Templar
Old School
A female dwarf?! No really! What do you play?
Posts: 585
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Post by Templar on Apr 26, 2014 23:05:59 GMT -5
if someone refuses a raise due to any reason, doesn't that mean they are choosing to retire their character? (as the character is choosing to stay dead indefinitely?)
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Post by Sadistic Hobo on Apr 26, 2014 23:27:01 GMT -5
if someone refuses a raise due to any reason, doesn't that mean they are choosing to retire their character? (as the character is choosing to stay dead indefinitely?) No. Their soul is unresponsive to a particular call, not all calls. The respawn mechanic already assumes that someone, somehow, somewhen recovered the body of a character that wasn't manually raised. If a party decides to ditch the corpse of a dead member rather than help them, is that PC then permanently killed? Certainly not. We suspend that disbelief as readily as the fact that there is magic in the game. If anything I think it's cool when raises are rejected. It's like you've been spending weekends with someone for years, but suddenly you realize they totally refuse to drink your brand. It makes you think twice about them.
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malleus
Old School
The first breath is the beginning of death.
Posts: 450
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Post by malleus on Apr 28, 2014 1:16:17 GMT -5
Love the bounty idea,
Go for it.
Cant waite to se my name on the bounty list (again)
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Post by emeraldsnowx on Dec 22, 2015 22:43:58 GMT -5
Lethal force on a non-lethal bounty is -always- a possibility, and one would have to assume that the issuing authority knows this. A good example of that:
Hunter: "Hold there! You are wanted by lawful warrant of arrest, and you -will- come with me peacefully. If you draw your weapon or act aggressively, I -will- defend myself from you."
If the fugitive acts aggressively (draws weapon, begins to cast, closes ground with the hunter) or attempts to flee after being verbally apprehended, -they- just escalated the conditions of their own capture, not the hunter.
...a practiced hunter knows his/her legal limits, and how to stay well and safe within them... killing a bounty on apprehension does not always equate into a murder charge for the hunter. An investigation? You bet... but charges only pending investigation in most cases, in a reasonable and precisely portrayed setting.
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Post by gathera on Dec 23, 2015 0:36:35 GMT -5
And remember No disintegrations *chucking*
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Post by Southpaw on Dec 29, 2015 16:01:54 GMT -5
Lethal force on a non-lethal bounty is -always- a possibility, and one would have to assume that the issuing authority knows this. A good example of that: Hunter: "Hold there! You are wanted by lawful warrant of arrest, and you -will- come with me peacefully. If you draw your weapon or act aggressively, I -will- defend myself from you." If the fugitive acts aggressively (draws weapon, begins to cast, closes ground with the hunter) or attempts to flee after being verbally apprehended, -they- just escalated the conditions of their own capture, not the hunter. ...a practiced hunter knows his/her legal limits, and how to stay well and safe within them... killing a bounty on apprehension does not always equate into a murder charge for the hunter. An investigation? You bet... but charges only pending investigation in most cases, in a reasonable and precisely portrayed setting.
It's also entirely possible that a PC may decide to kill in connection with a warrant for their own personal IC reasons. Just because the law wants a mark alive doesn't mean every PC coming after them will, an NPC-posted bounty is not OOC DM instruction to act IC one way or another, and a PC's mind is not a court of law.
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Post by ladyphoenix on Dec 29, 2015 23:20:15 GMT -5
and unfortunately, a non-lethal bounty, someone might still kill and try to collect saying the target resisted and he was killed in fight.
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Post by Razgriz on Dec 30, 2015 0:23:34 GMT -5
If the bounty is dead or alive... (and depending on who they are of course)
Just kill them, never claim it. Ok enough! *stops*
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Post by Pandora on Jan 3, 2016 8:34:37 GMT -5
It's also entirely possible that a PC may decide to kill in connection with a warrant for their own personal IC reasons. Just because the law wants a mark alive doesn't mean every PC coming after them will, an NPC-posted bounty is not OOC DM instruction to act IC one way or another, and a PC's mind is not a court of law. Yep, this may be a PCs IC reaction. As a general clarification, in an instance like this the PC coming after the character with a wanted-alive bounty issued could themselves be committing murder (at minimum serious assault), which is an evil and unlawful act.
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Templar
Old School
A female dwarf?! No really! What do you play?
Posts: 585
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Post by Templar on Jan 4, 2016 0:06:30 GMT -5
how you are supposed to capture someone alive? there is no mechanic that allows you to do this. So if the person doesn't choose to rp it out, then there is literally no way to do it. (and even if they do rp it, most don't understand what god modeing is and do it, which isn't their fault in most cases, this isn't that kind of rp server so they aren't expected to know)
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Post by Razgriz on Jan 4, 2016 0:32:15 GMT -5
Flesh to stone is considered killing them or not? If not then maybe that is an option.
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Post by Duerbloodhammer on Jan 4, 2016 12:45:04 GMT -5
Flesh to stone is considered killing them or not? If not then maybe that is an option. I'd think if you had Flesh to stone, and Stone to flesh then it wouldn't be killing them.
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Post by Razgriz on Jan 4, 2016 12:58:54 GMT -5
Flesh to stone is considered killing them or not? If not then maybe that is an option. I'd think if you had Flesh to stone, and Stone to flesh then it wouldn't be killing them. Yes, and maybe dominate if too if the duration allows it. You can force them to follow you to the nearest Purple Dragon outpost.
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Post by StabbingNirvana on Jan 4, 2016 13:58:35 GMT -5
The best way is to cut off their hands and feet then stuff their mouths full of cotton. That way they can't use magic to escape. Plus, they could be called the ultra cute name; Stumpy.
Ain't no where that says they need to be turned in physically capable and in perfect health. Just alive.
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Post by emeraldsnowx on Jan 5, 2016 3:09:02 GMT -5
Character mutilation (hands and feet, etc) is entirely up to the permissions of the player. I crossed this bridge once before with taking an ear to prove a mark had been assassinated, and it turned into a big can of worms.
As far as live apprehension vs. killing a fugitive, the only sure way to do it is to have a witness or two to testify that live capture was verbally attempted. If the fugitive resists or flees, the FUGITIVE has escalated the situation and left the apprehending authority with no choice but to use deadly force. As long as the apprehending authority covers their butt by having witnesses to their lawful attempts, I can see no plausible scenario that would result in -any- charges being brought against the apprehending authority for exercising necessary force.
There may not necessarily be existing combat mechanics for live capture, but there is a way to conduct a capture with that in mind... a verbal arrest. If the fugitive is unwilling to cooperate, there is no choice but to rely on mechanics and magically subdue (which cannot be reasonably expected) or kill the fugitive and submit the body to authorities for attempted raising at the fugitive's expense (for resisting / running in the first place).
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blink
Proven Member
Resident lurker.
Posts: 215
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Post by blink on Jan 5, 2016 5:02:23 GMT -5
Character mutilation (hands and feet, etc) is entirely up to the permissions of the player. I crossed this bridge once before with taking an ear to prove a mark had been assassinated, and it turned into a big can of worms. I figure if a player is concerned about needing to roleplay a lost limb, or what have you, forever, there are plenty of ways to magic it back, etc. If a situation arises that a player tries to say that you didn't take an ear of theirs, etc, to show as proof, well, screenshots at the time of the roleplay, I guess.
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Post by StabbingNirvana on Jan 5, 2016 7:29:52 GMT -5
Or you could place the ear next to the regenerated ear and compare structure ....
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Post by Orchid on Jan 5, 2016 23:28:45 GMT -5
This whole conversation I feel grossly misassumes that a bounty hunter is a "law" person...yes someone who hunts bounties could be doing for the good of the land or similar, but they are by definition outside of "the law". Lawful means keeping to a code, it doesn't mean keeping to legality.
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Post by emeraldsnowx on Jun 4, 2016 16:40:24 GMT -5
Feats, skill ranks, and spells represent what a PC can do. If a character lacks any feats, skills or spells to convincingly disable a character or coerce surrender, then they don't have the necessary skills to be an effective bounty hunter. The deck is supposed to be rigged against any hunter seeking to bring someone in alive. A bounty hunter is trying to fulfill a lawful contract with terms and limitations, when their target is trying to survive. It's my opinion that mechanically killing a PC and roleplaying it as non-lethal force should be unacceptable. Can I have Ramona implode someone and later emote not having used fatal force? The example is slightly absurd, but it's the same premise. I used my character's full mechanical potential to kill someone and bring about the most thorough resolution for my PC. This holds true if it's a spell or an auto attack with a sword. If Ramona electrocutes a bounty, then smacks them to death with a hammer when they get up, I am not about to emote *Non-fatal hammerskulling*. That is silly. They died, and attempting to emote that someone else didn't die when they clearly did is god-emoting at face value. She will march back to town proudly sticking to her guns if she was allowed to kill them. If it was a live bounty, then she committed murder and will be convicting herself if she tries to turn them in. In that case, she'll go; "Oh, fffff-..." *Hides the body in the shrubbery* We don't need sub-dual combat for this change. There is no reason that you should be able to magically skip the risk of killing a character while still playing at your peak mechanical efficiency and damage output. If you need to engage a PC without killing them, you are specifically choosing a disadvantage and should have to play that out. If your character is unable to use non-fatal force, then they are naturally unsuited for collecting live bounties and shouldn't expect very much success. There is no mechanic that allows for a swordsman's ability to inflict debilitating, non-lethal wounds (which in reality, a swordsman can do quite easily), and no feats or abilities are required to knock someone out.
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Post by emeraldsnowx on Jun 8, 2016 3:00:53 GMT -5
Hahaha- I only just realized that the topic title is "Bounty and WARRANTY discussion" XD *dying*
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Post by Dobian on Jun 8, 2016 11:37:29 GMT -5
The game mechanics limit what you can do that could be achievable in real life. If someone is sleeping in their room, they would be asleep for hours, not twenty seconds. I should be able to sneak in there and smother their face with a pillow if I wanted. Drugging a person is something else that you could do. Slip something into their food or drink when they're not looking. Cold-cocking someone could actually be done with the game mechanics. If you have KD and come up behind someone and are successful knocking them down, rp that they are out cold from a shot to the back of the head.
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Post by lucid on Jun 8, 2016 15:53:09 GMT -5
Mechanically they're only "out cold" for six seconds, then spring like gymnasts back to their feet. Without cooperation you really can only kill them. Screenshot your kill if they respawn, walk away, and let the gods sort it out. If they don't begin by cooperating, I can promise they won't start after you've wasted them.
-With- cooperation you can do KO, wrestling, poison, mind control, binding/escape, and overall get in a hell of a lot more emotes and dialogue. I enjoy this so. But the issue of what rules control it has needed to be negotiated every single time, and they're pretty much always different.
I am willing to prove who wins or loses by mechanics, then RP a different ending toward the same result using lots of wacky emote moves. But somehow nobody ever seems to want it that way...one or the other, only.
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Post by lucid on Jun 8, 2016 15:58:55 GMT -5
This whole conversation I feel grossly misassumes that a bounty hunter is a "law" person...yes someone who hunts bounties could be doing for the good of the land or similar, but they are by definition outside of "the law". Lawful means keeping to a code, it doesn't mean keeping to legality. Loria goes after every bounty that gets posted. Anyone who calls her Lawful...heh...heheheheeeehhehehe
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Post by Animayhem on Jun 8, 2016 17:14:35 GMT -5
This is quite interesting. I played on a server once where a bounty was placed on my guild and later another placed on my character. She had done nothing wrong against the realm, just irritated a rival guild.
The whole role play had to be dm approved. The dm and the victim discussed ahead of time exactly what kind of treatment the victim would accept as far as mutilation or torture if in captivity. Some may say well that is too much ooc but it did make better rp and outcome for all involved.
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Post by ladyphoenix on Jun 12, 2016 22:38:03 GMT -5
The last time I captured, I first sheathed weapon so I was using fist and contacted staff before actually attacking to get a staff raise to reflect a knock out with a subdual weapon rather than kill.
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Post by Animayhem on Jun 13, 2016 0:36:00 GMT -5
Shame no subdual mode here
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