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Post by iangallowglas on Nov 23, 2009 22:11:32 GMT -5
I usually ask the DM to raise anyone who I have killed, unless they were a mark of Onisha's. Sometimes players wait, sometimes they respawn in .5 seconds after death. Generally, when someone RPs with your corpse it's more to include you into the why than anything like using the bathroom in one's mouth, or desecrating the corpse.... as a few have done.... I really can't understand why anyone doesn't like PvP, not to pick on you Seamus. I just don't understand the difference. PvM = Player VS Monster/AI. Player fights computer generated AI that can't match what the NPC should really be capable of, IE dragons. PvDM DM controls a monster and tries to kill your character. Sometimes in order to give you a chance, in some cases I have heard about. This is PVP in every aspect. What's wrong with it? PvP. You are pitted against another character in the world who can and does sometimes represent an incredible challenge for your character. This is no different than fighting any other NPC, except they may use their abilities to the best possible outcome for them. I prefer this type of combat personally, it's difficult, and if people can remain sane, fun. I have one major point however. PvP combat should be done as often as possible with characters who are near your own abilities. Killing a lvl 6 with a lvl 25 should only be done if they strike first, or absolutely push and don't take an out that you should be allowing for. Even then, cursing, level draining, holding, harm [the spell] them and let them know you can hurt them. I don't like easy combat. It's why I never place more than one trap on the same space, too easy. Err... didn't. Oni's dead nowadays. Let me start by saying I don't feel picked on. I also never thought of the distinctions your making, so perhaps my statement that I dislike PvP is to general. I like when a DM takes over a monster to use it's abilities to their fullest to try and defeat my character and really don't mind when a character of my dies as a result. This has happened to me on FRC, and it's been fun and I find it challenging. But I never really think of this as PvP. All but one of the PvP situations I've been in are like the one you described above Onisha, where the level difference is greater than ten, with me being on the low side. My character basically just got jumped walking down the road and boom the character was dead. I guess I've never really felt like a player that initiated PvP with one of my characters was trying to increase my enjoyment of the game, only theirs. If someone decides to kill one of my characters, please have a reason to do so and bring me into the story. To date, I haven't felt that has happened, so I have a bad taste in my mouth for PvP in this kind of situation. I don't have a problem with duels either, I've just never had a character involved in one. I liked the mage duels and have been hoping someone would start a dueling tournament for warriors. I guess that's it. Oh, It's been a long time since I've been in a PvP, probably two years now, just FYI. |
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Post by Lady Frost on Nov 23, 2009 22:58:28 GMT -5
There may be one or two soon...
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Post by EDM Neo on Nov 23, 2009 23:06:41 GMT -5
I really can't understand why anyone doesn't like PvP, not to pick on you Seamus. I just don't understand the difference. I typically don't mind PvP myself, but just haven't spoken with people who do try to actively avoid it... what's not fun for some is that it can be stressful, and can lead to hurt feelings on one or both sides if not handled properly, not to mention that sorting out who knows what and so on can sometimes be a real royal pain. It doesn't always end up as troublesome, it just has the potential to, and so some people don't see it as worth the trouble. When in PvM situations rather then PvP, this isn't as much of an issue, because there isn't a fellow player who's heavily invested in their character on the other side of the screen, there's either just a simplistic AI or a DM playing as NPCs they have no strong attachments to. Personally, I don't mind PvP in general, but I can count the non-consensual duel PvPs I genuinely had a good time with after years playing here on one hand; most of the others, in the end, felt like they were more trouble then they were worth. Great fun when it does happen, but more often then not, one side gets utterly stomped and it's a totally one-sided affair... which, in my personal experience, at least, isn't fun to be the victim of and isn't fun to be the perpetrator of. |
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Post by Lady Frost on Nov 24, 2009 0:17:22 GMT -5
I suppose my last comment did not help but... let's keep on track please.
Ideas or suggestions about RP after a PvP death.
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Post by ashaffer on Nov 25, 2009 1:24:44 GMT -5
Disclaimer: The comments below are not for anyone specifically, just my thoughts on this subject... I really can't understand why anyone doesn't like PvP, not to pick on you Seamus. I just don't understand the difference. I too don't care for PvP, and feel that a lot of RP should be done leading up to it. It seems that all too often this isn't the case, and the PvP is merely a byproduct of the player initiating it being bored. If one makes sure that there is a concrete reason behind any PvP, then there won't be any bad feelings on either side. *Bump* Along with another point I would like to add: If you die in PvP. Wait! There seems to be a need to respawn right away. Many people would like to RP with their new corpse. And! Perhaps it could lead to a raise. I really do hate OOC raises and usually won't give them. But, for example, Zoe killed a PC a long time ago near the kobolds. She was going to walk to town and casually mention seeing a rather fresh body that the kobolds seemed to be taking a liking to so that someone could maybe raise them. Unfortunately, they hit respawn right away. Be patient, the RP could be interesting. If you're going to offer help in a round about way, send the player a tell, but don't use their waiting for a raise as an opportunity to RP doing things to their corpse. I view anything anyone could possible RP with their victim's body falling under the heading of torture RP, and feel that permission should be gotten from the player whose PC was killed. You might think it's fun to perform gruesome RP, but other people don't.
Also, IMO, killing someone when they're in a dungeon, or otherwise fighting monsters, is in poor taste. To me, it basically implies when you do this, that your fun is more important than the other player's fun. They're obviously are doing something for enjoyment, and if you come along and disrupt that with PvP then you shouldn't be surprised when there are bad feelings over that. |
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Post by Lady Frost on Nov 25, 2009 4:00:19 GMT -5
I do agree.
One example in regards to what I mean could be: Ted attacks Steve in town. Steve fights him off and kills Ted in self-defense. Ted respawns and logs off. That makes it tough to go to the guard, and drops a lot of immersion when the guard comes over and asks where the body is.
I know of at least one PC that had a death lead into a massive character changing moment. And it only happened because they didn't respawn and let the RP continue.
Sidenote: I would be happy to comment on RP or PvP affecting peoples "fun factor" if someone started a thread. But I'd prefer it not start here, Thank you.
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Post by EDM Entori on Nov 25, 2009 6:42:15 GMT -5
Disclaimer: The comments below are not for anyone specifically, just my thoughts on this subject... I really can't understand why anyone doesn't like PvP, not to pick on you Seamus. I just don't understand the difference. I too don't care for PvP, and feel that a lot of RP should be done leading up to it. It seems that all too often this isn't the case, and the PvP is merely a byproduct of the player initiating it being bored. If one makes sure that there is a concrete reason behind any PvP, then there won't be any bad feelings on either side. *Bump* Along with another point I would like to add: If you die in PvP. Wait! There seems to be a need to respawn right away. Many people would like to RP with their new corpse. And! Perhaps it could lead to a raise. I really do hate OOC raises and usually won't give them. But, for example, Zoe killed a PC a long time ago near the kobolds. She was going to walk to town and casually mention seeing a rather fresh body that the kobolds seemed to be taking a liking to so that someone could maybe raise them. Unfortunately, they hit respawn right away. Be patient, the RP could be interesting. If you're going to offer help in a round about way, send the player a tell, but don't use their waiting for a raise as an opportunity to RP doing things to their corpse. I view anything anyone could possible RP with their victim's body falling under the heading of torture RP, and feel that permission should be gotten from the player whose PC was killed. You might think it's fun to perform gruesome RP, but other people don't.
Also, IMO, killing someone when they're in a dungeon, or otherwise fighting monsters, is in poor taste. To me, it basically implies when you do this, that your fun is more important than the other player's fun. They're obviously are doing something for enjoyment, and if you come along and disrupt that with PvP then you shouldn't be surprised when there are bad feelings over that. I can't write much, but what I do wish to write while I have a moment. is where did the character go? we're all about the character, and everyones character has values, when they get violated enough, people do pick up a sword in this setting. especially CG. attacking while fighting monsters, hey it may seem cheap from the ooc but may be perfectly IC. as for rping to a body after death? where lies the issue, the character is not you, it's not real, and it's a complete mode of fiction. I also think it's a cop out to someone who plays an evil character, to stand up for whats good and just and all that, and when a evil character wins by doing his evil rp and catching players with their pants down then go. // Wait I don't want this! theres grusome rated R then theirs gruesome PG... there I can see people having issues with age and such, but I'm really thinking adults should be able to handle this stuff if they keep themselves properly separated from their characters |
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Post by EDM Neo on Nov 25, 2009 8:38:17 GMT -5
Just a quick note... where the people above say they don't want people to respawn so they can "do things to corpses," mind that I'm sure they don't always mean "defile the corpse" or "raise and torture the victim" or "stand mockingly over the corpse a while, and talk about how much better they are because they won."
Not always, I'm sure, but sometimes it can be for something simple, like searching the corpse for a plot-important item, or leaving a note, or carrying it somewhere it could be found more easily, with a note, or anything else along these lines... although, that said, I try to check with the other player before even doing anything like this, to make sure they don't mind it.
A while back, Celith and Lucius fought in the Necropolis... completely unexpectedly, Lucius was following Celith invisibly when he attacked the keeper of Velsharoon's shrine, and it was one of the closest fights I've seen here, really went back and forth for a while. Eventually, Celith won, and took the body to Waymoot (hidden in a magic bag), where he searched it (with wBlackspur's permission and aid), then left it in an obvious location where NPCs could find it (gave an OOC raise)... after leaving a message with him to indicate Cyricists were responsible for the attack, to try to set them and the necromancers against each other.
It didn't work, but I think it was enjoyable for both of us.
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Post by easternenterprise on Nov 25, 2009 17:17:49 GMT -5
There was a PvP I had where the defeated character had died and immediatly respawned. It was an assassination so I knew that the sudden death wasn't taken well. He was upset judging by the tone in his tells, to which I responded in kind and told him he respawned too quickly for him to have an OOC understanding as to why it occured (I'd have taken a moment to indicate such). But eventually after talking in tells he understood why and calmed down. The end. I know at one point my half dragon wants to get her claws on two people to make hide out of their flesh, to later be used as an emotionally crippling tool when the time seems right. When the day that pvp occurs, I usually consider that the other persons feelings probably wont be enthusiastic on the upcomings. With that being said, I'd likely indicate to them what my character has in mind, and they can either stay around to witness the scene that could be detailed, or they can respawn. I'm indifferent or not whether a detailed scene needs to be done, but if the other doesn't care...well lol That's a day I'm likely to offer a raise dead to the person (as long as they understand they still incure a memory loss), especially if they're going to stay around for it. Otherwise, I don't offer those things. Ive had a character that couldnt raise dead because the spellschool of conjuration was forbidden, so is it in my right to expect to be raised from the dead when Ive a character (or two), that can't do it? There's resurrection rods and rune necklaces that can raise the dead, but my characters are too zealous to use those. So what now?  |
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