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Post by grokan on Apr 17, 2007 19:06:49 GMT -5
I've been chewing over this one for a while, ever since I saw a situation some weeks ago, and something that happened recently brought it back fresh to my mind.
Why do characters that are racist against a certain other race know that race's racial language?
No, really. Think about it. In real life, if you're racist against Spanish people (just an example, don't get mad)... you wouldn't put the time and effort into learning "that gibberish those damn Spanish speak". In my opinion, racism also requires a little bit of ignorance, and taking the time to learn a language requires a bit of tolerance, which a racist isn't going to have. After all, who are they going to learn the language from? Most likely from someone they hate, either because they are of the race they hate, or because they don't like that the person that knows the language is friends with the race they hate.
People, please, if you hate elves, don't learn elven. It really doesn't make sense. Maybe if you were half-elf, and grew up in a mixed settlement, and for some reason hate elves... But a human, or halfling, or dwarf hating elves but knowing their language? There's no decent RP excuse for it. Same goes for any other language. If you grew up hating orcs because you were traumatized by an orc raid on your home town... don't learn orc.
Open for discussion... I realize my opinion isn't the only one on this matter.
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Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Apr 17, 2007 19:17:37 GMT -5
three words for you
know your enemy
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Post by grokan on Apr 17, 2007 19:31:06 GMT -5
That's all fine, and it *does* make a bit of sense...
Unfortunately, racists aren't known for their sense when dealing with the people they hate.
And I opened it for discussion, not for someone to make a comment that is supposed to completely nullify my arguments. Know your enemy is fine, but not every racist is going to have the tolerance to.
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Post by rpchallenged on Apr 17, 2007 19:33:05 GMT -5
Sort of agree with Vxrazzen on this. I can definitely see potential RP reasons for a pc knowing a hated race's language. Most likely those who are/were somehow involved in intelligence gathering, scouting, or just general subterfuge, and that sort of thing. I do agree that every person and their brother most likely wouldn't speak it though. It should still be properly RP'd in those situations, it isn't exactly subtle or smart to start speaking in that hated tongue and blowing a good source of free information. It's amazing the things people will say when they don't know someone sitting there can speak that language.
quick edit.. yes, I do agree that not all racist would be willing to learn the language and some would display the traits you describe.
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Post by grokan on Apr 17, 2007 19:39:27 GMT -5
it isn't exactly subtle or smart to start speaking in that hated tongue and blowing a good source of free information. It's amazing the things people will say when they don't know someone sitting there can speak that language. Ok, I'll give you the subterfuge argument. But as you just said, the person in question isn't likely to start spewing insults in the hated tongue, or otherwise reveal that they even know the language. That would defeat the point of knowing the language in the first place, which they probably had to swallow back a lot of bile to even learn in the first place. |
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Post by rpchallenged on Apr 17, 2007 19:57:09 GMT -5
it isn't exactly subtle or smart to start speaking in that hated tongue and blowing a good source of free information. It's amazing the things people will say when they don't know someone sitting there can speak that language. Ok, I'll give you the subterfuge argument. But as you just said, the person in question isn't likely to start spewing insults in the hated tongue, or otherwise reveal that they even know the language. That would defeat the point of knowing the language in the first place, which they probably had to swallow back a lot of bile to even learn in the first place. I tend to agree with you on that one. A creative player could RP that and make it believable, but it sounds like it was just bad form. If a traumatic event later in a characters life changed their views of a race, it's entirely possible that they may have learned the language before the event, and only now display the hatred you describe. That would reasonably explain both. |
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Myth
Old School
Retired FRC DM
The Myth
Posts: 686
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Post by Myth on Apr 17, 2007 19:58:16 GMT -5
My two cents and my view in such (as I've only lately managed to do myself) is -don't- worry yourself and don't trouble your mind at what others do. If they have their fun that way, it's their problem. As long as they follow the rules of the server it's up to them.
This applies to many other "problems" we might encounter but from my experience I believe that we have -way- more fun if we just take our minds off the others and enjoy our characters and RP.
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Post by Aodhan the Unusual on Apr 17, 2007 20:01:41 GMT -5
One thing you have to think about is this: What if that person didn't start out hating that race? What if they were once great friends with the people of said race, learned the language, and the friendship fell apart?
There are many reasons a racist person might learn or know a language. One of the managers at a restraunt I used to work in hated Mexican people with a passion, but he learned enough Spanish so that he could get the work done that was needed while he was there.
True, most people that are racists are ignorant pricks, but some are well educated and still don't like the race for one reason or another. It's just a fact of life.
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Post by moulinous on Apr 17, 2007 20:08:19 GMT -5
there are a 1001 reasons for someone to have whatever their pc has. whether you,i or bob the baker agrees with it....it is THEIR pc and while i may agree on the gist of what you are saying....it is not for us to decide what someone elses pc knows or has been through. just my two coppers is all...
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Mehangel
New Member
Acolyte of Rillifane Rallathil: The True Oak Green
Posts: 88
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Post by Mehangel on Apr 17, 2007 20:18:11 GMT -5
There are infact as mentioned several reasons to learn the language of the race you do not like. One of which may include, How better the insult if done in their language, or Even better, Purposely mispronounce a word in their vocabulary, It could add flavor to any taunt. This tactic was used in R.A. Salvatore's Sojourn by Drizzt against the Giant, or was it Orge, either way, it catches the attention of the enemy quickly if you can talk to it.
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Post by squidly on Apr 18, 2007 11:33:00 GMT -5
there are a 1001 reasons for someone to have whatever their pc has. whether you,i or bob the baker agrees with it....it is THEIR pc and while i may agree on the gist of what you are saying....it is not for us to decide what someone elses pc knows or has been through. just my two coppers is all... *bookmarks moulinous's reply so he can post a link in all the rants moulinous has posted about pg'rs and such* He he he..  |
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Post by moulinous on Apr 18, 2007 13:31:12 GMT -5
kinda think there is a big difference between what he is saying about character development and what i said about powergaming...guilty conscience by chance about pg?LOL |
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Post by squidly on Apr 18, 2007 13:56:42 GMT -5
kinda think there is a big difference between what he is saying about character development and what i said about powergaming...guilty conscience by chance about pg?LOL *shrugs* That's called misdirection. It's where we attempt to direct the point away from ourselves so others ignore what was said about us. There are a ton of books about it in regards to interpersonal relationships. It's a way of avoiding the issue when someone says something about us we don't like. We say something about them without addressing the issue that was pointed out. That way we dont have to look at, or answer for our own behavior. Really though, it isnt that different depending on perspective. What this person see's as a distracting issue, may or may not be that big a deal to you or me, but when they ask for discussion, we all owe it them and the server to provide insightful answers that further the discussion. Unfortunately, this isnt always the case, and way too many are willing to post stuff that really adds nothing to the discussion. This isnt directed at you Moul. Just throwing this out there so perhaps people will be more thoughtful about what they post in response to questions like this. If you don't care about what they're asking, then skip the topic and move on. If you have something meaningful to say that adds to the discussion "AND HELPS WITH THE BETTERMENT OF RP FOR ALL", then please chime in. Sorry for the hijack Grokan. |
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Post by ShadowCatJen on Apr 18, 2007 14:33:00 GMT -5
There's also a OOC factor to consider with all this. When a PC gets taken through the language selection part sometimes, due to where the character is from or what race they are, they don't end up with very many choices to add to their language list. Sometimes going with the angle that the PC may know some words in that language is enough to have to take the token.
However, on the other side, a person who's got that token needs to make sure that if it's just a few words and phrases they know to reflect that in their RP. It's not impossible for a person to just select a few words and phrases that he/she may pick up and ignore the full context of what is said. For example:
Elven Orc Hater has an Orc language token and is speaking to Half-Orc Person.
Elven Orc Hater: What's a pig face like you doing in town? Don't you need to go find your sty?
Half-Orc Person: *stares down at Orc Hater* (in Orc) Gods, not another pointy-eared hating twig to have to deal with. Just because my birth mother was....
Elven Orc Hater: *slowly mouthing the words "pointy-eared" in Orcish* Hey! I understood that! Figures some uncivilized lout like yourself would respond with nothing but insults. Be off with you!
Half-Orc Person: *walking off in disgust still speaking in Orc* Tempus, give me patience to put up with idiots like this.
Elven Orc Hater: *mouths the word for idiot in Orc* Ha! Another insult! That's all he can utter!
Elven Orc Hater's Friend (who also has Orc token): *looks flatly at Elven Orc Hater* You are an idiot. *heads after Half-Orc Person* Battle Brother, wait!
Someone can easily have it that even though they have the token, that they can only understand parts of the language. Not too many tend to RP it that way.
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Post by moulinous on Apr 18, 2007 16:25:16 GMT -5
hey there grokan, i did chime in with something helpful in the beginning and stated that though i do agree with the gist of what the original poster said, i stated that we as players of our own pcs do not have the right to decree what another pc does with their pc. Then, thinking that someone was joking about what i have said and still say about power gamers, as stated by many others on this forum and was not in this discussion till you brought it up, was that do you have a guilty conscience? I also made sure to add a lol and a wink as a joke for i thought it was indeed one...apprently i was wrong and it is an attack and a poor one. If you would like to pm me instead of attack me on the boards...feel free. as for the juvenile attempt to psycho analyze me, yippee! where is the couch, Sigmund? When i have disagreed with someone i normally send them a pm. If it is a personal attack, i definitely send them a pm. So if you have dirty laundry you wish to air, please, by all means do so. I stand behind what i say and even when i have ranted, i normally apologize for my behavior and/or delete the post if i think or have it pointed out to me that it was in error or anger. Of course, this is just a subtle attempt to misdirect so i will not have to answer for my behaviour....*shrugs*...
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Apr 18, 2007 16:51:52 GMT -5
Like sand in the hour glass ... *ka-chink*
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