Fire Knives

[piousheretic]

I've decided on what I believe would be an interesting idea; that is, a player-run cell of the dreaded assassins' guild, the Fire Knives! This is not the sort of thing I want to go in alone on, however, given that these are minor nobles we're talking about here.

I was thinking perhaps.. three nobles, and a retainer serving each?

Just make known your interest here in this post and PM me with any character ideas you might have, if any, and we'll bump heads together on this.

There will also be sets of rules we should follow. For instance, I think we should stick to one city in Cormyr and use that as our base of operations and not stay in Greatgaunt. Additionally, once a member is rumbled and is killed by Cormyrian authorities, he should stay dead save in extreme circumstances. Any other rules that I can't think of right now?

~ PH

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

There used to be an NPC fire knives hideout in the module (though it was bugged so it was eventually removed). Since the Fire Knives are source, I would suggest you seek DM approval before trying to formulate an adventuring party belonging to source. The reason being is because if you ARE a part of Fire Knives, then you have access to resources that would not normally be available.

[megascorpion]

hrrrm, and uhm, last I checked((It's the first rule listed under general rules...)) nobles were illegal to play on FRC.
If that is what you meant to do by the nobles comment. ..Just thought I'd note before anything gets made

((Then again, red wizards seem to be fine and to my knowledge, they are the nobles of Thay.))

[piousheretic]

So long as we stay as close to the lore as possible, the DMs are cool with it - or so I was told. Additionally, I feel I should qualify something.

Although the Fire Knives are generally all of noble birth, the Cormaerils and the Bleths lost their status as nobles in Cormyr due to their involvement in conspiracies against the Crown fairly recently, and it's fresh on minds of most.

Chances are, anyone in high society who caught wind that a "Bleth" or a "Cormaeril" was walking about would kill them if they found them. The Fire Knives are influential, however, as an assassin's guild because they can blend into high society.

[Savoie Faire]

So far this 'guild' does not yet have official sanction from the DM's.

Like all such attempts to create a player-run guild from official source, the players involved must do the legwork to create interest in such a guild, then develop the guild, attract members, and apply for official recognition.

Players involved should be aware of and adhere to official source, (though it's likely due to the nature of the guild they won't know as characters very much more than rumor.)

The DM's will be observing this guild startup and determining it's official status. This will take time. Players who wish to be involved in this guild should exemplify the guild as it is described in source. A group that closely follows the established lore and characterization of the guild has a much better chance of gaining DM acceptance than a group who uses the name to excuse a PvP binge.

[piousheretic]

Right now, I'm just seeing if there's any interest for this, though I will emphasize for both players and DMs that we will be adhering to what the Fire Knives are in the sourcebook as much as possible.

Rather than resorting to the RNG and to PvP for every single scenario, I'd rather have it so the guild relies more upon the instigation of court intrigue amongst Cormyrian nobles, playing the game of politics, and working towards more creative means of assassination (such as poisoning the fine bloodmoon wine that one of the Roaringhorns always drinks with his evening meal at tenday's end, for instance).

It would strike me as kind of silly for a bunch of bluebloods to venture down a well and kill kobolds, or to engage in random, meaningless PvP by calling in a hit on some commoner.

~ PH

Edit: N.B., if there isn't any interest in this, I'll probably shelve it for an idea to pursue at a later date.

[Munroe]

May 20, 2010 17:18:34 GMT -5 piousheretic said:

Edit: N.B., if there isn't any interest in this

What does N.B. mean?

[rhjmas]

Noto Bene (lat.) "Note Well", used to call attention to a footnote or other out-of-context remark.

[Lokarn]

I'm still somewhat interested in the whole.. noble concept, it seems so far that no DM has questioned the noble status that a PC Fire Knife would have.

[ancientempathy]

Why would the PC have to have a noble status?

[megascorpion]

mmmyeah, I was gona try and let it go, but is it the case then that the rule is wrong and playing nobles is fine as long as you adhere to lore((As I assume you should whatever you play))..? Or by application? Or have I misunderstood the whole thing and Pious was just saying that the DMs were ok with a fire knives sort of thing rather than them playing nobles..? I'm just curious is all heh...

And I'm still curious on the whole red wizard thing, aren't they the nobles of Thay?

[ancientempathy]

May 20, 2010 19:28:19 GMT -5 megascorpion said:

mmmyeah, I was gona try and let it go, but is it the case then that the rule is wrong and playing nobles is fine as long as you adhere to lore((As I assume you should whatever you play))..? Or by application? Or have I misunderstood the whole thing and Pious was just saying that the DMs were ok with a fire knives sort of thing rather than them playing nobles..? I'm just curious is all heh...

And I'm still curious on the whole red wizard thing, aren't they the nobles of Thay?

Thayan nobility really has no baring in Cormyr's hierarchy system. A thayan red wizard can go around harking about his status level in Thay and a Cormyrean could, essentially, not give a crap.

So in other words a thayan red wizard's 'rights' in Thay and potentancy has no impact what-so-ever in Cormyrean society. Thusly not truly making it an issue overall...This was the explanation given to me a while back ago when I was on the DM team.

When it comes to being in the enclave then I just tossed my hands up in the air and said "Lets just enjoy this and not cause headaches" LOL

Why playing a Cormyrean noble is a difficult/bad thing is because Cormyrean nobles have rights and certain powers in Cormyr that a regular adventurer would never have (therefore it'd be a huge advantage one player has over others). Whereas a professed thayan red wizard wouldn't ever amount to anything that a Cormyrean noble has in Cormyr. I'm speaking from an entirely PC-perspective-and-chair, mind you. DM intervention could change that in any given setting.

Edit: an example to the above, being, a DM may try to help a PC red wizard become a bit more influencial in the political spectrum somehow. Like allowing for a store that sells questionable contents (evil nature, or something).

[megascorpion]

I always understood the rule as 'any' nobility from anywhere was disallowed. If this isn't the case It'd be nice to have the rule clarified xD ((Had a plan to create a priest of Siamorphe or the like as well once.)) Anyhow sorry for hijacking the thread, with the rules for guilds I'd assume creating a guild from scratch would be a problem anyways however

[ancientempathy]

Its actually a very good question at least. and I've always wondered if the Knighted PC's we have in Cormyr have any established nobility rights too. It's simple to just say no. Knights are sometimes given land and other fancy things..etc etc.. And at least all of this pertains to the original OP some

[highknight]

The PC Knights of Cormyr have no granted land or nobility rights. Sir/Lady does not equal Lord/Lady. Just to clear that up.

[piousheretic]

May 20, 2010 19:23:44 GMT -5 @ancientempathy said:

Why would the PC have to have a noble status?

Fire Knives are only recruited from the Bleth/Cormaeril noble families. Otherwise you're just playing a dude who claims to be a Fire Knife instead of the real thing. The Fire Knives are, by definition, bluebloods from these families.

I should point out, and I think this point is one that has been overlooked by some of the other posters, is that the families Cormaeril and Bleth do not own any land, property, or title in Cormyr, because they've been stripped of it ever since they have been caught taking part in conspiracies against the Crown, most notably in the death of King Azoun IV a mere five years ago (see: Abraxus affair), something that is likely fresh on the mind of many in Cormyr.

I am gauging interest in this now because the guild would NOT approach some schmuck in the slums of Cormyr, and ask them if they want to join up. Given they operate out of Westgate and come from these two families, the characters would know each other at least as acquaintance before they arrive in Cormyr.

[Munroe]

May 20, 2010 19:28:19 GMT -5 megascorpion said:

mmmyeah, I was gona try and let it go, but is it the case then that the rule is wrong and playing nobles is fine as long as you adhere to lore((As I assume you should whatever you play))..? Or by application? Or have I misunderstood the whole thing and Pious was just saying that the DMs were ok with a fire knives sort of thing rather than them playing nobles..? I'm just curious is all heh...

And I'm still curious on the whole red wizard thing, aren't they the nobles of Thay?

It is against the server rules to create a character as nobility from anywhere.

Red Wizards serve the same function as nobility in Thay, but being a Red Wizard is a rank a Thayan Mulan human earns. It is not, as far as I know, an inherited title, but rather one that a character gains individually.

In that regard, playing a Red Wizard does not break the nobility rule.

[racestark]

From page 136 of Lords Of Darkness:

"Recruiting
Because most of the Fire Knives are members of the nobility, born into two elite (if tarnished) households, the organization seldom recruit far from the family tree. Although not all members of the exiled branches of House Bleth and House Cormaeril are members of the Fire Knives, many are, and they perform a variety of functions for the organization beyond killing. The Fire Knives are far more likely to hire nonfamily members into lesser positions, or engage their services on an as-needed basis."

Hope that clarifies some. But one line, "Although not all members of the exiled branches of House Bleth and House Cormaeril", makes me think that not the whole of the noble houses were exiled, but just the branches implicated. Until re-reading this entry, I thought that Bleth was completely banned and only certain Cormaerils were exiled but with a lot of land stripped from the family as a whole. I know in 4th edition that the Cormaerils have regained their noble status, insinuating that not all of that house is completely exiled (but then again, that's 4th edition and this is 3rd). And though it isn't source material, Azoun V is the son of an openly acknowledged, and disgraced, Cormaeril who serves with Alusair as a Purple Dragon scout, according to the novels Beyond the High Road and Death Of the Dragon.

[EDM Neo]

// Was it intentional to move this here?

I thought this subboard (Cormyr, the Forest Kingdom) was meant for IC posts only. This was an OOC thread to try and gauge whether or not other players would have interest in the player's group idea, and then it became a discussion about whether or not it was against server rules to play a Fire Knife.

[Munroe]

May 30, 2010 10:50:14 GMT -5 EDM Neo said:

// Was it intentional to move this here?

I thought this subboard (Cormyr, the Forest Kingdom) was meant for IC posts only. This was an OOC thread to try and gauge whether or not other players would have interest in the player's group idea, and then it became a discussion about whether or not it was against server rules to play a Fire Knife.

I don't know whether it was intentional or not, but I moved it again to Roleplay Ideas, Suggestions, and Discussions.

I don't know why it was moved to begin with honestly, but you're right about Cormyr, the Forest Kingdom being an IC forum.

[Savoie Faire]

May 20, 2010 19:13:37 GMT -5 Lokarn said:

I'm still somewhat interested in the whole.. noble concept, it seems so far that no DM has questioned the noble status that a PC Fire Knife would have.

To put it bluntly: No player in FRC will be allowed to play a noble. If this is an absolute requirement for this guild, then this guild will never be playable by PC's. I am hoping for a workaround which remains true to the source material.

May 29, 2010 17:03:03 GMT -5 racestark said:

From page 136 of Lords Of Darkness:

The Fire Knives are far more likely to hire nonfamily members into lesser positions, or engage their services on an as-needed basis.

This would seem to indicate that while the guild hierarchy would indeed be blood nobility, there are positions available for persons of lesser status.

Also, one must remember that in a feudal society, the extended family is the norm, and as in such tales as Romeo and Juliette and The Godfather, servants and hirelings are considered 'part of the family' even though they are not blood relations. It may be possible to be a non-noble henchman with ties of fealty to one or another of the true family members, or the child of a trusted servant, or any of a number of other non-noble 'family' members.

Anyway, just offering ideas. If there is enough interest in this idea of a guild, there remains much work to be done. The first task will be to create a guild concept which works in the framework of Cormyr's rules, as the rules will not be changed to allow noble PC's.

[EDM Entori]

Jun 3, 2010 20:29:42 GMT -5 Savoie Faire said:

May 20, 2010 19:13:37 GMT -5 Lokarn said:

I'm still somewhat interested in the whole.. noble concept, it seems so far that no DM has questioned the noble status that a PC Fire Knife would have.

To put it bluntly: No player in FRC will be allowed to play a noble. If this is an absolute requirement for this guild, then this guild will never be playable by PC's. I am hoping for a workaround which remains true to the source material.

May 29, 2010 17:03:03 GMT -5 racestark said:

From page 136 of Lords Of Darkness:

The Fire Knives are far more likely to hire nonfamily members into lesser positions, or engage their services on an as-needed basis.

This would seem to indicate that while the guild hierarchy would indeed be blood nobility, there are positions available for persons of lesser status.

Also, one must remember that in a feudal society, the extended family is the norm, and as in such tales as Romeo and Juliette and The Godfather, servants and hirelings are considered 'part of the family' even though they are not blood relations. It may be possible to be a non-noble henchman with ties of fealty to one or another of the true family members, or the child of a trusted servant, or any of a number of other non-noble 'family' members.

Anyway, just offering ideas. If there is enough interest in this idea of a guild, there remains much work to be done. The first task will be to create a guild concept which works in the framework of Cormyr's rules, as the rules will not be changed to allow noble PC's.

I just wanna add how I highly dislike this position on FRC. I know why it is there, but on other servers it creates SO much dynamic.

Sure you get those that yap about favoritism, but Good RP should be rewarded, and if one could give the Dark harps the mynians and the Sharita's..(speaking theoretically about quality of roleplay)

Positions of "power" The amount of Role play Perspectives enlarges Greatly.. It turns the game away from the combat directive, you get politicans and those looking to move up in the world.. Which FRC does not Cater to at all..

Sure people still play such, but their the die hard ones. and it sets a divide in FRC that says.. here is your sandbox, and here's Cormyrs sand box..

you can't really run over and attempt to destroy the castle of the NPC's

its a very stagnant atomsphere, and I feel that is why alot of guilds are stagnant...

all the good harper books is about plot, poltiics, ETc Etc etC..


and our poor harpers only get that if a DM decides to, well I think Really good Rpers should get the chance to create those sort of plots themselves.. instead of relying upon the Dm's to do it.. which regardless of what is said, is what happens..

[Deleted]

Jun 4, 2010 9:42:09 GMT -5 EDM Entori said:

Jun 3, 2010 20:29:42 GMT -5 Savoie Faire said:

To put it bluntly: No player in FRC will be allowed to play a noble. If this is an absolute requirement for this guild, then this guild will never be playable by PC's. I am hoping for a workaround which remains true to the source material.



This would seem to indicate that while the guild hierarchy would indeed be blood nobility, there are positions available for persons of lesser status.

Also, one must remember that in a feudal society, the extended family is the norm, and as in such tales as Romeo and Juliette and The Godfather, servants and hirelings are considered 'part of the family' even though they are not blood relations. It may be possible to be a non-noble henchman with ties of fealty to one or another of the true family members, or the child of a trusted servant, or any of a number of other non-noble 'family' members.

Anyway, just offering ideas. If there is enough interest in this idea of a guild, there remains much work to be done. The first task will be to create a guild concept which works in the framework of Cormyr's rules, as the rules will not be changed to allow noble PC's.

I just wanna add how I highly dislike this position on FRC. I know why it is there, but on other servers it creates SO much dynamic.

Sure you get those that yap about favoritism, but Good RP should be rewarded, and if one could give the Dark harps the mynians and the Sharita's..(speaking theoretically about quality of roleplay)

Positions of "power" The amount of Role play Perspectives enlarges Greatly.. It turns the game away from the combat directive, you get politicans and those looking to move up in the world.. Which FRC does not Cater to at all..

Sure people still play such, but their the die hard ones. and it sets a divide in FRC that says.. here is your sandbox, and here's Cormyrs sand box..

you can't really run over and attempt to destroy the castle of the NPC's

its a very stagnant atomsphere, and I feel that is why alot of guilds are stagnant...

all the good harper books is about plot, poltiics, ETc Etc etC..


and our poor harpers only get that if a DM decides to, well I think Really good Rpers should get the chance to create those sort of plots themselves.. instead of relying upon the Dm's to do it.. which regardless of what is said, is what happens..

Positions of power do not strictly rest upon the shoulders of nobles.

Positions of actual Authority do.

Darkharp has a prestigious position as an educator. The power to influence the children of nobles is more than enough for him.

[feenia125]

oh that sounds fun.