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Post by DM Grizwald on Mar 1, 2006 10:08:50 GMT -5
Heres something i've always wondered how it worked. For example,
A group of three is fighting a really tough bad guy and two of the three drop dead. The last remaining fighter finds away to get away from the really tough baddie then eventually sticks around long enough to get a chance to raise the other two. The group ends up finally killing the really tough baddie.
After this whole mess, because of that one players actions the whole group gets lawful points. This is where i dont understand, how can being dead the whole time end up in you becoming more lawful. As a druid i have to stay neutral one way or another and getting lawful points from other players does not help to much. If someone could explain how this makes sense in me becoming more lawful because of someone else that would be great. Thanks
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Post by Aodhan the Unusual on Mar 1, 2006 10:20:10 GMT -5
I personally have not changed a person's alignment, but it may be because of being in a party. One person's alignment changes, they all do sort of thing.
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Mar 1, 2006 10:31:28 GMT -5
DM Aodhan is right on track. What as happened is that a DM has wanted to award a particular player in a party for acting responsibly (lawfully) and awarded them points. Unfortunately, when any player in a party is awarded any points to any alignment, this does affect the whole party. To some characters this may actually be a punishment. It is one of those kooky mechanics things that is sort of a side effect of that particular DM wand. I will be certain to mention this in the DM forum. I assure you no one was trying to mess with your head or anything, I think just an honest mistake.  |
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Mar 1, 2006 11:45:58 GMT -5
The easiest way to resolve this would be if the dm is going to award alignment points to a particular character that they ask you to break party for a moment, award party, and reform.
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Post by DM Grizwald on Mar 1, 2006 11:53:54 GMT -5
DM Aodhan is right on track. What as happened is that a DM has wanted to award a particular player in a party for acting responsibly (lawfully) and awarded them points. Unfortunately, when any player in a party is awarded any points to any alignment, this does affect the whole party. To some characters this may actually be a punishment. It is one of those kooky mechanics things that is sort of a side effect of that particular DM wand. I will be certain to mention this in the DM forum. I assure you no one was trying to mess with your head or anything, I think just an honest mistake. yeah its not very hard to mess with my head...trust me. And i was wondering if i could get neutral points back too? ...if its not a problem of course (for padrin) |
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Post by Munroe on Mar 1, 2006 15:00:07 GMT -5
If a single player in a party is awarded 5 alignment points, everyone in the party gets either 1 or 2 point shift, I forget which. This is an effect of being partied with the player because of a conscious choice.
If your character is really neutral, party with some chaotic people somtimes too and it will all balance out. Such are the risks when a druid marries a paladin.
Honestly, though, in the situation you just described, that would sound more like Good points than Lawful to me. Going back to save your friends is a Good action, not always a Lawful one.
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Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Mar 1, 2006 15:07:40 GMT -5
Thats up for a bit of debate Munroe ... it depends on the character. If I am a mercenary that respects the laws of a contract and I would be abondoning my job if i didnt save those people, then that would be a lawful decision if i went back to help them (especially if i really didnt like them), but it would be a good thing if they were my friends and i was doing it out of the goodness of my heart. Depends on the char i say.
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Post by Munroe on Mar 1, 2006 15:13:07 GMT -5
True. Arguably, a CE character might even do it because they're chaotic.
Personally, I wouldn't be inclined to give an alignment shift in that situation though. Most characters are going to try to save their party, even if it's only to their own advantage.
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Post by gathera on Mar 3, 2006 10:46:20 GMT -5
When you received the modification of alignment it might also be viewed as the following, at least to my mind. A character alignment should reflect there actions and also who they associate with. Sort of a word by mouth reputation thing. To my mind at least even if the stats say for example evil but you travel with a group of other characters doing good works for long enough then word of mouth build about you (slowly). Your alignment should also slowly change to reflect that. People would start to associate you with certain actions. Obviously fall in with a bad crowd and slowly your reputation (alignment) changes sort of what Vind was likely going through. I have had it happen before when grouped in a party. Merri did something and it changed by a point. Guilt by association thing. Anyway that is my two cents worth.
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Post by Grozer on Mar 3, 2006 12:53:00 GMT -5
Alignment itself is a reflection of your actions. Your reputation is what other people perceive of you... completely different in my book. So I have to disagree. I haven't heard of evil characters partying with goodies then receiving good alignment points... but based on that logic they should. However good characters partying with an evil PC have received evil points which I dont believe they should unless their, here's the key, their motivation or actions while partying are deserving of a shift. The same holds true for lawful/chaotic and neutral.
People can presume all they want about you, but that doesnt necessary change what "you" are or will do given a specific situation. IMHO THAT is alignment, it reflects your individual actions and/or motivations behind those actions.
More to the point, I dont believe the party should necessarily get an alignment shift from the actions of a single individual just because they are in party.
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Post by marklar on Mar 3, 2006 20:18:35 GMT -5
More to the point, I dont believe the party should necessarily get an alignment shift from the actions of a single individual just because they are in party. i kinda disagree. i think they should if they all make a choice. like i remember once when chril was first becoming evil and he got cursed and we had nothing to get rid of it. so he told us (us being me, padrin and...i think vis and jorban) to kill him and raise him. now i think that's a pretty chaotic thing to do. had we have killed him and raised him back i would expect had a DM been watching us we would get chaotic points. |
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Post by Grozer on Mar 3, 2006 22:06:15 GMT -5
More to the point, I dont believe the party should necessarily get an alignment shift from the actions of a single individual just because they are in party. i kinda disagree. i think they should if they all make a choice. like i remember once when chril was first becoming evil and he got cursed and we had nothing to get rid of it. so he told us (us being me, padrin and...i think vis and jorban) to kill him and raise him. now i think that's a pretty chaotic thing to do. had we have killed him and raised him back i would expect had a DM been watching us we would get chaotic points. Well based on the actions you describe actually you are "agreeing" with me. Each of you carried out the action, each of you committed the chaotic act and therefore earned the alignment points yourself... see? What if one of you said "hey I wont do that cuz there has to be a more logical way" and the others in the party did it anyway... should YOU also receive the alignment shift just because they did it, i.e. guilt by association? I would say no. Of course we can argue whether that was a chaotic act or not, but that is for another topic... |
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Post by DM Grizwald on Mar 3, 2006 23:02:20 GMT -5
More to the point, I dont believe the party should necessarily get an alignment shift from the actions of a single individual just because they are in party. i kinda disagree. i think they should if they all make a choice. like i remember once when chril was first becoming evil and he got cursed and we had nothing to get rid of it. so he told us (us being me, padrin and...i think vis and jorban) to kill him and raise him. now i think that's a pretty chaotic thing to do. had we have killed him and raised him back i would expect had a DM been watching us we would get chaotic points. holy smokes i remember that...that was a long time ago. Yeah im going to agree with grozer with this one but i think every stiuation can also be looked at differently |
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racestark
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Post by racestark on Mar 4, 2006 17:20:40 GMT -5
I remember that, too. Except Chril eventually got Vis to do it. Atticus kept trying to talk them both out of it arguing they didn't know the nature of the curse and didn't know what would happen when they went through with it. They eventually refused to listen and went through with it. When Vis raised him, she suddenly dropped dead herself.
Now I don't know if that's programmable, but I doubt it and my guess is a DM was watching and made Vis the curse's victim. As far as I know, no one got an alignment shift for that.
Now should we have? Maybe. Maybe them for the action and maybe Atticus for his constant association with them.
Now, I know OOC Chril and Visitant have a very unpleasant reputation of late. IC, Atticus had no clue they were going sour until just after it became public knowledge something was amiss with them both, at which point I went on my 'hiatus' and Atticus went back home.
Should Atticus have gotten evil points for associating with them even though he was clueless? It did happen once before. Chril was in Redmist and Atticus was taking the road from Isinhold. We both had been partied together at the time and he had gone ahead while Atticus took care of something in Isinhold before meeting up. Half-way through the trip, I see a message in my right dialog box telling me my alignment had shifted one point toward evil. I thought that was odd and sent Chril a 'tell' asking him about that. If I remember correctly, he did, but he either couldn't, or wouldn't, tell me what it was for. Either way, the server crashed before the next save and that was that, I guess, because I got no shift again when I re-logged.
That could have been a DM awarded alignment shift or an NPC quest that shifts a PC's alignment depending on their conversation choices. I don't know.
So to sum it up, Atticus, at least, gets no alignment shift when he stands by and watches as a friend foolishly, in his opinion, kills another. On the other hand, he's not doing anything except walking down the road and gets an alignment shift because, my only guess is, something his friend did in the next town over.
*shrugs*
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Post by olwentheold on Mar 7, 2006 6:15:26 GMT -5
Well I would say yes and no to what Grozer said. I personally think it would depend on the situation.
I like the fact that the alignment system forces the players to take into consideration who they party with.
For example: If a party of lawful gooders travelled with a lunatic homicial maniac who ran around killing villagers and stood there doing nothing but a few verbal protests, I would likely be all for awarding the person (focused on the offending homicidal maniac) a few Chaotic and Evil points - where a few pts will cross over to the rest of the LG party members.
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Post by Grozer on Mar 7, 2006 7:41:19 GMT -5
Yes very true, I probably oversimplified it. The outcome really does depend on the situation and the reaction of each character. In the situation you describe those LGs deserve the shift if they knowingly allow that behavior to continue.
I guess my point was more along the lines of being in a party should not automatically grant you aligment points. Alignment shifts are a result of decisions, actions and reactions the character makes to situations. So in the case of when Ranan was still unknown as a Banite/evil, he partied with Manshin alot who was never sure of Ranan's motivations. I would never expect Manshin to receive evil points just because he was in party with Ranan.
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