DM Q&A: Remakes: New, but made a mistake

[HeatherRae]

I am the player of Liriel Latonei.

I am brand new. I have never played in an online module/game before. Ever. This is my first experience with using Neverwinter Nights this way.

I made a a character named Liriel. She was a Cleric of Sehanine Moonbow. I created her and I did not know how to choose Domains. I wasn't aware that I could choose anything but the package given to me. So I chose the default package, which was Sun and Healing. I figured that there must not be other Domains but what was in the package.

I reached level 4 finally, after dying several times and spending a lot of time getting there. I was talking with someone in my party, and they said that their character had their Domains switched out because they were wrong. This was news to me - there were other Domains? I questioned the player about this and discovered that I had the wrong Domains, and that there were more. The player said that I should contact a DM and get it fixed. He assured me that everything would be just fine because he got all of his items and XP back.

So I dutifully contacted a DM, wishing to do the right thing. I was informed that I would lose all of my XP and all of my items because I had an illegal build. If I was higher level when I went to a DM, the DM might have actually helped me and given me my stuff back. But because I was such a low level, I was screwed, essentially.

I was and am very upset about this. Before I made my character, I checked the Server Rules, and I checked the rulebook and everything. I never saw anything about this. Had I known, I would have remade the character immediately. I am such a newbie that Liriel was actually remake of a character whose head I couldn't see - I was using an override that I didn't know caused that. So I remade the character as Liriel - still completely unaware that I could choose Domains, mind you.

I realize that I'm not an important person. My character was a real nobody. But it would have been nice for someone to give me a break. I didn't deliberately do anything wrong, and I've never played here before and I chose this place because I thought it was friendly to newbies. Unfortunately, in trying to do the right thing, I got punished anyway. Which only goes to show that I shouldn't have said anything at all.

After all the stuff I went through to get Liriel to 4th level, I don't think I have the heart to go back and go through it all again. Everything I had for her - even things I bought from other players - is gone. And I really feel that new players are unwanted here and that you guys really don't care if someone is new, has never played there before, is just learning. Had there been something in the rulebook or the Server Rules forums when I made the character, I could have simply remade her at Level 1. But to find out at Level 4 and lose everything...

That just really kills my desire to play here.

I understand that it doesn't matter that I was new, that I didn't know, or what my intent was. But the law should be about the spirit as well as what is written. It should be about the intent as well as the action.

Else there is no one righteous. Not even one.

I have, for my part, enjoyed playing here. And I will miss the people that I really enjoyed playing with. I really got attached to that character, but I just can't see going through all that again. Because it really sucked dying as much as I did, and I just...yeah.

So, in closing, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to commit such an unpardonable offense. But I really think you should rethink your rules about this. Punishing people for approaching DMs to fix something they honestly did not know was illegal and are trying to do the right thing and get fixed...it's just asinine. And it's not newbie friendly at all.

[hexer]

We do not do remakes for player error. We reserve remakes for bugs, fallen paladins, and the like. I don't know who remade your friends' character, but the rule of thumb is we do not remake player error.

At level four, remaking is hardly that big of a deal. You should be glad that you caught it as soon as you did. Either way, if a character is illegal, then a remake needs to be done.

Things like feats, skills, domains and the like are not remade by a DM mainly because a player can easily abuse it. A person, for example, could have 8's in three ability scores, lets say... INT, WIS, and CHA (which is illegal) and powergame their way up to a higher level *then* say something to a DM. Then the player would be able to keep all the loot and exp they got with their illegal powerbuild and have a 'leg up' when they're remade legally. The same applies for domains. A 'good' character could choose the 'evil' domain and have a shadow lacky to help them out in their lower levels then request a rebuild with correct domains. They'd have basically gotten a 'leg up' in exp and levels based on the fact they abused game mechanics. You can see how that would be a problem.

I'm not saying this is what you are trying to do, but I am saying that these are the rules and we stick by them, regardless of if the player means harm or not. We have to be consitant in enforcing the rules. If we allowed some people to bend rules, but not others, that would be unfair.

[HeatherRae]

hexer said:

I'm not saying this is what you are trying to do, but I am saying that these are the rules and we stick by them, regardless of if the player means harm or not.

Then perhaps you should consider putting in the rulebook, or somewhere where new players are likely to see it, the information about the Domains. Because I looked. And I never saw it.

It would have been nice to have known this before I made my character, or when I initially made my character. Instead, I got punished for trying to do the right thing. I realize that you don't see it that way, but that is exactly how it feels.

And I also realize that getting from level 1 to level 4 is nothing to you, because I'm sure you have lots of characters who left that behind long ago. But it took me quite a while and quite a few deaths to get there. It wasn't easy for me at all. Perhaps, though, that's just because I'm new and didn't know what I was doing.

[hexer]

You're not alone in this.

frc.proboards37.com/index.cgi?board=dmqa&action=display&thread=1164321629

[hexer]

Almost forgot. This is where you can find it on the forums. Its a stickied thread.

frc.proboards37.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1135832598

[HeatherRae]

hexer said:

Almost forgot. This is where you can find it on the forums. Its a stickied thread.

frc.proboards37.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1135832598

That would be why I didn't see it. It wasn't in Server Rules, the Rules Book, DM Questions and Answers, or anywhere else where I would expect a rule that important to be. I didn't check General Discussion because it didn't appear to have anything to do with rules or rules calls.

Any chance you could drag that post into a more appropriate/visible section and sticky it?

[hexer]

Yeah. That's do-able.

The rulebook is a bit outdated. We've been working on updating it. It should be finished soon.

[hexer]

DM Heim beat me to it. *Shakes fist* Damn you Heim!!

[heimdall]