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Post by FORSETIS on Feb 6, 2011 10:55:58 GMT -5
I made a comment IC about protein. And now Im wondering if its something that is known to D&D? And if it is, who would know about it? Would it be common knowledge, or something only well educated people would know?
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Post by brian333 on Feb 6, 2011 14:49:53 GMT -5
This is the best information I can find on the discovery of the existence of proteins. Viruses were a 19th Century discovery, and so was the existence of bacteria.
We of the so-called 'modern' age forget how recent was the discovery or invention of so many of the things we take for granted. Imagine a time when doctors didn't wash their hands before operating! Louis Pasteur's discovery of bacteria as an agent in disease was not fully accepted by professional doctors and scientists even in his lifetime. Sterile latex gloves were an invention that came out of WW2!
With magical enhancement a medieval society could conceivably discover almost anything, but I prefer a more medieval scientific basis for my roleplay.
So, for example, the complex chemical reactions that produce proteins might instead be ascribed to the interaction of the element of fire upon the confluence of water and earth, thus producing conditions favorable to the earth elements present in the whites of the egg, causing it to congeal more rapidly than the yolk, which posesses less of earth and more of water element when frying an egg.
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Post by The Supreme Watcher on Feb 6, 2011 15:13:32 GMT -5
I would say that 'protein' wouldn't be known; it just isn't feasible that, even with magic, the people could inspect things on the molecular level.
That said, people would definitely understand that heartier foods - meat, potatoes, oatmeal - lend themselves to a character's vitality and energy. People will likely have realized that bread alone can't sustain burgeoning muscles, even though it can sustain life. Any comment along the lines of 'make sure you eat your protein,' could be reskinned for the setting as 'make sure you eat your meat and potatoes!'
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Post by Not so surly dwarf on Feb 6, 2011 15:16:42 GMT -5
Yeah,especially when you consider that only until the recent past did WE understand the value of proteins, starchs, carbs, etc.
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Post by fred on Feb 6, 2011 16:23:32 GMT -5
Yeah,especially when you consider that only until the recent past did WE understand the value of proteins, starchs, carbs, etc. Well, how recently did we learn to summon creatures from the elemental plane of fire? I don't think the timeline of scientific discoveries in our universe is at all relevant. Moreover, it would be quite reasonable to assume that in the FR universe there are no proteins, it's all made up of elements, as Brian suggests; except that instead of suggesting that FR science hasn't "advanced" enough to figure out that it's actually all about molecules, I would posit that in FR, there are no molecules to see. Despite the superficial similarities to our universe, their universe clearly operates quite differently. There's no reason to believe that the basic building blocks need to be the same. |
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Post by Munroe on Feb 6, 2011 16:30:57 GMT -5
Someone made a reference to "cells" in-game while I was present recently. Kind of rubbed me wrong.
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ritefoot
Old School
Daisy Elf Bard
Posts: 494
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Post by ritefoot on Feb 6, 2011 18:07:00 GMT -5
OK it is off the top of my head but....
They had a small understanding of the effect of Meat in respect to carbs. That is not Protein.
Thing about D&D is that is it not RL or even earth history. There is gun powder. So that puts in about the 1400s.
At that time in England the rich considered it a mark that they had made it to never eat ANYTHING not meat. They got Gout. They were told to drop the meat.
Gladiators means sword man and all that but they were known to only eat barley. They needed to be fat over strong. A little blubber might mean life or death.
The cell and all these terms we use are new. But there were things before.
One Arab mathematician in the dark ages wrote that should you cut a thing and remove half and then cut again and again you would get to a single very small item and should you cut it again a great amount of energy would be let go and there would be nothing left.
There were lenses in the 1400s. Galileo was only so well known for his as he made one to x30 power. Could they see small? I am not sure. Most were looking up.
They were not dolts. This said they were often VERY wrong. Not just wrong but locked in wrong.
What do we know though? Sense 2000 Pluto is no longer a Planet and there is another one past it also not called a planet. (That was decided by a committee.)
The big bang is not the start of the universe and we have dropped string theory and moves on to membranes.
Lots on things in our present day science are blocked by people too frightened to change as it will mean loss of funding. In science your boss ‘wrote the book’ and pays your bills with the money he got from ‘the book’ or due to his place he now has due to ‘the book’. Wanna dump on ‘the book’?
It is not over yet.
Rite.
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Post by ancientempathy on Feb 6, 2011 18:08:01 GMT -5
Yeah,especially when you consider that only until the recent past did WE understand the value of proteins, starchs, carbs, etc. Well, how recently did we learn to summon creatures from the elemental plane of fire? I don't think the timeline of scientific advances in our universe is at all relevant. Moreover, it would be quite reasonable to assume that in the FR universe there are no proteins, it's all made up of elements, as Brian suggests; except that instead of suggesting that FR science hasn't "advanced" enough to figure out that it's actually all about molecules, I would posit that in FR, there are no molecules to see. Despite the superficial similarities to our universe, their universe clearly operates quite differently. There's no reason to believe that the basic building blocks need to be the same. *stamps approval* Enjoy the game, meanwhile, kiddies ;D |
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Post by Hellwalker on Feb 6, 2011 19:58:48 GMT -5
What do we know though? The big bang is not the start of the universe Wait, what? When was this proven wrong and which evidence is it based on? And more importantly, is there a better theory out there to replace it? Links please. |
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Post by Charon's Claw on Feb 6, 2011 20:55:41 GMT -5
Let's please not discuss the big bang here... please?  *points to topic* |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2011 23:09:21 GMT -5
Let's please not discuss the big bang here... please? *points to topic* Amen. That was the mother of all thread hijackings! |
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Post by Hellwalker on Feb 7, 2011 11:25:23 GMT -5
Let's please not discuss the big bang here... please? *points to topic* Amen. That was the mother of all thread hijackings! My bad.  |
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ritefoot
Old School
Daisy Elf Bard
Posts: 494
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Post by ritefoot on Feb 7, 2011 15:08:44 GMT -5
LOL I did not mean to over do it. Just pointing out that things were known to a point but they sure did not use words like Protein. That and I love to bate Brian. If you want those links PM me.
Rite.
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Post by brian333 on Feb 7, 2011 18:55:06 GMT -5
While I explained in terms of elemental forces, they are not the only means of expaining the structure of the universe in a medieval setting. Demons and devils are very real to the medieval mind, and the planes from which they come have a very real impact on the lives on the material planes. Celestials and devas and the planes from whence they come are also potential sources of raw materials.
In this example, the raw materials of the Positive and Negative planes interact to create the building blocks of life, and as the negative overwhelms the positive the being withers and dies, while revitalization through positive energy healing spells can delay the onset of negative material's effects. In this case, a woman infused with the positive materials contained within ejaculate becomes pregnant, and it is well known that women who have a satisfying marriage are happier, healthier, and live longer than the unmarried, and thus positive-material-deficient woman. This also explains the longer lifespan of the woman, whose mate expends the positive material that sustains her.
I would like to think that there are many such possibilities, and some combination of a multitude of them is the 'real' answer. I have no problem with a player roleplaying as he likes, and if he uses modern knowledge, we can simply assume that, rather than a true medieval society, FR may be a 'modern' society which has evolved with magic rather than science as the driving force.
Besides, Brane Theory is a joke! Imagine the entire existence of the universe and all the matter and energy it contains being the result of the momentary interaction of two or more hyper-spatial membranes fluctuating against each other! By that theory we're no more than a spark which will fade out in another fifteen billion years or so!
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Post by maeglhachel on Feb 9, 2011 18:18:12 GMT -5
My 2 cents?
RL timeline may not matter since we have not discovered elemental planes and all, yet:
I very much doubt elemental planes would be a thing commonly discussed in the streets.
I generally feel FRPG worlds are faaaar too secure in what people know. I'm still always looking for the _feel_ of a medieval setting. So, even if the sourcebooks say the city XYZ has this many inhabitants, or there are this many elemental planes arranged like that ... how many people in the FR world actually do know? Maybe just a few in some remote monastery or some cernter of learning. And would they feel sure they _know_? ... or would it be considered one of various theories? Or in the context of religion, a faith?
In that sense, I try to stay away from mentioning DNA when it comes to cross-breeding **rolls eyes* ... and protein ... well, it _sounds_ out of place to me, personally ... I've previously gone as far as discussing how excessive eating of chocolate cake does bad things to your body, and how greens are good, though seriously that's modern day knowledge, too, maybe not at all applicable to a medieval setting, but the effects of chocolate cake diet are, at least, very tangible ... errr ... yes ... in every sense ...
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Post by ancientempathy on Feb 9, 2011 18:49:52 GMT -5
Let’s begin computing the fundamental stream of conscious amongst Faerunian inhabitants, to quantify, without universal argument, as to how we should cognitively process. Go! Really though...is this something grossly deturrent to having fun in one's roleplay? I'm not commenting on any specific-person's post either, merely posing this question in a general sense. Unless we get the DM's to sit down and investigate words that should or should not be used...I advise people to take terms, that they may find 'funny', with a grain of salt, and enjoy the game as best they can. If someone find's a word too unrealistic for the setting and really desires to vent anger - go watch Barney. Viagra, Genetics, Contraception, Awesomesauce...whatever, you name - just accept the word or pretend that PC just spoke to you in a foreign language. There's bigger fish to fret over. Meanwhile remember that a server rule does exist on using appropriate term's for the setting. If you don't know what an appropriate word is, run it by a DM, or maybe don't beat your head open too much in fret. Avoid modern day slang as a general corner stone. Sorry if I sound a bit heated on this type of topic, but it's the beating of a dead horse  Use best judgement? By the way, the universe was created by rampaging chickens that had golden feathers and were otherwise known as ... Thanagarians! |
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epicspire
Proven Member
Its not whether you win or lose; it's where you play the game -FRC for life.
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Post by epicspire on Feb 22, 2011 16:36:10 GMT -5
isn't there a god of disease,.. if so would her teachings mention something of the sort like bacteria or virus,.. or how exactly a rat infects people so that the followers can go out and spread that disease,..
also Deities of Knowledge could bestow upon their clergy certain useful information.
although these informations would not be common, they could be researched or discovered.
as mentioned,.. the word "protean" or other terms may not be widely used, but the idea could hold merit among some people - hence washing your hands even if you dont see dirt or visiting the bath house even if you dont look dirty.
Spells that allow people to increase their intelligence and other mental attributes as well as wear gear that do so, who already possess high attributes could easily think of things that we did not think of sooner than we did. If a mage that worships Oghma starts the game at 18 int, and wears int gear and maximizes the fox's cunning spell has a 30 int... how high of an intelligence do you think einstien had, or Galilao,...?
once he discovers such information he could teach it to others who teach it to others,..
in my opinion it would be perfectly okay for certain individuals to RP knowing of proteans and stuff, but also good RP for some people to not know what was being talked about or even just out right not belieing in that non sense..
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ritefoot
Old School
Daisy Elf Bard
Posts: 494
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Post by ritefoot on Feb 22, 2011 17:01:04 GMT -5
Well I have to agree with Bri about women!!! (LOVE Baiting Brian) it sorta links into the well known fact that married men live longer but want to die more. Must be all that positive energy they are giving out. (Man am I in trouble)
KC is right and most might drop the thread but well there is another thing in play here.
FR is not earth and does not have the same physical laws.
THERE BE DRAGONS!!!!
You don't need faith YOU CAN SEE YOUR GOD!
When the priests talk about Miasma causing sickness it is not Bacteria, they are right! It is evil spirits and demons!
You look through a Microscope you will not see Bacteria.
Anyway.
Night and GO TEAM JUSTI!!!!
Rite.
PS Almost forgot. Long ago it was considered unhealthy to bath by the well educated. The Romans and Greeks did it to hang out.
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Post by catmage on Feb 22, 2011 21:18:47 GMT -5
Bacteria exist. Fiendish Codex 1 makes this known. So does the Book of Vile Darkness, which has the cuddly Cancer Mage, a class that can "befriend" illnesses, and eventually become living disease.
While a mage can reach thirty intelligence at level one in theory, he's probably not looking into the great mysteries of physics or anatomy, because he's a mage, not a scientist. Even "engineers" and the like use magic as much as science, because they have magic. There's little reason to learn the mysteries of steam power when you can have an air spirit bound to your device to make it go, and when there's no cultural push for invention, and all the minds that would go out and invent generally become priests or more likely wizards. Having intelligence isn't the same as applying it.
In FR, Lantan is the most technologically advanced country, and most of that tech is pre-Industrial Revolution, things for caravans, and things like gun powder. The gods of knowledge -could- share information with mortals about the world, but part of their power comes from mortals learning these things for themselves, and many of them place restrictions on themselves and their subordinates about spreading knowledge faster than mortals are truely ready for it.
People who go too deep into things like chemistry and things like brain science usually bug me, and I generally ignore those parts of the conversation, treat them like babbling loons, or just quit the conversation.
Also, I've always understood the no bathing thing wasn't that they thought it was unhealthy as much as in the middle ages they came to feel it was lower class. One bathed because they got stinky working in the field. If you were rich and powerful, you didn't exert, so you didn't bathe to show off luxury. Same reason why being pudgy and pale was sexy, and muscles and a tan were gross.
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Post by goldstar on Feb 23, 2011 0:53:29 GMT -5
By brain science, do you mean the psychological parts of it, or the anatomical parts? Frontal lobe, cortex, etc.
I would think that Illithid/Mind Flayers may have mastered the charting of the brain by now, actually. It's my humble opinion that it ought to not be a stretch to think that illithid scientists may even know -more- about the psychology function of people, and the brain, than even modern day scientists.
I mean...they eat brains!
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Spells
Proven Member
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Post by Spells on Feb 23, 2011 1:28:20 GMT -5
I would agree with this possibly being true for Illithids but I think this is more a discussion about the common run of the will adventure, at which knowledge from a Illithid would be highly rare.. if not impossible to get. (don't they store 99% of there knowledge in the elder brain which is very difficult to learn from as a non-illithid?)
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Post by goldstar on Feb 23, 2011 1:55:40 GMT -5
Well I suppose that is true...Even if the knowledge did exist, it wouldn't be available for PC's ... unless they marry an illithid! There went my illithid PC concept, all the same.  >.> |
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Use best judgement?
>.>