Dwarven Battle Ragers

[Kharn597]

I'm looking for rp and suggested build type to do a Dwarven battle rager. I biggest question is can a dwarven battle rager wear armor cause i am pretty sure King Bruenor's body guard who was one wore spiked platemail(might of been a little creaky but he liked sending shivers down his enemies spines)?

I'm thinking concentrating on the barbarian class could do a good battle rager.

Any comments or advice?

[breckis]

There was already a battlerager on the server from what I heard... or maybe he was just another dwarven myth... Oh well. He's Griv Spikerash, and as for what was his class mixes... I don't even want to think about it, scary really. But if you hang about long enough, the guy who played should be able to guide you.

As for Bruenor's battle ragers, they would be an odd thing to make. Since they fought with their bodies and spent most of the grappling and tearing enemies apart with their armor. So since we don't really have a grapple check system on NWN, none that I know anyway, its doubtfull you'll be capable of accomplishing this feat.

[Talus]

Well to get around the fact they used their armor as there weapons, you could weapon focus in hand to hand then buy some spiked gloves. Yeah definetily focus on barbarian. Other than that, just make him as outlandish as possible. I guess I would do a fighter/Barbarian mix, or just barbarian, and take the heavy armor feat. Don't see much else you would need build wise, the RP would be the interesting part, and why your in Cormyr and such. I look forward to seeing your battle rager.

[moulinous]

why not a monk who uses his body as a weapon right? i mean, who says all monks gotto be lithe and quiet and all the other crap you here about monks...why not a monk who is really a battlerager? i think the monks abilities lend themselves to the battleragers ways pretty good? as for armor though, some use spikled armor and such...but others went about naked. I think that might be a good way to go.

[Talus]

moulinous said:

why not a monk who uses his body as a weapon right? i mean, who says all monks gotto be lithe and quiet and all the other crap you here about monks...why not a monk who is really a battlerager? i think the monks abilities lend themselves to the battleragers ways pretty good? as for armor though, some use spikled armor and such...but others went about naked. I think that might be a good way to go.

One problem I see with this, is alignment. I don't really see a battlerager being lawful.

[Gabusta]

talus said:

moulinous said:

why not a monk who uses his body as a weapon right? i mean, who says all monks gotto be lithe and quiet and all the other crap you here about monks...why not a monk who is really a battlerager? i think the monks abilities lend themselves to the battleragers ways pretty good? as for armor though, some use spikled armor and such...but others went about naked. I think that might be a good way to go.

One problem I see with this, is alignment. I don't really see a battlerager being lawful.

Why not? A person obeying the law can get angry too, right?

[Talus]

talus said:

Well to get around the fact they used their armor as there weapons, you could weapon focus in hand to hand then buy some spiked gloves. Yeah definetily focus on barbarian. Other than that, just make him as outlandish as possible. I guess I would do a fighter/Barbarian mix, or just barbarian, and take the heavy armor feat. Don't see much else you would need build wise, the RP would be the interesting part, and why your in Cormyr and such. I look forward to seeing your battle rager.

Had another thought. You could use Knockdown to simulate the grapple then your free hits would be the rolling around on them with the spikey armor.

The more I think about this the more I think you should go with just Barbarian, and use a spikey breastplate.

[Talus]

chenauth said:

talus said:

One problem I see with this, is alignment. I don't really see a battlerager being lawful.

Why not? A person obeying the law can get angry too, right?

True, but what we are talking about is someone that enters a blood thirsty rage in battle and does things in battle that even make most dwarves uncomfortable. I don't see that as particularly lawful and disciplined. I could be wrong just my take on it. Alignment is one of the more difficult aspects of any character.

[Kharn597]

I did find what looked like a prestiage class online. It appears pretty much a barbarian that can use heavy armor. Seems like the main difference between a battle rager and a barbarian is the use of heavy armor and they almost always go bezerk in battles. I haven't read anything saying a Battle rager can't use weapons, cause I can also see one using a great axe or duel axes or something of the mix. I do though see one not being lawful. Lawful in my opinion would have more control over thier power in battle. A raging battle rager sounds like he knows no difference between ally and enemy just being in a blind rage.

Website I found this on trdenno.tripod.com/dnd/prestigeclasses/battlerager.htm .

****************************************************************************************************************
Battle-Rager



The Battle-Rager fills a particular niche in dwarf society and culture. He is a fearless warrior, able to create an insane rage within himself which increases his fighting ability and distorts his physical features. While enraged, a Battle-Rager¡¦s face becomes twisted and his teeth grind together.

Spittle flies from his mouth and dribbles down his beard. His eyes enlarge,

bulge, and become bloodshot. Size increases (by an inch or so) as his muscles swell and his body expands.

His fighting ability becomes awesome, allowing him to fight longer and

harder than any other dwarf. While in his rage, he is almost unstoppable.

A dangerous enemy, he is a menace to friend and foe alike.



REQUIREMENTS

To qualify to become a Battle-Rager, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Race: Dwarf

Base Attack Bonus: +6

Feats: Cleave, Great Cleave, Sunder



Hit Dice: d12

Class Skills: The Battle-Rager¡¦s class skills (and key ability for each) are Climb (Str),

Intimidate (Cha), and Jump.

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Intelligence Modifier

Class Features: The following are class features of the Battle-Rager prestige class.

Weapon and Armor ProƒOcency: A Battle-Rager is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, and shields.

Furious Rage: A Battle-Rager are able to enter a furious killing rage which endangers friend and foe alike. They have no control over it. Anytime one feels insulted, threatened, or when in combat, he will bellow a battle song at the top of his lung. After 1d4 rounds during which he can fight or perform other activities, he enters rage. A Battle-Rager can attempt to prevent a Rage by making a Willpower Save (DC20). If he fails the check

he enters the rage. In a rage, a Battle-Rager gains phenomenal strength and durability but becomes reckless and less able to defend himself. He temporarily gains +4 to Strength, +4 to Constitution, and a +2 morale bonus on Will saves, but suffers a -2 penalty to AC.

The increase in Constitution increases the Battle-Rager¡¦s hit points by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the rage when the Constitution score drops back to normal. These extra hit points are not lost first, the way temporary hit points are. While raging, a Battle-Rager cannot use skills or abilities that require patience and concentration, such as moving silently or casting spells. (The only class skills he can¡¦t use while raging are Craft, Handle Animal, and Intuit Direction.) He can use any feat he might have except for Expertise, item creation feats, meta-magic feats, and Skill Focus (if it¡¦s tied to a skill that requires patience or concentration). A fit of rage lasts until all his foes lay dead. At the end of the rage, the Battle-Rager is fatigued (-2 to Strength, -2 to Dexterity, can¡¦t charge or run) The Battle-Rager can only fly into a rage once per

encounter, and only a certain number of times per day (determined by level). Entering a rage takes no time itself, but the Battle-Rager can only do it during his action (see Initiative, page 120), not in response to somebody else¡¦s action. A Battle-Rager can¡¦t, for example, fly into a rage when struck down by an arrow in order to get the extra hit points from the increased Constitution, although the extra hit points would be of benefit if he had gone into a rage earlier in the round, before the arrow struck.

During a rage the Battle-Rager is oblivious to pain. The Dungeon Master

should not reveal the amount of damage the Battle-Rager takes while in Rage.

The Battle-Rager can attempt to end his rage by making a Will Save (DC

20).

Starting at 5th level, the Battle-Rager¡¦s rage bonuses become +6 to Strength, +6 to Constitution, and a +3 morale bonus to Will saves. (The AC penalty remains at -2.)

Stubborn Will: Add this resistance bonus to the Battle-Rager¡¦s Will saves.

Toughness: The Battle-Rager gains the Toughness feat .

[moulinous]

i see many barabrains as being lawful in respects to the way their society is laid out personally. I do see your take but a rage that is unleashed could easily be attrubited to a lawaful pc. Look at organized serial killers. they live lawful, nowmral lives. heck, bundy was easily lawful in my book but he was capable of terrific rages. I think that would be true in the dwarven sense as dwarfs are foma lawful society with many rules, and a dwarf capable of great rages would be looked uponas still amember of the clan first. Bruenors bodyguards were too close to the king to not be lawful...

[Munroe]

Regardless of whether a battlerager could be Lawful (I would say 'no'), a monk is more than simply Lawful. Monks are defined by one word: Discipline. They are not simply lawful, the entire class is built on codes of conduct, rigorous regimented training, and the goal of self-perfection through social, emotional, and martial control.

Basically the monk class is everything the battlerager is not. I would say barbarian/fighter would be the best class combo for the character concept as I read it.

[moulinous]

Discipline comes in many forms...to me a monks Ki could be released in the way a rage is realized. I have seen people get "fighting mad" it is a scary thing to see. And it has happened time in and time out to people who would be considered lawful.
When they are training the battleragers in the book the Siege i think its called, they go through a rigorous training exercise.
Now some monks do go through a control of sorts that we consider normal while the rager goes into a control that we do not. To be able to attack in a homicidal rage and, unlike the barbarians, control it to attack only what is not dwarf? that is control. That is also control to pull oneself together. Everyone seems to see monks as one way and way only, kung fu style Asians like mister mogai from karate kid. But controlled chaos is also a discipline, a greater control in reality is needed to be able to control it really. Yes they can be smelly and nasty...but also ragers do not hafta be. A kings bodyguard? why would they be nasty? they are near their king. anyhow, i think a monk with his special abilities lends itself perfect to the rager class just because of the things that have been mentioned.

[heimdall]

Monks and Battleragers are not compatable concepts in any way shape or form. The style of a battlerager is chaos. The style of a monk is discipline, focus and order.

Why not? A person obeying the law can get angry too, right?

There is a difference between getting angry and going berserk on friend and foe alike...a very BIG difference.

A dangerous enemy, he is a menace to friend and foe alike.

if you are RPing a battle rager I had best see you attacking anyone around you during the periods of your rage, friend or foe.

Fighter/Barbarian with a focus on unarmed combat is the way you would want to go to "build" this concept. There are no established monk orders for dwarves. Monks are lawful, battle-ragers are not.

You may not "like" alignment but it exists and it exists for a reason. Thus you should take careful thought before you select the alignment of your character.

[moulinous]

Alignment only exist as a guideline as stated in every book ever written on which this game is based. We have alignment in NWN for one reason and that it is easy to make a rule about it. Not many people i know take alignment truly into effect if it is played always and perfectly. Why would a LG PC ever try and raid and adventure at all if properly p[laying their alignment? Should they only go after the undead or try to save and convert a kobold? Narrow focus in my humble i know nothing opinion is what makes NWN so limiting at times. There is no order of dwarf based monks? What about the dwarf in the single game itself? If a monk lifestyle is all about discipline, what about the Hins that have a monk group...is there another race as seemingly care free as the Hins? yet they are monks? If we are going to limit something then should not all the champions of Torm be followers of Torm? what about those hat claim they are using it as a divine champion type thing? are they using their deity's favored weapon? I despise the monks class and hate it being in the NWN world...but it does lend itself well to a battle rager who of tens do not wear armor, who often performs things that only one who has complete control over his body can do, and who of tens fights as a bodygaurd...but any hows, i am not a Dm so everything i bring up here is moot...only fighter/barbarians as battle ragers...

[Kharn597]

I'm am just curious, where is it in fluff or lore that a Battle Rager can't either duel wield or wield a two hand weapon? All it seems is battle ragers go into bezerk state attacking like everything, and it seems more likely that a battle rager would be either duel wield or two weapon to do his fighting then unarmed.

One of the dwarven gods btw does have monk followers on another thing.

[heimdall]

No one has said you cannot duel wield or wield a two handed weapon so I'm not too sure where that's coming from.

[Talus]

heimdall said:

No one has said you cannot duel wield or wield a two handed weapon so I'm not too sure where that's coming from.

I think it was presented in one of Salvatore's books that they jumped into piles of orcs and thrashed around using their armor basically as there weapon. No reason you have to follow that. I just threw out some ideas on how you could do it.

Oh and by all means my ideas were that just ideas. I personally don't see why you couldn't build a fairly standard Barbarian/Fighter Dwarf and just RP him as a battle rager.

[Manshin]

Im with you talus. Anyone who has ever so much as taken a karate class knows that the root of all martial arts is to remain calm and thinking in a fight. The greatest masters reach a state of zen or perfect calm in battle as if they were in a simple sparring match rather than a life or death contest. A battle rager is more like the guy at the bar who says "When I get pissed, I just go crazy!" So, though I liked the idea of dwarves channeling their KI through differant ways, Id have to say it goes against every fundamental that the monk is about to have that KI be represented by a berserker rage.

In my own campain, there is a group of Battleragers. These dwarves are trained, or... "bred" as a last resort weapon to use against overwhellming enemies. The Battleragers are "set loose" in the tunnels of their home to hunt down orcs in gorilla style warfare. The only requirements I have for them is that they "tend" to use either two handed weapons or duel wield. This is because they have "no" reguard for personal saftey WHEN IN BATTLE and think only of hurting their opponents. A shield is defensive, and thus unneccesary. To a battle rager, the best defense is a good offense... which translated into dwarven means: KILL EM' ALL!

My personal opinion is that a battlerager should be a barbarian with a possible early cross with ranger to represent tracking enemies and a special hatred for orcs. Fighter should never be taken as it represents dicipline and training rather than raw fury. Few Ranger levels should ever be taken as a battlerager would never have use for spells or the other special abilities a Ranger gets later in his advancment. Light to medium armor should be worn to represent a battleragers desire to cover large distances seeking out his prey without hinderance.

I do like the idea of having spikey armor, and as such... for all of you battleragers out there, I think it would be reasonable to have spiked armor (and the matching gauntlets) which would allow you to get some piercing damage with your unarmed attacks. I would be happy to show you what one of my battleragers looks like if you are looking for any other feedback, though all the crap I said above is only my opinion. There is a battlerager bregade in FRC that I sent to Justi.

One last note. Dwarves tend to be chums, or so it seems.. however with battleragers, this is not the case. Battleragers are outcasts, even in dwarven eyes. They will get respect, but "distant" respect. They stink, they are fowl tempered, beligerant, dumb, and have 0 use for social edicate. Even taking into acount the "Salvatore" dwarf which is essentially a beligerant drunken Scottsman with a bad temper, battle ragers go beyond what is acceptable. These dwarves are bred into conflict and made feral for only one purpose. Social interaction with other dwarves is not it. So, battleragers probably bond fiercely with one another, but pretty much, not with ANYONE else. They are basically badgers with rabbies in the form of dwarves.

Manshin

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

And they dont take crap or orders from anyone but their king ... that to me sounds kinda chaotic ...

[Mr. Baboon]

So... sorry to bring up this old topic... but Griv Spikewrash, my ancient character (the first I made on this server... 2.5 years ago!?) was mentioned.

To discuss what was mentioned here - duel weilding and weilding weaponry - from the 3.0 Races of Faerun, under the actual Battlerager class, it says that the Dwarves word for Battlerager was "Kul'zar" (or something similiar), which translated to "Axe Idiot" - someone who went berserk with there weapons on whatever was on hand, as long as they killed them.

If someone else wants to post up the exact quote, feel free, but that was the gist of it.

[Theo]

Battleragers weren't intended to be a class that uses spiked armor any more than fighters were all intended to get Improved Unarmed Strike and leave all physical stats as low as possible.

Just use a greataxe.