8 stat and associated skills

[archangel00]

This is not a stab at anyone.

This is not me trying to dictate rp.

If 1 post contains flames, could a DM please lock this.

Im posing a question to the community that could very easily (at least how I see it) go spinning out of control. That being said, what do you think about (ie) a pc with an 8 intelligence, but with 32 ranks in lore. Is there any real correlation between the base stat and the potential for excellence in a certain skill that is based upon that stat, or does practice truly make perfect?

My example is this. Anyone can practice shooting a basket ball into a hoop, but not everyone can be the next Jordan. I remember kids from my highschool that played ball ever since they could walk, yet never managed to make it even into college ball.

Or, is this one of those things I really shouldnt think about since we are all just playing a game. Just food for thought I suppose

Again, please, noone say "MY RP >> YOURS" because that's just silly.

[Charon's Claw]

My personal feelings ((NOT A DM RULING)) are that adventurers are greater than the norm anyway. Anyone being an adventurer is a paragon of society, even if they're only a level 6 fighter. Even though they may not be a paragon among other adventurers.

So, someone having 8 intelligence but high lore has studied and crammed and knows a great deal, but their other skills are going to hurt a lot, b/c intelligence also determines how many skill points someone even gets. If they cram lore, their other skills will suffer b/c they won't have enough to really go around, thus the limited intelligence.

But an adventurer is like a paragon, so a commoner with 8 intelligence is gonna be a slack jawed yokel, while an adventurer has seen more than a commoner can hope to.

Also NWN lore is kind of bogus, as its only function is really identifying items, where as table top PnP has various different places to put "lore" ranks. Like Knowledge (This), Knowledge (That).

As an aside I dislike negative stats, but that's just my personal preference.

[Malignant Naricissism]

I'd say it depends on the skill. For example, Ander has an average intelligence, but high ranks in spellcraft. I think this makes sense, as its a purely learned skill. A few others, I could see a difference, such as persuade. One can't exactly read a book and become incredibly persuasive, maybe a little more, but not 10 ranks or something like that. Just my line of thinking.

[DM Justicar - Creator of FRC]

I love negative stats. They can illicit some really great characters.

This *is* a rule on FRC. If you have negative stats you should write these into your role-play. If your PC is less than intelligent, they should be played as such (broken english, poor judgment, etc). If your PC is less than charismatic, they should not be good looking or at least not easy to get along with., etc, etc.

[Malignant Naricissism]

I've always thought charisma and physical attractiveness are not necessarily one in the same. I figure a person can be attractive and grumpy or shy (8 charisma), or ugly and persuasive (Abraham Lincoln was widely regarded as ugly as sin).

[EDM Neo]

I'd say that, no, there's no real correlation between a base stat and a potential for excellence in a skill for an adventurer. Obviously, someone with a poor base stat will struggle much more then someone predisposed towards it, but that doesn't mean they can't overcome their disadvantages given enough hard work.

Just to use one of my own characters as an example...

Celith has eight charisma, and he has more then twenty ranks in persuade (even after his penalty). I typically roleplay this as him being rather shy and reserved except when with close friends, and he's still a poor liar (preferring to avoid subjects he doesn't want to speak about entirely rather then making up stories), and he's not intimidating in the slightest (scrawny pale quiet elf), but when he sets his mind to it, he's a very eloquent speaker (to the best of my ability, anyway).

That said, it'd be much easier to properly represent this if NWN had more of the non-dungeoneering skills available, like different knowledges and gather information and sense motive... but even then, you can't completely overcome all low stat modifiers through skill ranks.

Someone who has low strength can train themselves to be good at swimming and climbing regardless (although not as good as someone with high strength who put the same effort into it), but they can't train themselves to lift more without actually improving their strength score. Someone with low wisdom can train themselves to be good at figuring out what other people are thinking (high ranks in sense motive), but they'll still have generally poor judgement unless they improve their wisdom score. Etc, etc.

[DM Justicar - Creator of FRC]

Apr 14, 2010 13:06:18 GMT -5 Malignant Naricissism said:

I've always thought charisma and physical attractiveness are not necessarily one in the same. I figure a person can be attractive and grumpy or shy (8 charisma), or ugly and persuasive (Abraham Lincoln was widely regarded as ugly as sin).

This gets argued all the time. It is a best judgment thing. I guess a person with 8 charisma could be good looking, but just be a real jerk so people wouldn't enjoy their company. Or vise versa, could be very ugly but have a great wit or something just making them moderately unpleasant to be around. Someone with a 6 charisma would likely be repulsive on a number if levels though, so you just have to use your best judgment.

[Levedara]

Mithika has an astounding 8 wisdom, yet i don't entirely exclude her from having insightful things to say, based on her own experiences in the field and life in general. Her particular brand of wisdom tends to be a bit.. colorful though.

I've very much enjoyed representing her lack of wisdom with highly entertaining things like complete misunderstanding figures of speech. She typically entirely misses sarcasm and often takes jokes seriously.

She also gets confused easily, one time she mixed up the labels on her potions and chugged down an inflict wound potion from the vampires when she wanted a bit of healing.

~

Mia has both an 8 con and 8 str, she gets tired quickly, tends to only participate in short jaunts and easily catches ill. She's quite frail and easily hindered, hampered and harmed.

[soulfien]

see this is problem with 3rd edition. according to the books, someone can have an 8 intelligence and still have a harvard education.

Ability scores are just base. they mean far less than they did in 2nd edition. FAR FAR less.

Skill points kind of take them over.

[828stingstingneo]

Apr 14, 2010 12:59:00 GMT -5 DM Justicar - Creator of FRC said:

If your PC is less than intelligent, they should be played as such (broken english, poor judgment, etc).

*text mingled with smileys and hearts:* Hi! I'm Selee, and I'm a wizzy and like really, really smart 'cause I can do magic (sorceress)! My common isn't broken. Heh, I'm not sure I even know what that means, but I figure if something's broken I'd find out about it 'cause it wouldn't work, you know? *giggles* Instead, I say lots and lots of stuff without like really saying anything at all, 'cause I just can't help it. It's 'cause I'm so smart, and smart people talk lots. Dumb people just say, "Me smash monster!," but I love to talk! Especially about cute boys who think I'm cute, too, especially if they have names short enough to remember. I mean, there was this one guy who kept coming into town with this pretty floaty thingy (ioun stone), and I can't remember his name, but I want one, too. Maybe if he thinks I'm cute, he'll give it to me? I have lots of pretty dresses, more than I can count (three), and they're all like so very nice. Ooh, look, shiny! . . .

//OOC Yeah, so that's how I like to play my favorite negative stat character. She may not speak in broken English, but every time I play her I can almost see the void where her brain should be, so I hope that's good enough. ;D I'm not sure how that blends with her skill points, but I'm sure if she has points in any INT based skills such as Lore, she'll just use that as another excuse to think she's smart.

P.S. I still regard Abraham Lincoln as ugly, but I agree he probably has a decent CHA. Hrm, I believe I may actually have some stats on him in another game system, and now I'm curious. Perhaps I'll have to look him up.

[DM Smass (Retired)]

In response the the OP I would offer a real life example of an idiot-savant (I realize the idiot word is not PC, just deal with it folks). In many cases these individuals have extraordinary memorization ability. They have low overall intelligence, but function at a higher level in memory, or maybe mathematics.

This kind of example is the way I would RP a low intelligence character with a high lore skill. The character is not intelligent in a general way - but he has the ability to memorize what he reads and has extraordinary powers of recall.

The key thing to remember is to RP your ability scores. Think about how your scores can frame your character's personality, then use those flaws to flesh out your roleplaying. Flaws are fun if RP-ed well.

[Savoie Faire]

*personal opinion disclaimer*

I dislike stats which produce a negative modifier as it seems to me the motivation is far more often to gain that extra 18 stat than actual characterization.

That being said, if your character has a negative modifier and you as a player attempt to portray it, I won't give you any grief over how you attempt to portray it. If you portray low charisma as repulsive appearance I'm fine with that, even though charisma is a measure of Force of Personality rather than appearance.

I could argue that sting's example reflects low wisdom more than intelligence, but then to me it's not a matter of exactly how he portrays his charactert's stat but that he does so at all.

This brings us to stats and skills: exactly why does your character focus on a skill in which he has no base ability? Rather than argue if it should be done, I would ask, "What in your character's personality or background makes taking many ranks in a skill with a low attribute a logical choice?"

I know there are infinite arguments in stats and skill choices and, that no matter how wise I imagine myself, I don't have a monopoly on proper characterization. If you have a low base ability score and high ranks in a related skill, all I ask is that you attempt to portray this as part of your character, either in his background or his play.

Examples:

A low wisdom character with many ranks in spot/listen may be paranoid.

A low intelligence character with many ranks in spellcraft may be fascinated with magic.

A low dexterity character with many ranks in pickpocket may have been a street urchin who had to steal to survive.

These examples are not exclusive nor exhaustive. You don't have to conform to my idea of what's right. All I ask is that you portray your character in some manner which makes sense to you which reflects his base ability scores and his ranks in skill.