FRC Bounty and Warranty Discussion

[DM Hawk]

Hail Cormyrians! This thread is being created to provide a venue for any questions or discussion pertaining to the below introduction of a Bounty and Warranty policy for FRC.

Apr 23, 2014 22:08:10 GMT -5 DM Hawk said:

Hail Cormyrians!

The DM Team has discussed and decided to roll out a trial policy to allow Player Characters more authority and law enforcement capability in game, under the specific conditions and circumstances outlined below. This change is being made to encourage fun and healthy in-character intrigue and conflict between lawful and criminal factions on FRC.

The DM Team is aware that in game authority has been OOC abused in the past. We will be on the lookout to address any potential OOC abuse of power in its early stages. The DM Team reserves the right to revoke the policy if deemed appropriate.

Please remember the Golden Rule of FRC: Have fun! But not at the expense of others.

This policy doesn't place the burden of policing player characters upon other PC's, but allows PC's the opportunity to participate in law enforcement or bounty hunting under specific conditions. NPC's controlled by the DM Team continue to have the legal authority they have previously demonstrated.

The Governing Authorities in game are NPC's controlled by the DM Team. Governing authorities include local Lords or Councils, War Wizards, the Crown, the head of the Thayan Enclave, etc. Each governing authority has a jurisdiction in which they can legally act. For example, the Crown or the War Wizards can act within the boundaries of Cormyr, while the Greatgaunt Council's authority is limited to the walls of Greatgaunt and the legal authority of Thay only exists on the Thayan soil within the walls of the Thayan Enclave (until the conquest. Just kidding. Right?).

A DM Team controlled governing authority may temporarily deputize (delegate) authority within its jurisdiction to player characters by issuing Bounties or Warrants, which enable characters to act with the legal powers described in the documents. Once a bounty or warrant is fulfilled the authority granted by it expires. Additionally, the governing authority may cancel a bounty or warrant at any time. In order for a bounty or warrant to be valid, it must be posted on the forum by a member of the DM Team.

A stickied thread will be created and maintained by the DM Team to list all open bounties and warrants.

A Bounty may be issued to the public by a governing authority within their jurisdiction. Anyone can act on the bounty so long as they are not wanted by the law themselves or if acting on the bounty would be the same as performing a duty already assigned within in that jurisdiction (for example, Bentin could not collect a bounty while performing an arrest in Greatgaunt as he is only doing his duty and a fugitive from the law cannot collect a bounty reward).

Player characters can petition the authorities for a bounty to be raised, but a bounty must be raised by a DM and posted on the public forum to be valid.

Each bounty will state specific terms including:
-The identity of the governing authority issuing the bounty
-Name and/or descriptions of the wanted person(s)
-Condition in which wanted person(s) must be surrendered (unharmed, subdued, dead or alive, etc.)
-Prizes awarded by the bounty, usually in sums of gold.


A Warrant may be issued to an individual by the governing authority within their jurisdiction. The individual may possibly belong to a group having some pre-existing authority, such as the Royal Corps of Monster Hunters or Valkur's Roar Guard.

Player characters may petition a governing authority to raise a warrant and deputize an individual to fulfill it when there is just cause or a case is made with evidence. A warrant must be raised by a DM and posted on the public forum to be valid.

An individual validly possessing authority granted by a warrant may recruit help from others, preferably from their own organization, and pursue and arrest wanted character(s) stated in the warrant. A character legally possessing the warrant document must be present when the warrant's legal authority is exercised. A warrant document can be transferred to another character within the same organization or to another character temporarily deputized by the governing authority for that warrant.

Each warrant will state specific terms including:
-The identity of the governing authority issuing the warrant
-The identity of the person being deputized by the warrant and the organization to which they belong if applicable.
-Name and/or descriptions of the wanted person(s)
-Condition in which wanted person(s) must be surrendered (unharmed, subdued, dead or alive, etc.)
-Fulfilling a warrant is a duty placed upon the temporarily deputized individuals, there is no material reward for the service, though other forms of recognition may be won.


A bounty or warrant does not justify committing crimes in pursuit of capture. Characters exercising a bounty or warrant witnessed committing crimes or using unauthorized force will be held accountable for their own crimes and may suffer further penalties within their organization.


In-Character corruption in relation to Bounties and Warrants is acceptable intrigue and part of the game but will have in-character consequences if caught. Play at your own risk!

Out of character abuse or exploitation of the authority is not acceptable. Please make sure you clearly understand the difference before taking action. If abuse occurs consequences will follow. Let's all be sure to avoid this.

The policy will be rolled out slowly under observation and be adjusted as necessary by the DM Team.

We will begin with the RCMH guild now having the ability to gather evidence and submit a request to governing authorities for warrants. The guild is deputized to transfer warrant documents between guild members. The holder of the warrant document must be present when taking action to fulfill the warrant. The DM Team will consider the requests and evidence collected by the RCMH, issue a warrant if approved, and make a public post to validate any warrants issued.

Additionally, the DM Team may issue bounties or warrants from governing authorities to other characters as deemed appropriate in game.

If you have any questions please contact a DM or post in the discussion thread here.

Have fun and see you in game!

[arisnorman1]

So if a bounty is out any PC can collect such?

[DM Hawk]

Apr 23, 2014 23:49:59 GMT -5 arisnorman1 said:

So if a bounty is out any PC can collect such?

Generally yes, unless that person is a fugitive from the law or if that person would be considered doing their duty by fulfilling the bounty, such as Bentin in the example above arresting someone in Greatgaunt. That's Bentin doing his job, he wouldn't receive a bounty prize for it.

We can also make an example of, say, Aris. Aris being a known Banite wouldn't qualify to act on bounties in Cormyr, especially Greatgaunt from which he is forever banished. But Aris could collect a bounty offered by the Thayan Enclave.

I hope that helps to clarify

[Lokarn]

Mwahaha, erhm, I mean... Interesting. I have an idea.

[Deleted]

I think this is a very good idea, and I hope it expands rather than contracting.

[ren]

First, I think this an awesome idea for the server =D

ButI have a question about "-Condition in which wanted person(s) must be surrendered (unharmed, subdued, dead or alive, etc.)" capture conditions

I can see bringing in a dead body with the present game mechanics
- kill via getting target to -11 hp or by death ability by spell or effect
- Target agrees in OOC not to respawn
- you would raise them by a spell, or a scroll (which the DM's would refund you maybe?), or have a dm raise the dead target
- IC you carry dead body to bounty turn in place, OOC raised target follows you bounty turn in place and plays dead when you both arrive at bounty turn in place



But there are no real mechanics for subduing a target without kill them IMHO.
- Could a monk stuns target, monk ties up target while s/he is stunned, and captures target ending combat?
- Could you do the something with a sleep spell or similar subduing like spell or tanglefoot bag?

As far as I know there is no Non-Lethal-Damage mechanic in game like there is in pen and paper D&D.

Maybe there should a forum post with rulings about some standard stuff bounty hunters would try and the rulings about how the hunted can escape common capture tactics? I think a rules list about such things would avoid alot of OOC bounty hunter and bounty hunted arguments.

Here's some stuff I thought of
- grappling
- rope and lasso
- stun/knockdown/sleep/tanglefoot bag and tie up
- sneak up behind target and put a sword point to their neck and say "Don't move or Die"
- non-lethal knockout weapons (fight with sap or non-certain-magic-bonused unarmed strike [no fire or slash or stab damage on punch gloves, but regular enhancement be fine I feel since it is just more punch damage], target knocked out at Near-Death status, target has 1d20+con mod vs 20 to wake up from knock-out status every IRL 5 min ....good ruling?)

Some of these might be good for bringing in targets unharmed ... like sleep/tanglefoot bag and tie up for example.

What do you all think?

[Deleted]

^^ My mind keeps turning "rope and lasso" into "Ronso" when I'm not looking directly at it for some reason.

[Fenix]

Apr 24, 2014 16:07:06 GMT -5 ren said:

First, I think this an awesome idea for the server =D

ButI have a question about "-Condition in which wanted person(s) must be surrendered (unharmed, subdued, dead or alive, etc.)" capture conditions

I can see bringing in a dead body with the present game mechanics
- kill via getting target to -11 hp or by death ability by spell or effect
- Target agrees in OOC not to respawn
- you would raise them by a spell, or a scroll (which the DM's would refund you maybe?), or have a dm raise the dead target
- IC you carry dead body to bounty turn in place, OOC raised target follows you bounty turn in place and plays dead when you both arrive at bounty turn in place



But there are no real mechanics for subduing a target without kill them IMHO.
- Could a monk stuns target, monk ties up target while s/he is stunned, and captures target ending combat?
- Could you do the something with a sleep spell or similar subduing like spell or tanglefoot bag?

As far as I know there is no Non-Lethal-Damage mechanic in game like there is in pen and paper D&D.

Maybe there should a forum post with rulings about some standard stuff bounty hunters would try and the rulings about how the hunted can escape common capture tactics? I think a rules list about such things would avoid alot of OOC bounty hunter and bounty hunted arguments.

Here's some stuff I thought of
- grappling
- rope and lasso
- stun/knockdown/sleep/tanglefoot bag and tie up
- sneak up behind target and put a sword point to their neck and say "Don't move or Die"
- non-lethal knockout weapons (fight with sap or non-certain-magic-bonused unarmed strike [no fire or slash or stab damage on punch gloves, but regular enhancement be fine I feel since it is just more punch damage], target knocked out at Near-Death status, target has 1d20+con mod vs 20 to wake up from knock-out status every IRL 5 min ....good ruling?)

Some of these might be good for bringing in targets unharmed ... like sleep/tanglefoot bag and tie up for example.

What do you all think?

On both sides of the topic of subduing...


When Fenix was being pursued, two players attempted to capture him. They ended up killing him, but tied him up and raised him thereafter. Rply, he was tied up by all means, and so he could be considered to be "subdued" in such a situation. Subdual does not necessarily have to be mechanical, as much as it can just be RPed well on both sides of the team.

Now, he did also manage to escape this subdual. Twice. The first time, he stalled following them, and drew a dagger from his boot subtly. He walked along behind them and cut the ropes on his hands, then began to run. They killed him again and this time tied him up and carried him when they raised him. His method of escape the second time? He shifted into a werewolf, and caused a fear effect on both with a howl. From there, he shifted into a small creature to escape from the bindings, and ran away.

On both sides, you can account for a lot of unnamed factors, like a wizard having still/silent spell to escape being gagged or bound. You don't need a mechanic for everything.

[StabbingNirvana]

In response to Ren: I have to agree that a "bring them back alive" warrant would be way too difficult to achieve. The player would have to be very willing to have their character "lose". Without a subdual damage system and a very willing player on the opposite end, the only way I could see these types of warrants/bounties being collected would be by giving the PvP victor power over choosing the lethality of his actions.

[Fenix]

Apr 24, 2014 17:21:26 GMT -5 StabbingNirvana said:

In response to Ren: I have to agree that a "bring them back alive" warrant would be way too difficult to achieve. The player would have to be very willing to have their character "lose". Without a subdual damage system and a very willing player on the opposite end, the only way I could see these types of warrants/bounties being collected would be by giving the PvP victor power over choosing the lethality of his actions.

Thats under the assumption that no player will be willing. Sure, nobody wants to lose and most will do anything to see themselves victorious, but even the best villians know that sometimes "losing" will be better than trying to make themselves look worse. Out of much of the bounty and PVP rp ive had in the time ive been here, I can't say ive had any where another player was going to be unwilling to comply with something, sans probably 2 or 3 players.

In real life, you are not going to have an easy time bringing a murderer in peacefully. but killing them doesnt make them pay for their actions either. Think of it that way.

[Sadistic Hobo]

Feats, skill ranks, and spells represent what a PC can do. If a character lacks any feats, skills or spells to convincingly disable a character or coerce surrender, then they don't have the necessary skills to be an effective bounty hunter. The deck is supposed to be rigged against any hunter seeking to bring someone in alive. A bounty hunter is trying to fulfill a lawful contract with terms and limitations, when their target is trying to survive.

It's my opinion that mechanically killing a PC and roleplaying it as non-lethal force should be unacceptable. Can I have Ramona implode someone and later emote not having used fatal force? The example is slightly absurd, but it's the same premise. I used my character's full mechanical potential to kill someone and bring about the most thorough resolution for my PC. This holds true if it's a spell or an auto attack with a sword. If Ramona electrocutes a bounty, then smacks them to death with a hammer when they get up, I am not about to emote *Non-fatal hammerskulling*. That is silly. They died, and attempting to emote that someone else didn't die when they clearly did is god-emoting at face value. She will march back to town proudly sticking to her guns if she was allowed to kill them. If it was a live bounty, then she committed murder and will be convicting herself if she tries to turn them in. In that case, she'll go;

"Oh, fffff-..." *Hides the body in the shrubbery*

We don't need sub-dual combat for this change. There is no reason that you should be able to magically skip the risk of killing a character while still playing at your peak mechanical efficiency and damage output. If you need to engage a PC without killing them, you are specifically choosing a disadvantage and should have to play that out. If your character is unable to use non-fatal force, then they are naturally unsuited for collecting live bounties and shouldn't expect very much success.

[Lokarn]

To add another point on death, raising, and being tied up. Something that few players take into consideration, myself included at times, is the process of a raise dead spell. The soul of the person being raised has to accept the raise, aside from NwN mechanics force raising, the dead soul is actually informed a few basic bits of knowledge when a raise is attempted. I am not 100% sure of the exact info they get, but I think they know the alignment at the very least of the raiser. I am also not sure how the scroll is accounted for either. I am sure Munroe or another DM can help here though.

That took more text than I had planned. My point is basic, if you kill a bounty and would like to raise them in a tied up manner, they may decline the raise, it's not automatic.

[Fenix]

Apr 24, 2014 18:34:26 GMT -5 Lokarn said:

To add another point on death, raising, and being tied up. Something that few players take into consideration, myself included at times, is the process of a raise dead spell. The soul of the person being raised has to accept the raise, aside from NwN mechanics force raising, the dead soul is actually informed a few basic bits of knowledge when a raise is attempted. I am not 100% sure of the exact info they get, but I think they know the alignment at the very least of the raiser. I am also not sure how the scroll is accounted for either. I am sure Munroe or another DM can help here though.

That took more text than I had planned. My point is basic, if you kill a bounty and would like to raise them in a tied up manner, they may decline the raise, it's not automatic.

Name, Alignment, and Deity. I have heard mixed in the realm of scrolls though. I've heard that it gives the maker of the scroll's information, and ive heard its the users information. Never anything solid though.

[Lokarn]

Oh, I forgot to mention, the PC does not remember the information once raised, they only know it before they are raised as far as I remember.

[StabbingNirvana]

Apr 24, 2014 18:19:03 GMT -5 Sadistic Hobo said:

Feats, skill ranks, and spells represent what a PC can do. If a character lacks any feats or spells to convincingly disable a character or coerce surrender, then they don't have the necessary skills to be an effective bounty hunter. The deck is supposed to be rigged against any hunter seeking to bring someone in alive. A bounty hunter is trying to fulfill a lawful contract with terms and limitations, when their target is trying to survive.
........

Knock down is a great example of this. Try it sometime and let us know how it goes. The several times I have, the person on the other end had gotten up and kept trying to flee or fight. With fast paced combat and no method to communicate (is: Typing) while also trying to stay alive, the lines of what could be viewed as a "surrender" are blurred. We've all dueled where we set up a damaged status limit for victory. How often does one side keep attacking the other until the realization comes through that the fight ends? And that is under friendly terms.

If skills, feats, and spells determine who could be an effective bounty hunter for a bounty that needs a person brought back alive, it limits the bounty/warrant system to few classes, basically the ones with immobilizing spells.

[Sadistic Hobo]

You have to imagine that the guy Han Solo shot in the bar was thinking the same thing. Clearly he thought he had the right build for it, but he didn't. His initiative roll was garbage.

Why should it be safe and inviting to pursue bounties a centralized monarchy set up? It sounds like something only a few crazy people, or some guys with really well suited skill sets would do. Bounties already make someone open season. It is good that there is at least some reason for people not to take the chance.

[DM Hawk]

Thanks everyone for the feedback thus far.

It makes sense that acceptable sub-dual practices need to be understood. Historically, FRC has not had black and white rules regarding this and in a lot of cases we trust in our fellow community members to work out fair ways to determine the outcome of non-lethal combat or ask a DM to help observe and determine the outcome.

I agree with Hobo's post above - if a character uses lethal force and the opponent dies, it was not sub-dual. It was death and, depending on circumstances, possibly murder. A thread on Subduing opponents has opened up and I look forward to seeing the discussion there. I will ask the DM team to discuss this as well, but for now we are trusting that players can find agreement about how to enter a non-lethal combat scenario.

Regarding raising after PVP: If the raise is an OOC raise then the living character did not raise the dead character, story-wise. Also an OOC raise does not mean death never happened. It is up to the raised character to explain his or her revival. Please note that a player may refuse an OOC raise if they wish. If a raise is attempted in character, the dead character may or may not revive depending on the wishes of the player of the dead character and that character's motivations.

[DM Hawk]

And...just for the record...


...


...


Han shot first

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2014 20:55:31 GMT -5 StabbingNirvana said:

[ Knock down is a great example of this. Try it sometime and let us know how it goes. The several times I have, the person on the other end had gotten up and kept trying to flee or fight. With fast paced combat and no method to communicate (is: Typing) while also trying to stay alive, the lines of what could be viewed as a "surrender" are blurred. We've all dueled where we set up a damaged status limit for victory. How often does one side keep attacking the other until the realization comes through that the fight ends? And that is under friendly terms.

If skills, feats, and spells determine who could be an effective bounty hunter for a bounty that needs a person brought back alive, it limits the bounty/warrant system to few classes, basically the ones with immobilizing spells.

If I thought you were trying to kill my character because I had nothing to go on except the fact you just socked her with a KD, I can see myself having her get up and run away. If I knew what you were doing, because there was prior OOC communication, I would at least play along long enough to role play out what ever it is you tried to do next. I'd also say, though, that knocking someone down on the ground would put you at an advantage, but the struggle to tie someone up isn't over at that point. But I'd at least stick around to resolve the non-lethal combat, if I knew before you started doling out KD's that that's what you intended.

And I honestly can't think of a single PVP fight, whether friendly duel IC or lethal battle, that I've ever had a problem with when there was prior OOC communication before the first fight, on any character, on any server, against any player.

[Razgriz]

What about disarm?

Against some classes like mages it is of no use, but for some warriors losing their weapons leaves them vulnerable. Of course several chars carry an entire collection of weapons, but others do not. Another thing to consider is that any character attempting a disarm while unarmed can literally take the weapon of his opponent, or in other words, the weapon ends in the inventory of the character who had success disarming while beign unarmed. Now, imagine an unarmed monk of considerable skill disarming a fighter who is about the same level. If the fighter doesn't have a back up weapon, or a way to escape, the monk will have a serious advantage over the fighter if the pvp continues.

Truth is that classes with spells have it easier. Hold, dispell/ spell breach, or even curses and drains could come into play. Flesh to stone spell to deliver the statues to the authorities and maybe dominate/charm spells could work too.

Rogues and rangers could place traps and then tell their prey that if they move, the trap will kill them. Imagine this in an area where the only exit is covered with deadly or epic traps.

Also, who said bounty hunters had to be loners? I can see group of 2 or more trying to subdue their prey with gereater success than they would have if they were working alone.

The possibilities are many and require less roll play than one would think. Most can be done with feats, skills and spells. Rolls are not that needed, its all about being creative and having a plan that has good chances of success.

[appleseedy]

i think pvp should be taken a little more seriously. If I KD you with overwhelming force and say get up and I'll kill you that should be enough for the KD ed character to say ok fine tie me up, rather than f you i can respawn anyway when ever i want. I've said this before and while on the one hand the rules arn,t going to change cause i want em too, on he other hand as it stands being killed and death in general is a very weak penalty.

Persoanlly i would be in favour of xp loss even for raise dead/resurrection with like 40% xp and level loss for respawn.

Please note...Just an opinion not a suggestion

all I'm saying is take PvP seriously rather than force someone to kill you because you can respawn with negligible penalty.

[Charon's Claw]

My opinion, regardless of the mechanics, is that a very skilled warrior is skilled at killing. However, while they are skilled at killing they know their bodies and techniques so well that they should be able to know approximately how much the basic human form can take (i.e. commoner) before dying.

I sword fight personally, and while I can knock someone on their ass and put a weapon through a suit of metal armor, I know enough about the weapon to only give a light bruise or less to someone when I pull my punches. Food for thought.

Just an aside, since there is no mechanical subdual mode, it's best to just work with the player and communicate terms of capture and just agree on how it will go down. Saves a lot of headaches and lets each side there's no hard feelings.

[lokasenna]

Apr 24, 2014 17:15:13 GMT -5 Fenix said:

Apr 24, 2014 16:07:06 GMT -5 ren said:

First, <snip>

On both sides of the topic of subduing...


When Fenix was being pursued, two players attempted to capture him. They ended up killing him, but tied him up and raised him thereafter. Rply, he was tied up by all means, and so he could be considered to be "subdued" in such a situation. Subdual does not necessarily have to be mechanical, as much as it can just be RPed well on both sides of the team.

Now, he did also manage to escape this subdual. Twice. The first time, he stalled following them, and drew a dagger from his boot subtly. He walked along behind them and cut the ropes on his hands, then began to run. They killed him again and this time tied him up and carried him when they raised him. His method of escape the second time? He shifted into a werewolf, and caused a fear effect on both with a howl. From there, he shifted into a small creature to escape from the bindings, and ran away.

On both sides, you can account for a lot of unnamed factors, like a wizard having still/silent spell to escape being gagged or bound. You don't need a mechanic for everything.

I was actually thinking about this, but, Did you bother to consider the strength of the material used to bind him when you shifted again? I'd think that a fully bound person shifting into a larger size would suffer broken bones, crushed organs and so on and so forth..

[lokasenna]

Apr 24, 2014 22:52:19 GMT -5 @sharauvyn said:

Apr 24, 2014 20:55:31 GMT -5 StabbingNirvana said:

[ Knock down is a great example of this. Try it sometime and let us know how it goes. The several times I have, the person on the other end had gotten up and kept trying to flee or fight. With fast paced combat and no method to communicate (is: Typing) while also trying to stay alive, the lines of what could be viewed as a "surrender" are blurred. We've all dueled where we set up a damaged status limit for victory. How often does one side keep attacking the other until the realization comes through that the fight ends? And that is under friendly terms.

If skills, feats, and spells determine who could be an effective bounty hunter for a bounty that needs a person brought back alive, it limits the bounty/warrant system to few classes, basically the ones with immobilizing spells.

If I thought you were trying to kill my character because I had nothing to go on except the fact you just socked her with a KD, I can see myself having her get up and run away. If I knew what you were doing, because there was prior OOC communication, I would at least play along long enough to role play out what ever it is you tried to do next. I'd also say, though, that knocking someone down on the ground would put you at an advantage, but the struggle to tie someone up isn't over at that point. But I'd at least stick around to resolve the non-lethal combat, if I knew before you started doling out KD's that that's what you intended.

And I honestly can't think of a single PVP fight, whether friendly duel IC or lethal battle, that I've ever had a problem with when there was prior OOC communication before the first fight, on any character, on any server, against any player.

PArt of the problem is that NWN doesn't allow for grapple rules, which are pretty much standard things in PnP. If I KD you take a step back to stop the attack then type *dives on so-an-so to try and hold them down* 90% of the people on this server will either be attacking again or halfway across the screen despite the fact that a grapple is a perfectly legitimate combat move that requires no special feats to attempt.

[Deleted]

Apr 25, 2014 14:52:00 GMT -5 lokasenna said:

I was actually thinking about this, but, Did you bother to consider the strength of the material used to bind him when you shifted again? I'd think that a fully bound person shifting into a larger size would suffer broken bones, crushed organs and so on and so forth..

I agree with the spirit of what's being said here. But at the same time, I think a good rule of thumb is to give someone the benefit of the doubt, especially in favor of the survival or escape of the character in question. As much as I have an admitted bias in favor of a character who is at a disadvantage to others, it is a simple fact that if someone escapes you today, you can always try again to catch them tomorrow with no OOC hard feelings, but if you get too heavy handed, overbearing, or otherwise slam-fisted in killing or capturing someone, then at the OOC level between players, the damage is kind of done now. (A constant awareness of this is arguably part of the source of my admitted bias. ) And if a player is going to be just as sore about another person's character surviving or escaping as someone else might be about their own character's death, then all I really have to say to that is, "..."

Apr 25, 2014 15:00:03 GMT -5 lokasenna said:

PArt of the problem is that NWN doesn't allow for grapple rules, which are pretty much standard things in PnP. If I KD you take a step back to stop the attack then type *dives on so-an-so to try and hold them down* 90% of the people on this server will either be attacking again or halfway across the screen despite the fact that a grapple is a perfectly legitimate combat move that requires no special feats to attempt.

The way I've handled that personally is to do the emote first, of something like, "*throws one punch at (character X), and then ...*" and then I let the emote sit on screen long enough to be read, and then actually do the game mechanical knockdown, instead of KD first followed by emote. I've done things like that a good number of times with a number of players, and I've never had anyone get confused and respond inappropriately, not even once. Even just doing the emote first before the actual attack seems to be enough prior communication with the other player to clue them in, for some things.

[Fenix]

Apr 25, 2014 14:52:00 GMT -5 lokasenna said:

Apr 24, 2014 17:15:13 GMT -5 Fenix said:

On both sides of the topic of subduing...


When Fenix was being pursued, two players attempted to capture him. They ended up killing him, but tied him up and raised him thereafter. Rply, he was tied up by all means, and so he could be considered to be "subdued" in such a situation. Subdual does not necessarily have to be mechanical, as much as it can just be RPed well on both sides of the team.

Now, he did also manage to escape this subdual. Twice. The first time, he stalled following them, and drew a dagger from his boot subtly. He walked along behind them and cut the ropes on his hands, then began to run. They killed him again and this time tied him up and carried him when they raised him. His method of escape the second time? He shifted into a werewolf, and caused a fear effect on both with a howl. From there, he shifted into a small creature to escape from the bindings, and ran away.

On both sides, you can account for a lot of unnamed factors, like a wizard having still/silent spell to escape being gagged or bound. You don't need a mechanic for everything.

I was actually thinking about this, but, Did you bother to consider the strength of the material used to bind him when you shifted again? I'd think that a fully bound person shifting into a larger size would suffer broken bones, crushed organs and so on and so forth..

I did indeed. And some basic quality tying rope from a general store, tied in a single very thin layer around his arms and legs, would break rather easily in both a scenario where it were to be cut, and a scenario where he became a larger creature, if the change in structure of his body did not already cause it to fall off or readjust. Thus when he shifts smaller, remaining bindings would likely have just fallen off.

[ren]

Apr 25, 2014 14:52:00 GMT -5 lokasenna said:

I think having some go-to rules for some standard stuff bounty hunters would try to capture, and/or subdue. There would of course be rulings for the hunted for things they can try to escape by. So, on some basis, OOCly the hunters and the hunted are on the same page of what is going on and this will avoid hurt feelings and arguments in the future.

Both players who are the hunters and the hunted will make some very reasonable assumptions about the situation.

But those assumptions will be mostly be different and thus the ooc arguments and hurt feelings happen.

[ren]

Ok...didn't mean to use loksenna as a quote....I was going to but changed by mind. I deleted it but the post above still says I wanted to quote something lokasenna said.

Gosh my forum-fu sucks ^^;

[DOT]

idk, I personally view using respawn as a means of escaping capture as an abuse to the system and poor rp form. Who's to say the bounty hunter wouldnt remember the place where he or she himself mysteriously woke up after a traumatic event and have associates wait outside. fugitive walks out, pvp, dead. then what? im all for regulated policing in this case, but both sides have to take things in stride with respect to their opponent in mind, otherwise it just gets messy.

[DOT]

On a side note, you'd think some of these methods of binding fugitives (like a rope) would be magically enchant or something.

Also, if both agreed, then maybe rping this spell might be good as well
forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Dominate_person