can safely rest again.

If one tries to shut that knowledge out and look from the character's eyes, they don't know what lies ahead or how long it will be before they can rest and renew again (for casters, rest means a full night's rest to refresh the mind before studying, praying for spells; it isn't a 5 minute pit stop as we sometimes make it out to be).

From this perspective, resting would probably occur less frequently and characters would be encouraged to be more strategic with their magic, conserving as much as possible, not pacing to the next resting spot known to be ten minutes away.

I find that fostering this uncertainty makes the game more challenging and ultimately more fun. It helps to stave off the sense of grinding that seeps in when the experience becomes more about mechanics and less about the character's story. The game is more exciting when our characters aren't optimized all the time - it introduces a little uncertainty and risk.

If spells burn out because a conversation took too long, that's ok? Life is full of suprises. Let the characters roll with it. Maybe they won't defeat the dungeon this time or maybe they will. In either case they will be more resourceful and develop more as characters for the experience. It makes this 'run' something different and unique than the last.

There are certainly times to rest in an adventure. When that time comes think about roleplaying the scenario for a bit. A scene comes to mind from Fellowship of the Ring in the Mines of Moria where one of the hobbits got a little too curious about a well. Immersing in your character means resting becomes a roleplaying opportunity to enjoy for a little while, not just the grind of bedroll, eat (damn, that was a delicious bowl of the Special), buff, action, rinse, and repeat.

To get the most out of FRC, I encourage folks to maximize their immersion, paying less attention to game mechanics - resting less and taking the time to rolelpay some down time when the time comes to rest.

[Shamoke]

Sept 22, 2011 23:39:22 GMT -5 DM Hawk said:

From this perspective, resting would probably occur less frequently and characters would be encouraged to be more strategic with their magic, conserving as much as possible, not pacing to the next resting spot known to be ten minutes away.

I find that fostering this uncertainty makes the game more challenging and ultimately more fun. It helps to stave off the sense of grinding that seeps in when the experience becomes more about mechanics and less about the character's story. The game is more exciting when our characters aren't optimized all the time - it introduces a little uncertainty and risk.

If spells burn out because a conversation took too long, that's ok? Life is full of suprises. Let the characters roll with it. Maybe they won't defeat the dungeon this time or maybe they will. In either case they will be more resourceful and develop more as characters for the experience. It makes this 'run' something different and unique than the last.

I can see your points, and to some extent they do make sense. However, I will present my experience on FRC which has been quite the opposite:

While leveling up, I had a lot of fun exploring new areas and finding some great xp locations. However, I felt like I missed out on a lot of the action. I had to prepare and preserve buff spells for our warriors so they could do most of the onslaught. I would ONLY get to use offensive spells on the boss fight, which would be over quickly, assuming I wasn't forced to counterspell.

Once I started getting higher level, spell durations lasted longer, more spell slots, etc., benefited me. I also became more familiar with my character's consistent limitations, and resting locations. This allowed me to go through dungeons quicker, because I could use offensive magic to aid the warriors, but conserve enough to make it to the resting spot. THIS WAS THE MOST FUN FOR ME!!! Firstly, I got to kill stuff. Secondly, dungeon exploration went much quicker (more time for RPing back in town, or just logging off early for the night to get a good night's sleep). I'm a very self-competitive person. Oocly, if I go through dungeons quicker, or am finally able to duo/solo a particular one in reasonable time, I feel a sense of accomplishment. I know my character does too.

I understand the resting system is being reworked. I am open to it, but I have definitely taken a hit when it comes to certain dungeons. Since my tanks do not play nearly as much anymore, I relied on soloing some dungeons to get a steady flow of xp and gold. With resting spots being removed, I lost my ability to do some things alone. When I do get the chance to play with a tank, I am back to conserving and being bored. I lost that sense of accomplishment.

[trebarruna]

Sept 8, 2011 21:33:39 GMT -5 EDM Entori said:

So .. I've been playing a new character, actually two recently. one thing I've had a habit of noticing, is how often parties want to rest, especially in what I find to be rather odd and strange places..

someone dies, they want to rest, the spells ware off they want to rest. Some one farts... they want to rest (ok joke).

one comment per player, thought out deliberations on this matter. good clean chat, no one starting a flame war.

*passes conch* GO!

Well, see that "fart" part is a good damn excuse NOT to rest and continue the exploration... who the heck would want to rest near such character! Yuk. =)

I can only speak for myself and from what I see when playing with some peeps, in my case my elf rarely rests during some exploration. Unless it is extremely necessary and there is no other way for her to get into a luxurious room, she doesn't rest. To be fair, she is lazy... when in a party she buffs peeps and all, has loads of attack spells but she prefers to use her bow to her spells; and only uses said spells when the rest of the group can't deal with what they are fighting.

Hey if she can have others doing the fight, why should she get tired? She has other things to worry about, like how good her hair is and nails... anyways...

I remember this occasion, think it was last year, when she was with two other characters. We had no idea where we were (we were exploring the area), after a few hours, and several fights the characters had to take a break and regain their breath back (that's my excuse for rest while in the "Wild", since she is an elf), she had no teleportation (even if she had spells which could be used for that, with the feats she has, but the game mechanics don't allow it), so they searched for some secure spot to rest and made a camp... we started to chat, rp, buffs vanished meanwhile... and when we finally decided to press the key "rest" the camp was gone!! And no one else had more supplies... We had to drag our butts in this unknown territory and very very slowly managed to get to a road... that lead us to some settlement and to a Inn.

Was a very fun experience, IC we were cautious and scared like hell - hey no one likes to go to the Fugue - and OOC we were laughing like mad.

Being out of spells and not being able to rest also reminds me of this time when me and a bunch of guys and a gal ( ) were taking part of this awesome event... the elf couldn't do anything, literally anything... so I started to rp her tossing arrows at the creatures since she couldn't hit them with her bow... man that was fun... good old days!

But back to topic, I think that characters should rest when they have IC reasons for such, after having some tiresome fight that took lots of time, or after walking for hours... in RL we rest when we are tired or sleepy... or in some cases if we are just lazy. I know this is a Fantasy game, and that game mechanics "force" characters to rest more often then normal, but try to get the best of it while doing it.

As for low level characters, those who can visit the same place once a day (unlike the rest who have the 7 days rules - unless it changed), they can also have fun, but lets be honest... the spellcasters (arcane or divine) need to rest several times a day if they want to explore the starting area and get deep in the module. I know I had to rest alot with my sorcerer, I would use her spells, had my familiar - mephit to help with the exploration, that way would take longer to have the need to regain spells again.

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I know I haven't add anything new to the "debate" but felt like sharing my own experience and thoughts about the subject.

[quelunia]

Here, here Shamoke. I totally one hundred percent agree. You see sorcerers, they seek power. My character has done what DM Hawk has said. He uses his spells sparingly. Of course my sorcerer isnt like Shamokes, I dont have a single offensive spell at the moment. I "buff" myself then join the fighters on the front line. My character as I said in this post before, he will "buff" those he thinks are useful, or those he has travelled with many times before. When my character uses his limit( by limit I mean I have 1 haste and 1 imp invis left) of spells, He is saying we need to find a defensible position or think about retreating. If everyone insists on going forward, my sorcerer will aid so long as his spells hold then he goes invis. Thats about the sum of how I RP needing to rest.

An example of this is when I have gone with a large group to the underdark, I gave a few buffs out.... the rest were mine, I didnt know when or if I would be able to rest, and were a fighter has armor and shield to defend themselves and a sturdy blade in hand, my character has only his spells and a blade that he enchants. So when my spells are gone, my character knows its time to get going, he saves enough spells to cover his retreat, adn if no one listens to his warnings, when things go wrong...I have the option to run, and try to mount a rescue. Though my character dies about as often as the warriors since he stands toe to toe with the enemy. I dont think resting should happen at every known safe place, if you do that alot of the time you have to wait, but going forward also leaves you short before the next safe place. This is fun and it gives my guy the chance to show his true colors, I am going to save myself.

[Dobian]

My sorceress used to be in the habit of just blasting away, and of course she would run out of gas fast. Over time of learning how to properly run a mage, through trial and error and also getting some great tips from one non-mage player in particular on how to run my mage in an almost ranger-like fashion, she now lasts and lasts. Using her buffed-up summons as a tank and taking advantage of the wonders of web along with a bow or a short bow on horseback, she only needs to use her offensive spells sparingly. In parties, I have learned to trust the front line and take the itchy rigger finger off my mouse, letting them handle things unless it gets rough and they need an Isaac's, or a WotB in dire situations to help them out.