Help me scare you.

[Lokarn]

Hello, for this topic I would like to ask other players to aid me, and if this goes well possibly other player's and their PC's, to scare yours.

For the most part, evil PCs don't have many good stereotypical things they can do to scare other PCs.

Things like wearing colors of an obvious evil god, group, whatever just don't work. Wearing the provided spiky helms, and armors, do not work either. They are the only choice we have to use, however most players tend to see them as cheesy and have their PCs make fun of, rather than be weary/afraid of the offending PC.

My goal, is to have an honest discussion where some players in the community help the "evils" learn to use better methods of scare tactics and techniques to truly seem and feel scary.

I want you to offer some good advice about what others could try to use that wouldn't break server rules, and that you wouldn't laugh at.

This is an attempt to help us "evils" [ though certainly other alignments could make use of intimidation as well.] play a more believable character, so please don't add silly suggestions, you will just detract from what can be a help full thread for others.

[soulfien]

confrontation. Just plain confrontation. PVP. Want to be scary? How many points have you dumped into intimidate?

If it's only a couple, or none, then you're not scary.

If you want to prove you're powerful then attack my pc and prove it. Beat the tar out of him but don't kill him. Push him around, heal him, and beat him up again. I promise you that if you do that he won't be laughing or rolling his eyes!

He may go and get some stronger friends and come back, but he won't be denying your strength.

But if you simply wish to scare him, dump some points into intimidate and RP it out. I'll respect the roll.

[Spells]

Alright I'm terrible at being evil, so don't take to much into this, but scaring many players as evil in this seems to be a bit flawed from the start. Many of the characters are themselves adventures, which are not known for being overly bright/cowardly/however you want to put it, so even if the guy is scary and creepy, many are ether yes going to make fun of them, or attempt to challenge them if they feel so challenged.

Now this isn't to say all of them. Some characters like Elrean, are only brave when they feel they have to be, others like Layie (whom I can't speak for as she isn't my character) would likely be scared of a scary looking bouncy ball even if Lysus and Elrean both told her it was the greatest gift there was. Others whom have strong drives toward something would likely use that rather than be afraid, (again not my character can't tell you for sure they would) like Desmond, whom seems to be attracted to anything with 0-6 legs, mostly female, and still mostly alive (again from what I have seen of the character).

Now this isn't always such I don't think, when a character went crazy two days ago out in the middle of GG Wyn, somebody with a bow (sorry didn't see the name), and Elrean were the only ones who stayed to fight (that I seen), but everyone else went running away terrified of the fact the guy just laid down a implosion in the middle of another group.

Maybe this is part due to the way everyone tends to design there characters, maybe it is simply because most players tend to make adventures (I think there are a few commoners out there, but not many, most seem to get bored with it when they try it due to lack of things to do, kinda hard to talk to the all powerful sorc when all you have in common is your both made of flesh and you sometimes wish they would buy your tomatoes.

On another note, somebody brought up the intimidate skill. To me the personality skills have always been a bit of a strange. On one side, yes it is a skill and it gives you the ability to say you are this or that or ect, but it also says that somebody that doesn't have the skill points to use for that, or doesn't have that class can't have that type of a personality (this coming from someone who has wizard as a favored class, thus almost always skill points to burn). So far I have always treated it as if in rp if they can convince me of that they can do it, and rarely do i ask for a role to see something given they can make it appear as they wish (for instance characterA gives me reason characterB should do something, i will let it pass. That said I know there are many here who do not share this so I still usually take some points into the skill fields, but it is simply a odd way to handle it.

Looking up at this, I am going to say sorry for making it this long, what happens when one goes to type of a explanation and is called away a few times while typing it.

[dakari]

Start with speaking to someone you are afraid of. Myself Lucius was the most intimidating and after knowing him and his strengths and few weakness made his character even more amazing. Another Ranan never personally meet him ic or ooc but have seen him in the inn many times and after repeative encounters just seeing him thought that guy is creepy. Just my point of view or ask ooc best teachers are others much better then ourselves.

Dakari

[Lokarn]

For anyone else.. I am more interested in role play methods to use to create a character that is percieved to be scary.

Milly comes to mind, even Kethoth does.

I think I have the best method already, and I fear it's a method similar to Soulfiend's idea. Which is sad because it involves PvP as the only sure way to make others respect your evil character.

Sharteel did a great job of this, because she put the hammer down a lot, and because she was known for doing it at random times. Not many PCs would have challenged her or made remarks to her face.

I'd rather be allwed to RP that aspect out, but generally I am having no luck or little luck. I do have to admit some good results with Grushnak, but mainly from long time players who have seen him do what Sharteel has done, randomly put the hammer down.

I just wish more fear would come from rp is all.

[EDM Neo]

My thoughts are somewhat in line with Soulfien's, actually.

My PCs typically have three primary criteria for which they'll show caution, fear, wariness, etc. If at least one of these are fulfilled, they'll be scared. They might not openly show it, but they'd at least be quietly unnerved.



(1): There is good reason to believe that Scary Thing is an actual threat. That is to say, that Scary Thing is capable of inflicting serious harm, and is likely willing to do so. This one is highly subjective, depending on which character I'm playing. My inexperienced level twos finds many more things to be credible threats than my epics do, for obvious reasons. Even an ordinary person armed with a mundane dagger is dangerous to them, much less someone in spiky black full plate.

It also depends on circumstance... to give an example, Rose would be much more careful to avoid confrontations if she ran into Wyn out in the wilds than she would be in the middle of a crowded town where an attack would likely carry serious repercussions. Even if she thinks Wyn could successfully kill everyone there, she normally assumes she'd be unwilling to attempt it because there would be a significant risk that a witness would escape and spread the word.



(2): Scary Thing is actually -scary- in its own right, independent of the threat its believed to pose. This usually means an intimidate check, but there are some exceptions, when people can just convey genuine creepiness without it. For lower leveled PCs who have been exposed to fewer things, it doesn't take a lot to scare them (as per the rules on intimidation checks: d20+intimidate modifier vs d20+hit dice+wisdom modifier+bonuses to saving throws vs fear).

But for higher leveled ones, it takes more. By the time a PC is level 20, they've typically fought hoards of undead, at least a handful of powerful fiends, and at least one dragon. Scary Thing needs to either have established itself as being more dangerous than these (as per criteria one) or it needs to be -scarier- than they are. That is to say, they're not merely more dangerous (they may, in fact, be less dangerous), but they're better at coming across as disturbing and unsettling. They're skilled at intimidation.



(3): Milly.

No, really. Things that fit into criteria three are the "people can just convey genuine creepiness without [intimidate checks]" as I mentioned above. Milly is the best example of this I can think of. Most of my high level PCs don't consider her a criteria one threat, but she's creepy enough to make them uneasy anyway.

I'm afraid I don't have much advise on actually conveying a character this way yourself, though. This is technically a subset of criteria two, I suppose, but I'm keeping it separate because it doesn't involve any kind of dice roll or mechanics.



Something else to keep in mind is that people respond to fear in different ways. Most of my active PCs aren't exactly the sorts to get down on their knees begging or to openly quiver with fear unless in an unusually strenuous situation.

Just to use her as an example again, as she's currently my most active character, Rosaline's typical responses for "I am scared of that person" manifest themselves either as "I will avoid that person, so that they are are less likely to give me trouble," "I will be more on my guard than I usually am, so that I am more likely to be able to fend off any trouble," or "I will attempt to defuse the situation through social means, without showing weakness if possible (bluffing if necessary), so as to make that person less likely to give me trouble."

A few nights back, Rosaline teleported into Greatgaunt, and found Wyn there. Being low on spells, and wary of Wyn's ability to inflict harm (as per criteria one), she went back into the inn a while to reprepare. She came out again later, buffed to the teeth and wearing fortitude save boosting equipment, and then went about having conversations with people (including Wyn herself) as if nothing had ever happened. This was an example of Rosaline being on some level scared, and reacting to it using the second and third of the responses I outlined in the last paragraph.



Does this help at all?

[maeglhachel]

Scaring Tari is really easy ... just polymorph into a spider small enough to crawl up the insides of her pants

Seriously, though, I think, the distinction between creepiness and scariness brought up is very valid. People that had Tari scared to death in the past were often people who would be acting perfectly civil around people in Greatgaunt, for example, but with lots of rumours around them. And situation, yes, she had her reasons to fear Sharteel's or Zoe's wrath. Guess, what I'm saying is, it's the reputation people have, to a large extent. And that just needs time and consistency to build.

On another note, as a confessing goodie ... openly displaying religous symbols of banned religions in Greatgaunt doesn't do the trick. To the contrary, it makes Tari think "Thanks for letting me know" and "That person is stupid." (Not even mentioning how I consider it close to metagaming to just expect the guards not to react because you know it takes a DM to accidentally catch you. ... well the general "you".)

And as a final note ... being scary to who? And how often? Manage to make Tari scared and not just angry, and she'll just not be where you are. It'll be hard to get a second chance to scare her. That's how she carries on her life rather unimpressed even when she's still scared like hell by some people. Just saying, as people reacting like that impacts RP.

[salientshade]

Firstly, lets see.. when I think of "Scary" theres a few PCs who particularly come to mind. I think the most intimidating PC I've ever known is Ranan. Why is Ranan scary? Well.. it probably has something to do with the fact that he held raids on Isinhold back in the day where he killed everyone, captured people, tortured some.. etc etc.. He -earned- a reputation..

In other words, I agree immensely with Soulfiend's post. If you want to be scary, then you're going to have to -show- it.

As a suggestion for achieving this status, I think your character might want to break some rules. (disclaimer: i can't remember all the laws/ jail time for certain crimes in town) But.. you might want to crack some skulls, do some crime and then perhaps the time.. and when you get out people will know.. "hey.. this guys not afraid to break the rules.. i can't feel safe just cause we're in town.."

Just some thoughts.. hope it helps.

[ancientempathy]

I think this may help out with the discussion ... if not, then I can delete the post

frc.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=lore&action=display&thread=1935&page=1

The link lists acts of evil, and in it lists links to many other discussions, but those are mostly alignment debats.

What you can take from the overall thread, however, is the fact that their are certain evil acts you can commit that are just very scarey

[Charon's Claw]

The biggest factor to being truly scary is having PCs whose players are willing to allow them to be scared. If they aren't willing it's not really going to happen.

Aside from the above, there are types of scary. Bullies are probably the weakest of these, though evil characters that are known for action are kind of frightening.

[ConcreteSequential]

Though I wish I had something more insightful, I'm inclined to agree with what's already been said.

Reputation and demeanor are generally the things I'd use to base my PCs reaction. I try to be realistic with my PC reactions, but on the surface they might not seem obvious.

If my low level PC walks out of the inn and sees a group of perceived threats standing there, he's been known to *looks around*, then step back into the inn. IC, that's the "oh crap" reaction to something he feels is best avoided or intimidating to him. Unless cornered, he will generally avoid what he feels is unnerving or intimidating.

I think you're approach is good. You seem to be trying for that intimidating/ scarey demeanor, unfortunately either some don't feel you've established the correct reputation, or aren't buying it.
If that's the case, then you're next step would be to give them a reason to fear you.

You could try a few "discussions" in the wild with some of those PCs. Properly RPd, word should spread that there's a reason to be afraid. You could also make use of the nuclear option and just lower the boom in town, you'd definitely get everyone's attention this way, but it might be more attention then you want.

[The Supreme Watcher]

Keep in mind, Paladins are immune to fear and intimidation, as per the rules. You should never be able to frighten them in the normal sense. As such, Gerard is typically fearless of even the most heinous of evils.

However, I think that if you want to scare my characters, you need to go beyond the normal "I'm a big scary spikey guy, rawr."

Milly is good at this. She manages to capture creepy in an epic way. Sharteel was also a good example. Supreme confidence, coupled with sharp claws will make even the sternest of warrior balk. Kethoth is another example. I don't know of another character whose demeanor is more... chilling.

But, if you examine these characters, you'll find that none of them are spikey armored brutes. Those characters are excellent as goons to Big Bads but rarely carry the weight of their leaders' intimidation factor. To be truly scary, someone has to hold the strings, or simply... not give a damn about strings, and be their own walking army.

Szass Tam isn't scary because he's a lich (which, you know, is a good start), but because he's the most proven, evil, willing-to-destroy-who-it-takes Red Wizard in the world. Fzoul Chembryl isn't scary because of his armor choice, but because of what his conscience is capable of allowing him to do to achieve power.

So, I think that when you want a memorable, frightening character, one has to roleplay them with confidence (this is why blackguards get charisma bonuses), unscrupulousness, and really, a strange quirk that can be identified with their evil nature. The Red Dragon Disciple that stands on the other side of town and growls at people is rather bland, but the Red Dragon Disciple that's known to grind diamonds between her teeth... That's something memorable.

Make a hook, and stick with it, is the key, I guess.

[NHmikey]

After reading your post it brought back to mind one that was started by the player of Edward Lorkus a couple years ago. You may find something useful in it.

frc.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=roleplaydiscussion&action=display&thread=888&page=1

[soulfien]

Sept 22, 2010 0:28:21 GMT -5 Lokarn said:

For anyone else.. I am more interested in role play methods to use to create a character that is percieved to be scary.

Milly comes to mind, even Kethoth does.

I think I have the best method already, and I fear it's a method similar to Soulfiend's idea. Which is sad because it involves PvP as the only sure way to make others respect your evil character.

Sharteel did a great job of this, because she put the hammer down a lot, and because she was known for doing it at random times. Not many PCs would have challenged her or made remarks to her face.

I'd rather be allwed to RP that aspect out, but generally I am having no luck or little luck. I do have to admit some good results with Grushnak, but mainly from long time players who have seen him do what Sharteel has done, randomly put the hammer down.

I just wish more fear would come from rp is all.

Well, I cannot tell you how to be creepy. That would involv me giving away some of my own ideas that I may use sometime. And Milly is the awesomeness in creepy.

Sharteel was scary because she had scary friends who would help her lift that hammer

[Lokarn]

Alright, I have some good advice, and some new ideas to go on. A lot of posts helped me understand a few things better.

Thanks Neo, your post was insightfull, and yea, Wyn has noticed Rose a few times move off to re-cast a short term buff, so it's noticed as well.

[racestark]

Ask them about something that they thought at the time was told in confidence to someone they trusted. Basically, sneakers can scare the hell out of my character.
Torian did this to him once on his last failed attempt to convert her to his faith, in his roundabout way. Something that I had thought was discussed and planned with a friendly character a couple weeks before, she asked in great detail about things that she would only ask about if she had been in the room the whole time--a room we had trapped the entrance to before saying a word to each other. She quoted both mine and the friend PC a couple times. Haven't had the two cross paths since but now he's wary of EVERY hin he comes across.
Knowing secrets and lording it over someone is more anxiety inducing than threats of violence, if you ask me.

[Aodhan the Unusual]

Another thing to remember about fear is that, depending on the level of threat perceived, it can cause a person to go into Fight or Flight mode. What's this mean? Either a character will try to leave a scary situation, or they will get an adrenaline rush, rage, and attempt to kill that which scares them most. The PCs I play, for example, Torian would end up attempting to take the head off the person that scared her (or... end up in a stale mate stare down) if she couldn't talk her way out of the situation first. Oriana? Teleport. If that didn't work, run like hell. There's also the Phobia Freeze, where a person is so terrified of something they just completely freeze up. Sometimes even pass out because of the locking up of joints.

Yes, our characters are adventurers. However I love seeing Warrior-Woman Susan shriek in fear and run from spiders. Or Big-N-Mighty Ben shudder and freeze around snakes. It certainly reminds people that yes, like soldiers, they have seen the hells, fought Satan himself, but in the end are still just normal people trying to make a living.

[yago]

In the early days (before picking up the Perfect Self feat), Yago was afraid of:

- Any humanoid with wings;
- Any "large, hulking, looming" PC, so that included all the half orcs and any PC whose description described them as big and imposing (like Tower, for example);
- Any PC inside of a town who openly brandished their weapons (sword in hand, strung bow in hand, etc).

I mention this because I think it touches on CC's point. A key to having a PC be scary is other PCs' players willingness to have their PC be scared.  I had pre-established some of the things that would scare Yago, independently of whether other PCs were supposed to be scary or not (similarly to how Tarithel comes pre-shipped with a fear of spiders).

And then on to Neo's post about how those PCs deal with / manifest (or don't) that fear... pre-Perfect Self Yago would RUN (fast) when he saw any winged humanoid (much to the OOC amusement of Sharteel's and Ailren's players), and back away (with overt emoting) from any large looming PCs, or PCs with weapons drawn.

Current day Yago still backs away from drawn weapons (unless he perceives an opportunity to somewhat safely upsell the weapon holder an upgrade).

So... want to scare other PCs? Figure out which ones have players who will willingly let their PCs be scared!

[PilgrimSoul]

Sept 22, 2010 9:33:08 GMT -5 kottle said:

If you want an example of a scary character who is not even evil but scary, there is Krohn. He doesn’t need all the spiky accoutrements and red glowing eyes. He walks around half naked cleaving down monsters with force. He’ll duel at the drop of a hat. He role-plays an intimidating character. He has also put a lot of points into intimidate and will roll them with little hesitation. Want to be persuasive? Persuade skill points.

LOL

[maeglhachel]

Sept 23, 2010 1:56:50 GMT -5 yago said:

similarly to how Tarithel comes pre-shipped with a fear of spiders

*raises index finger* small ones, mind you ... bebiliths aren't scary ... just kinky
Um ... yeah, carry on with the actual topic

[ancientempathy]

Here is some of my general advise on being a fear-starting tyrant.

1.) The most important is to know when to stop being a tyrant and overbearing. Quit trying to excessively prove something.

You have to be able to demonstrate benevolence, even if it's for self-serving means. You do need to demonstrate some amount of patience. You can't "hack and slash and demand your beer," afterward, as it won't always work that way. That's the path of the insane, and the insane are more of a public nuisance than anything else in my opinion.

Perhaps the term benevolent isn't the best to use, but scary-evil does need to recognize the value of rewarding minions, and even complimenting others. A good way to be scary is to compliment another in such a fashion that subtly expresses your desire to bring harm onto them too. Here is an example.

Sharteel walks into a bar with her wings being shown and cold patience in her eyes. She notices a well dressed elf that catches her eyeballing him and his outfit. When walking past...

"Don't you just look mouthwatering in that outfit; I could gobble you up!"

The truth is masked by a playful tone, or an attempt at it. The elf really was receiving a compliment, but also being told she wants to eat him.

So word play is an important part of inciting fear.

2.) The careful spread of words and rumors plays a part in establishing yourself as a fearful individual

Even if you have to hire out a bard to do the dirty-work and then later feast on them; always remember that people are quickest to assume based on rumors and word alone. So play off of that if you can.

"Did you hear about a woman that seduces men in allies and then removes half their hearts?"

Again, word play is a good way to incite fear and anger. Think of a politician LOL

3) Manipulation is an art

Chaotic people don't need to limit themselves when it comes to the law. Let's face it, the law does suck perhaps, but it can certainly be a humorous fall-back on to prevent people from harming you if you're a clever wit about your approach. You can even slander the law for its lack of initiative on whatever the case may be at the time. This is what we know as manipulation.

Do rub it in peoples faces that they can't touch you and that they can't do anything with the law, other than to report, because they have zero authority. Careful with Harper's because they will knife you A player also needs to be careful on an OOC level too when it comes to provocation so that you do not become overbearing and annoying on an OOC level as well. There is a balance to achieve, but that only comes with time and experience.

Sharteel and Kethoth were scientists when it came to manipulating the law and manipulating their public image. Sharteel joined Alizarin Academy as some public leverage to her advantage on being accepted in certain sects, so she could later then work her malicious plans. Sharteel was concerned with political manipulation for the sake of her own amusement and entertainment. She cared for nothing else in life than her own joy and it was usually at the expense of others. This is a cruel mindset.

4.) Public presentation is important & so is your audience

Fear-inducing evil need to consider who they want to scare first before they go about doing it. Is your target audience the commoners, or is it adventurers?

I can safely say if another adventurer is parading around with a big weapon, spiky armor, helmed self and tossing words around....The bulk of my characters are going to think you were born in Greatgaunt. It would not surprise me either if this was only being done in greatgaunt. You might scare the chickens and the cows, and a lot of commoners, but you're not going to scare the adventurer who have a more stern mentality, typically.

Assume no adventurer can be feared for that matter. It helps relieve OOC stress, but don't let it deter you from attempting the act of inciting fear. So with that, show public tact and present yourself well. Chaotic evil barbarians don't need to always be dressed in blood and foaming at their mouths; they can be wearing intimidating tribal paintings and wearing acceptable cloth that places emphasis on certain muscles.

Sometimes it can be a double-edged sword too, and no matter what you say/wear, or how well you burp your ABC's through your nose; all will be affected differently.

There was good reason why Sharteel liked to expose herself as much as PG-13 allowable. Never mind the fact she was a bit of an exhibitionist (which played apart of her exceptional level of vanity). It falsified her as someone unconcerned with herself, and painted her with the image of being flighty. If you see someone unconcerned about themselves then is it not unreasonable to assume they aren't too responsible either? Not always the case, but it can hold true.

Presentations are key steps in getting people to under-estimate you, or even over-estimate you. You ideally want to under-estimate people you are seeking direct hostile conflict with, though, more than trying it as a means to start fear. A good way to incite respect/fear in other adventurers is to present yourself in such a manner where they start to over-estimate you, actually.

But hey, if you have built yourself up with a heavy reputation where people are already fearing you; then you can walk around in whatever you want I suppose!

5.) Have actual goals.

Inciting fear for its sake can probably make Bane happy, but without any true concrete plan and path...it just gets old to adventurers.

6.) Betray people

Careful on the path of betrayal because clearly it can lead to some serious consequences. However, if you betray people in a non-hostile manner, it could perhaps leave a longer-lasting impression and somewhat safer in the end. If you hire someone out to work for you and then don't pay up; they may be inclined to talk about how untrustworthy you were.

People who can't trust you means that a seed is being planted of fear. Distrust leads to fear. I don't think that's unsafe to assume. Distrust makes people more self-aware and cautious when around you too. Think your character can smell another's distrust toward you? Then play off of it somehow.

Evil that wishes to be fearful needs to be smart to make their influence long lasting when they wish to ignite fear among others.

That's all I can think of right now. I feel its only just rehasing what others may have said in the past or what the Book of Vile Darkness indicates, but I hope it helps. The details in the book of vile darkness are great starting blocks on wanting to be scarey as well. I've posted a link with information from the book.

Other bits of advise may be to be ready to back-up your threats if you make them.

Investing in intimidation is a good way to get people to be afraid of you but it should not be used as a mechcanical fall-back on. The higher the intimidation, the more it should be representing how you can support its number: either through your words, actions, or deeds.

And if anyone can ever achieve the level for it....Epic reputation is a great way to help with rumor spreading and inflicting fear. Whether or not it'll still scare a character is entirely up for grabs...But it's certainly putting your name in the market.

Again, this is all just general advise and by no means isn't anything to limit yourself to. Even I've practiced other stuff I can't quite remember at this time.

[sneakingyoda]

*points up*

This may be a very lengthy explanation above me, but this is also- I think- spot on.

(Is it any wonder why Yulena stayed away from Sharteel? She got her ten foot pole out REAL fast.)

[ancientempathy]

Sept 23, 2010 8:59:38 GMT -5 @sneakingyoda said:

*points up*

This may be a very lengthy explanation above me, but this is also- I think- spot on.

(Is it any wonder why Yulena stayed away from Sharteel? She got her ten foot pole out REAL fast.)

Yulena didn't even trust her "Deep Throat" contact LOL

[ManyAsOne]

Sept 21, 2010 20:58:17 GMT -5 @soulfien said:

confrontation. Just plain confrontation. PVP. Want to be scary? How many points have you dumped into intimidate?

If it's only a couple, or none, then you're not scary.

If you want to prove you're powerful then attack my pc and prove it. Beat the tar out of him but don't kill him. Push him around, heal him, and beat him up again. I promise you that if you do that he won't be laughing or rolling his eyes!

He may go and get some stronger friends and come back, but he won't be denying your strength.

But if you simply wish to scare him, dump some points into intimidate and RP it out. I'll respect the roll.

PvP can be a great tool for terror. PvP is unpredictable and nothing like fighting NPCs. You never know what to expect and so your adrenaline kicks in and you're more than a little on edge.

Likewise, just from a mechanics standpoint, intimidate is never useless in trying to scare people, though, if its unaccompanied by anything very potent in terms of its context, it can fall flat as strictly a mechanic, which is always a shame.

I like to add something to intimidaton. You can use all manner of tools. Writing methods, plot devices, archetypes.

For example, there's the good ol' "fear of the unknown" and the "fear of the known".

With the first, 'fear of the unknown', we exploit it by simply denying the victim a reason for any of the horrors inflicted upon them. I'll use a more close-to-reality example rather than anything fantastic or supernatural:

You've been kidnapped. You were walking home at night when you were accosted, a black hood cast over your head as you're pummeled then stuffed in what you think is the trunk of a car. As you bump and jostle around as your captors speed off, you're confronted with the unknown. And it terrifies you. Nothing is more scary than the idea of simply not knowing.

The light burns as the hood comes off and you're in a concrete room with a bright light aimed at you. You can see the silhouette of your captor just beside the bright lamp directed at your face. In your peripherals, you see two or three others, leaning against a far wall. You try to move, but you can't. You've been tied to a chair.

You scream, demanding to know what's going on, who are these people, why are you here? You try to make what is unknown known, and thus give yourself something to utilize as a tool to aid you. And that's what's so great about using the fear of the unknown. It leaves a sense of helplessness, because you truly lack a grasp on the depth of your situation.

Que the first intimidation check.

Or... Exploit the 'fear of the known' next.

Instead of questioning you or explaining why you are a captive, the silhouette of your captor moves off to the side. Your gaze follows them to another individual, bound as you are. Then you hear the motor of what looks to be an electric turkey-carver. What follows is some stuff that I won't expand upon here, suffice to say that you are forced to watch the whole thing, the screams of the victim having long-since turned into helpless whimpering.

Then the captor lets you in and exploits the 'fear of the known'. You know what they are capable of. In these case, we'll just pick something random. They're mobsters, after all the scene more or less compliments it. And they say that you know who the 'snitch' or 'rat' in the outfit is (apparently you're a mobster too, go figure), and exploit your 'fear of the known' by uttering the chilling words:

"Or you're next".

Que intimidation check.

That is a really extreme example. I don't condone torture and emphasize that the rules on this server be respected in that regard. This is a family server. But the point is, intimidation checks are great when used in more than a paper-thin context.

Sept 22, 2010 8:55:52 GMT -5 The Supreme Watcher said:

Keep in mind, Paladins are immune to fear and intimidation, as per the rules. You should never be able to frighten them in the normal sense. As such, Gerard is typically fearless of even the most heinous of evils.

I agree and disagree with the paladin point. Yes, a paladin has an unshakable resolve, but I've always like to look at it as just that. Resolve.

Even the sturdiest foundations can be shaken. *Spooky voice*

For example, what prospect would be more terrifying to a paladin than the possibility of harm coming to innocents? Just because they aren't paralyzed by fear doesn't mean its an alien emotion, at least in my opinion.

A villain, lets say an evil mage, is holding a child hostage, threatening to throw him into a deep dark pit if the paladin takes a step closer in a last ditch effort to ensure his escape and continued villainy. I think its perfectly reasonable for the paladin to feel a chill of fear when he sees that child being held precariously close to that ledge. The difference, I think, is that fear wouldn't harm the paladin's resolve.

A dragon rears its head and lets out a mighty roar, its breath fetid with the deaths of countless adventurers. The paladin feels the fear of someone facing death, but, whereas most would be frozen in place or flee screaming, the paladin grits his teeth, nods to the fear, and presses on.

My favorite, example, however, is also my all-time favorite quote of a player on FRC. A group of players in a special event a long time ago had been whisked away into the Nine Hells. As they looked through the darkness and heard the horrors that echoed throughout the dark chasm they were in, the warrior looked to the paladin and asked "how are you feeling?" The steady march forward reflected their resolve, their unshakable resolve, but their reply reflected the fear they felt: "... as well as a paladin can feel in Hell..."

Of course, I could have completely been misinterpreting the line. In any case, to me it seemed the perfect balance of a paladin's force of will, even in the face of the budding terror in their hearts.

I realize that was only a small point, but I thought it would be worth mentioning. I love the concept of fear to a paladin. I think its a fantastic opportunity to use the mechanics of the class to, as opposed to simply saying 'no' to fear, use that fear to make that class feature more potent a roleplaying tool.

As for scaring people in general...

... zombies. Zombies scare the crap out of me.

Milly is good at this. She manages to capture creepy in an epic way. Sharteel was also a good example. Supreme confidence, coupled with sharp claws will make even the sternest of warrior balk. Kethoth is another example. I don't know of another character whose demeanor is more... chilling.

General 'wrongness' is always a wonderful tool. Its used by writers like HP Lovecraft and Stephen King. Present something mundane, but twist it. Make it wrong. Unnatural. A halfling with a glassy-eyed stare, for example.

In the Amnityville Horror (not the scariest of movies, but still a classic), the house itself was unnatural and even looked it. The building, from the side, almost had a skull-like shape to it with the attic lights on in the shadow of night. During the day, it was nothing more than a house. But at night it had a face, and a menacing one at that. You could recognize that the object, which was otherwise mundane, was still filled with that looming 'wrongness'.

But, if you examine these characters, you'll find that none of them are spikey armored brutes. Those characters are excellent as goons to Big Bads but rarely carry the weight of their leaders' intimidation factor. To be truly scary, someone has to hold the strings, or simply... not give a damn about strings, and be their own walking army.

Absolutely true. Sadly, this is the way that the Survival Horror genre in video-games died. It became less about horror and more about spikey brutes with blood and gore.

Good video about it here:

www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/1933-Where-Did-Survival-Horror-Go

Szass Tam isn't scary because he's a lich (which, you know, is a good start), but because he's the most proven, evil, willing-to-destroy-who-it-takes Red Wizard in the world. Fzoul Chembryl isn't scary because of his armor choice, but because of what his conscience is capable of allowing him to do to achieve power.

Likewise, horror can be achived by something unstoppable. Something that doesn't care. Though its a hard thing to pull off and still maintain the semblance of true horror. Is a horde of orcs rushing down a hillside bent on the destruction of the town below 'horrifying'? Yes. But is it 'horror'? Not in my opinion.

But it can be done. What made Michael Myers and Freddy Kruger such good horror villains is that they were unstoppable in their pursuits and capable of anything. Michael had been shot, beaten over the head, hit by a car, etc, etc, etc.... and still came back for more. Sheer determination can be scary.

Sept 23, 2010 8:44:26 GMT -5 @ancientempathy said:

Here is some of my general advise on being a fear-starting tyrant.

1.) The most important is to know when to stop being a tyrant and overbearing. Quit trying to excessively prove something.


2.) The careful spread of words and rumors plays a part in establishing yourself as a fearful individual

3) Manipulation is an art

4.) Public presentation is important & so is your audience

5.) Have actual goals.

6.) Betray people

1. Amen. Nothing kills fear more than the evil character that reverts to being a petulant child when their attempts to intimidate fail. It shows, and terribly so, when you try to hard to put forward a scary front by throwing your weight around. Even worse when it turns into "Oh, yeah! Well I'll kill you! Watch your back! You're going to pay!", etc, etc.

A truly scary prospect is mocking a villain, having them quietly take it and eventually walk away. Then... two, three days (weeks, months) later, seeing that same person standing in the middle of the road as you make your way to another settlement. Then being shown the error of your ways. Its even better when you have a witness to it that can flee and spread rumors of your vengeful deed.

Which brings us to...

2. Again, amen. Rumors are powerful and mean the difference between being known as someone scary, and just being known as a blow-hard who's bark is worse than the bite. Carefully cultivate those rumors to support that image you make. Don't openly commit your deeds except for rare instances. Its far scarier to hear rumors that someone has no compulsion about killing than to simply see it (in a fantasy context, that is). The sociopathic, Ted Bundy-esque character is far scarier than the marauding orc.

3. Manipulation is hard. Especially if you're trying to put forth a scary front. You have to use this tool sparingly and only with careful planning. Getting exposed and when all of the cogs and machinations are revealed to everyone, its disastrous. No longer are you the mysterious figure with all manner of myth. You're three kids stacked on each others shoulders in an adult-sized overcoat trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes which isn't as scary as it is comical.

4. This is similar to rumors. The way you present yourself is everything. It doesn't have to be all spikes and black. Michael Myers wore a white mask and a light-blue workman's cover-all. Freddy wore a multi-colored striped sweater. Its more about how you carry yourself than how you look (though appearance does matter a little). What's more is that its also about who you're trying to scare with your public image. So its a hard balancing act.

Of course, there are exceptions. Cthulhu is a walking image of horror because of its appearance. I, for a time, played a large half-orc dressed in black and green who had spikes a-plenty. But I'd like to think my conduct made the impression and the look only complimented it (cheesy as it was). Sure enough, the half-orc started the Raging Eye guild (this was a long time ago) and the guild's members were generally avoided when they trucked through town (of course, we were mostly DMs in the guild too, so that could have been it, lol ;D ).

The point is that we didn't "ooga-booga'd" at everyone. We attacked people on the roads. Tried our best to cover our tracks. Subtle threats coupled with sinister boasts of dark deeds... that coupled with rumors spreading about how we kidnapped elven maidens, slew men, and munched on their bones all helped to form our image. It was because of the careful way we conducted ourselves.

5. I agree and disagree. Sometimes scary is something that is aimless. A zombie doesn't have a goal, but it still scares the crap out of me (though I suppose 'brains' is a goal).

6. Betrayal is dangerous. Yes, if done correctly and carefully, helps to cultivate an image of you as merciless, it can also create situations were you start to loose the 'scary' factor and just look like that murderous jerk. Balance. All about balance. It means the difference between being Professor Moriarty, frightening criminal mastermind, and Elroy the Street Thug.




And I'm done. I'm sure I could wrap up this rant nicely if I was willing to spend the time to do it, but given how disjointed my thoughts are here and how messy it is, the time would likely be another hour or two.

[probablyamage]

I'll mention that different characters have different buttons which can be pushed. My wizard doesn't worry much about a warrior....any warrior, no matter how powerful. The worst that the warrior can do is kill him, and as an adventurer he's faced that prospect more than once. He knows enough people that he would probably get a true resurrection, even if his body was hidden. What scares him is not death, but worse than death situations. He fears Kethoth due to rumor and because he once made an offhand comment about how he would prefer to permanently alter a person's personality instead of killing him, because its less of a hassle to deal with the law over that. That, spoken in a way which by context was clearly -not- a threat, but a simple statement worries him to this day. My Dwarf (who I very rarely play, but does exist!) would think its silly, and worry far more about the man with the big sword.