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Post by tarus on Jan 24, 2012 2:36:54 GMT -5
I don't understand how the shifter can turn into a mimic without getting their entire range of shapeshifting abilities to add to their own as that is really what a mimic is. By turning into a mimic they would gain the ability to shift as a mimic does. I think it'd be more accurate to say that the shifter mimics a particular form that the mimic mimics.
"Hey! That thing turned into a chest and fooled us! I bet I could do that if I tried!"
Ya know? Rather than one shapeshifter turning into another shapeshifter and shifting into another form as a shapeshifter being another shapeshifter.
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Post by urghargh on Jan 24, 2012 5:21:27 GMT -5
I don't understand how the shifter can turn into a mimic without getting their entire range of shapeshifting abilities to add to their own as that is really what a mimic is. No mimics in their orignal shapes exist in the toolset. It isn't mechanically possible - we looked into that. Which is what all Shifters on this server currently do but so far no one has given me or them a good reason not to roleplay a sensible backstory to explain how they gained insight into Mimics and their true forms. I am not as a character roleplaying turning into a Mimic's true form(none of the current Shifters have roleplayed doing so, they get the limitation), I am a Mimic disguised. To quote my uncle "I may not cook but that doesn't mean I can't. I choose not to because I turn into a monster in the kitchen". Think of it as "Mimic Lite". |
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Post by Hellwalker on Jan 24, 2012 6:54:03 GMT -5
I don't understand how the shifter can turn into a mimic without getting their entire range of shapeshifting abilities to add to their own as that is really what a mimic is. By turning into a mimic they would gain the ability to shift as a mimic does. I think it'd be more accurate to say that the shifter mimics a particular form that the mimic mimics. "Hey! That thing turned into a chest and fooled us! I bet I could do that if I tried!" Ya know? Rather than one shapeshifter turning into another shapeshifter and shifting into another form as a shapeshifter being another shapeshifter. It's like a dream within a dream! |
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Post by urghargh on Jan 24, 2012 7:45:52 GMT -5
I don't understand how the shifter can turn into a mimic without getting their entire range of shapeshifting abilities to add to their own as that is really what a mimic is. By turning into a mimic they would gain the ability to shift as a mimic does. I think it'd be more accurate to say that the shifter mimics a particular form that the mimic mimics. "Hey! That thing turned into a chest and fooled us! I bet I could do that if I tried!" Ya know? Rather than one shapeshifter turning into another shapeshifter and shifting into another form as a shapeshifter being another shapeshifter. It's like a dream within a dream! Quite! I think if Fynn were real she would laugh at this discussion. Obviously outside limitations exist on what we can and can't do with Shifters so I have to come up with IC explanations as to why I can't do certain things, for the most part Fynn's "OOC mechanic-affected limits" come from her own mind. "I'm not doing that because, I don't believe a) it's useful b) I can stand being *that* or c)...and so on and so on. Just like a human being, therein lies the irony as you'd think a creature who could be anything would move beyond that. |
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Post by 828stingstingneo on Jan 24, 2012 8:38:22 GMT -5
After watching this discussion for a while I have decided to personally believe that a mimic's true form is a shifter. They are just retired adventurers who now let adventure come to them by pretending to be treasure.  |
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Post by urghargh on Jan 24, 2012 8:59:52 GMT -5
After watching this discussion for a while I have decided to personally believe that a mimic's true form is a shifter. They are just retired adventurers who now let adventure come to them by pretending to be treasure. Good one ;D (Fynn's retirement plan is to perfect the world's first chocolate beer, and open a brewery so she can combine her two greatest loves) |
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Post by DM Smass (Retired) on Jan 24, 2012 9:54:28 GMT -5
After watching this discussion for a while I have decided to personally believe that a mimic's true form is a shifter. They are just retired adventurers who now let adventure come to them by pretending to be treasure. Good one ;D (Fynn's retirement plan is to perfect the world's first chocolate beer, and open a brewery so she can combine her two greatest loves) Jim Clark beat her to it. Sam Adams Chocolate Bock. Freakin' good stuff  |
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Post by DM Smass (Retired) on Jan 24, 2012 9:54:53 GMT -5
After watching this discussion for a while I have decided to personally believe that a mimic's true form is a shifter. They are just retired adventurers who now let adventure come to them by pretending to be treasure. Good one ;D (Fynn's retirement plan is to perfect the world's first chocolate beer, and open a brewery so she can combine her two greatest loves) Jim Clark beat her to it. Sam Adams Chocolate Bock. Freakin' good stuff |
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Post by urghargh on Jan 24, 2012 11:17:16 GMT -5
Good one ;D (Fynn's retirement plan is to perfect the world's first chocolate beer, and open a brewery so she can combine her two greatest loves) Jim Clark beat her to it. Sam Adams Chocolate Bock. Freakin' good stuff Ooo...I like Youngs Chocolate Stout myself...but I digress, not this world Silly Smass! ;D |
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Post by 828stingstingneo on Jan 25, 2012 7:56:46 GMT -5
Eager to sample the new invention, Elvalith reaches for her chocolate beer, but horror sinks in as she sticks fast to it and realizes it's actually a mimic!
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Post by urghargh on Jan 25, 2012 13:00:45 GMT -5
Eager to sample the new invention, Elvalith reaches for her chocolate beer, but horror sinks in as she sticks fast to it and realizes it's actually a mimic! ;D ;D ;D I'm thinking about adding to this thread here: frc.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=prclore&thread=7995&page=1#87422. I know there's the information from Masters of the Wild there but it might be nice to expand that thread a bit. I may discuss this with the team about what they'd like to see there as a resource for future Shifters. |
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Post by Munroe on Jan 28, 2012 3:27:04 GMT -5
If that picture in the book belongs to he shifter class, it certainly killed the mood for me ever playing one ;P also as mentioned in the previous post, there are enought possibilities for a someone who wants to know the real form to obtain that kind of information. I think the picture in that book is more representative of what a shifter looks like when viewed with True Seeing? Or maybe mid-transformation. It looks like a person standing in a unicorn. |
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Post by Munroe on Jan 28, 2012 3:49:11 GMT -5
I don't understand how the shifter can turn into a mimic without getting their entire range of shapeshifting abilities to add to their own as that is really what a mimic is. By turning into a mimic they would gain the ability to shift as a mimic does. I think it'd be more accurate to say that the shifter mimics a particular form that the mimic mimics. Shifters are more powerful than mimics. Mimics mimic objects, they don't become them in any substantial way. They have a movement speed of 10 feet (2 squares). They have a sticky adhesive glue so stuff sticks to them. What the mimic form grants is the ability to assume the form of a mimic and the ability to have its adhesive skin. The form of a mimic would be anything a mimic can take the form of, which is actually much less than you seem to want it to be. As for the mimic's "true" form, I always think of them as amorphous creatures that can control their shape. So a mimic that looks like a chest has the true form of a chest. It's like a guy flexing. If he relaxes, his muscles sag. But if he's flexing, and you look at him with True Seeing, you see a guy flexing. If you look at a mimic in a shape, you see something that has that shape and color. You're actually seeing the mimic because the mimic is actually shaped like a chest or coffin or couch. The mimic's ability to change shape is not magical, it's an extraordinary (Ex) ability to take the shape, not to project an illusion of that shape. A mimic actually makes a disguise check vs an observer's Spot check to hide in its current shape. It's current shape IS its real shape though. No illusion at play. Monster Manual 3.5e, page 186: | Mimic Shape (Ex) A mimic can assume the general shape of any object that fills roughly 150 cubic feet (5 feet by 5 feet by 6 feet), such as a massive chest, a stout bed, or a wide door frame. The creature cannot substantially alter its size, though. A mimic's body is hard and has a rough texture, no matter what appearance it might present. Anyone who examines the mimic can detect the ruse with a successful Spot check opposed by the mimic's Disguise check. Of course, by this time it is generally far too late. |
So a mimic's true form at any given time is whatever form it's taking. Oh, yeah, the Pathfinder book Dungeon Denizens Revisited has an illustration of a young mimic before it has shifted. It looks like a pile of whitish goo on stubby legs with a mouth full of sharp teeth. That's only its birth form though, not its "true" form. Oh, I Google Image Searched it. Here's the picture:  paizo.com/image/content/PathfinderChronicles/PZO9210-Mimic.jpg |
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Post by tarus on Jan 28, 2012 7:41:56 GMT -5
awesome, thanks!
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Post by minion on Jan 31, 2012 0:58:14 GMT -5
What the mimic form grants is the ability to assume the form of a mimic and the ability to have its adhesive skin. The form of a mimic would be anything a mimic can take the form of... alright, so unless i'm missing something here, according the the strictest reading of the abilities of both the Shifter and the Mimic, a Shifter would "shift" into the form of a Mimic which is in turn taking the form of say... a treasure chest. so, technical result is: a humanoid turning into something that looks like a treasure chest but is, in fact, a tough-yet-sticky/slimy-surfaced cube intended to look like a treasure chest, but not actually function as one, right? i suspect i'm overthinking things here, but... i'm a bit bored and a bit loopy on a recent dose of Nyquil, and overthinking is one of the things i do for fun. |
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Post by Munroe on Jan 31, 2012 4:47:03 GMT -5
What the mimic form grants is the ability to assume the form of a mimic and the ability to have its adhesive skin. The form of a mimic would be anything a mimic can take the form of... alright, so unless i'm missing something here, according the the strictest reading of the abilities of both the Shifter and the Mimic, a Shifter would "shift" into the form of a Mimic which is in turn taking the form of say... a treasure chest. so, technical result is: a humanoid turning into something that looks like a treasure chest but is, in fact, a tough-yet-sticky/slimy-surfaced cube intended to look like a treasure chest, but not actually function as one, right? i suspect i'm overthinking things here, but... i'm a bit bored and a bit loopy on a recent dose of Nyquil, and overthinking is one of the things i do for fun. Well, more or less. A mimic could function as a chest if it wanted though, there's nothing to prevent it from having a hollow compartment inside. Mimic description says they sometimes take the form of large door frames, so I think one could make a cavity if it wanted. The part of the mimic that is solid would have to satisfy its volume requirements though. |
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Post by Savoie Faire on Jan 31, 2012 16:14:06 GMT -5
I have always imagined a mimic as a sort of living play-dough with the ability to color it's exterior sort of like a cuttlefish, but with higher resolution.
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Post by urghargh on Jan 31, 2012 17:08:39 GMT -5
alright, so unless i'm missing something here, according the the strictest reading of the abilities of both the Shifter and the Mimic, a Shifter would "shift" into the form of a Mimic which is in turn taking the form of say... a treasure chest. so, technical result is: a humanoid turning into something that looks like a treasure chest but is, in fact, a tough-yet-sticky/slimy-surfaced cube intended to look like a treasure chest, but not actually function as one, right? i suspect i'm overthinking things here, but... i'm a bit bored and a bit loopy on a recent dose of Nyquil, and overthinking is one of the things i do for fun. Well, more or less. A mimic could function as a chest if it wanted though, there's nothing to prevent it from having a hollow compartment inside. Mimic description says they sometimes take the form of large door frames, so I think one could make a cavity if it wanted. The part of the mimic that is solid would have to satisfy its volume requirements though. Often RP Fynn rearranging her belongings inside herself while she is a a mimic-chest. She may not actually have extra storage space but it's fun to roleplay it. |
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Post by dazza555 on Sept 16, 2012 5:38:42 GMT -5
Just popping in to say that Shifter is a pnp class, from the sourcebook Masters of the Wild. If I can find the damn book, I'd post information on the class, but alas, seems not to be currently. When I was researching Shifter I found this link here: www.scribd.com/doc/32718176/Masters-of-the-Wild(page 69) A truly fantastic read... Now I want to play a Geomancer... Finally! A reason to justify a Wizard/Cleric with plant domain... and maybe animal domain... would probably take fighter too... or barbarian... eventually... |
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