|
|
Post by sangrow on Sept 26, 2006 8:20:36 GMT -5
I can understand that dm's want to keep the profits down from crafting but as it is now it might as well be removed from the server.
There is not a singel item I may craft that doesnt cost me more to create. For instance a longsword I can sell it for 13gp but it costs me a total of about 20gp to create. Not to mention fullplate cost med 750gp to craft but I can only sell it for 450gp.
The latest shock was to scribe a bull strength scroll...750gp!!! and 30xp for a level 2 spell caster level 3. The 30xp I can live with with but come on 750gp! When I want to sell its worth 95gp...
I started to invest in crafting skills since I found a adamantine metal bar. DC 28 and 5200gp to make, what I think is a, +2 item? I thought I be able to make some honest money from it so I took like 8 ranks in crafting skills.
Is this as it is intended to be?!?!
|
|
Gabusta
New Member
Hafur Stoneaxe: Charged with Barbaric Rudeness and general perversion
Posts: 97
|
Post by Gabusta on Sept 26, 2006 9:08:01 GMT -5
It is the fewest(as far as I know) that use the crafting skill to make mundane items. They are usefull for modifying your armor, weapons, etc... But not mundane items. About the adamantine: Have you seen the prices on +2 armors in Redmist? It easily reach 8-9k, a bit more than those 5200 it costs to craft one out of adamantine. And, there's some prestige in being a master craftsman  Just some of my ramblings... Sincerely, Rasmus |
|
|
|
Post by sangrow on Sept 26, 2006 9:46:36 GMT -5
Well any view or thought is welcome...my point is I want to feel that I have invested my skill points in something useful...
Though it doesnt explain why scribing is that expensive, after all you do pay a xp cost aswell...
|
|
|
|
Post by ShadowCatJen on Sept 26, 2006 9:52:00 GMT -5
The crafting system for making items (i.e. using a couple of bars of iron to make a weapon or armor) is rather quite dinked. However, you're going to find that this is the way it is on any server. It isn't too economical to use the crafting system to try and fully make your own and sell to and NPC merchant.
Where putting points into Craft Armor and Craft Weapon comes in, however, is working with others on the server (other PCs) to help alter armor/weapons to look as they want. Not every PC can or wants to spend points in the crafting skills, they'll come to you because you have.
Trust me, the cost to make things will be more then compensated for as long as you intend to do your work for other PCs on the server.
If you are only intending to take Craft Armor and Craft Weapon just so you can turn around and sell things to the NPC merchants then you will find yourself at a loss no mater what server you go to. This is done to prevent people from just using the crafting system to earn gold without any sort of roleplay.
I play a character who earns most of her gold via tailoring. I've got her points maxed out in Craft Armor. The cost it takes for me to alter a bit of regular (non magical) clothing will cost me 6 gold at the most. I've had other players pay me literally 100 times that for the work I've done for them.
The profit is there, you just have to roleplay with others to get it.
|
|
|
|
Post by sangrow on Sept 26, 2006 9:58:23 GMT -5
The crafting system for making items (i.e. using a couple of bars of iron to make a weapon or armor) is rather quite dinked. However, you're going to find that this is the way it is on any server. It isn't too economical to use the crafting system to try and fully make your own and sell to and NPC merchant. Where putting points into Craft Armor and Craft Weapon comes in, however, is working with others on the server (other PCs) to help alter armor/weapons to look as they want. Not every PC can or wants to spend points in the crafting skills, they'll come to you because you have. Trust me, the cost to make things will be more then compensated for as long as you intend to do your work for other PCs on the server. If you are only intending to take Craft Armor and Craft Weapon just so you can turn around and sell things to the NPC merchants then you will find yourself at a loss no mater what server you go to. This is done to prevent people from just using the crafting system to earn gold without any sort of roleplay. I play a character who earns most of her gold via tailoring. I've got her points maxed out in Craft Armor. The cost it takes for me to alter a bit of regular (non magical) clothing will cost me 6 gold at the most. I've had other players pay me literally 100 times that for the work I've done for them. The profit is there, you just have to roleplay with others to get it. Thank you another good reply...However I cant see whats wrong with crafting for money, why is it worse to be a craftsman than a monster basher? Its not like you make any xp on it...Besides you still need the materials, if it was worth anything you could actually pay other players to gather stuff for you. |
|
|
|
Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Sept 26, 2006 11:21:04 GMT -5
Look... the bottom line is we didn't build the system. It is the Bioware default system. We will most likely be revising it or changing it or replacing it.
There is really no sense in talking about how much it sucks, cause I think we all know it does.
The module is the closest it has ever been to being completely finished and I think there are lots of exciting things in store for the very near future.
Just hang in there and if you don't like the current system, just don't craft until the system is changed. Craft skill points will not be worthless if we engage a new system, so I would keep taking whatever it is you want the ability to craft.
|
|
|
|
Post by sangrow on Sept 26, 2006 12:41:54 GMT -5
Look... the bottom line is we didn't build the system. It is the Bioware default system. We will most likely be revising it or changing it or replacing it. There is really no sense in talking about how much it sucks, cause I think we all know it does. The module is the closest it has ever been to being completely finished and I think there are lots of exciting things in store for the very near future. Just hang in there and if you don't like the current system, just don't craft until the system is changed. Craft skill points will not be worthless if we engage a new system, so I would keep taking whatever it is you want the ability to craft. This is the first time ever I used the Bioware crafting system...I did however craft alot using the community made crafting system where you gathered a lot different supplies to make stuff. I enjoyed that, so I thought I try the Bioware version. Still you mustve changed the scribing scrolls...Flame weapon costs like 150gp to make and its a level 2 spell there is no way bulls strength should cost 750gp, unless that is your intention or its a giant bug from boware...  |
|
|
|
Post by DM Richard (Retired) on Sept 26, 2006 12:48:50 GMT -5
Has anyone here scribed a bulls strength scroll before Biowares last patch?
If so was it this way then?
|
|
|
|
Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Sept 26, 2006 12:50:25 GMT -5
Still you mustve changed the scribing scrolls...Flame weapon costs like 150gp to make and its a level 2 spell there is no way bulls strength should cost 750gp, unless that is your intention or its a giant bug from boware... *points to his nose* Hit it right on the head. It is a huge bug by Bioware. The reason it costs so much more is because the level of the spell it is crafted at does not match the level of the spell on the scroll. Take a look, you might see that your scroll might be level 15 where you might be only level 3. |
|
|
|
Post by Grozer on Sept 26, 2006 13:03:33 GMT -5
But to his point, Flame Weapon my level 4 mage created one today cost = 150 gp and 2 XP (I believe) scroll was level 17. I would expect a level 17 scroll to cost a bit more. Perhaps this makes up for the some of the outrageous scrolls? heh ;D
I havent done bulls strength so not sure and I never created this spell prior to the patch.
Sangrow - Justicar has a point though, this is the default system and tweaking it would require significant scripting which the DMs are not going to spend the time on at this point. Some spells you will benefit from scribing, eg Flame Weapon others you will lose out.
On the other hand, there is a place in the mod which allows a bit more crafting for mages, however I wont give away where. This may make up for the bugs in the Bioware version I am not sure since I havent used it yet.
|
|
|
|
Post by Helgrin Granitesoul on Sept 26, 2006 13:12:40 GMT -5
Yep - Shadow cat got it on the nose. Helgrin has lots of points in craft armor and is now putting them in craft wepon. I never did it so that I could sell items to a merchant. Did it so I could do work for PC's and have a roleplay device to fall back on if I didnt feel like heading out into the wilds. And as for just takin 8 ranks.... come on.. thats nothing. Thats not a real investment of your character time and effort that should be expected in order to do something like working with Adamantine or mithral. Only masters of the art should be able to do something like that.. Not a everyday joe that does it as a small side line. *edit - reread that and if it sounds harsh wasnt meant to be......*
As for removing it from the server.... No way. Because it is not an easy streak to money those of us that do have the points to do certain things should be reward with our skills. I could have been taking appraise, or heal, or discipline. Things that help everyday out in the wilds. Now that I do have the points and can gaurentee my work cause I never fail except for a crap roll I do make good lions when I take on a job. Why do I deserve it. Cause I sacrificed a lot to get those points into those skills....
I know what people complaints are for the crafting system for armor and weapons. Do not know the number of times people have asked me about working adamantine and mithral into other than the default choices but without the Haks or scripting it just isnt there. Would I like it to be able to do even more.... damn straight. Will I complain about it not being there... hell no. The DM team had enough to handle that I aint about to complain about it.
I feel the less haks the better.....
|
|
|
|
Post by ShadowCatJen on Sept 26, 2006 14:27:35 GMT -5
As it's been mentioned, Bioware seriously botched the crafting system for scroll makers. At the moment, the pooch is screwed with it and until Bioware actually patches it (or someone out there comes up with an easy scripting solution) it's going to stay that way.
Read: It ain't us.
And there is a very big difference between someone who would grind away at crafting to gain gold verses someone who would "monster bash": You won't have a leather patch try to kill you.
There is zero risk involved with being a "grinder" and only seems to service the character doing it. It provides very little in the way of roleplaying with others on the server. Someone who's out there monster bashing could very well run into another PC or run into a DM quest. Grinding? You stick in one spot, craft, and only end up "speaking" with a merchant NPC. Not very conductive to roleplay.
As I said before and I'll say again: When you get an idea in your head for the server ask yourself one question. Will this make for more or less roleplay on the server?
|
|
|
|
Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Sept 26, 2006 14:56:47 GMT -5
Look... the bottom line is we didn't build the system. It is the Bioware default system. We will most likely be revising it or changing it or replacing it. There is really no sense in talking about how much it sucks, cause I think we all know it does. The module is the closest it has ever been to being completely finished and I think there are lots of exciting things in store for the very near future. Just hang in there and if you don't like the current system, just don't craft until the system is changed. Craft skill points will not be worthless if we engage a new system, so I would keep taking whatever it is you want the ability to craft. This is the first time ever I used the Bioware crafting system...I did however craft alot using the community made crafting system where you gathered a lot different supplies to make stuff. I enjoyed that, so I thought I try the Bioware version. Still you mustve changed the scribing scrolls...Flame weapon costs like 150gp to make and its a level 2 spell there is no way bulls strength should cost 750gp, unless that is your intention or its a giant bug from boware... No we didn't musta change anything. This is the system right "out of the box". It is because changing it takes changes to the 2da's and possible haks, etc, etc... If we made changes we would announce them and not hide them. |
|
|
|
Post by sangrow on Sept 26, 2006 16:29:16 GMT -5
Ahh then its all sorted then...that wasnt that painful now was it... ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by Munroe on Sept 26, 2006 17:25:55 GMT -5
I hate to say "you're wrong" to everyone but the armour/weapon/trap crafting system we use is actually the CEP-modified crafting system, not the Bioware default. You can tell the difference because the Bioware default has an option to "Remove robe" and lists the Bioware robes by name. (To see it, open the HOTU campaign and do crafting.) I have crafting on my characters and generally don't have a problem with the CEP-crafting except one point: When I craft traps, my camera gets locked in place and I can't move it anymore until I minimize NWN and re-maximize it. I can't wait until CEP modes it again so you can change cloak appearance once the equippable cloaks are working. Bioware added the equippable cloaks last patch but didn't change their crafting so you can change the appearance of your cloak. (The drow henchie in the HOTU campaign is stuck wearing a tan cloak with a symbol of Torm on it. :-P)
The scribe scroll/brew potion/craft wand crafting is the Bioware default, however.
|
|
|
|
Post by Munroe on Sept 26, 2006 17:32:17 GMT -5
Just to clarify, the prices and DCs are the same in the CEP-modified crafting and Bioware crafting. The main change is the interface, which allows for using non-Bioware crafting components that came in the CEP.
|
|
|
|
Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Sept 27, 2006 8:36:38 GMT -5
OK, Munroe is right... it is the CEP system but it is just a wrapper around the Bioware default system and is by and large the same system.
|
|
|
|
Post by Munroe on Sept 27, 2006 10:34:15 GMT -5
Well, it's tomato tomato really. (That expression really doesn't work in print.)
|
|
|
|
Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Sept 27, 2006 11:25:32 GMT -5
Well, it's tomato tomato really. (That expression really doesn't work in print.) Heh, true on a couple of levels. |
|
