Parry Question

[Entame]

I'm just curious, what negates parry bonus?

I have 11 points of parry without items, 15 with. But with my armor on i lose 8 points of parry.

I couldn't figure out why i get this penalty from the manual or skill description so i figured someone here could enlighten me.

Thanks.

Also, i have a feat (don't remember what it is) that says any effect of it will be negated by a condition that hurts dexterity. My armor has max dex bonus of 1. Without the armor i have a dex modifier of 2, with i only have 1. Is that considered a condition, or would a condition just be like poison?

[Talus]

I believe your problem is armor check penalty. Which isn't the dex bonus, but something else. Sorry can't remember what it does exactly off the top of my head.

[Munroe]

Armour check penalty subtracts that number of points (whichever number it is, dependent on armour) from the bonus to your roll for DEX-based skills. So if you have an armour check penalty of 10 (or -10, however it is written) and you have 11 points into Hide (for example) counting ranks and DEX bonus, you will be getting a bonus of 1 to your Hide check.

[kenny26]

feats that do not work when you're denied your dex bonus to AC...

being denied your dex bonus to AC is a rule that also excists in dnd, and it's one of the rules that has been carried over into nwn quite well i must say.

whenever you're unaware of an attack coming (the attacker is hiding, invisible, you're covered in magical darkness, or otherwise unable to detect the attacker [he won't show on your screen at all until he strikes]) you will be denied your dexterity bonus to your AC because, logically, you can't dodge an attack you're not aware of.

so if a feat doesn't work when your dexterity bonus is denied, you quite simply can't use it under those circumstances.

the parry skill suffers the armour check penalty, so it's mainly used by characters who don't wear heavy armours, like rouges or swashbucklers.

it's still very useful to a fighter who is caught out of his armour and has to defend himself.

[Munroe]

kenny26 said:

whenever you're unaware of an attack coming (the attacker is hiding, invisible, you're covered in magical darkness, or otherwise unable to detect the attacker [he won't show on your screen at all until he strikes]) you will be denied your dexterity bonus to your AC because, logically, you can't dodge an attack you're not aware of.

Unless you're a rogue or barbarian with Uncanny Dodge, in which case you can dodge an attack you're not aware of. Basically Uncanny Dodge I makes the character never count as flat-footed in NWN, except when paralyzed or otherwise immobilized. As an erroneous benefit, rogues and barbarians with the ability can fight unarmed without being flatfooted or incurring AoO even though they should be required to have Improved Unarmed Fighting feat to not incur AoO when unarmed.

"Rogue sense tingling! Must dodge!"

So Uncanny Dodge is overpowered in NWN because it also grants the benefit of Improved Unarmed Strike, but consider that a trade-off for what is lost: Improved Uncanny Dodge in D&D means the rogue can no longer be flanked and in order to be susceptible to a sneak attack, the character attempting the sneak attack must be 4 levels higher than the one being attacked. That's quite a bit of protection that isn't granted in NWN.

[kenny26]

yeah. it's nice to have uncanny dodge, not that the unarmed strikes it grants is incredibly overpowered or anything. it still deals less damage than a dagger which is something anyone can use (i knew nothing about the unarmed strike thingy until you posted it, but in retro spec, i can't recall ever provoking any attacks of oportunity with an unarmed strike either ).

[Keetena]

My 2 cents here out of the question (cause I play a parry fighter/bard)

- If you overpass the attack of the foe you parried it (parry skill roll)
- if you pass by 10 you make a risponse attack (only in this condition you counterattack)
- You cannot parry or do risponse attacks if you're hited by a critical (so take care who you're battling with parry mode)
- the parry moves is the numbers of attack you have in a round in that round
- No matter how many enemies are surrounding you, you still can parry different attacks from different foes
- and always remenber as said here that armor penalty applies to parry skill too

[Talus]

So the next question: Do you get to parry with your off hand in two weapon fighting. Me and Jargo were talking about it, I thought you did, but I have been watching closer and now I am not sure.

[Entame]

keetena said:

- No matter how many enemies are surrounding you, you still can parry different attacks from different foes

So i have two attacks per round, meaning i can parry 2 attacks per round. If surrounded by 5 enemies and they all attack, is that 5 attacks for the round, or can i parry two attacks from each enemy each round and all five attacks could be parried?

If it is the latter, than would having high parry be better than high ac?

[Talus]

5 orcs all swing, you get to parry two of those 5 swings. Does that answer your question?

[Keetena]

Yes, you block 2 of the five attacks as well said or 2 of ten attacks if the orcs attack 2/round

And yes, you get as many parries as attacks in both hands, I say this cause Alorde parries two attacks in his 6th level (he does 1 attack with each hand in his double-swing)

[avi]

Word from the guy who wandered in...

You can parry using two weapons, as a monk with kamas and all dual wielding feats and haste etc.. you would in theory be able to parry i think its 9 attacks a round. So a level 15 fighter with two weapons would parry 4 attacks a round.

The problem is that Bioware screwed up parry at some point and it capps out at 3 attacks per round parried. This means its only of continuable use past your 3rd attack gain if you are a wizard BAB progression as you will never have more than three attacks.

If you look on the armor table of page 176 in the original maual there is a lesting of the 8 stages of armor and what their skill check and spell failure penalties are as well. Small shields add a -1 skill penalty and 5% spell failure, Large a -2 skill penalty and 15% spell failure. I'm not sure about tower shields.

[DM Justicar - Creator of FRC]

avi said:

Word from the guy who wandered in...

You can parry using two weapons, as a monk with kamas and all dual wielding feats and haste etc.. you would in theory be able to parry i think its 9 attacks a round. So a level 15 fighter with two weapons would parry 4 attacks a round.

The problem is that Bioware screwed up parry at some point and it capps out at 3 attacks per round parried. This means its only of continuable use past your 3rd attack gain if you are a wizard BAB progression as you will never have more than three attacks.

If you look on the armor table of page 176 in the original maual there is a lesting of the 8 stages of armor and what their skill check and spell failure penalties are as well. Small shields add a -1 skill penalty and 5% spell failure, Large a -2 skill penalty and 15% spell failure. I'm not sure about tower shields.

Henny... is this your buddy? ;D

[soulfien]

I'm trying to build and experiment with a rogue using parry. He's lvl 10 now rogue/assassin (I didn't know that assassins don't get parry as a class skill so progress has been halted momentarily).

This is on another server. Since he doesn't wear armour, he suffers no penalty. He fights dual wield and has 3 attacks per round. Soon he'll have the improved two-weapon feat and then in a few levels he'll have 5 attacks unhasted.

That sucks that parry caps at 3 attacks. Ah well. I'm gonna take improved parry, skill focus parry, and epic skill focus parry. That with his mad dex and no penalties will make him untouchable except for crits and those who get more than 3 attacks a round- weaponmasters and monks.

The reason I'm building him like this is because he's not built for combat. After that first sneak attack he's vulnerable. His base strength is 10.

So if I miss my sneak attack, maybe my opponent will get tired of trying to hit me and leave