Color has meaning, even if for fashion

[ancientempathy]

That paladin alignment discussion got me into wanting to post about color use in forgotten realms and provide something of a fun list to reference so all can ponder over. Hopefully this turns into a constructive discussion. Feel free to detail your characters habits

I'm pretty neutral in thought about colors in forgotten realms in general. Faiths have prefered colors to represent themselves, but the color itself is still neutral in my opinion. How can a color make you evil, or good, afterall? I don't think it's good or evil that decides whether a color falls on an alignment spectrum or not either.

You can give the color a meaning with preconceived notions, and in real life we certainly relate some colors with expressions and feelings. Some even see colors from sound. In a setting like forgotten realms...I'd say a character needs to be careful on who they accuse of people being/doing what, merely based off coloration.

Some may be stern enough to say, that it is ignorance to assume anything about someone based on color alone. Others are content to say that it is better to be safe than sorry, due to the people/creatures that tend to favor the color use. Whose more right?

Gorstag (LG priest of the Red Knight) won't put it past himself to wear red and black. The first important reason is that he knows there's a good chunk of ignorant folk out there that'll think he could be the shady type and this in turn helps him out as a Purple Dragon. If he can flush people out of hiding that might be curious towards him then it makes his job a heck of a lot easier ;D The other reason for wearing it is to just plain look good. Meanwhile Gorstag doesn't hide the fact that he aids the people of cormyr, does have a uniform to prove he's in military service, and cites sample deeds performed as needed. But I suppose this could be all a ploy from the mastermind of a strategist for a more sinister plot eh?

I went through the Deities Do's and Dont's web supplement to research which deities either had red or black (or both), in their church. I stuck to only humans. Here is this list:

Anhur - Red - Main Colors: White, Red, Gold

Bane - Red & Black - Main Colors: Black, Red, vile green

Beshaba - Black - Main Colors: Mauve, purple, black

Cyric - Black - Main Colors: Black, dark purple, silver

Garagos - Black & Red - Main Colors: Black, red

Gargauth - Red - Main Colors: Red, White

Gond - Crimson - Main Colors: Saffron, crimson

Gwaeron Windstrom - Red - Main Colors: green, red

Helm - Red - Main Colors: Steel, red

Hoar - Black - Main Colors: Black, Gray

Ilmater - Red - Main Colors: Gray, Red

Kossuth - Red - Main Colors: Red, Crimson, Orange

Lathander - Red - Main Colors: Yellow, red, rose

Lliira - Red - Main Colors: orange, yellow, red

Loviatar - Red & Black - Main Colors: Black, white, red

Malar - Red & Black - Main Colors: Red, brown, gray, black

Mask - Black - Main Colors: Gray, Black

Mielikki - Red - Main Colors: Green, red

Milil - Crimson - Main Colors: Crimson, gold

Oghma - Black - Main Colors: white, black, gold

Red Knight - Red - Main Colors: Red, white

Sebek - Black - Main Colors: green, brown, black

Set - Black - Main Colors: Green, black, gold

Shar - Black - Main Colors: Purple, black

Sharess - Ruby red - Main colors: amber yellow, ruby red

Sune - Deep crimson - Main Colors: Deep crimson

Talos - Black - Main Colors: Black, gold, silver

Tempus - Blood red - Main Colors: Brown, Purple, blood red

Tiamat - Black - Main colors: Black, gold

Velsharoon - Black - main Colors: Black, gray

All deities that share Red -and- Black: Bane, Garagos, Loviatar, Malar. Of all these deities, 3 are evil, and the other is chaotic neutral (Garagos, whose bordering evil, arguably).

All the deities that share Black: Velsharoon, Tiamat, Talos, Shar, Set, Sebek, Oghma, Mask, Malar, Loviatar, Hoar, Garagos, Cyric, Bane. Of all these deities, 11 are evil, and 3 neutral in some form (one on border line evil).

All the deities that share Red: Tempus, Sune, Sharess, Red Knight (DUH), Milil, Mielikki, Malar, Loviatar, Lliira, Lathander, Kossuth, Ilmater, Helm, Gwaeron Windstrom, Gond, Garagos, Bane, Anhur. Of all these deities, 6 are good, 8 are neutral, and 3 are evil.

Please correct me if I am wrong on whose evil and whose not. Trying to go off memory as I’m too lazy to check the sources first-hand!

I'll refrain from presenting more thoughts until people have had a chance to analyze and join in on the discussion at their leisure

[Micteu]

Thank you! The closest I can get otherwise is by looking at the pictures of their symbols, which are often misleading.

I guess Uju's robe has Oghma written all over it and I didn't even know it.

[sneakingyoda]

I've known for a long time that Oghma's colors were White, Black, and Gold.

When I first faced that knowlege and how to dress Yule, I decided that it was really boring. I would end up looking like a checkerboard. Favor the white, I must be good! Favor the black, I must be evil!

Maybe I should have gone all gold!

*coughs*

Seriously though, in the end I just made it so Yulena personally loves the color blue. And when she's being extra "cleric-ish" then she'll go ahead and put on the white robes with the black and gold trim.

Boring though. *sighs at the Oghma's choice of faith colors!*

Edit: Maybe Oghma should have gone with Iridescent. You can't get more neutral than ALL colors.

[soulfien]

well, as said in another recent post, it is all about experience, not source material.

If 90% of the people who wear black are evil thieves and murderers, then guess what? People who favor black are going to be seen as evil thieves and murderers.

The people who have come before you, Kottle, have ruined black.

[Lokarn]

My new goal is to make purple = evil ... oh wait.....

I'll try for silver and gold instead.


OR you can go ahead and take each person one by one. Which may save you a headache.. or decapitation. ;D

[ancientempathy]

Sept 14, 2010 16:53:21 GMT -5 @sneakingyoda said:

I've known for a long time that Oghma's colors were White, Black, and Gold.

When I first faced that knowlege and how to dress Yule, I decided that it was really boring. I would end up looking like a checkerboard. Favor the white, I must be good! Favor the black, I must be evil!

Maybe I should have gone all gold!

*coughs*

Seriously though, in the end I just made it so Yulena personally loves the color blue. And when she's being extra "cleric-ish" then she'll go ahead and put on the white robes with the black and gold trim.

Boring though. *sighs at the Oghma's choice of faith colors!*

Edit: Maybe Oghma should have gone with Iridescent. You can't get more neutral than ALL colors.

You could have tryed for white and gold. With the right mix, it might just look pimpin'.

[Aodhan the Unusual]

Thought I read somewhere that Velsharoon also uses the colors of sickly (think puss) yellow and green. Maybe I miss read that... Anyhoo...

Everyone wears black. Does this make everyone evil? Nope. However, I would SOOOO question everyone wearing anything BUT black.

[Deleted]

Thought I read somewhere that Velsharoon also uses the colors of sickly (think puss) yellow and green. Maybe I miss read that... Anyhoo...

Correct-O-mundo. I like to stick to greens / Grave yard fog and that disgusting pinky color for my Velsheroonites.

As for colors... I look over the dye kit and think "Hey, that will look awesome" and then use it. I pay little attention to the colors of the deities unless I am playing a cleric or a Paladin.

~Sio

[iangallowglas]

Sept 14, 2010 21:52:12 GMT -5 Sioladuil said:

Thought I read somewhere that Velsharoon also uses the colors of sickly (think puss) yellow and green. Maybe I miss read that... Anyhoo...

Correct-O-mundo. I like to stick to greens / Grave yard fog and that disgusting pinky color for my Velsheroonites.

As for colors... I look over the dye kit and think "Hey, that will look awesome" and then use it. I pay little attention to the colors of the deities unless I am playing a cleric or a Paladin.

~Sio

I generally ignore the colors too except for clerics. Even with clerics, I don't always choose the gods colors for my clerics. I usually just pick things I like, or in Ian's case, stuff that looks terrible since he has no sense of style.

[The Supreme Watcher]

My Helmite Paladin doesn't wear a single Helmite color.

Go figure!

I play it as the colors of his hometown's guard, which he served in.

[Micteu]

Sept 14, 2010 16:53:21 GMT -5 @sneakingyoda said:

I've known for a long time that Oghma's colors were White, Black, and Gold.

When I first faced that knowlege and how to dress Yule, I decided that it was really boring. I would end up looking like a checkerboard. Favor the white, I must be good! Favor the black, I must be evil!

I went a little more gray, myself, than straight black and white. It's not like there was too much contrast in the dye in medieval times, anyways.



Think you could do something like that? There's even a little blue in there, and I think it's a pretty color combination.

[Aodhan the Unusual]

Really, it comes down to, you can't judge a book by it's cover (or a ho by her clothes ). Just gotta get out there and get to know people. There are people that look evil and are the goodiest two-shoes ever, and those that look all good and innocent that secretly drink baby's blood and kick puppies just to hear them suffer. Ya just never know.

As for my characters... Torian's always worn blacks, greys, and dark blues typically. Being a stealth build, that's usually the best to do. Oriana wears whatever colors I think look best at the time. Some of her more... interesting color combinations has been because I either couldn't decide which I liked better, forgot to change a color, or just didn't care. Her clothes are typically blacks and greys though to hide the dust and dirt from what she does.

[828stingstingneo]

From the OP, it seems that according to source black and red does usually mean evil, black alone probably means evil, but red is a free-for all. Does the source say anything about how typical it is for clerics and ordinary worshipers to use these color schemes, though?

In practice, none of my characters dress according to their deities' color schemes, in part because I don't know what they are and in part because I'm too lazy to use the dye kit. The vast majority of my alternate characters haven't altered their gear at all and the savvy shopper might be able to recognize where they bought certain gear just by looking at them.

In practice, color is an interesting way to communicate. Elvalith knows of a necromancer who wears black, and she's completely comfortable with that color choice. She also knows of a possibly reformed necromancer who has switched to white. Interestingly, she is not as comfortable with that color choice, and she considers the possibility that his change in garb is merely a ruse.

Since my main character is a druid, I'm also curious to see the statistics of another stereotype if someone could find them: Nature means green. Do most nature deities' colors include green? Are there nature deities that don't have green? What non-nature deities do include green?

[Lady Frost]

One of the things Loviatan novices are taught is "... The lash, fire, and cold are the three pains that never fail the devout. ..." I used that line to decide that fire is red, lash is black and cold is ice colored. Seeing as red and black tend to attract attention more, I have most of Zoe's things in ice/black, including her armor. Zoe's only red and black outfit is worn specifically to be noticed and identified (and because lots of people send me tells and say they like the design).

Also, I'd like to plead to players to ONLY use pure black and white for accents or where is has to be used. Making your whole outfit in pure black or white looks unrealistic and a few player's (including me) will use our PC's to make fun of your "poor dying skills" as a reminder that you look silly.

[ancientempathy]

Sept 15, 2010 11:02:22 GMT -5 828stingstingneo said:

From the OP, it seems that according to source black and red does usually mean evil, black alone probably means evil, but red is a free-for all. Does the source say anything about how typical it is for clerics and ordinary worshipers to use these color schemes, though?

In practice, none of my characters dress according to their deities' color schemes, in part because I don't know what they are and in part because I'm too lazy to use the dye kit. The vast majority of my alternate characters haven't altered their gear at all and the savvy shopper might be able to recognize where they bought certain gear just by looking at them.

In practice, color is an interesting way to communicate. Elvalith knows of a necromancer who wears black, and she's completely comfortable with that color choice. She also knows of a possibly reformed necromancer who has switched to white. Interestingly, she is not as comfortable with that color choice, and she considers the possibility that his change in garb is merely a ruse.

Since my main character is a druid, I'm also curious to see the statistics of another stereotype if someone could find them: Nature means green. Do most nature deities' colors include green? Are there nature deities that don't have green? What non-nature deities do include green?

The answers to many of your questions can be found here

www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20020504a

That is the deities Do's and Dont's that I was referencing. Its only 800 KB

[Teneas]

My character has always, and will always fall into the "wears black cause he is shady" column. That being said, I made Teneas when I was 11, so...was about 21 years ago. It has always been a part of his backstory that Black and gold were his family's colors. Weird for a sun elf, I know, but was most likely cause my favorite color, then and now, was black.

Since he has come to FRC, and is a different incarnation, and happened, after much rp to fall into Erevan's loving, fickle arms. Erevan's color is black, as he clergy always wears it, and the God himself wears it as well. Always.with a tinge of green somewhere as well to represent his love of the forests.

So, when you see Ten, the black is for a number of reasons. Sometimes it's tinged with gold, sometimes green.

[sneakingyoda]

Sept 14, 2010 19:45:32 GMT -5 @ancientempathy said:

You could have tryed for white and gold. With the right mix, it might just look pimpin'.

Big pimpin Yule! I blind you with the colors of scholarly MIGHT. *cues music for a strut*

Sept 14, 2010 23:47:28 GMT -5 Micteu said:

I went a little more gray, myself, than straight black and white. It's not like there was too much contrast in the dye in medieval times, anyways.



Think you could do something like that? There's even a little blue in there, and I think it's a pretty color combination.

It's funny because if you had your character and my character stand side by side, we'd probably already have color consensus. I guess this just means that clerics of Oghma don't need beauty coordination.

[Preter]

Sept 15, 2010 12:54:54 GMT -5 Lady Frost said:

Also, I'd like to plead to players to ONLY use pure black and white for accents or where is has to be used. Making your whole outfit in pure black or white looks unrealistic and a few player's (including me) will use our PC's to make fun of your "poor dying skills" as a reminder that you look silly.

I have to agree that half my aversion to black in this game is that players use it so often and it looks so terrible. With the great crafting engine nwn has it's nearly an insult to look so drab. Nothing makes me want to cry more than when I enter GG and I see a person under each tree and next to each fence post in a black tunic with a black shadowed hood. I feel like dumbo among the crows.

[DM Smass (Retired)]

Agreed on the pure black/white. Charcoal looks much better if you must have a black outfit.

[fred]

Agreed, agreed!

I needed a white outfit once. I thought Ice Blue made a nice white. If you like white I recommend checking that out.

I sometimes use Pure Black in accents, but as a main color it looks like a cartoon. Charcoal makes a good black.

"Black Onyx", oddly enough, shows on my screen as a dark green. Some people see it as green and others as black. Strange, that.

The colors Mouse wears may or may not have meaning to her or anybody else.

[Lokarn]

Charcoal looks very nice on LEATHER as a cloth color, it looks very bad, IMO for cloth people use pure black, because it is the only one they can find, and is obvious.

I would like to give advice taught to me by AE aka Kungfu Chicken.

Shiny black is a better black for cloth over using pure black, for main colors.

I do use pure black for some details, such as the trim on some cloaks and clothing.

[The Supreme Watcher]

[ancientempathy]

LMFAO

[Micteu]

*redesigns the Master Chief in his museum mod with the new color*

Sept 15, 2010 15:51:05 GMT -5 @sneakingyoda said:

It's funny because if you had your character and my character stand side by side, we'd probably already have color consensus. I guess this just means that clerics of Oghma don't need beauty coordination.

But Uju neither follows Oghma nor is a cleric. How does that rank?

[tskfrc58]

Uthar (miraster) has relatively benign colors...white and ice blue, in line with his origin lands and his current haunts amonth the peaks of the stormhorns.

Its his spikey spider carapace of his robe and the yellow puss-dripping, dead flesh-smelling, vapor cloud-emitting, skull-headed, yellow-eyed staff of pestilence that gives his alignment away. That and the cloud of gnats that follows it...