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Post by grokan on Aug 4, 2007 6:29:03 GMT -5
Is it just me, or is this conflict between good and evil stagnating?
I mean, take for example, all the evil characters walking about openly. At some point, a good character would want to put an end to their evil acts, right?
But they don't. They go about their own business, and let evil go about its business, and don't do a thing about it.
Are you GOOD characters, or what? Or is this about killing being an evil act in itself? Aren't you all adventurers? You kill things on a hourly basis, if not more often.
And what about you evil characters? You don't have the same morals against killing as good characters, right? So you aren't going to just walk by a good character you see on the road.
Hell, I rolled up a banite cleric, went to the catacombs, and one of the first characters I met there was a cleric of Torm. Visible symbol on the shield and everything. What did I do? I attacked her and got my little level 2 arse kicked.
What's going on here? It's like everyone's afraid to fight.
I guess what I'm really trying to say here, is:
WHERE IS THE CONFLICT?
Oh, and evil? Be a little more creative. Wearing black robes or things that are supposed to be spooky... Why not just wear a sign that says "I am evil." It's getting to the point where I could attack and kill a character because they were wearing "evil" clothes, and it would be perfectly justified.
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stranglethorn
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Post by stranglethorn on Aug 4, 2007 6:44:32 GMT -5
I think you're right.. On so many levels Grokan that it is not funny anymore... I am going to wear a different type of robe, no one has it, no one will like it. Next time you see my character he's going to be unqiue. And I do kill on a whem, but you need to understand, if you want a war, evils cannot go where goodies go. MORT
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Post by Teneas on Aug 4, 2007 7:23:33 GMT -5
The only thing that I really have to say bout this at all is that there is so much more to some of the situations than just good vs. evil. Wars can be started by some of the actions.
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stranglethorn
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Post by stranglethorn on Aug 4, 2007 7:25:15 GMT -5
I dunno, but i'm to tired to respond.
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mastersenge
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Post by mastersenge on Aug 4, 2007 7:32:37 GMT -5
Well for one just being evil isnt illegal in cormyr if you arent doing something or arent caught doing something thats against the law so a good character attacking someone just because they whorship an evil god would make the good character a criminal.
The good characters dont seem to have any problem verbally assaulting evil folks or at least one evil character that i know of.
As far as what happens on the road outside of towns. I'm still kinda walkin on eggshells since the server came back so I havent just attacked or stalked any characters since then.
What you said you did in the catacombs is exactly what you shoulda done but not all evil characters have as clearly defined enemies as a banite against a cleric of torm.
As far as what evil folks wear. Yea its not usually a good idea to start out wearing the black robes and basically telling everyone youre evil before they find out another way. I wore light grey for a long time and alot of people didnt know i was evil at first but after a while it didnt matter what I wore. Even weaing white didnt make any difference at that point. Some may want to start out being open about it though and less sneaky.
It is sometimes tempting to just slaughter all good characters i see but I kinda think I would end up getting in some kinda trouble with the DMs for it if I did that.
and yea what matthew said
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Post by SlothfulCat on Aug 4, 2007 8:10:42 GMT -5
>.>
Well, as the player of PCs who have /never/ smitten an evil character or made their lives miserable at any point...
all I can say is well...
If youre happy and you know it... clap your hands.
--------------------------------------
In seriousness though... I basically think people stopped with the smitings because its freaking pointless when someone is OOC raised or hits the respawn and acts as though nothing happened... I mean, really all we get going is this endless cycle of PvP so why even start it?
What you have going on instead are things happening out of the public eye as well, with a little PvP and alot of moving like chess pieces.
However, you've said what I've been saying IC... "Oh look, walking inkblot... magic staff... necromancer!"
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stranglethorn
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Post by stranglethorn on Aug 4, 2007 8:47:20 GMT -5
I will no longer raise people oocly, if you engage in pvp with my character, and you kill me or I kill you, then respawn... I understand it's courtious, but in all truth, death isn't taken seriously as it should be and as Slothfulcat said. A cycle of endless pvp, if that is what it boils down to...
I am going to make a effort to stay away from goodlie populated areas from now on.
And just because my character wears black doesn't mean you immidiately know he's evil, and that also means you DONT KNOW WHO MY FREAKING CHARACTER IS!!!!!!
*Sighs*
MORT
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Post by Grozer on Aug 4, 2007 8:59:52 GMT -5
Is it just me, or is this conflict between good and evil stagnating? If thats what you are seeing then you arent looking close enough in my opinion. Just because there is no blatant PvP wars doesnt mean there is no conflict. I mean, take for example, all the evil characters walking about openly. At some point, a good character would want to put an end to their evil acts, right? But they don't. They go about their own business, and let evil go about its business, and don't do a thing about it. See comment above... just because you dont 'see' things right in front of you doesnt mean its not happening. Look at it this way... the FBI KNOWS the mob is operating... KNOWS what they are into... hell they are watching them conduct business... you think Tony Soprano would just out and out whack a goodie? Are you GOOD characters, or what? Or is this about killing being an evil act in itself? Aren't you all adventurers? You kill things on a hourly basis, if not more often. And what about you evil characters? You don't have the same morals against killing as good characters, right? So you aren't going to just walk by a good character you see on the road. It just isnt that simple, irregardless of the ooc points that SothfulCat raises. Hell, I rolled up a banite cleric, went to the catacombs, and one of the first characters I met there was a cleric of Torm. Visible symbol on the shield and everything. What did I do? I attacked her and got my little level 2 arse kicked. And what purpose did that serve? Sorry but having played a Banite cleric for a very long time it isnt about the battle as it about the war. Banites have an ultimate goal and randomly killing some Tormite in a dungeon for no 'real' reason doesnt necessarily support their main goals. Of course this is my opinion based on how I see Banites... I am sure there are others that would disagree. Also dont forget as a Banite, one better pick their fights and win... being beaten and looking weak is frowned upon. Banites are a hierarchy of power and strength... getting your arse kicked doesnt help at all. Its there if you look.
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Post by Grozer on Aug 4, 2007 9:06:26 GMT -5
all I can say is well... If youre happy and you know it... clap your hands. Aria is so gonna pay for doing that... In seriousness though... I basically think people stopped with the smitings because its freaking pointless when someone is OOC raised or hits the respawn and acts as though nothing happened... I mean, really all we get going is this endless cycle of PvP so why even start it? Whats wrong with the ooc raise? I do it most times... the real problem is when people dont take it to heart, they just dont let it effect them. Personally I have taken time off after most PvP killings so that the goodies get the semblence of victory. So I guess what you are saying is because there is no permadeath, why bother with the PvP... well then why wouldnt that apply to PvM? I meant why stop at just PvP shouldnt the consequences for mistake be the same? I'm rambling now... its early forget it...
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trebarruna
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Post by trebarruna on Aug 4, 2007 9:35:48 GMT -5
Good vs Evil... I don't think it is stragnat. I agree its not that visible, as when I played with Annael, and we had Raven Rift spanking everyone, and everyone trying to spank him. Heh, fun times...
But most of the times, when I play, I see the conflit happening, not so in a open conflit, but with alot of intrigue and work in the shadows, from both sides (good and evil). I have been having a blast with this, and to be able to see a bit of it from both sides makes it even better...
All this will eventually lead into open conflit, someday, and when that happens I'm gonna get myself some popcorns and enjoy! It sure is gonna be a great event!
To be honest, to me the real nasties aren't those who engange into a pvp fight everytime they see someone they dont like, but those who are able to manipulate and change the odds to themselves, and have others doing their nasty chores. Like a game of chess hehe... first we position the pieces in order to gain as much advantage as possible, then we strike.
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Post by TermaForever on Aug 4, 2007 9:49:34 GMT -5
I think someone above me (Probably Grozer) said something similar to what I'm about to say.
There are some good and some evil characters who are just going to rush out and smite anything that moves. Those kind of characters don't last long in real life and they don't last long in games either.
Ranan mentioned something about Banites. I too have a Banite cleric which I recently revived. So far the only person he has killed was a sorcerer in his party that he got annoyed with (well actually he knocked him unconcious and once he cooled off got the guy up and dusted him off to avoid the paperwork later).
Mindlessly killing people just because they follow his enemies does nothing for him. He plots. He is plotting now. (Actually i need to talk to a certain high ranking Banite about something devious).
And no, he doesn't dress subtley. He's making a statement saying the Crown has weakened enough that he doesn't have too. However, you will notice that at no point while he is dressed to kill is his face ever visible. It is always hidden under his hood and behind a mask. Thats recognition of the advantages of an alternative identity, which he also cultivates.
There is a time for smiting. Most of the time though smiting isn't going to get you horribly far unless it directly ties into something else.
That and there is the unfortunate fact that people who shoot up in levels and start killing people tend to be looked on badly unless they have a good reason for doing it.
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Post by moulinous on Aug 4, 2007 9:55:32 GMT -5
I have been on both sides and somewhere in between in some of the Old Wars of FRC. I do like PvP and find it a good test of a PC as playing vs the AI sometimes is very predictable and why almost every dungeon delver does the same thing when a end fight with a boss happens and it is suddenly being controlled by a DM. He craps his pants. The orog wizard suddenly throwing a new spell that is smarter than the AI o a dragon using a heal spell, these things are scary when a dm does it but when you are in a fight with a pc, you never know what might happen. Going good vs evil is hard to define in a real world as well. Yes, Banites are inherently evil but look at Scyyla Darkhope, a champion of Zhentarim. She started as a paladin and became evil through the guise of one who seems to me to be very Ranan-like. There was a conflict there, and yes it was in a book, but a certain Vistant comes to mind to illustrate it IG. The low level cleric example shows to remind me of a pc i took into the Catacombs that was a follower of Malar. Now he would have attacked that cleric as well while I would see the Bane cleric only attacking the other cleric of Torm when that Torminite was in a weakened state. Bane is an opportunist I think and is careful and methodical in his plotting. He is in it for the long haul. The only time I see strangeness is when a good aligned pc goes out with a evil aligned pc. I think you must remember that Forgotten Realms is first and foremost a Deity heavy world. People try and curry favor with their god because the Gods do interact with mortals quite often. I know this is getting off topic, sorry. Back to the original real quick. Now with redmist being a Bane center does this mean everyone there is evil? No. I could easily see a paladin serving in the Guard there to bring hope to the people and all that rah-rah. Likewise a lawful evil fellow joining the ranks of the PDKs as it would give him or her more power. There was an excellent book in the Harper series i think it was about a paladin who had fallen from grace and he was a high level individual. Or Quarrath(sp?) from the War of the Twins series in Dragonlance. Both are excellent examples of Evil men in good positions. Both supplied conflict without actual fisticuffs. Death in PvP to me should be a ooc raise depending on the circumstances. When I think it was Tamorua or someone who killed me and Tyruis back when we were 6th level and he was 12th he offered it but we did not take it as it was a good fight and the death should have meant something as we had a chance to get away and chose to come back to finish it. (Almost had the mangy half cur too.) I do not think perma death but I know that when a my pc is killed I try and not to play that particular pc for awhile. Maybe as short as a day or longer depending on who it was. This way PvP means something and you get the added bonus of meeting new people with lower pcs and honing your rp skills. There, hope i did not jack the thread too much, time for breakfast.
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Post by TwistedVision on Aug 4, 2007 10:01:58 GMT -5
Had to say something about evil (and good) here... 1. Both Good and Evil people have goals, sometimes the fastest way to those goals is to keep other people alive. Even if you don't like them much. 2. Being 'evil' doesn't mean being stupid and/or violent, sure you may want someone to suffer but how can they do that if they're dead? Likewise someone may actually be good but have a quick temper and be quite violent but feel bad about it afterwards. 3. Killing people proves nothing except that you are capable of it and it also tends to get people hunting for your head, which isn't the best plan in the world. 4. If I killed someone in PvP I would not raise them OOC, nor would I expect an OOC raise from them. PvP is just that, player vs player, and I personally think it cheapens the whole thing to be raised by your killer afterwards. If you must continue to play the character then take the respawn, deal with the memory (and exp/gold loss) and move on. PvP is about life and death and should be dealt with accordingly. 5. If I was doing -serious- PvP then I would expect it to be fully RP'd over a long period of time and I would then also expect to be playing for permadeath on both sides (I know its not a server rule but thats how I feel). Killing a person with little or no motivation other than 'you felt like it, because you're evil/good/whatever' doesn't tell any story, provides no RP or character conflict and mostly just makes the player feel bad. I would gladly accept a well told death after a slowly growing hatred of another PC but any fool can kill indescriminantly and pointlessly. Sorry for the rant type post but its an issue I feel very strongly about and its also a subject I think people take too lightly and engague in far too readily. Edit: Also, I've said before in a previous post but thats probably got lost somewhere... quite an important thing really: Instead of looking for a reason to PvP with someone try to look for reasons NOT to. You could try and make them look bad in front of other people, you could spread lies about them, you could try and frame them for a crime... there is so much you can do to make their life a living hell without killing someone. This increases the RP, makes the world more vibrant and gets people looking over their shoulders because they never know whats next! Think about it, you might just like it.
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Post by EDM Entori on Aug 4, 2007 10:13:38 GMT -5
yeah it kind of beats the point to be an evil character then do something stupid, get yourself caught and exposed so everyone knows.
its like morthasil, he raised dead in town, travels with dead, frankly I see anyone traveling with dead a little glowy spell target gets painted on their back as I stalk them..
AS for the conflict, all I got to say is look at sharita and rannan in a room..*TENSON*
its not all about the evil killing good.. and for the clairifcation
Good doesn't kill evil, if you kill something evil in cold blood you'll get yourself some evil points.
Good especially CG needs a reason to kill, (morally) while LG (well he killed someone the crime is Murder 1, hang him! bloooD!)
As a banite (I think) is a lawful evil god, then you'd have to act within the straints of the law..and..*points to rannan* Some do it REALLY REALLY Well...gives me the creeps..
But as Grozer said its about the war, why give yourself up at as soon as you walk in the door as a banite. you know that gives a few CG rogues a good reason to trap your bedroom door.
Everyones not afraid to fight, its just not a kill kill kill server, its about the journey not the destination..
I personally treat OOC raises as chances, I give everyone 3, or if its a diffrent situation.
I mean take the incident with the dwarf in isinhold.
Morally, he killed a few zhents good for him *pat on head*..he played with the heads, while distasteful, still banite scum... then angus came. ok..*nod nod* hand him over.. banite wants dwarf..um, that spells torture and a slow death *shity eyes* no one deserves that. you saw the lawful side, as kasur tried to diplomatically plea with angus, and you saw the chaotic side, those of us who wanted him to stay. Then in my opinion those that we're ready to toss him over, we're the Chaotic evil. and so on and so forth.. Neutrals would be the good of one is not worth the good of the many (the whole balance thing)
anyways I think that settles it. I mean thats my general picture on alignments because the DND world is not just good and evil you have chaotic and lawful in there too..which I'm only begining to understand but *looks around* I think I got it right
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Post by EDM Entori on Aug 4, 2007 10:18:41 GMT -5
oh also..
Well thats the point of respawning, and the fuge plane, (which is IC) but I have no idea how to RP there.
IF we kill you in PVP and make you respawn, well..find a way to in RP to come back, and if someone kills you in pvp for breaking a law or what not, umm.. why would you go up against them again, chances are most fights don't last over a half hour, (real life) so you'd not remember it. and you did lose experince and coin, so your hurting and lost some skill.. and coin, so someone took coin off your body.
I mean grozer has a point if your killed via PVP, play a diffrent character for awhile, while your character is recovering, I've died a few times and stayed in the inn recovering from my "wounds"
you may be at 100 hp, doesn't mean your not sore, *shrug* just diffrent options..ent..
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stranglethorn
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Post by stranglethorn on Aug 4, 2007 11:03:50 GMT -5
I believe, sometimes that there really isn't stuff going on, but playing a evil character and when Mort was somewhat good, I got to know alittle about the elves of the Hullack, and now I know abit about Lilith and her bunch.
It is in all how you see it. While some figure it to be nothing but petty mind games, but I feel that there is something going on in FRC, and the evils and goods will clash.
And hopefully when that day comes. Mort will be ready. ^_^
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mourndarkv
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Post by mourndarkv on Aug 4, 2007 11:08:06 GMT -5
The very best bad guys, are the ones who few know are bad.. no matter how long they've been around. OR, the ones like Ranan who can be evil as hell and still get by with it. The very best good guys are the ones who are very open about it, obviously and openly good. I see it, in many layers here. The server has swung from open "Kill them all" G V. E.. to a very subtle game of chess, which Lh mentioned. I prefer the subtle side of evil. Being a huge Star Wars fan.. I prefer the seductive side of evil. Thus, I play mostly Sharian based baddies. I mean, Shar is one of 3 Divine Rank 18 Gods for a reason. (Thats right boys and girls, Mystra, Tyr and Shar. Chaunea is a Class 19.. but even she was created by Shar and Selune. Lol.) THe best times, are when Good characters come to realize that someone they knew, know.. and have helped.. is a really, truely.. evil person. Its just a kodak moment. However, it takes a lot of b*lls to be low level and openly vile. I give anyone a on and a half of cred that can pull it off and get anywhere. ;D
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Post by Grozer on Aug 4, 2007 11:25:40 GMT -5
AS for the conflict, all I got to say is look at sharita and rannan in a room..*TENSON* I cant emphasize this one enough. Sharita and Ranan have NEVER fought one on one.. though we have been part of larger battles. For me some of the greatest RP moments has been our interaction trying to out-think her and make her look foolish in the eyes of the people, what would be worse for a Paladin? As a banite (I think) is a lawful evil god, then you'd have to act within the straints of the law..and..*points to rannan* Some do it REALLY REALLY Well...gives me the creeps.. Thank you Entori. Side note and off topic but important of itself... I have heard Lawful referred to many times as an alignment which follows laws. For the most part this is true, but I would suggest you need to put that in context. Ranan doesnt act out because he is lawful... he does NOT care a thing for the laws of the Crown. In the context of a Banite its a clear discipline, order and laws of Bane's rule that shape his decisions. His laws. Anyway I wont derail this further though if anyone wants to discuss alignment more, let me know....
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Post by Grozer on Aug 4, 2007 11:29:25 GMT -5
AS for the conflict, all I got to say is look at sharita and rannan in a room..*TENSON* I cant emphasize this one enough. Sharita and Ranan have NEVER fought one on one.. though we have been part of larger battles. For me some of the greatest RP moments has been our interaction trying to out-think her and make her look foolish in the eyes of the people, what would be worse for a Paladin? Hey almost forgot to mention... Ranan once corrupted one of Sharita's most promising squires. I am sure that effected her more than actually killing her... especially when this squire become Ranan's apprentice and answered to his every command.
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Post by TermaForever on Aug 4, 2007 13:14:45 GMT -5
Side note and off topic but important of itself... I have heard Lawful referred to many times as an alignment which follows laws. For the most part this is true, but I would suggest you need to put that in context. Ranan doesnt act out because he is lawful... he does NOT care a thing for the laws of the Crown. In the context of a Banite its a clear discipline, order and laws of Bane's rule that shape his decisions. His laws. Anyway I wont derail this further though if anyone wants to discuss alignment more, let me know.... Oh good someone else agrees with me. I know that -my- lawful evil character follows laws (for the most part) of the land simply because not doing so at the moment would not help his longevity. There is a reason I never play a character with less than 10 intelligence ;D
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Post by grokan on Aug 4, 2007 14:45:56 GMT -5
Strangle_Thorn, I didn't mean any of this as a direct attack against you, so don't take it as such.
I guess most of what I was saying, and most of the posts here have only worked to clarify this, is that all the conflict on the server has gone to politics between high levels. Low level evil characters don't do anything evil until they become high enough level that they can do it openly without having a fighting chance against those that would arrest them (or at least get away). High level characters don't do any evil openly. Good characters don't react to any evil they see.
There's a tension between the higher level good and evil characters, because nobody there wants to start anything because it would mean war. At low levels, sparks should be flying. Enemies should be being made. Threats should be made (and carried out), as a good character I shouldn't be able to insult an evil character and get away with it for long. At least, not unless I'm an epic level dwarven defender merchant that everybody wants to keep on his good side or else he stops doing business with them ;D
Yes, someone's made their point about evil characters don't have to kill a good character to make their life hell. And I see a lot of evil characters in groups around isinhold, speaking in their secret language, plotting, but I don't see a lot of plots being carried out.
I had a point in there, but I think it got lost on its way. Anyway, as I said, I'll grant a lot of points made by other posters on this thread. But I still think there should be more clashing, more going on at the lower levels than the good and evil characters going their own ways, levelling up until they can do their good or evil openly without getting killed. I mean, hell, some of you evil characters, pick on Alaria. I know some of you guys have to have heard her speaking out for the greater good (and getting into quarrels with some other goodlies for it).
Most conflict starts with a difference of opinion. How the character reacts to the difference in opinion is defined by his morals. Do they shrug it off and go their separate ways? Doubt it, unless they're both good characters and the difference is inconsequential. I mean, there's a phrase I've just waited to hear when I see a good vs. evil interaction. "I'm watching you. If you try anything, anything at all, I'll be right there to bring you in."
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Post by Traziun on Aug 4, 2007 15:10:15 GMT -5
It seems like these days, the only evil characters anyone sees as "legitimate" are the scheming, thoughtful sorts. While they certainly fit into evil too, why can't we respect someone who's more stupid and violent? Someone who follows base and simple wants, and follows direct and horrifying means to get them has always seemed just as legitimate to me; you can never be sure when they're going to snap. We may as well ban chaotic evil PCs altogether if their types aren't allowed.
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mourndarkv
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Post by mourndarkv on Aug 4, 2007 15:29:00 GMT -5
Chaotic evil is almost always doomed. Lol.
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Post by wynter on Aug 4, 2007 15:44:10 GMT -5
lot of good points being made here,playing an evil girl myself who would love to see more good vs evil cvc but what are you supposed to do, picking a fight any where near a city unless your a mass crit type charecter or spell chucker usally means jail or the hangmans noose and anyone with any int doesnt want that.would be nice if maybe npc bodies stayed on the ground so you could kinda force the othersides hand,insults can only do so much wipe out a church or an outtpost or two ;D and then see what happens
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ManyAsOne
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Post by ManyAsOne on Aug 4, 2007 15:55:49 GMT -5
Strangle_Thorn, I didn't mean any of this as a direct attack against you, so don't take it as such. I guess most of what I was saying, and most of the posts here have only worked to clarify this, is that all the conflict on the server has gone to politics between high levels. Low level evil characters don't do anything evil until they become high enough level that they can do it openly without having a fighting chance against those that would arrest them (or at least get away). High level characters don't do any evil openly. Good characters don't react to any evil they see. This is really far from the truth. Actually, I'd like to point out the best kind of evil is the one no one knows about. I know of evil characters who are actually working very grand schemes that are seeing fruit at level 5. I see good players responding to evil all the time. Granted, they don't just stab some evil dude in the middle of the street in the middle of town, but they do react. I've seen many evil plans unravel in my day. After a certain point, that's what it is supposed to be like. Open war is an ugly thing and a lot of high-level PCs see it as something to be avoided, prefering guile and subtlty. Just because you aren't hearing these threats doesn't mean they aren't there. There is a lot going on that most don't know about. Not everything is just going to get laid out to the public. And, as far as insulting an evil character goes... Well, I don't know if you're being serious or not, but evil doesn't mean stupid. If an evil guy is insulted, likely he'd just as soon shrug it off because, I don't know if you know this, but murders tend to get noticed. Again, that's the point. There are countless good plots that PCs are driving on as we speak. And, considering many are run by evil folk, chances are you're not supposed to see them carried out. What evil genious wants to have the heat on them before they can complete their doomsday deathray? I can't stress this enough. You seem to be hooked on the idea that if you don't see it, it doesn't exist. Trust me, it does. So, evil is out there. You're either, A. not looking hard enough or, B. not looking hard enough. This is going to be my first and last post here because I've pretty much said all I need to. If you're looking for conflict, you should go make it. I, personally, think its easier to promote conflict in-game than on in OOC thread...
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Post by SlothfulCat on Aug 4, 2007 16:42:09 GMT -5
all I can say is well... If youre happy and you know it... clap your hands. Aria is so gonna pay for doing that... In seriousness though... I basically think people stopped with the smitings because its freaking pointless when someone is OOC raised or hits the respawn and acts as though nothing happened... I mean, really all we get going is this endless cycle of PvP so why even start it? Whats wrong with the ooc raise? I do it most times... the real problem is when people dont take it to heart, they just dont let it effect them. Personally I have taken time off after most PvP killings so that the goodies get the semblence of victory. So I guess what you are saying is because there is no permadeath, why bother with the PvP... well then why wouldnt that apply to PvM? I meant why stop at just PvP shouldnt the consequences for mistake be the same? I'm rambling now... its early forget it... Yeah, nothing wrong with an OOC raise... I dont always give them, but once in a while I do. ANd it wasnt about there being no perma-death ((I have played on a permadeath server, and yes it was for extended period of time)) its more about situations similar to this... Player A, brings the wrath of Player B's character down on his head... gets offed... clicks the respawn, then walks right back out of the healer's and keeps going. ((I've seen this and have thrown Player A in a cell so dont try it!)) Its like how when Aria /actually/ duels, she wants terms on the outcome... "I win, you cease... you win I leave for X time". Thats what I'm saying when I say the kind of PvP Grokan is talking about is pointless... this is a Role Play server, not an arena. The PvP should follow Role Play, and be followed by roleplay. Random ganking because someone is evil or good without any interaction is just... meh... See the difference now? Grozer, you, take the character out of play for a few days.. thats recognizing the PvP occured, and role playing the consequences. Which to /me/ is more fullfilling and more fair that just offing someone permnantly in PvP because I've been on the server longer... (Can you say ALFA?) Only permadeath on here I'd like to see is as an option that the "states" portrayed in the setting can turn to when someone just repeatedly breaks the law to the point of ridiculousness. alah... "Oh hey Joe... shot your old lady in the head again? Ahh well we missed the company, glad you came back again this month"... if you see my thoughts there.. not going to try to push them.
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Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Aug 4, 2007 16:50:41 GMT -5
*shakes his head at the people and goes back to working on his deathray*
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Post by moulinous on Aug 4, 2007 16:51:52 GMT -5
It seems like these days, the only evil characters anyone sees as "legitimate" are the scheming, thoughtful sorts. While they certainly fit into evil too, why can't we respect someone who's more stupid and violent? Someone who follows base and simple wants, and follows direct and horrifying means to get them has always seemed just as legitimate to me; you can never be sure when they're going to snap. We may as well ban chaotic evil PCs altogether if their types aren't allowed. Because those people are normally dealt with quite quickly in a border town I would think unless you never plan on being in town.
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Post by canuckkane on Aug 4, 2007 16:51:57 GMT -5
This is how evil boils down for me... feel free to add anything I've missed, and I'll accept any constructive criticism... emphasis on CONSTRUCTIVE.
There are two types of evil... smart evil, and stupid evil.
Smart evil is the type that wants to appear to have your best interests at heart will put their arm over your shoulder and comfort you when you need it so that you won't notice them positioning the knife at your back.
Stupid evil are the types that openly declare themselves so through blatent hostility, murder, etc. These types are the ones that are KNOWN evil, and often die a very quick death.
As for good characters... well... good people don't commit murder... and killing without provocation is murder plain and simple, regardless of whether someone is evil or not. Keep in mind also that dark colours, black, etc do NOT make for evil characters. I am a good person at heart and I have worn black jeans, t-shirts, etc. all my life... appearances can be decieving folks.
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Post by wblackspur on Aug 4, 2007 17:41:01 GMT -5
The road to hell is paved with Good intentions, not evil ones. To me the most evil act is to inspire others to follow in your evil footsteps. My pc is not openly hostile to anyone. In fact quite the opposite. He goes of of his way to aid people when there is little or no gain to be had for it just for the sake of them recalling he helped them. When I first came on this server there were not many openly evil pc's at all. Now there are many. I like to think I helped inspire some of them, but that is just me having a big head. However, the bottom line is that evil pc's are only here to be a foil for the goody-goodies. This is a fantasy game. If evil won all the time it would be a horror game. Not that evil pc's are not fun to play. Far from it. Evil is waaay fun, but playing evil lacks the longterm feel good aspect of fighting the good fight and winning even though the other side does not play fair. The hero of any work of fantasy is seldom the uber-noble with tons of power, but the lil guy who fights against all odds and wins the day, more often than not because he is the chosen one or some such rubbish, but my point is the protagonist is the underdog. Being an evil pc is not being the underdog, no matter how I would like to view being persecuted for wearing black , nor how many times I get called inkblot. The botomline is that this server tolerates evils to give the good pc's something more challenging than a computer controlled orc shaman to fight against. And I ,fer one, enjoy filling that roll, even though I am sort of waiting fer finger of death before I run amok pvp , give my victim an ooc raise and a polymorph potion and try to talk them into rp'ing being a zombie til it wears off. See ya IG.
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