|
|
Post by DM Sauron on Feb 11, 2022 9:41:30 GMT -5
Hello FRC!
Thanks for voting and the imput shared during the first poll.
Now, to narrow it down and to make the results more accurate and fair, please vote for the option that you as player prefer for a new starting location.
Think it through and then take a decision, considering every angle and variables that have been discussed already.
Whatever the result is, the server will still be expanding to other directions eslewere too, when time, resources, energy and creativity permit it.
The first poll is now locked.
|
|
kalis
New Member
The Black Hand always strikes down those who stand against it in the end.
Posts: 14
|
Post by kalis on Feb 11, 2022 12:48:56 GMT -5
I don't see what purpose a second starting location will serve. Is this for new characters? Are you getting rid of the welcome area on resets? What's going on?
|
|
|
|
Post by DM Sauron on Feb 11, 2022 13:38:30 GMT -5
I don't see what purpose a second starting location will serve. Is this for new characters? Are you getting rid of the welcome area on resets? What's going on?
The goals are mainly twofold:
1) Many players expressed interest in having an alternative to begin playing. Apparently, Greatgaunt, due to different reasons, is not as appealing as a starting location as it once was. By starting location we mean the place where the lowest level adventurers can begin to RP.
2) Make the resulting option to be a new hub or the main hub. Some believe that Greatgaunt as the main hub is annoying or immersion breaking.
Yes, it is for new characters.
No, the OOC welcome area will remain. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2022 15:16:27 GMT -5
I hate to be a naysayer but even if any of these towns are chosen the newbs, having done all the little quest and hungry for more will find there way to GG because all the low level dungeons are nearby and the high levels (players who have been there asnd done that) will surely gravitate there for a variety of reasons, good or bad.
If it's all rp, what does it matter what level they are when standing around GG. Some newbs are social and have no problem progressing with a group, some aren't and have serious trouble for so many reasons. That will never change. Cliques qill never change either, I see it every day. Hell dm cliques qwill never go away.
The single most effective way to get new players to stick is to give them dm involvment. Until Dm 's focus heavily, if not solely on -new- player low levels, not -old- player low levels, no matter how stinky the rp is, and some of it just stinks, well, I don't see this problem going away.
High levels, for whatever reason and some of them are not good but most are and it is all rp, are going to go to GG because that's where the new blood is to be found and will always be found. Make a new area and the high levels will go there in search of it, new blood that is.
It's feature of PW's and it isn't going to go away.
I look at GG recently and it's almost innocous compared to the way it was before, an intimidating place. You either get along or move on, get in or get out. I f you are anti social, it's hard to progress but it can be overcome. If your rp sucks, there may not be any helping it.
Try banning, literally, -all- levels higher than 10 from entering GG for three months (For RP purposes you could just say the town will not let known old adventuers into it because of all the problems and the indecent dress the yshow up in) and see what results. In effect that is what you are trying to do, so do it.
It's a little wierd seeing these high levels or with major positions of import or command hanging about GG and there duties lie elsewhere.
Most characters a really only half the level (realistically) they are techinically, except Mynian, I suspect, so maybe I am being too harsh, still...
I know one character who will always check in on the Gaunt to see if there are any weak minded or willed characters to be taken advantage of and that is just what it is, RP.
What a ramble...
Just ban the high levels( regardless if they a re a dm or not or a favorite of a dm) from entering the Gaunt. Problem solved. Done.
I am certain the old players can deal with such and figure out what to do.
Like, what. wait outside the gate? LOL
I vote for a high level ban in GG for a few months to see what comes of it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Runa Rothgar on Feb 11, 2022 15:43:43 GMT -5
@thelastword
I am unsure if you read the previous post on this. This new area is going to have 'newbie' style quests/dungeon/areas.
Basically moving from GG to a new 'newbie' area.
No, new characters/players aren't going to get shoved into a place where they have to travel back to GG to do the low levels.
Basically new quests/dungeons would be set in this new area. Sort of a reset. I hope this eases your frustration :3.
|
|
|
|
Post by DM Sauron on Feb 11, 2022 15:44:23 GMT -5
Friendly Reminder
Trolling and toxic posts will be deleted.
Vote for what you prefer or do not.
|
|
|
|
Post by ShadowCatJen on Feb 11, 2022 16:04:15 GMT -5
I don't see what purpose a second starting location will serve. Is this for new characters? Are you getting rid of the welcome area on resets? What's going on? The goals are mainly twofold: 1) Many players expressed interest in having an alternative to begin playing. Apparently, Greatgaunt, due to different reasons, is not as appealing as a starting location as it once was. By starting location we mean the place where the lowest level adventurers can begin to RP.
2) Make the resulting option to be a new hub or the main hub. Some believe that Greatgaunt as the main hub is annoying or immersion breaking.
Yes, it is for new characters.
No, the OOC welcome area will remain. If the intent is to make a more RP viable starting area where having higher level characters mill about makes more sense, then I'd vote more for a city that doesn't have as much content to it already and requires less shuffling of level appropriate dungeons. Marsember. Breaks my little small-time angler heart not voting for Moonever, but it would basically just be another more fishy smelling Greatgaunt with epics milling about. Also consider that inn prices in Suzail are generally higher and to make it viable for level 1's to be able to quest-and-rest a new dirt cheap inn will have to be put in.... uuuuunless you want to make both the Obscene Ogre and Prancing Bull the starter inns? .... which would put a very particular notion as to what sort of server FRC is. >.> Granted, you'd have to do the same for Marsember with a cheap inn/rest area, but there's more wiggle room there then there is in Suzail. I also saw mention in the last thread about a ferry to Valkur's Roar from the new starting point and regardless of where it's going to be, this Minister says "yes".  |
|
|
|
Post by DM Sauron on Feb 11, 2022 16:15:03 GMT -5
The goals are mainly twofold: 1) Many players expressed interest in having an alternative to begin playing. Apparently, Greatgaunt, due to different reasons, is not as appealing as a starting location as it once was. By starting location we mean the place where the lowest level adventurers can begin to RP.
2) Make the resulting option to be a new hub or the main hub. Some believe that Greatgaunt as the main hub is annoying or immersion breaking.
Yes, it is for new characters.
No, the OOC welcome area will remain. If the intent is to make a more RP viable starting area where having higher level characters mill about makes more sense, then I'd vote more for a city that doesn't have as much content to it already and requires less shuffling of level appropriate dungeons. Marsember. Breaks my little small-time angler heart not voting for Moonever, but it would basically just be another more fishy smelling Greatgaunt with epics milling about. Also consider that inn prices in Suzail are generally higher and to make it viable for level 1's to be able to quest-and-rest a new dirt cheap inn will have to be put in.... uuuuunless you want to make both the Obscene Ogre and Prancing Bull the starter inns? .... which would put a very particular notion as to what sort of server FRC is. >.> Granted, you'd have to do the same for Marsember with a cheap inn/rest area, but there's more wiggle room there then there is in Suzail. I also saw mention in the last thread about a ferry to Valkur's Roar from the new starting point and regardless of where it's going to be, this Minister says "yes". 
Plenty of potential to make Suzail larger and adapt it to very low and low level ranges. Inns, shops, taverns, dungeons, quests, etc...
|
|
|
|
Post by DOT on Feb 11, 2022 17:12:48 GMT -5
I’m personally excited for the potential with suzail and revamp 3.0, shady folks might hang at the docks, up and ups prefer the central district (this is assuming there won’t be changes to the current layout, but if there might be I offer one word.... elevations  ). Vote to your hearts content my lovelies! 🥳🐬 Some nice possible inspo made by someone talented (zoom feature ftw) Zoomy Map  *squeals in builder* |
|
|
|
Post by MTGPackFoils on Feb 11, 2022 20:32:20 GMT -5
I voted for Suzail mainly because, imho, it may be easier to rework an existing area than create something brand new.
However I hope we can get Moonever, Wheeloon, Proskur, and other cities in the south, and east of Cormyr's borders.
TBH I would like for us one day to include the Dales, the Moonsea, and more.
|
|
|
|
Post by DM Jorteck on Feb 11, 2022 20:57:44 GMT -5
Just to clarify some context with this project - this is part of a 3-part project with the "New Character Experience" topic we discussed in our last transparency report: frc.proboards.com/thread/34920/transparency-report-q4-2021The transparency report covered part 1 of this, mainly revolving around the character creation area. This is the OOC part where you pick your character background, origin, languages, deity, and poke around a gallery area to learn a bit more about the module. Part 2 involves the addition of new "tutorial" areas. These are areas like the border area that we intend to tailor to your character's background and origin, so your arrival in Cormyr makes narrative sense (aka not "Hey, I was born in Cormyr, and lived here my whole life. Btw, can I get a border pass so I can live here?") Part 3 (and the topic of this poll) is the "starter" areas where the tutorial areas funnel new players, and the primary intent is to continue where the tutorial lefts off but act as a consolidated hub for newbies so new players have the chance to organically form groups together. Like Greatgaunt, it's not really intended for Level 30's to park their merchants there, and we have some ideas on addressing some sort-of gathering/group hub as a separate project. We wanted to have 2 of these starter areas, one being Greatgaunt, as having one for each background combination would be too much work and cause the player base to split too much. Ideally, this new location should fill a much different niche and set of characters compared to Greatgaunt. If we went with Suzail, we could perhaps include a city "slums", or underground where unsavoury characters could begin their growth. Or perhaps Moonever could be puppeted by some kind of crime syndicate, or just be "quiet" enough for characters who are trying not to be found. |
|
|
|
Post by brygun on Feb 11, 2022 21:00:19 GMT -5
I dont even know where/what Moonever is.
Never visited IC and player has zero lore on what that is.
>>>
Marsemember is a very different place in the game world and that seems more like a later-on place in adventures
>>>
Voted Suzail
As the Capital there can be lots of things good new >players< like how the law works, who are the purple dragons, what is the recent politics... like how VR has that musuem which mentions server plots and PCs some of whom are still in play
Suzail has a port and maybe the spawn in area for new characters can be at the docks NOT the caravan. Thus opening backgrounds that involve coming from "far away" by ship rather than land caravan. Marsmember has docks too but it also has the Blue Dragon navy base and that seems like the navy is for a mid-level not starting character adventures.
|
|
|
|
Post by brygun on Feb 11, 2022 21:10:07 GMT -5
Suzail could have low level naval adventurers. Like being guards on a sailing shipment or a series of attribute/save tests to manage ship board life or something.
Also...
Though I don't play multiple characters, I do hard deep dive as people have seen with Xandy, there are players who have been around for years with multiple characters. Thats fine. The point is they are surely bored with the same Gaurgaunt starter dungeons after having to play them several times for each of several characters could certainly get a little numb on having character #7 not being surprised when something jumps out.
|
|
|
|
Post by DM Sauron on Feb 13, 2022 14:21:04 GMT -5
This is really close, but maybe some players still need to decide and vote. Leaving the poll open some more.
|
|
|
|
Post by tarsiz on Feb 13, 2022 14:33:06 GMT -5
I voted Suzail. It is the capital of Cormyr and quite central in the server, so I feel like having a second hub there would also more naturally encourage higher level adventurers to hang out there, which is one of the things that are currently an "issue" with Greatgaunt (super epics casually hugging the tree and fence next to the Griffon).
Marsember is a super cool town that I feel is also a bit underutilized currently, but it is also very close to Suzail (2 areas to cross on foot between the two, essentially like GG to Valkur through the high road). It could be revamped with some low-medium level content to encourage some newcomers to travel from Suzail to Marsember and give it more life. A bit akin to what VR currently is to GG.
|
|
|
|
Post by malclave on Feb 13, 2022 15:42:44 GMT -5
I voted for Moonever. Maybe I'm just a traditionalist, but unless I'm in an explicitly urban campaign I like the progression of starting in a small village and gradually moving to larger towns and cities. Starting in the capital and then moving to smaller places would just feel backwards.  |
|
|
|
Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Feb 13, 2022 18:31:45 GMT -5
I don't see what purpose a second starting location will serve. Is this for new characters? Are you getting rid of the welcome area on resets? What's going on? It's been explained at length on the previous pole and maybe this one, probably easier to just read that. |
|
|
|
Post by ShadowCatJen on Feb 13, 2022 18:56:09 GMT -5
If this is to all fit in conjunction with the new background and new player entry system that indicates having more than two or even three new starting areas then... why not both? Or are we deciding what is to be the very very next one to be done?
Suzail for those born in Cormyr or have more city/urban backgrounds in mind.
Keep Greatgaunt for those coming from Western countries.
Moonever for those coming east.
If it's the very very next one? Suzail. Get the main capital city more solidified from a builder's standpoint.
Then when it seems to be settling down and working fairly, work on putting in Moonever.
|
|
Kaelyth
New Member
Can't see the forest for the trees.
Posts: 95
|
Post by Kaelyth on Feb 13, 2022 19:06:45 GMT -5
I voted for Moonever, but either that or Suzail works imo. I think as long as the server has one rural and one urban hub it should be okay. If we can't have two, keep it rural. Maybe better still to have two rural. There are several RP reasons for this I think.
Several kinds of characters would be awkward to start in an urban environment. Barbarians, rangers, druids, etc - those usually need a somewhat rural environment to start in. I can see other classes starting in an urban environment, but by virtue of their indifference, they can start in a rural environment as well as the other classes. Kaelyth struggled for the first three levels in Greatgaunt given her ancestry and preferences, but Greatgaunt's rural aesthetic helped her grow accustomed to a less "wild" environment.
I think rural areas are easier to start in than massive, sprawling cities - but that's just my two pennies.
|
|
|
|
Post by vulpes on Feb 13, 2022 19:16:14 GMT -5
Suzail, it makes more sense to have a "new" urban hub than two backwaters, we already have GG we don't need another? It's also the Capitol, for example how many people have heard of Abita Springs? probably none, but most have heard of New Orleans, or London vs Crediton? A Capitol just makes so much more sense and more importantly the "higher levels" don't feel out of place.
|
|
|
|
Post by DM Maleficent's Kiss on Feb 13, 2022 19:58:43 GMT -5
If this is to all fit in conjunction with the new background and new player entry system that indicates having more than two or even three new starting areas then... why not both? Or are we deciding what is to be the very very next one to be done? Suzail for those born in Cormyr or have more city/urban backgrounds in mind. Keep Greatgaunt for those coming from Western countries. Moonever for those coming east. If it's the very very next one? Suzail. Get the main capital city more solidified from a builder's standpoint. Then when it seems to be settling down and working fairly, work on putting in Moonever. You beat me to it but...this. There is benefit to both places eventually. GG will always be the classic experience but having a new rural in Moonever on the opposite side of the kingdom would be great. Suzail addresses those who may sail in or have always lived in Cormyr, etc. |
|
|
|
Post by Animayhem on Feb 13, 2022 21:29:10 GMT -5
Everyone keeps mentioning from this place or that. Starting locations are just that. Tagging a player om creation so they can only go to the "programmed one" or were the areas arriving from just mentioned to justify the areas?
Players should be able to go anywhere they wish except for hidden guild areas, guild halls etc.
Many players do not have all day to play so the time they have is valuable.
|
|
|
|
Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Feb 14, 2022 1:03:36 GMT -5
Everyone keeps mentioning from this place or that. Starting locations are just that. Tagging a player om creation so they can only go to the "programmed one" or were the areas arriving from just mentioned to justify the areas? Players should be able to go anywhere they wish except for hidden guild areas, guild halls etc. Many players do not have all day to play so the time they have is valuable.
I am sure no one will stop you from just going straight to Greatgaunt if thats the extent of your wishes for a starting area. Some of us just would like more options for our characters. It's not going to affect where you choose to be at, Greatgaunt isn't going away as an option. |
|
|
|
Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Feb 14, 2022 10:16:12 GMT -5
Everyone keeps mentioning from this place or that. Starting locations are just that. Tagging a player om creation so they can only go to the "programmed one" or were the areas arriving from just mentioned to justify the areas? Players should be able to go anywhere they wish except for hidden guild areas, guild halls etc. Many players do not have all day to play so the time they have is valuable.
Player demand seems to justify the area, not any sort of force applied by staff. Looks like we have 1 vote out of almost 60 players for keeping the starting area GreatGaunt. There are a few others naysayers to the idea who either didn't vote or voted for one of the proposed areas, but it looks like the giant vast majority of us want a new starting area and are also fine with leaving Greatgaunt as a starting area for those who are so set in tradition that they can't entertain the thought. No one is forcing anyone to go anywhere. This is the complete opposite, it gives you more options instead of forcing you to start in Greatgaunt if you don't want to. |
|
|
|
Post by MTGPackFoils on Feb 14, 2022 11:21:44 GMT -5
If the goal is to tailor the experience to fit as many backgrounds/classes/etc as possible then Suzail should be it.
Wizards, Rogues, Clerics/Paladins of certain faiths, and Bards would all surely benefit from having their intro area bleed into Suzail. Rangers, and Druids could benefit from the same treatment in Greatgaunt. Fighters, Monks, and Sorcerers are flexible enough to where either way could apply imho.
One idea could be that if the player says they are born in Cormyr they get a special token that when they leave the starting area they are taken to Suzail instead of Greatgaunt. Heck in the future one could say they are from Thay, and start at the enclave (or Proskur if it's built by then).
|
|
kalis
New Member
The Black Hand always strikes down those who stand against it in the end.
Posts: 14
|
Post by kalis on Feb 14, 2022 11:35:33 GMT -5
I like the idea of a new player being able to start in multiple locations. Perhaps make it so they can start anywhere but have it highly suggested that they start in the two places the DM's plan on having areas they can venture in at the beginning. This way the only starting locations the DM's would have to add/modify areas would be the two they planned for keeping the work needed to be done as they originally planned. Let's face it, we often travel to places we are too weak for when we are low level hell Kalis is mid-level and still finds places he is not ready for. Just got killed by a Black Dragon twice the other day. Just part of adventuring. I have never felt locked into Greatgaunt even as a low level character, somewhere between level 7 and 10 the group I was with started hanging out at the Tipsy Imp Inn and Talbots Inn in Vulkars Roar. Eventually we would quite often hang out in Suzail and Eveningstar. Another player and I eventually made Vulkars Roar our home since through a DM event she was put in charge of the Gallery in Vulkars Roar. Now we spend the majority of our time RPing in there with others we travel with and hang out in the Tipsy Imp and Talbots. Perhaps this can be another way of getting players to hang out in different locations, through extensive and well earned RP other players can be responsible for places of their own. I don't mean to just hand out places easily, my friend RPed for years and was rewarded For this. I believe it was actually a surprise for her to be put in charge of the Gallery during her DM event promotion ceremony. But things like this can have people decide to spend more time in such places. Sure, we still travel to Greatgaunt every so often to view the new players. Kalis even highers some as mercenaries. (You know who you are..  I like doing this kind of thing to get them involved with us higher level characters. I may even pay them to venture into dungeons telling them to bring him back whatever kind of gem they find. Since I rarely play any other character, I try to think of ways to get the new players involved with me directly even though I cannot venture with them. Yes, I like the idea of more than one starting location, this should be fun. |
|
|
|
Post by lucesi on Feb 14, 2022 13:01:34 GMT -5
I'm not sure it will split the playerbase, I think when people have explored all of the low level areas for the day (level 5 and below) or week for Greatgaunt they will likely travel over to Suzail to do those ones and vice versa. So I can see there still being a steady stream of players going to and from both places.
Of course with more low level places to explore character progression will be quicker for low levels, whether that's a good or bad thing is a matter of opinion.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bardy Grouch, Jr. on Feb 14, 2022 18:49:23 GMT -5
Player demand seems to justify the area, not any sort of force applied by staff. Looks like we have 1 vote out of almost 60 players for keeping the starting area GreatGaunt. There are a few others naysayers to the idea who either didn't vote or voted for one of the proposed areas, but it looks like the giant vast majority of us want a new starting area and are also fine with leaving Greatgaunt as a starting area for those who are so set in tradition that they can't entertain the thought. No one is forcing anyone to go anywhere. This is the complete opposite, it gives you more options instead of forcing you to start in Greatgaunt if you don't want to. For the record, I was the one that voted to keep Greatgaunt only. I'm not necessarily wedded to the town itself, but there are things about the way it's set up ( posted in the original poll) that I would like to see incorporated wherever the second (or third...) starting location happens to be. Of the other options, I prefer a new location in Cormyr. It doesn't have to be a single contiguous area, like Greatgaunt, but Suzail seems too large and Marsember too spread out to be easily navigable for new players. |
|
|
|
Post by Masterbard Alyster Darkharp on Feb 14, 2022 19:54:07 GMT -5
Player demand seems to justify the area, not any sort of force applied by staff. Looks like we have 1 vote out of almost 60 players for keeping the starting area GreatGaunt. There are a few others naysayers to the idea who either didn't vote or voted for one of the proposed areas, but it looks like the giant vast majority of us want a new starting area and are also fine with leaving Greatgaunt as a starting area for those who are so set in tradition that they can't entertain the thought. No one is forcing anyone to go anywhere. This is the complete opposite, it gives you more options instead of forcing you to start in Greatgaunt if you don't want to. For the record, I was the one that voted to keep Greatgaunt only. I'm not necessarily wedded to the town itself, but there are things about the way it's set up ( posted in the original poll) that I would like to see incorporated wherever the second (or third...) starting location happens to be. Of the other options, I prefer a new location in Cormyr. It doesn't have to be a single contiguous area, like Greatgaunt, but Suzail seems too large and Marsember too spread out to be easily navigable for new players. I think most who voted Marsember would go for the Moonover-Marsember low to mid level area, looks like it's Suzail though so no matter. |
|
|
|
Post by DM Sauron on Feb 15, 2022 9:00:05 GMT -5
And it appears like there is a winner
It was close, but in the end Suzail gained more support
Thanks all for participating
|
|
).
I like doing this kind of thing to get them involved with us higher level characters. I may even pay them to venture into dungeons telling them to bring him back whatever kind of gem they find. Since I rarely play any other character, I try to think of ways to get the new players involved with me directly even though I cannot venture with them. Yes, I like the idea of more than one starting location, this should be fun. 
