How to RP the Shifter Class

[Rook]

Because the Shifter class is now a permitted PrC I thought it would be good to start a thread on how to RP leading up to this class and as a Shifter. I'm assuming there's more than one right way to do it. Be nice and discuss.

[Deleted]

Previously the way I played a shifter was "mercurial".
(mercurial is defined as changeable; volatile; fickle; flighty; erratic; animated; lively; sprightly; quick-witted: a mercurial nature.)

This character hardly recognized their own self, moving between shapes to ones that fitted what they felt they needed at the time. Shapes would influence their general personal, habits, but however didn't change their core attitude, just how they displayed it. If someone asked them what they truly were, they replied "I am Myself".

One of the guides that I read said "You are a Shifter. Whatever dim memory of your Druid roots you retain is only what you consider the abilities of your first Shape (the one you happened to be born in)."

[urghargh]

Shifter
(Source: Masters of the Wild)

The shifter has no form that she calls her own. Instead, she clothes herself in whatever shape is most expedient at the time. While others base their identities largely on their external forms, the shifter actually comes closer to her true self through all her transformations. Of necessity, her sense of self is based not on her outward form, but on her soul, which is truly the only constant about her. It is the inner strength of that soul that enables her to take on any shape and remain herself within.

At first, the shifter can risk only humanoid forms and familiar animal shapes. As she grows more comfortable with her own true shapelessness, however, she can assume more outlandish forms. Eventually, she knows herself so well that she feels just as comfortable in the shape of a completely different creature type as she does in her own. At that point, her past - even her race - becomes irrelevant, since external form no longer matters to her.

(the rest of the article is about shapes and since we have some custom shapes I will dispense with that so as not to cause confusion)

[dajuke]

I've always played the shifter in a rather different style based on the requirements of increasing wisdom for every shape. My thought is that greater wisdom leads to greater willpower (as shown in the player sheet as well with will saves). This has lead me to play shifters as some of the most controlled focused characters of any I have done. I think a shifter must have absolute knowledge of themself and control of their thoughts and actions in order to maintain their own identity no matter the shape they take. They might not necessarily be serious, but they must be able to evince complete focus when required.

Although, I am currently straying from that with my current shifter as he lies more along the mercurial spectrum. Just throwing out my first thoughts to add to the discussion.


And come on people, a brand new class, and there are FOUR posts in it? It's the SHIFTER!!!!!

[urghargh]

Speaking as a current shifter(I think I may be the only one at the moment as Fynn's co-shifter friend seems to be taking a break from FRC), I'd have to say my character doesn't have a favourite form, she generally uses what is the most suitable form at the time. She will often mutter to herself before entering a situation about what shape might suit "this" - it's part of her rp.

This quote by Albert Einstein I think sums up Fynn: "I have no special talent, I am only passionately curious".

[828stingstingneo]

Were I to play a shifter, I might try to find ways to quietly study beings born in other forms (even the dangerous ones) to learn to be more one with the shape. Perhaps this would be a way of acquiring the wisdom dajuke mentioned.

[urghargh]

Aug 4, 2011 7:45:20 GMT -5 828stingstingneo said:

Were I to play a shifter, I might try to find ways to quietly study beings born in other forms (even the dangerous ones) to learn to be more one with the shape. Perhaps this would be a way of acquiring the wisdom dajuke mentioned.

That's actually been part of my RP since level 1. It's not easy to actually access some of the creatures that are available as shifter forms in the mod, it's been a real struggle to find creative ways of roleplaying learning but it can be done.

I think we could benefit by adding more of these creatures to the mod. I was lucky in that some of the lower shapes were able to be studied but Kal removed some and added others when his changes were going on so maybe that is something to address.

[kaltorac]

Aug 4, 2011 8:20:59 GMT -5 @urghargh said:

Aug 4, 2011 7:45:20 GMT -5 828stingstingneo said:

Were I to play a shifter, I might try to find ways to quietly study beings born in other forms (even the dangerous ones) to learn to be more one with the shape. Perhaps this would be a way of acquiring the wisdom dajuke mentioned.

That's actually been part of my RP since level 1. It's not easy to actually access some of the creatures that are available as shifter forms in the mod, it's been a real struggle to find creative ways of roleplaying learning but it can be done.

I think we could benefit by adding more of these creatures to the mod. I was lucky in that some of the lower shapes were able to be studied but Kal removed some and added others when his changes were going on so maybe that is something to address.

- I'll see about changing the gargoyle form for shifters to use the appearance the updated gargoyles now use.

- Specifically because "Fynn" (the only shifter I've had a chance to observe so far) uses the harpy form from time to time, there are now harpies in a recently updated area.

If someone can make a list for me of what forms are gained and at what level for shifters, it'd help to know which still need added as NPCs here. At what level will help dictate scaling and where they go. (IE, ideally, the creatures would be found/spawn at a few levels below where the ability is gained)

[urghargh]

Aug 4, 2011 11:53:34 GMT -5 @kaltorac said:

Aug 4, 2011 8:20:59 GMT -5 @urghargh said:

That's actually been part of my RP since level 1. It's not easy to actually access some of the creatures that are available as shifter forms in the mod, it's been a real struggle to find creative ways of roleplaying learning but it can be done.

I think we could benefit by adding more of these creatures to the mod. I was lucky in that some of the lower shapes were able to be studied but Kal removed some and added others when his changes were going on so maybe that is something to address.

- I'll see about changing the gargoyle form for shifters to use the appearance the updated gargoyles now use.

- Specifically because "Fynn" (the only shifter I've had a chance to observe so far) uses the harpy form from time to time, there are now harpies in a recently updated area.

If someone can make a list for me of what forms are gained and at what level for shifters, it'd help to know which still need added as NPCs here. At what level will help dictate scaling and where they go. (IE, ideally, the creatures would be found/spawn at a few levels below where the ability is gained)

I'll help with that.

[dajuke]

Hey Kael,

Handily enough, a list is already made. It's stickied in General Discussion under "Shifter Class". Rook details which shapes occur at each shifter level. The levels shapes are received are unchanged from base requirements, turning epic at the appropriate stages. If she hasn't done so already, this might hopefully save Urgh a bit of typing.

[zDark Shadowz]

I always believe a shifter will be somewhat like a true-neutral or chaotic neutral entity at heart, even if they follow a lawful or good cause.

They may also find customs developed by some creatures as strange, such as humans always wanting to touch. (hugs, handshakes etc).

Also (kinda strangely ) they wouldn't mind mingling with other races, on the account they can change into any race they wanted. They may not deem to see the problems associated with it, depending on their own viewpoints coupled with an exceedingly high wisdom compared to the average joe. A dragon wants to lay some eggs but due to a lack of drakes in the region... a shifter may make a great (and perhaps somewhat willing) substitute for a father...

[urghargh]

Aug 15, 2011 22:14:29 GMT -5 zDark Shadowz said:

I always believe a shifter will be somewhat like a true-neutral or chaotic neutral entity at heart, even if they follow a lawful or good cause.

They may also find customs developed by some creatures as strange, such as humans always wanting to touch. (hugs, handshakes etc).

Also (kinda strangely ) they wouldn't mind mingling with other races, on the account they can change into any race they wanted. They may not deem to see the problems associated with it, depending on their own viewpoints coupled with an exceedingly high wisdom compared to the average joe. A dragon wants to lay some eggs but due to a lack of drakes in the region... a shifter may make a great (and perhaps somewhat willing) substitute for a father...

My shifter was raised as ..well mostly human...and did not develop her abilities fully until the age of 23 so in her case, she is quite used to human customs as that is what she was born as. She's a tactile person who enjoys textures - another shifter who has just developed has a bracelet of animal deitrus like feathers and scales he's collected to help him focus.

I think it's down to how you want to play it. You can have, as in Kavrala's case, a very wild creature who is untrusting of humanoids or as in Fynn's case, a slightly uncouth but very wise druid - - who is at ease with any creature, humanoid or not.

A shifter is a creature who eventually may abandon their original form and just spend their lives in the shapes they find the most comfortable, I don't think that mean abandoning their original values, the mental part of a shifter is the most interesting aspect of the class apart from the shape - they are a brain in a variety of bodies and must have a heightened sense of self.

Just my thoughts, anyway.

[zDark Shadowz]

I suppose thats why to be a Shifter you need Alertness and Iron Will, otherwise the sense of having ultimate freedom, the ability to go where you want in whatever form you choose would slowly corrupt you until you were just another spirit of nature.

[tarus]

Does the greater wildshape 3 really turn the shifter into a treasure chest?

[urghargh]

It is not a treasure chest, it is a Mimic masquerading as a treasure chest.

[tarus]

Yes, I understand the premise of a mimic, but what I'm wondering is does the druid assume the shape of a treasure chest or is he assuming the form of a mimic.

Simply put... if the druid (shifter who changes shape to assume other forms) assumes the shape of a mimic (mysterious shape shifter that changes shape to assume other forms), does the druid actually know the true form of a mimic? I thought that was actually something that only the best and most legendary sages knew since no one ever sees a mimic in its true form.

So.... does the treasure chest have attacks? Can it move? Can it be used to hold more stuff for the party by having more strength for carrying? The possibilities are endless!

[urghargh]

Jan 20, 2012 20:02:09 GMT -5 @tarus said:

Yes, I understand the premise of a mimic, but what I'm wondering is does the druid assume the shape of a treasure chest or is he assuming the form of a mimic.

Both.

does the druid actually know the true form of a mimic?

I would assume so, but technically it's not possible for us to add it.

I thought that was actually something that only the best and most legendary sages knew since no one ever sees a mimic in its true form.

Well when I was five, I thought other countries were actually other planets. I guess we were both wrong.

So.... does the treasure chest have attacks? Can it move? Can it be used to hold more stuff for the party by having more strength for carrying?

Yes, it has one attack. It has been roleplayed to hold more stuff. A certain degree of trust in the player is involved to roleplay what is not mechanically possible.

[Munroe]

Because canon D&D/FR material concerning the mimic is, in my experience, somewhat lacking, I provided one of our shifters with information pertaining to mimic ecology that I had from Paizo materials (Pathfinder Chronicles: Dungeon Denizens Revisited).

While it is not canon, it does cover such things as the mimic life cycle, motivations, and behavioral characteristics to make a believable character of that race.

A few things mentioned:
-- Mimics that take the form of a material do not actually become the material, so while I mimic may look like a wooden chest, it still feels like it's covered in rough hide, but by the time potential prey touchs it, it's usually too late because of the mimic's adhesive that binds prey to it.
-- Mimics leave behind a personal musk as they move that other mimics find offensive, and mimics use it to mark their territory.
-- Mimic young are born/hatched in spatterspawn pits, which are basically nests of nutrient-rich mimic slime. The young feed on the slime until they're big enough to feed on each other.

Dungeon Denizens Revisited is a Paizo OGL 3.5e book. It contains 5 pages of ecology for the mimic, an a sixth page that is just a reprint of the 3.5e mimic stats (since Monster Manual 3.5e was already out of print when it was published).

Of course, as I said, it's not canon, but I'm not aware of any in-depth canon material on mimics and it works perfectly fine in lieu of no information at all.

[Spirit of a Phoenix]

That's really cool that pathfinder provided detailed information like that. Do they have detailed information written for all their monsters? Considering the lack of explanation of behaviors and characteristics for a great deal of monsters in the 3.5 monster manuals. I personally think it could be a great idea to use some of the pathfinder information for the monsters that shifters shift into, if the 3.5 general/FR monster information is lacking, and just as long as the pathfinder information does not contradict the 3.5 FR/general information. If this is done with use of common sense it could go a long way to providing more in depth RP for a shifter.

The Shifter class is difficult to decipher, considering it is not an official PnP class. A shifter's greater wild shape should be similar to a druid's wild shape, being that the druid class is the base for the shifter class. Shifters are just a specialized druid. Druid's can't turn into anything they do not know of.

"The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with. " - Player's Handbook 3.5, regarding a druid's wildshape ability.

That tells us that a druid/shifter does not have to be all knowing about the forms they take, they just need to have a basic understanding of that form. We are limited to our choice of wild shapes in nwn, so the reason a character is familiar with a shape is flexible.

Regarding Soulf's question about the mimic, personally I would say that no, a shifter does not know the true form of a mimic. The shifter is familiar with the concept of a mimic, how the mimic is a shapeshifter, but the shifter has not seen a mimic's true form. So the shifter would not even know what to shift into to be a mimic's true form. For all the shifter knows, a mimic does not even have a true form.

This is at least my own personal thoughts regarding druid/shifter shifting. If the DMs are ok with a shifter knowing the true form of a mimic, then you are more than free to RP that, obviously.

[urghargh]

I would disagree, there's nothing in the information Munroe provided to say that a humanoid can never see a mimic in its true form. Humanoids explore the territory Mimics inhabit.

The team try to provide me and the other two Shifters with encounters with some of our shapes where possible, in the case of the Mimic we've had to come up with sensible explanations as to how we learned the shape. If you want to know how - find out IC(if/when the blessed server returns).

I think you will agree it *is* a sensible explanation/story. Because we lack certain mechanical aspects in game we must step up to the mark as rpers...which is why Munroe has me nagging him for info

[arisnorman1]

im doing my best to find information for this as well lol until then i will keep out of it as this does not concern me in no way shape or form

[Shamoke]

Jan 22, 2012 17:24:42 GMT -5 arisnorman1 said:

in no way shape or form

Aha! I see what you did there! ;D

[arisnorman1]

lol you got me lol

[catmage]

Just popping in to say that Shifter is a pnp class, from the sourcebook Masters of the Wild. If I can find the damn book, I'd post information on the class, but alas, seems not to be currently.

[tarus]

www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/alumni/20060927a

Everything I know about Mimics.

[Munroe]

Jan 22, 2012 21:20:56 GMT -5 @tarus said:

www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/alumni/20060927a

Everything I know about Mimics.

Looking over that, unless I'm completely oblivious, that doesn't really say anything about mimic ecology, mindset or reproduction. It's talking more about the role of the mimic in the game and its history in the game.

Jan 22, 2012 3:47:09 GMT -5 Spirit of a Phoenix said:

That's really cool that pathfinder provided detailed information like that. Do they have detailed information written for all their monsters?

No, they don't have that kind of extensive detailed information on all their monsters. The Pathfinder Bestiaries (there are 3 now) are designed so that each monster gets either 1 page or 2 pages, with animals sometimes appearing two to a page.

So "wolf" and "dire wolf" are on the same page, and on another page "worg" and "worg, winter wolf" are sharing a page. (Pathfinder classifies winter wolf as a larger breed of worg, which I really like.) But most monsters are on one page alone, and temples for ghost and vampire are on two pages, and more complex templates such as skeleton and zombie, that have included variants, exceed the two page spread. The section on lycanthropes is 4 or 5 pages, inclusive of a page for wererat and a page for werewolf. (The first Bestiary only includes wererat and werewolf.)

Paizo sells supplemental books though. Among their sets are the "Revisited" series, where they look at 10 monsters in a theme and give them each 6 pages. The "Revisited" series is a sub-series within their Pathfinder Campaign Setting product line. Each Pathfinder Campaign Setting book (formerly the line was called Pathfinder Chronicles but was rebranded as Pathfinder Campaign Setting for clarity among product lines) is a 64 page book. (The 4 additional pages in the Revisited series are the title page, and typically three pages of ads.)

The books in the Revisited line come in two basic types:

• Books written for 3.5e include 5 pages of ecology of the monster and the original 3.5e stats for the monster.
  
• Books written for Pathfinder RPG include approximately 5 pages of ecology for the monster and a new variant of the monster, either with more hit dice, class levels, or sometimes a completely new version of the beast.

My absolute favorite book in the Revisited line is Classic Horrors Revisited.

The books in the Revisited line, listed in order of release:

• Classic Monsters Revisited (3.5e) - bugbear, gnoll, goblin, hobgoblin, kobold, lizardfolk, minotaur, ogre, orc, troll
  
• Dragons Revisited (3.5e) - all 10 types of metallic and chromatic dragons, info contradictory with Draconomicon/D&D 3.x
  
• Dungeon Denizens Revisited (3.5e) - bulette, cloaker, gelatinous cube, mimic, otyugh, owlbear, purple worm, roper, rust monster, shambling mound
  
• Classic Horrors Revisited (PRPG) - derro, flesh golem, gargoyle, ghost, ghoul, hag, mummy, vampire, walking dead (zombies & skeletons), werewolf
  
• Classic Treasures Revisited (PRPG) - bag of holding, cube of force, deck of many things, figurines of wondrous power, helm of brilliance, horn of Valhalla, sphere of annihilation, staff of the magi, vorpal sword, well of many worlds
  
• Misfit Monsters Redeemed (PRPG) - adherer, delver, dire corby, disenchanter, flail snail, flumph, lava child, lurking ray (executioner's hood, lurker above, & trapper combined race), tojanida, wolf-in-sheep's-clothing
  
• Undead Revisited (PRPG) - bodak, devourer, graveknight¹, lich, mohrg, nightshade, ravener², shadow, spectral dead (allips, banshees, wraiths, & spectres), wight
  
• Mythical Monsters Revisited (PRPG) - chimera, couatl, griffon, harpy, hydra, kraken, medusa, phoenix, sphinx, wendigo
  
• Giants Revisited (PRPG) - hill giants, stone giants, frost giants, fire giants, cloud giants, storm giants, rune giants³, marsh giants⁴, taiga giants⁵, cyclopes

¹ Graveknight is the Pathfinder equivalent of D&D's deathknight. Deathknight wasn't released under OGL. A graveknight is an undead warrior tied forever to his armor (rather than his weapon like a deathknight). Other than that distinction, basically a deathknight. Fun part? The armor is cursed so that anyone wearing it while the graveknight is regenerating instead transforms into the graveknight.
² Ravener is a new undead template for dragons in Pathfinder. Dracolich was never released under OGL but Pathfinder remedied that problem by making the requirements to become a lich less strict, so a dracolich can be accomplished with the standard lich template. Ravener is a different kind of undead dragon that feeds on souls, which then swirl around its body like a shield, effectively doubling its hitpoints.
³ Rune giants are new giants introduced in the first Pathfinder adventure path and reappearing in the Pathfinder Bestiary. They were bred by ancient wizard kings and they're bigger than most other giants. They have mind control powers over other giants.
⁴ Marsh giants are new in Bestiary 2. They dwell in swamps/marshes, and may have bred with eldritch horrors from the depths in the past. They're bigger and dumber than ogres.
⁵ Taiga giants are in the same hardcover Bestiary as rune giants. They're CN nomadic giants originally from eastern lands. They were crossbred with stone giants long ago to create the younger race of Rune Giants.

Note that Giants Revisited isn't due out until April of this year. I haven't received my Mythological Monsters Revisited yet, but the order is pending shipment.

So anyway, those are the only monsters with the 6 page spread right now. When brand-new monsters are introduced in the bestiaries of Pathfinder Adventure Path volumes, they do get a 2-page spread, but it's not nearly as much information.

[urghargh]

Jan 22, 2012 18:37:15 GMT -5 catmage said:

Just popping in to say that Shifter is a pnp class, from the sourcebook Masters of the Wild. If I can find the damn book, I'd post information on the class, but alas, seems not to be currently.

When I was researching Shifter I found this link here:

www.scribd.com/doc/32718176/Masters-of-the-Wild

(page 69)

[Thrym]

The shifter got a 3.5 update in Complete Adventurer. It was renamed to 'Master of Many Forms', but it's pretty much the same class and actually states it's an update of it in it's description.

As to the mimic, I ... can't see any abilities that prevents true sight from showing a mimic's true form, so any claims of 'No one knows how a mimic really looks like' are likely meant for low magic settings, not the FR. Not to mention there's nothing stopping a curious level 5 wizard from kindly suggesting to a mimic to show him his real form. While WotC didn't think things through enough to realize how easily a PC caster could find out the true form of a mimic and therefore didn't include a description, I'd personally say that ICly, it should likely be known to experts on abberations or shapechanger or such in a setting like the FR brimming with epic wizards.

[jensmann]

[quote author=urghargh board=roleplaydiscussion thread=14998 post=186746 time=1327344832

When I was researching Shifter I found this link here:

www.scribd.com/doc/32718176/Masters-of-the-Wild

(page 69)[/quote]

If that picture in the book belongs to he shifter class, it certainly killed the mood for me ever playing one ;P

also as mentioned in the previous post, there are enought possibilities for a someone who wants to know the real form to obtain that kind of information.

[Spirit of a Phoenix]

Jan 22, 2012 16:56:42 GMT -5 @urghargh said:

I would disagree, there's nothing in the information Munroe provided to say that a humanoid can never see a mimic in its true form. Humanoids explore the territory Mimics inhabit.

The team try to provide me and the other two Shifters with encounters with some of our shapes where possible, in the case of the Mimic we've had to come up with sensible explanations as to how we learned the shape. If you want to know how - find out IC(if/when the blessed server returns).

I think you will agree it *is* a sensible explanation/story. Because we lack certain mechanical aspects in game we must step up to the mark as rpers...which is why Munroe has me nagging him for info

I do agree, because of the lack of flexibility due to mechanics for nwn as to pnp, that RPers need to have the freedom to be flexible with their stories. My only worry is inconsistency, even if the story/explanation is sensible. That is one of the reasons I like the idea of defaulting to information in pathfinder, at least for the monsters that shifters can turn into, just as long as that information does not contradict 3.5 FR information firstly, then 3.5 general information secondly. I have not been able to find any information for the mimic regarding how their true appearance appears, so if shifters were to tell others what the true form of a mimic appears to be, it won't necessarily match the appearance another player makes up.

Other than that, I did take another look at mimics in the 3.5 monster manual. It says that a mimic's alignment is "usually neutral" and that they can speak Common. I was thinking of mimics as being black and white, but it does turn out that they can be diverse. So it could be said that the reason a mimic shares their true form to an individual could be diverse as well.

Jan 22, 2012 18:37:15 GMT -5 catmage said:

Just popping in to say that Shifter is a pnp class, from the sourcebook Masters of the Wild. If I can find the damn book, I'd post information on the class, but alas, seems not to be currently.

Ya, you're right. I was told by others that it was not a real class, and being that I myself had not seen the class in a book, I assumed it to be a class made specifically for nwn. I walked across the street to my local library and looked up the shifter class in the book you mentioned and I photocopied the information for my own personal use.

Jan 23, 2012 8:24:47 GMT -5 Munroe said:

No, they don't have that kind of extensive detailed information on all their monsters. The Pathfinder Bestiaries (there are 3 now) are designed so that each monster gets either 1 page or 2 pages, with animals sometimes appearing two to a page.

So "wolf" and "dire wolf" are on the same page, and on another page "worg" and "worg, winter wolf" are sharing a page. (Pathfinder classifies winter wolf as a larger breed of worg, which I really like.) But most monsters are on one page alone, and temples for ghost and vampire are on two pages, and more complex templates such as skeleton and zombie, that have included variants, exceed the two page spread. The section on lycanthropes is 4 or 5 pages, inclusive of a page for wererat and a page for werewolf. (The first Bestiary only includes wererat and werewolf.)

Paizo sells supplemental books though. Among their sets are the "Revisited" series, where they look at 10 monsters in a theme and give them each 6 pages. The "Revisited" series is a sub-series within their Pathfinder Campaign Setting product line. Each Pathfinder Campaign Setting book (formerly the line was called Pathfinder Chronicles but was rebranded as Pathfinder Campaign Setting for clarity among product lines) is a 64 page book. (The 4 additional pages in the Revisited series are the title page, and typically three pages of ads.)

No one I know plays pathfinder, but it sounds interesting. I'll probably take a look at a few books you mentioned at the library. The mythical monsters revisited, I will most likely check out, considering I really like most of the monsters you mentioned are in that book.