DM Q&A: Language: Thieves Cant: Initial or Bonus?

[ShadowCatJen]

I know the standard way of things is that beyond what a characters initial languages are (for race/region) they are allowed additional bonus languages equal to their current Intelligence modifier.

My main question is: Does thieves cant count as a bonus language even to one starting as a rogue?

Currently asking this because I have a half-elven rogue (Mynian, of course) who I'm going to be asking the language tokens for. If the cant is considered a bonus language then I need to be very selective as to what additional languages I'd like her to know.

I suppose the extended question would be is if the local thieves cant can be read by those who come from other areas? As a rogue I automatically can see what is being "said", but I'm currently ignoring the fact as I don't know what the official thought on it is.

[Retired DM Munroe]

By the book rules, it is a bonus language but since every rogue gets it automatically in NWN, enforcing it as a bonus language would be a chore, especially for rogues that don't want it.

I usually play both of my characters (who have rogue levels) as having a vague idea something is being communicated, but not having the inclination to attempt using the Cant themselves. If I could take the ability to understand it from my characters, I might be inclined to do so, especially from the character with only one rogue level. However, as a "code" it is pretty lousy when two people are standing around pulling their ears, shifting slightly, and glancing around, or whatever. It's pretty obvious.

As a note, it is my opinion that proper nouns should not be used in Thieves Cant at all. Anyone with an understanding that they are communicating to each other should be able to pick-up proper nouns since Thieves Cant isn't morse code and proper nouns don't translate well to *tugs his ear*.

[Retired DM Aodhan the Unusual]

Actually, proper nouns could be used in theive's cant by a subtle pointing or gesturing if subject(s) are in the area. If not, then it becomes a problem.

[ShadowCatJen]

Thanks for the clarification on whether it's initial or bonus here on FRC. ^_^

Thanks also for the slight suggestion. I mean, tugging your ear in someplace like Luskan may mean "go steal", but it may mean "go kill" around Cormyr. I've always imagined that there's a basis for all thieves cant, but it would vary from area to area. I have the token now, but I think I'll have her slowly, but surely, figure the local cant out over more time and maybe a little guidance.

I could go on about how I've never been too fond of the way the cant is done with the tokens. I prefer a more verbal form of it, but to have anything more sophisticated would require quite a bit of heavy scripting, sooooo......

;D Thanks again!

EDIT: Actually a friend of mine just brought up a point. Thieves Cant really should vary from guild to guild. But again, scripting on that would be a major chore. However, if the members of the guild are so willing to put the effort into it, they could all learn something like this www.thievesguild.cc/cant/cant2english.php.

[heimdall]

Thieves Cant really should vary from guild to guild.

Two thieves from two different areas/guilds trying to communicate via the 'cant'....I imagine it would be like watching two baseball coaches trying to communicate with each other through their signals alone.

However, if the members of the guild are so willing to put the effort into it, they could all learn something like this
www.thievesguild.cc/cant/cant2english.php.

That would be interesting to watch and I'd go so far as to say you wouldn't need be 'thieves' to work on developing a set of hand signals and/or code words.

[DM Grizwald]

"Two thieves from two different areas/guilds trying to communicate via the 'cant'....I imagine it would be like watching two baseball coaches trying to communicate with each other through their signals alone. "

I just think that complicates more...the way i see it and how its set up, the "cant" is a universal language that any common theif would know with past experience in a thieves guild. Like in Ocean's Twelve in the restorant scene when they talk nonsense, well at least to the people who arnt theives, but only the 4 at the table know whats going on because of a universal theive language.

I'd also like to state DM Aodhan is the most wonderful, perfect, and greatest DM of all for being nice and not deleting this post or making me look like too big of an idiot for posting under someone else's question. THank you DM Aodhan.

- Love ya Clark.

[Retired DM Aodhan the Unusual]

"I just think that complicates more...the way i see it and how its set up, the "cant" is a universal language that any common theif would know with past experience in a thieves guild. Like in Ocean's Twelve in the restorant scene when they talk nonsense, well at least to the people who arnt theives, but only the 4 at the table know whats going on because of a universal theive language."


While this is true, Clark, each individual guild, just like each individual land, and even city, has it's own "Dialect." Take the USA... You have the Ohians that put an R in where it doesn't belong (they say things like "warsh" instead of "wash), the Bostonians that seem to replace R's at the end of words with H's (They say things like "Cah" instead of "Car"), or the southerners who you can barely understand because of thick accents, quaint termonolgy, and the ability to talk faster than the buzz of a mosquito. It's because of this that, yes, while there may actually be a universal thieve's cant, there are many versions of it that individual guilds may pick up, twist, etc. so that they can still talk business to their guild mates and not broadcast it to every other theif around.