Player and Guild Housing -- Discussion

[DM Justicar - Creator of FRC]

Many players have been asking for player housing (and guilds) lately and I would like to talk about this. This is a very complicated issue so forgive me if I further complicate it, but I need to make this known:

There are many players who currently deserve housing or guilds and aren't getting them at this moment (that is to say right away). FRC is a huge module and we have been adding to it recently in an attempt to "finish" the module for the betterment of it as a whole and for the community at large.

Recently we have seen our player base explode and this is wonderful. It might seem like we are giving some players the "cold shoulder" on housing but this simply isn't the case. The reality is that we are reviewing current housing/guild standards and are in the process of assessing the best course of action for the community.

Our current server seems to be able to handle a load of 150 MB's spread over 50+ players at any given time. Right now we are at that capacity without adding any new fluff to the module like new guilds or player housing. The things we have been adding are for everyone to enjoy, simply put.

It is not our intention to disclude anyone from player housing or a well thought guild but it is imperative that we spend remaining module resources wisely in the pursuit.

Let me be plain... player housing isn't just for level 15 players with enough cash... in fact, that has been sending the wrong message all along. Player housing moving forward will be for outstanding members of the community only. And while I am sure EVERYONE believes themselves to be just that it will be determined by the DM team as to who is deserving of player housing moving forward.

There are those who have requested merchant shops, as well as housing... these requests will be dealt with in the most timely manner possible while reflecting on the most pressing concerns of:

1) Is this a player (or group of players) who has shown a commitment to FRC and will stick around? This is to say we aren't going to give housing to someone who has been on the server for a few months no matter who they are. The players who have houses currently on FRC have been here for years. Years.

2) It's not about gold. Running up to the nearest DM and saying you have enough gold and demand housing is kind of like begging for a quest. It will be looked upon poorly. Players must consider that real people (not gnomes) are building these houses for you and we are busy. We will get to them as soon as possible and at our leisure.

Try and remember this is a game and you don't pay us to play on FRC. We keep the server going and expanding out of the goodness and love of the game in our hearts and not because you just killed your 1,003rd Ogre and finally got enough fake in game cash. We are watching our player base and typically if you deserve a house you will get one.

3) We are trying to expand player housing/guilds but we have concerns as builders previously mentioned. We want to give all the deserving players houses but they are going to have to reflect the module's size and depth. Think player apartments/condos/bungalows.

REGARDING GUILDS...

If your guild purpose has already been covered by another guild you are unlikely to achieve a presence on the server. Look to join an existing guild if yours would "fold" onto the existing one under typical circumstances.

Otherwise adventurers are welcome to establish adventuring companies that are not guilds but represent a broader concern of players. For example... if you are a druid and want to form a group of protectors of a particular forest, please do so in a role-played fashion. If it sticks and the DM's see it works we will probably INVITE you to become a guild. I hope that makes sense.

Folks, we are trying to accommodate everyone. Please understand that we have genuine concerns that keep the server and the world moving forward and we are trying to accomplish everything we can as soon as we are able. I truly hope nobody feels slighted by this and we are going to try and get every deserving player a house and a guild as best we can but it must be left to DM discretion at this time.

[Toreavamp]

A few thoughts from a builder on this topic, well on area building in general not just housing. What I've observed from what I've explored you got a pretty good connection given the many areas you got and especially the sizes. Actually sizes of the areas you have might be something to consider looking into. Also some areas are pretty placeables heavy. What's even worse about the placeables, some are set to useable without actually having need of being it. Also I've notised one double area, Ainur has been informed about this one, but chance is there might be a few more out there.

On the specific about player housing, from me as player. It's cool ! Actually it's beyond cool, especially at a server like here because it would be used I'm sure. It is also a way to keep players, I think at least. It gives them a home and something to build up there character around. You mention the time required. Is it possible to let people build on their own, it could take off some of the workload which can be alot. Simply give out the basic guidelines. Another option is to have some pretty standard houses/apartments/what ever, to let players have until a given place is build.
Having to have spend years on a server to get a house is a little bit discouraging I must say though, even I fully understand the wish to be certain it's some with commitment for the server.

Love
Hanne

PS: I hope I'm making just a little bit of sense even if it's 1 pm and I still haven't slept. Also if you need an extra hand I'd be more than interested in minor buildingstuff.

[Masterbard Alyster Darkharp]

Hmmm, I can't help but feel slightly discouraged knowing that it will be years before I could even possibly set up an actual shop, since it has been the focus of my roleplay since a few weeks after starting on FRC. I have two questions about this just to clear the air.
1) Is FRC1 going to last that long? Or is it in the cards for FRC1 to be shut down when FRC 2 is operational? I would hate to continue on the path I am on as a character if it is completely futile.
2) What is it about player housing that is so resource intensive as compared to any other non-player owned area...say, an abandoned house or cave with nothing in it?

Feanorre

[TermaForever]

feanorre said:

Hmmm, I can't help but feel slightly discouraged knowing that it will be years before I could even possibly set up an actual shop, since it has been the focus of my roleplay since a few weeks after starting on FRC. I have two questions about this just to clear the air.
1) Is FRC1 going to last that long? Or is it in the cards for FRC1 to be shut down when FRC 2 is operational? I would hate to continue on the path I am on as a character if it is completely futile.
2) What is it about player housing that is so resource intensive as compared to any other non-player owned area...say, an abandoned house or cave with nothing in it?

Feanorre

An area is an area regardless of what is there. Its going to take up a certain amount of space. And assuming you want your house to look decent, its going to need time and effort to build and make it feel homey. As someone who has worked off and on with the toolset for a couple of years, I know personally that it can be a bit of a hassle making things look just right.


As for my own opinion on this, I would have to say that even though the outlook is bleak, its still nice that houses are given on actual merit rather than the way I'm use to seeing them elsewhere. While this topic doesn't effect me much because A) I've been on here a grand total of 2 1/2 months and B) I have no intention of getting a horse let alone a house in the near future. However. I do hope that something can be figured out to facillitate some form of player housing, though I will not cry for too long if it simply can't be done without sacrificing everything else.

[SlothfulCat]

Houses, like inns... tend to be placable heavy.

So give an example: a 4x4 house might be all of say 100kbs, add in two couches, table 4 chairs and a few placables and its now closer to 220kbs, add in rugs, planters etc etc, and soon you'll be in the .5MB range.

With FRC at 150MBs already... just think of another .5MBs per player house, about the same for a player store since the merchant should balance out any lack in placables.

[DM Justicar - Creator of FRC]

I think you guys are missing the point. I am saying that we are trying to get houses to players as soon as possible. I didn't think was too difficult to understand. I am not saying that moving forward players will need to spend years to get a house. I am saying that the current houses on the server are players who have been here for years.

Players who get houses will have to show a commitment to FRC though. We are not going to hand them out to those who request them just because they are requested. Those who show or continue to show a commitment to role-playing and FRC will get a house as soon as possible.

Asking us to examine the rest of the module to make room for player housing is moot. We are constantly reviewing the module for points of improvement and ways we can streamline. Player housing will be granted but it will be modest and sensible.

I have stated and I mean that FRC will exist as long as it is viable. We will support the module to the very end. It will co-exist beside FRC2 and once the vast majority of players have crossed over to FRC2 we will see if it makes sense to close it.

Feonorre, regarding your comments... if you feel your efforts are futile you are on the wrong server. Role-playing is it's own reward. Continue to role-play well and you will get more than you imagined.

On your second question player housing is content that is generally used by one or a very small group of people. I think that you will find that FRC has very few empty areas. An area is an area and player housing takes resources because it is just that and must be filled with objects to make it interesting for that player, IE a house. If you just want empty real estate that's not really a house, it's just a void on the server with your name on it. Having said this if we gave housing to every player who requested it we would quickly have 100+ new areas so I stick by the fact that we have to be somewhat selective to give it to players who demonstrate they are here for the right reasons and will be sticking around.

Anyway, I hope that clears things up a bit.

[Toreavamp]

mjolnirsbane said:

Asking us to examine the rest of the module to make room for player housing is moot. We are constantly reviewing the module for points of improvement and ways we can streamline. Player housing will be granted but it will be modest and sensible.

Oh no no, it wasn't how I meant it all either. It was more of a general observation, nothing else.

And the offer still stand, if you're in need of an extra hand I wouldn't mind at all doing some building. If you want to know more about my experience or just plain tell me I'm a silly blonde girl (which anyway is the truth ) and give me a no, just PM me.

Love
Hanne

PS: And again, sorry if I make little sense, I'm running at my 27th hour of no sleep, from playing. But I'll go now so there'll be no more meaningless ramblings from me for a while.

[marklar]

there is tons of empty places in FRC that you can RP that it is your home, i do it. i RP that a place in a forest is marklar's, same can easily be done for most players. if you want a cabin, find a place, say it's the future home of your cabin once you have the supplies to build it. perhaps if you do this long enough you'll get noticed by a DM and eventually you might get a treat, and if not *shrugs* couldn't hurt, could it?

[moulinous]

rpchallenged said:

In the interest of space, would shared player housing solve any of this? I can see were certain groups who have been RP'ing together might get access to something similar to an inn that would require a key/ token for entrance. Guess it would be similar to guild housing, but without all the guild benefits or requirements. It would be a reward for those who have shown some commitment, but not as permanent as a dedicated house for each player. Wouldnt have to be huge, something as simple as the design of the barracks in Isinhold, or the PDK outpost on the road to Redmist without the merchant would do. It wouldnt be much, but it would be home.

Say those who are RPing/adventuring in the Hullack regurlary as a group could have access to a building or area in a certain hidden town once they have proven their dedication to it. Or members of certain faiths could be given a key to a common room in a temple, and maybe a key to a persistant chest for just that PC. If the PC continues to show their commitment, then they could graduate to their own house once their status and space permitted if that's what they wanted.

Just a thought. It would give people who show commitment a small, easily monitored/ revoked reward, while also providing a sense of community to those of similar faiths and philosophies.

this is still being discussed i think by the dms as it was suggested a bit ago and no i aint a dm,lol, just know it is...but I remember when the Banites always hung out in a certain Inn...there is alot of Inns that people do not use...Marsember....Dhedulk...Waymoot...alot of places. Find an Inn, use it as your guys main hang out, think Central Perk on freinds or Toms Diner on Seinfeld...hell Cheers on Cheers. It aint hard to do...I know me and some others found a place in the Underdark that we are thinking of renovating as aa small main hall for us...no dms, just rp.

I have been on this server for years...so has Kam and several others...it sometimes takes a long time to get something. It took Kam a long time to get his boat...like 2 years. And he is a DM! Being a permant part of FRC is awesome, heck, i am proud that there is a dog named after me even. and i hate the mangy mutt ig but love it outside of the game. I think Justy is just trying to tell us to chill and he will get to it as it is feasible...he does have his own life and remember we pay a grand total of zilch to play here so lets wait to see when he is ready and all that.
Hope i did not rant too much, have not had my nappy,lol.

[heimdall]

moulinous said:

heck, i am proud that there is a dog named after me even. and i hate the mangy mutt ig but love it outside of the game.

Actually, that dog died a very nasty death. But it was fun while it lasted.

[moulinous]

Bastard! you killed kenny!

[Masterbard Alyster Darkharp]

I don't think my roleplay is futile..I am not going anywhere, neither is my merchant career. I was meaning will FRC1 be around for a long enough time for me to ever be gotten to on player housing. By futile I meant were my attempts to gain property futile. If I never get so much as a stall to sell from I'll keep doing what I am doing now, I might be able to go to some other server and get a house or shop or whatever, but..it wouldn't be FRC..and it wouldn't be the same. I understand there are probably a whole lot of people ahead of me, so far I have done most business under the ever popular 'lucky tree' in Isenhold. I guess I'll pack it up and move to another spot I have had in mind and start advertising it as my new selling ground.

[ShadowCatJen]

As several pointed out above, you most certainly can have one of the inns as just a place you and your "fellow members" like to meet and speak. Do so on enough of a regular basis and one day you might log in and suddenly see that extra seats were put, or a new room was added that has some personal touches connected with your characters. All that, because you stuck to your guns with roleplaying it out and the DMs took notice.

And, just because your character doesn't have thier own little place doesn't mean that you can't keep doing what you are doing. I have my character do her tailoring in the corner of Garrot's shop. Her not having her own place hasn't stopped her from doing what she usually does. Nor should that stop anyone else.

Please understand what our current dilemma is.

We've had an influx of some really good roleplayers recently. This usually isn't normal. Mostly we'll get a rush of new players from another server that went down and we'll get one, maybe two good ones from the lot. Not this time. This time I've seen some very impressive roleplaying from those newer in the community and I am most certainly grateful for it. It's great to see.

However, longevity of playtime aside, how do you determine for certain who should get housing and who shouldn't when the quality of roleplay has been good all over? Would we like to see all the players with their own personal spaces on the server as a reward for the roleplay we've seen them do? Yes. Is it feasible to do so with the time, manpower, and resources we have? No.

We're not being picky because we want to discourage anyone. We're being picky because we have to be.

[Munroe]

moulinous said:

I have been on this server for years...so has Kam and several others...it sometimes takes a long time to get something. It took Kam a long time to get his boat...like 2 years. And he is a DM!

Two points:
1. Kam got his boat before he became a DM.
2. His RP leading up to getting the boat was part of what made him a credible DM candidate.

I don't really have anything else to add to this thread, just wanted to bring that to your attention.

[moulinous]

wolfmunroe said:

moulinous said:

I have been on this server for years...so has Kam and several others...it sometimes takes a long time to get something. It took Kam a long time to get his boat...like 2 years. And he is a DM!

Two points:
1. Kam got his boat before he became a DM.
2. His RP leading up to getting the boat was part of what made him a credible DM candidate.

I don't really have anything else to add to this thread, just wanted to bring that to your attention.

i was pointing it out as a good example...not for any other reason....

[tleilaxughola]

Let's hear it for being a tribal nomad!