Kaelyth
New Member
Can't see the forest for the trees.
Posts: 95
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Post by Kaelyth on Apr 22, 2022 18:22:15 GMT -5
So I am trying to tie up some of the deeper backstory points on Kaelyth, however I am really running into some lore contradictions and issues with knowing what is considered "canon" i.e. correct lore pertaining to elves in general and specifically Wild Elves. To sum it up before I get too wordy, this is an issue with contradictions in both written 3/3.5e supplements and with lore on elves found amongst the "interwebs". Is there a method for writing/creating a really in depth backstory and running it through an approval process to make sure that it "jives" with our server and in general makes sense? This is something I knew would be an issue because Wild Elves have always been a sub-race I hold close to my heart, but some of the information on them is left vague at best (which I know is usually a benefit to players and DMs in PnP, but can cause chaos in a game with more players and structure like we have here). Recently I have had some awesome interactions with other Sy-tel-quessir, and they seem to know a lot of the deeper lore as well, and seeing that they are already very established here on the sever, I would hate to have a lore conflict I guess. I know I might be over thinking this, but I promise it comes from the best of places and is just me wanting to make sure I do both the community/server proper justice when it comes to the roleplay and background of my flagship character. I appreciate all opinions and suggestions in advance!  |
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Post by styxxbone1 on Apr 22, 2022 23:21:22 GMT -5
Furin could fill you in on all things Elfish and Witch-ish...  styxx |
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Post by Runa Rothgar on Apr 23, 2022 0:03:14 GMT -5
The good thing about wild elves are that they are -are- vague and open for easy backgrounds than you might think. :3 With Stacia, my elfy sorc from Evermeet, House Ther'Revar is a made up house, but it's nothing major and when Rpng with other people of Evermeet, I just state that they might know the house and it's one that specializes in wizardry. That's my only 'conflict' but I keep it simple so players don't have to try and study a 3 page essay on House Ther'Revar. With Wild elves, since they are even more recluse than Wood elves, they can be from anywhere that inhabits woods or close too without much conflict. They don't have big named cities or villages. You can almost pick a forest on the map and say she is from deep within a small community of a tribe. Slap on a cool Elvish name to your tribe and blamo. You can really go to town or should say go 'wild' with Wild Elves and just about build your elf's background from scratch, especially outside of Cormyr. Within Cormyr, you might wanna consult some ole timer elf enthusiasts or DMs that know of Elven plots in the past. For example Mistwood has history of Wild elves.  . Hope that helps. |
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Kaelyth
New Member
Can't see the forest for the trees.
Posts: 95
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Post by Kaelyth on Apr 23, 2022 9:47:33 GMT -5
Furin could fill you in on all things Elfish and Witch-ish...  styxx  |
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Kaelyth
New Member
Can't see the forest for the trees.
Posts: 95
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Post by Kaelyth on Apr 23, 2022 10:00:21 GMT -5
The good thing about wild elves are that they are -are- vague and open for easy backgrounds than you might think. :3 With Stacia, my elfy sorc from Evermeet, House Ther'Revar is a made up house, but it's nothing major and when Rpng with other people of Evermeet, I just state that they might know the house and it's one that specializes in wizardry. That's my only 'conflict' but I keep it simple so players don't have to try and study a 3 page essay on House Ther'Revar. With Wild elves, since they are even more recluse than Wood elves, they can be from anywhere that inhabits woods or close too without much conflict. They don't have big named cities or villages. You can almost pick a forest on the map and say she is from deep within a small community of a tribe. Slap on a cool Elvish name to your tribe and blamo. You can really go to town or should say go 'wild' with Wild Elves and just about build your elf's background from scratch, especially outside of Cormyr. Within Cormyr, you might wanna consult some ole timer elf enthusiasts or DMs that know of Elven plots in the past. For example Mistwood has history of Wild elves. . Hope that helps. That is very helpful and I totally agree that the open-ended nature of the sub-race allows for some very awesome creativity. I guess I just need to submit some of the finer concepts of Kae's working background for community input? Where is a good place to do this? Here in General Discussion? Will I be opening up a can of worms that I'll regret? I've cracked open all my old source material for lore. . .
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Post by styxxbone1 on Apr 23, 2022 11:59:14 GMT -5
*mutters* Bah!!!... Gut Eating, Tree Nesting, Egg Laying, Savages...
styxx
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Post by Runa Rothgar on Apr 23, 2022 14:45:45 GMT -5
Well. Not sure why you want to submit it publicly or at all? You barely catch me writing anything bio related or much history on the forums. If I write anything it's modern and away from Cormyr. Not saying you shouldn't or should, but unless you feel like that you doing something weird or out of the ordinary for elves/Wild elves, just stick to what you think is best. Seems you got enough resources there on the pic xD. There is a mystery in keeping your background away from the forums. You can post something that's on the surface that can possibly invite other players to connect with your character. But I'd keep deeper stuff a mystery. Sometimes keeping your background a mystery allows for adjustment too. I have a surface background and my deeper background where it can be adjusted when something sparks my mind. Rarely do I need to adjust my deeper story, but I may -add- too it later. Perhaps a tale, or history of my character to reveal later. You can categorize your character: The Good stories, The Tragedies, The Strange (Unsolved) Tales. <-- These you keep for yourself to be revealed later when subjects arise. Sometimes when you are RPng, someone is talking and you can improvise a story, making something up that may relate to the subject and then write it down to make sure you remember what you wrote about. Also, I end up watching shows, movies, reading and find something outside of FRC and I am thinking, Hey! I can totally relate that one my characters! *Adds another layer to my character's history* Most players can build a history on Cormyr as their character progress. I find myself creating better stories as I go a long, than trying to come up with a bunch of stuff before hand. Get yourself some basic history, foundational stuff, then add onto it later as time goes on from inspiration or to bounce off other characters. It's sorta what RP is about, improvising and being inspired. That way our mind remains creative and not bound to some 50 page pre-rolled bio that you -must- follow. We are already playing make-believe. Soooo whether you do it before your character's created, during, or after, it's still made up! |
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Kaelyth
New Member
Can't see the forest for the trees.
Posts: 95
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Post by Kaelyth on Apr 24, 2022 15:41:08 GMT -5
So I completely agree with Runa. I guess here is my issue: my bad, I should have been more specific. So. . . here I go *sigh/begin deeplore nerd rant* Page 43 of Races of Faerun (RoF) covers Wild (Green) Elves. The crown wars era nations listed as being populated by Wild Elves are as follows: Thearntaar, Eiellur, Syopiir, Miyeritar, and Keltormir. For character development, I have a keen interest in the lost nation of Miyeritar. Page 53 of Lost Empires of Faerun (LEoF) calls Miyeritar a former kingdom of Dark Elves and Wood (Copper/Sylvan) Elves. I am assuming that LEoF made a typo, because RoF clearly states on page 45 that Wood Elves are a blend of Moon (Silver), Sun (Gold), and Wild Elves that didn't descend into "barbarism" like the rest of the (assumed mostly) Green Elves did during the period of time known as the wandering. Wood Elves allegedly did not come to exist until after the crown wars and should represent an amalgam of the three land-based elf sub races that weren't subject to the descent of the Dark Elves into Drow. So that's the first lore item I would like clarification on.
The second item I'll be more vague on because I agree with Runa that elements of my character's story should be a mystery and I want them to be. Is everything in the Forgotten Realms wiki located here considered good material for use in FRC? I realize that the elements of 4th ed. (like the spellplauge) are being left out. I'll take this moment to thank the staff for not acknowledging that garbage they pushed out. It was quite possibly the biggest mess of nonsense I have ever seen happen to Ed Greenwood's masterpiece (did he sign off on it? was he high or drunk? what was all that?) What I mean is, the way I understand it is that FRC maintains the stance that much of the lore outside of Cormyr is considered "canon", but that due to DM and player activites, lore inside Cormyr may be different from what is on the aforementioned wiki page. Can someone confirm this for me? The wiki is an incredibly useful tool, but I need to know that what I read on there is good to go for lore and story purposes here on FRC. If I need to check prior to usage, then where can I submit that? If it's not relevant, then sorry for over complicating everything, but I am really good at making mountains out of molehills (my personal forte). 
There is a third thing I have questions on, but the more I mull it about the more I think that only a DM could provide clarification and/or approval on the issue so I'll leave it out for now. Hope this all makes some measure of sense.
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Post by tarsiz on Apr 24, 2022 22:00:27 GMT -5
To chime in on the Wiki question, it is to my knowledge very accurate and well documented. I have no complaint about it, the editors seem to be doing a great job at collecting material from the... plethora of sources that exist (not only sourcebooks and novels, but also adventures and even paragraphs written in obscure magazines like Dragon or Polyhedron...). It can however be tricky sometimes to know whether stuff is 3.5 or 4+, but it's quite often dated (so you can exclude everything post 1385 DR). I'm not sure Ed Greenwood had a say in the spellplague and all, perhaps he had sold the rights to the Realms before. That being said, he has also done other questionable things to his own setting |
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Post by malclave on Apr 24, 2022 23:12:52 GMT -5
It can however be tricky sometimes to know whether stuff is 3.5 or 4+, but it's quite often dated (so you can exclude everything post 1385 DR). They're good at citing their sources, so if you have any doubts about specific entries, you can look up what book it came from. If it was published in 2008 or later (when 4E was released), you might want to run it past a DM. Likewise if it's from Polyhedron, especially if it makes any reference to Ravens Bluff. |
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Post by mandene on Apr 25, 2022 0:45:53 GMT -5
So I completely agree with Runa. I guess here is my issue: my bad, I should have been more specific. So. . . here I go *sigh/begin deeplore nerd rant* Page 43 of Races of Faerun (RoF) covers Wild (Green) Elves. The crown wars era nations listed as being populated by Wild Elves are as follows: Thearntaar, Eiellur, Syopiir, Miyeritar, and Keltormir. For character development, I have a keen interest in the lost nation of Miyeritar. Page 53 of Lost Empires of Faerun (LEoF) calls Miyeritar a former kingdom of Dark Elves and Wood (Copper/Sylvan) Elves. I am assuming that LEoF made a typo, because RoF clearly states on page 45 that Wood Elves are a blend of Moon (Silver), Sun (Gold), and Wild Elves that didn't descend into "barbarism" like the rest of the (assumed mostly) Green Elves did during the period of time known as the wandering. Wood Elves allegedly did not come to exist until after the crown wars and should represent an amalgam of the three land-based elf sub races that weren't subject to the descent of the Dark Elves into Drow. So that's the first lore item I would like clarification on. The second item I'll be more vague on because I agree with Runa that elements of my character's story should be a mystery and I want them to be. Is everything in the Forgotten Realms wiki located here considered good material for use in FRC? I realize that the elements of 4th ed. (like the spellplauge) are being left out. I'll take this moment to thank the staff for not acknowledging that garbage they pushed out. It was quite possibly the biggest mess of nonsense I have ever seen happen to Ed Greenwood's masterpiece (did he sign off on it? was he high or drunk? what was all that?) What I mean is, the way I understand it is that FRC maintains the stance that much of the lore outside of Cormyr is considered "canon", but that due to DM and player activites, lore inside Cormyr may be different from what is on the aforementioned wiki page. Can someone confirm this for me? The wiki is an incredibly useful tool, but I need to know that what I read on there is good to go for lore and story purposes here on FRC. If I need to check prior to usage, then where can I submit that? If it's not relevant, then sorry for over complicating everything, but I am really good at making mountains out of molehills (my personal forte). There is a third thing I have questions on, but the more I mull it about the more I think that only a DM could provide clarification and/or approval on the issue so I'll leave it out for now. Hope this all makes some measure of sense.
Soo in none specific order. First of all, don't fret about being super-correct where it comes to Lore. There's loads of people who play elves only for the sake of being able to play an AA, and couldn't care less about the lore. Or know the Cannon (non-FR) lore and do stuff with that. Nobody will look at your elven lore knowledge with a fine-comb, trust me. Not even the people here that get accused of it. There are certain things that can be frustrating, because they are either overused tropes, or too out there. But most of us elf-nerds just let it be anyway. The worst case scenario is that you get asked OOC about your reasons behind the choices and if it's the "wrong" answer (like I couldn't care less about the lore) - avoided IG. Forgotten Realms Wiki is not really a good source, due to it being a mish-mash of things and editions. Our rule of thumb rules for sources where it comes to elves are: 3.5/3e FR (Forgotten Realms) > 3.5/3.0E Cannon > 2E FR > 2E Cannon > 1e FR > 1e cannon. 2E had no real wood elves. Wood elves and wild elves were the same thing there. 3E is where the Wood Elves as you understand them, came to be lore-wise. My personal translation for in game timeline is that until recently humans didn't know better. You are correct about the lore of Wood Elves. They are a race that came to be after the Crown Wars. They are an exception to the game rule that a child of a couple that are of different subraces, has to become either parent's subrace (there are no mish/mashes - but we still play around with mish-mashes in looks). Cormyr as a land has its own elven lore, due to Cormanthor being close by. There are also server specific elven lore. But if you play an elf that moved in here, you are not required to know any of the server-specific lore. One semi-interesting fact about the tradition here of accepted lore, that is not correct in the slightest, is that there are fair-skinned red-haired wild elves. (This is a cannon wild elf, while wild elves of forgotten realms are dark-skinned and dark-haired). Specifically, High Forest wild elves and wood elves pop up as red-haired. Though FRC is not unique with the High Forest red-hairs. And the last part here. Most elves here don't care about your sub-race. Even most sun elves here are played as being more accepting of others. If your elf is treated differently by another elf, it would be due to the personal tastes of the character being played. In the end, it's up to you what you are playing. You can come up with things that aren't described anywhere and explain them with those being the tradition of your tribe, settlement, house, whatever. I personly love lore and have studied elven lore extensively. But then I've created characters and backgrounds that both support the lore, but also diverge from it. If you aren't cookie-cutter elf (whatever that is, and some of us get blamed for trying to make every elf that way) it only makes you more interesting. You don't have to bother with being from "correct" elven areas. Most places in Faerûn can have obscure elven populations. They are just smaller if they aren't mentioned in the books. Maybe you were the only elven family around. Or your tribe avoids all contact. There is a lot of room for ideas.
[Edit] Some of us like teaching the lore as we understand it, both ooc and ic (ic for elves that managed to grow up without any knowledge for <insert reasons> - which is also a trope that is used). I've done both. I've also been known to give hints in tells to people whos' characters are supposed to know things, but the player doesn't. Stuff like names for gods and similar. This way allowing the player to keep up with the illusion. I mean, we're here to have fun, not for people to pass exams.[/edit]
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