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Post by DM Richard (Retired) on Mar 9, 2005 23:08:50 GMT -5
Ok. Now for a real FRC creature or NPC, or maybe even a player. AC 28, HP 82, +6 to hit, does 1d8+7 damage main hand, 1d6+3 for the off hand, lousy saving throws, no SR, not undead, treated as a level 2 or 3. For each of the following classes what level would find this an even fight (in other words 50/50 chance of victory): Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Palidin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard.
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Post by thogrimur on Mar 9, 2005 23:16:21 GMT -5
Hmm. I am level 8 rogue - I pray to Tymora... I might get lucky. My wisdom is low...yeah, I think I could take it! I would rate it challenging though! It would all depend on the success of my intial sneak attack. Success or failure of this strike would set the tone for the rest of the fight. Definitely would have a fallback trap or two just to ensure my getaway!
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Post by DM Richard (Retired) on Mar 9, 2005 23:20:03 GMT -5
Please rate each of the classes as to what level you believe they would need to be to win 50% of the time. If you feel like showing your stats go ahead and list your ac, base to hit, base damage, and hit points.
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Post by tskfrc58 on Mar 10, 2005 5:50:26 GMT -5
Ok. Now for a real FRC creature or NPC, or maybe even a player. AC 28, HP 82, +6 to hit, does 1d8+7 damage main hand, 1d6+3 for the off hand, lousy saving throws, no SR, not undead, treated as a level 2 or 3. For each of the following classes what level would find this an even fight (in other words 50/50 chance of victory): Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Palidin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard. Assuming your not poking fun at the attempts of players to analyze the previous post.... hmm....your describing a mid-low level fighter with a beefed up AC. a plus 6 main hand dual wield thac0 and those hit points implies most likely a 7th to 9th level fighter with dual wield. The AC28 however throws me a bit, as this guy would either be a high dex-er or have heavy plate armor and a good spread of rings,etc. This could also be a dex fighter , like a ranger, but with beefed up hit points. I dont see any way a 3rd level npc could have 80 plus HP wit han AC28, and even the thac0 given is out of range for a 3rd level dual wielder, without magical augmentation. AC 28 on a 7th to 9th lvl fighter would require a dex of about 16 (anymore and the bonus is lost wearing the plate), full plate plus 2, a natural armor amulet 2, ring of deflection 2, and possibly a dodge item rank 2 . A 50 percent win rate character matchup breakdown for this would be as follows: It needs to be assumed that a character opposing this npc would need a hit rate of at least 25% in melee. To overcome that AC28 of the enemy a 5th level ftr would need a 19 or 20 to hit, so in order to reach the desired 25percent chance, (augmented die roll of 16-20), i am also trying to take into account what the PC may be wearing to provide that npc the same 25percent, so ive played with my character levels as below to create a "challenging" encounter Barbarian- (typical stats, medium armor, no shield, one two handed weapon) Level 8 or 9 should give more damage than he receives, due to the higher Thac0, and hit points balancing out the multiple attacks from the bad guy, thereby creating a balanced situation. Fighter/ paladin/ Cleric (buffed) (heavy armor w/shield) Level 7 or 8 will be a fair matchup. The higher AC and Thac) will again balance the multiple attacks of the bad guy. If the cleric is buffed and has time for an offensive spell or two they should fare pretty well. Cleric (unbuffed)Monk (good dex, and stun attacks) Druid(shifter or caster)and Ranger. a fairly even matchup for the cleric of 9 level in melee, provided the cleric has good AC heavy armor. The ranger may fare a bit better at 8th level, as the dex AC bonus may makeup for the lack of heavier armor. The druid would fare well depending on the layout of spells chosen and the shape shifted into. Rogue - 10th level assuming a frontal , non-sneak melee(rogue wont be dealing as much damage, regardless of hits, unles sthey can acheive sneak attack. 6th or 7th level if the rogue has the ability to get a sneak in Mage/Bard Obviously if the caster gets an offensive spell, particularly a disabling spell like hold,entangle,etc. The battle will be over very quicly in favor of the caster, due to the low SR and saves. It is just as obvious that these classes stand little chance in melee unassisted for long. The range therefore is level 5 casting or level 12melee for the mage, and level 7 casting, level 9 melee for the bard, adjusted for the advantage/disadvantage each class has in melee/casting.. The NPC thac0 basically sucks for trying to face a commonly equipped 10th level melle fighter or higher. but he should fare well at those below that, due to the high AC protecting him from75 percent of the melee attacks facing him. He should eat up casters not suitably buffed with stoneskin/reduction/resistance, provided he doesnt get taken out by a 1st or 2nd round disabling spell. It becomes hard to guage the CR when dealing with casters for this reason alone....
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Mar 11, 2005 16:46:08 GMT -5
From my calculations, I would say that this creature should be rated as challenging for any level 8 character. I think Task did a pretty good job of characterizing by each class. BTW Task, you are just so old school with your THAC0 calculations ;D. Get with it dude, it should be THAC10 nowadays
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Post by DM Richard (Retired) on Mar 11, 2005 19:04:19 GMT -5
I was waiting for more replys but yes he did a VERY GOOD job. I'll give it a couple of more days before posting my answers.
*Mutters something about blasted tacticians*
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