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Post by HeatherRae on Sept 8, 2007 1:31:56 GMT -5
DM Munroe specifically said that the core book is the final arbiter when it comes to spell descriptors.
So, yes, Protection from Good is an Evil act - it has an Evil descriptor. And Protection from Evil is a Good act - it has a Good descriptor.
Seems pretty clear to me.
Also, I think it's important to note that many times, the world works in a specific manner regardless of how your character may believe it should or would work. This isn't Mage: the Ascension, where your beliefs determine how reality works. Reality works in a specific fashion as dictated by the PHB, whether your character agrees with it or not.
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starofthewest
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Player of Vestele Laelithar... yes, that woman is all my girlfriend's fault
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Post by starofthewest on Sept 8, 2007 1:44:53 GMT -5
Munroe, with regards to my comment about the engine, I was just talking about the specific examples mentioned and not assuming the players had knowledge of the PnP sourcebooks, and the underlying principle about magic in general with specific exceptions being unaligned. In retrospect, the comment should have been "if there's no descriptor in the rulebooks".
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Post by Munroe on Sept 8, 2007 2:32:45 GMT -5
I wasn't arguing with you, starofthewest, just making one correction. The spells in NWN usually don't have descriptors so it leads to a lot of interpretation.
The ultimate arbiter is the DM that adjudicates the individual situation, but the basic arbiter is the PHB, not the game engine. I started to say the PHB was the ultimate arbiter in my post but revised it because it wasn't quite correct.
Entori:
The spells themselves are either evil or not, the actions taken with them are either evil or not. An evil spell used to do a good/neutral thing is still an evil spell. A non-evil spell used to do an evil action is still used to do an evil action. Whether it is arcane or divine doesn't change its alignment. If the spell is evil then it is, if the act is evil then it is. Either way, the caster is doing Evil.
The question of arcane or divine has very little to do with it except for repercussions. A deity might take notice if its divine spellcaster is casting spells opposed to its alignment. Aside from paladins, which are very closely monitored, most divine spellcasters are not monitored constantly so a cleric might be able to get away with casting something several times before the matter came to his deity's attention. The gods of Faerun are not omnipotent and do not have full awareness of all the actions their worshippers take or even all the spells they grant to all their clerics daily. The cleric isn't off the hook though, they still have to answer for their actions eventually, either by moving beyond the allowed alignments of their deity or sooner if their deity notices sooner. (The more influential the cleric, the sooner the deity is likely to notice.)
An arcane spellcaster is not bound by the same concern of his use of the Weave raising the ire of a deity unless that use affects enough people to warrant a deity directly or indirectly acting to oppose him/her, or more often, the deity's clerics and faithful answering that need. His alignment may change from the use of Evil, but the repercussions are much less for that change of alignment.
As for dishing out evil points, I didn't say anything about that. That would fall to the adjudicating DM (unless it is scripted).
Not all the spells are listed in th PHB, and some of them (Isaac's Missile Storms, for instance) are not listed anywhere. Most of the ones that this is true of can be compared to existing spells or have easily defined attributes. (The Isaac's spells obviously have the Force attribute, for example.) Negative Energy Ray may exist in a book somewhere but I don't know where. However, because the other negative energy spells with similar effects are not evil, it is safe to consider that it isn't either.
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Post by EDM Entori on Sept 8, 2007 9:49:12 GMT -5
didn't mean to start a ruckus.. thanks for the clarification..
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Post by Munroe on Sept 9, 2007 0:01:53 GMT -5
didn't mean to start a ruckus.. thanks for the clarification.. You weren't starting a ruckus, I talk this way all the time.
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starofthewest
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Player of Vestele Laelithar... yes, that woman is all my girlfriend's fault
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Post by starofthewest on Sept 9, 2007 19:20:30 GMT -5
It's true, he does.
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Post by EDM Entori on Sept 9, 2007 22:06:50 GMT -5
heh I just meant.. via what was posted under posions.. the alignment would shift moreso as a clerics god would notice, as a arcane spell caster does not have said limits. its what I meant toward arcane / divine distinction... not that it should react any diffrently.. Just think divine magic is a little bit more.. gifted, rather then the weave. thanks for the help wolf
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Kain
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I am faced with Truth, only shown in the Dreary Sight of Night
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Post by Kain on Sept 21, 2007 10:39:25 GMT -5
Hm hm, all well and good. But one point is still a little fuzzy, if a wizard casts protection from good on one of my good aligned characters, do I know that he cast it? Wouldn't not knowing what he cast void me of any real consequence? I mean my paladin shouldn't fall from grace because a wizard he trusts took the liberty of casting what he thought to be a protective spell without informing me of its specific nature.
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Sept 21, 2007 10:51:01 GMT -5
If he has spellcraft, and correctly identifies the spell, then yes, the paladin would be subject to repercussions assuming he asked for the buffs. Random drive-by-buffing (while terrible RP) would not warrant you to take any negative repercussion.
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