DM Q&A: Spell: control undead

[soulfien]

during a few conversations with other spellcasters, before my computer broke, a few times control undead was brought up and how effective it is for evil people.

Everyone kept referring to it as an evil only spell, but upon looking at its stats, it's not an evil spell. It's not creating undead (by the use of create undead or simply animate dead- which is pretty much the same thing), it's controlling existing undead to fight for you.

My opinion is that it's the same as dominate person or monster which aren't evil spells either.

What is the staff's position on it? If I use control undead will I get evil points if a dm sees me?

[ChrilWavingdark]

Don't get any ideas

[soulfien]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Damn! There goes that plan!

[Dachshund]

In my book, creating or controlling undead is the same thing. No matter how you put it, you're messing with someone who used to live... you're messing with someone who used to be a person.

It should as a minimum make you lean towards neutral. I don't think any person who truly plays their Good alignment would think it an act of goodness to control someone who was once alive and sentient.

Now, I play an elf and they notoriously hate all undead, so I may be biased. But Vinduil would never do such a thing.

[Kharn597]

Another way to think of it, rebuking and control dead are pretty similiar. Only evil priest can rebuke(someday maybe?) undead while good priest turn undead returning them to thier rest.

[soulfien]

could I get a DM's opinion on this?

[hexer]

You sure can. I would have to say that controlling the undead is an evil act. You do not actually create it, thus you're not bringing negative energy into the world, but you are toying with the earthy remains of another being and that, without a doubt, is not goodly.

You're not making undead, but you're using them which is just as bad.

[soulfien]

thanks Hex I'll be good then and not use it.

[Munroe]

This is one of those points on which I would disagree with Hexer. My view is that the use of Control Undead would determine whether it was evil or not. If you are using Control Undead, you are not making or summoning the undead so it comes down to whether you're using Control Undead to send undead against a town or stop undead from killing someone.

I was hoping players would speak regarding this in-game and I'm somewhat disappointed that it was asked on the forum.

Control Undead only grants a mindless automaton if its mindless.

[soulfien]

well, I wasn't wanting a rp discussion about it. If someone wants to start one they can, but I just wanted a clear cut "is this allowed or not" from the DM's

[Munroe]

Then, for the time being, you're at an impasse.

[soulfien]

lol! fair enough

I would have posted a longer response, but as soon as I started typing I had to get up and deal with something. urgg...

Basically, what I want to know and I'll be patient and wait until a decision is made, is whether Control Undead is to be deemed as Dominate Person (evil based on intent) or Necromantic (Evil by the forces at work).

That's why I felt it was best to post here rather than in a players' forum.

Thanks in advance

[Munroe]

This topic is in DM discussions. When a decision is made, the answer will not be posted here because the answer to this question will very likely require a skill check with a DM in-game. What skill check and what DC is also in discussion among DMs.

Generally speaking, a desire to employ undead is Evil. Specifics that necessitate employing undead would require individual adjudication.

Until such time as this response can be expanded, I am locking the thread.

[Munroe]

OK, I believe this issue has been resolved among DMs.

As I said previously, the answer will not be discussed in the thread but will require a skill check, which has also been determined.

I'm also not discussing the DCs for that check, or even what skill it is. If you fail your check, the DM may provide misleading information. ;D