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Post by malclave on Feb 9, 2022 11:52:20 GMT -5
One potential issue with a second starting location is giving new players enough information up front to choose between the two. I hope that's addressed, either in the border area or the welcome room.
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Post by styxxbone1 on Feb 9, 2022 12:28:30 GMT -5
One of those annoying town criers could direct new players between the old and the new start towns.
styxx
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Post by MTGPackFoils on Feb 9, 2022 13:13:11 GMT -5
I voted for Suzail. It is the capitol and is a springboard to get to other areas. Suazil market place is already a second gathering hub for players. TBH I wish this was really the primary starting place. A city that I think would benefit us would be Proskur. Hopefully it can be added one day. Heck if it was possible it would be nice to see all locations in Cormyr represented on the server. It would add distance between towns, and make being on the road filled with some measure of uncertainty if not outright danger. |
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Post by MTGPackFoils on Feb 9, 2022 13:15:41 GMT -5
One potential issue with a second starting location is giving new players enough information up front to choose between the two. I hope that's addressed, either in the border area or the welcome room. *sign in front of GG entrance* "Players new to FRC should start here." *sign in front of Suzail entrance* "Veteran FRC players with new characters start here." |
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Post by DM Maleficent's Kiss on Feb 9, 2022 19:32:55 GMT -5
In terms of a city or place that could achieve the "hub" effect across all level ranges while actually making sense - Suzail.
While it's understandable people would want a completely new area and content if it ends up being a GG-esque style area the same low level meetup problem could just be re-created and all the high levels end up there too.
If the starting area was in the Suzail docks for instance there are plenty of spaces that could be used for potential starter dungeons or quest giving npc's with far less change than it would take to make an all new zone.
Also, since its a larger city higher levels have reason to be here too and the place is big enough not everyone is going to be on top of each other like they are currently in GG. The city would naturally feel busier but there are plenty of places to head off and RP as well..
Over the years watching players this has always felt like the place players seemingly wish they had more excuses to be in...but had to get back to GG because thats the hub. I'm not saying thats how people do feel, thats just the impression I've had while up top.
If I was voting...I think Suzail makes the most sense overall. I think it would achieve the hub effect very well and FRC would benefit greatly.
Just my two cents.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2022 21:46:42 GMT -5
What Malificent says makes the most sense. Done.
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Post by DOT on Feb 9, 2022 21:54:04 GMT -5
Can’t decide between Marsember or Suzail.
If Marsember because it really is so diverse or at least it will be what with the eventual shou district, the capacity for both law and the shady, and it houses the actual Thayan enclave of Cormye (not of proskur). If Mars were to be the direction, I feel that it should more closely match the lore layout, and it can offer the cozy feeling on the borders of the city (starting swampy district vs the more cosmopolitan feel of the rest of the city).
If Suzail, it has a lot already in place. Maybe city creep of a “starter town” along the exterior of the wall since it offers natural growth of the city but also gives a blend between the preferable rural feel vs the urban. I would also recommend the layout to match the lore, as the capital it should be expanded to be larger than other cities in the server.
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Post by DOT on Feb 9, 2022 22:24:31 GMT -5
Just had another thought. Suzail BUT a new young district of the capital city that takes into account ooc suggestions for a super successful starting area that benefits the server.
So we get a good mix of canon lore and a weee bit of creative liberty to appease the masses 😘
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Post by DM Sauron on Feb 9, 2022 23:47:50 GMT -5
Giving the poll a few more days.
Then we will likely need another poll with the 3 or 4 more popular options only.
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Post by Animayhem on Feb 10, 2022 10:50:26 GMT -5
One potential issue with a second starting location is giving new players enough information up front to choose between the two. I hope that's addressed, either in the border area or the welcome room. *sign in front of GG entrance* "Players new to FRC should start here." *sign in front of Suzail entrance* "Veteran FRC players with new characters start here." I do not think it is necessary to put new player or Veteran. No one should be excluded because of their level. You should go where you feel your rp takes you. Suzail would be less traumatic so to speak than a totally new area. Personally I would like to see hubs race related to help the transition. Skull Crag has the Dwarf Fortress, Shallybrook for hins. What would be nice is a hub for Elves. Not all those who play Elves, lived with other races so this would be a good transition. Thayans have the Enclaves. |
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Post by vulpes on Feb 10, 2022 11:23:27 GMT -5
What are we trying to solve with this? New players have a hard time as it is making up teams of even 2 or 3. That said I 2nd stage area... like level 7 to 12... seems like a good idea. For that the Capital and thus seeing the history of kingdom make much more sense. I agree, having 2 new areas just means two new areas for high levels to ply their wares XD and low levels not able to form a group. But, if there is one Suzail makes sense, it's not another little town / village and is the Capital *nods all knowingly* |
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Post by vulpes on Feb 10, 2022 11:38:31 GMT -5
*sign in front of GG entrance* "Players new to FRC should start here." *sign in front of Suzail entrance* "Veteran FRC players with new characters start here." I do not think it is necessary to put new player or Veteran. No one should be excluded because of their level. You should go where you feel your rp takes you. Suzail would be less traumatic so to speak than a totally new area. Personally I would like to see hubs race related to help the transition. Skull Crag has the Dwarf Fortress, Shallybrook for hins. What would be nice is a hub for Elves. Not all those who play Elves, lived with other races so this would be a good transition. Thayans have the Enclaves. You need a place for humans, there are way too many elves and everyone know elves are evil !  |
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Post by Orc Face on Feb 10, 2022 11:42:56 GMT -5
I do not think it is necessary to put new player or Veteran. No one should be excluded because of their level. You should go where you feel your rp takes you. Suzail would be less traumatic so to speak than a totally new area. Personally I would like to see hubs race related to help the transition. Skull Crag has the Dwarf Fortress, Shallybrook for hins. What would be nice is a hub for Elves. Not all those who play Elves, lived with other races so this would be a good transition. Thayans have the Enclaves. You need a place for humans, there are way too many elves and everyone know elves are evil ! Them Knife ears…lol |
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Post by martel on Feb 10, 2022 12:15:39 GMT -5
Luckbringer wrote:
This. So much this.
Also, whatever way is selected to mitigate these issues: it will send a powerful signal to new players about how seriously we take RP. So the more “realistic,” or organic, or canon-consistent the approach: the better.
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Post by DM Maleficent's Kiss on Feb 10, 2022 12:21:07 GMT -5
We also need to be humble and realistic about the concept of potential hubs based on the current size of our community.
The FRC community is a fair size but we're not massive, if we get too complex and have too many starting areas or we attempt to have more than one(possibly two) hubs given current average online player count it could work against us.
One of the reasons I mentioned Suzail in my last post is because it would define "the" hub rather than one that is simply based off being something new and interesting, or based off familiarity(much the way GG is), what race you're playing, what level, or anything else. I think even more so than Marsember, Suzail fulfills this criteria with a few additions and adjustments to the city itself and surrounding areas. There is also the coming addition of player housing and other much requested features from years gone by that will work well here. I know some will disagree with this notion about Suzail and that's fine, it's merely my opinion based on what I've seen and heard from several players over the years.
In response to the points DOT made - North of Suzail and just past the farmlands there are several wilderness areas that rarely if ever see much use by players and could use some love. For those who would shun the busier urban life, perhaps something could be placed there such as some quest giving npc's for new characters or some simple starter style dungeons/leveling areas. It wouldn't be uncommon for a druid, ranger, or barbarian(possibly others) to not want to visit the big city so perhaps something else could be placed there too...possibly a camp of some kind? This could provide those characters a place to rest, resupply, perhaps trade/sell their findings and in general would be it's own hub offshoot from the nearby city. This was something I always found myself wishing GG had just outside possibly in the Bramble or otherwise, nothing big, but something that gave those characters an actual "restful" object they could use without having to expend a bed roll. Yes there are caves in the Bramble you can rest in but for many characters, being in town period makes very little sense and the Suzail wilderness areas could provide the means to accommodate our nature friends.
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Post by DM Sauron on Feb 10, 2022 13:42:19 GMT -5
There is a nice expansion to the city tileset that would be perfect for Suzail and that could be used in the more high class districts.
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Post by brygun on Feb 10, 2022 18:02:01 GMT -5
You need a place for humans, there are way too many elves and everyone know elves are evil ! Given the breeding rate of half elves quite a lot are more than fine with elves <music interlude>. Especially when you also account for elves in those numbers live for centuries. A classroom of 20 has 17 short lived humans, 2 moderate lived half elves and 1 long lived elf. |
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Post by vulpes on Feb 10, 2022 18:05:46 GMT -5
You need a place for humans, there are way too many elves and everyone know elves are evil ! Given the breeding rate of half elves quite a lot are more than fine with elves <music interlude>. Especially when you also account for elves in those numbers live for centuries. A classroom of 20 has 17 short lived humans, 2 moderate lived half elves and 1 long lived elf. One elf too many  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 18:58:31 GMT -5
This makes one think there should be serious restrictions on all races but human, if canon has anything to do with it. Apllication only.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2022 19:00:28 GMT -5
Makes me laugh thninking how many dragon blood are walking about. Silly.
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Post by Southpaw on Feb 10, 2022 19:57:02 GMT -5
As much as I hold my nose about urban role play (I much prefer wilderness and dungeon role play, like, immensely), the biggest advantages I see in Suzail as a starting location are its relatively central geographical location on the server with connections by road, boat, and magic portal to everywhere, and its political, military, magical, and economic importance to the setting. Suzail, in a sense, is Cormyr, and if you're going to spend much time in Cormyr, then you're going to contend with Suzail's influence over the setting one way or the other. I think if people of all classes, races, faiths, alignments, and character levels are going to congregate in one spot simply because it's where everyone else is, Suzail really makes the most sense for that. That doesn't mean other hubs couldn't develop in other places later, but I think a Suzail hub is a best "next step" towards further development of the server. I mean, it really is a place where it would make sense to have starter dungeons where you hunt rats in the cellars of inns and also epic adventures where you rescue war wizards from interplanar threats all in the same city.
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Post by Bardy Grouch, Jr. on Feb 10, 2022 20:05:12 GMT -5
I voted for keeping Greatgaunt only, but only to save having to build a new area. My argument in favor of Greatgaunt is it really seems to be the only place with everything a starting point would need for RP and character support: a large, open area to facilitate meeting old friends and making new ones; all of the requisite merchants with most of the basic supplies; a tavern/inn for rest; a full range of crafting supplies and facilities; and, adventuring options for a wide range of levels within a fairly short walk from the town.
Having said that, I'm actually okay with any of the other options, but those are characteristics I'd like to see in the "starting" area, wherever it may be.
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Post by styxxbone1 on Feb 10, 2022 23:50:01 GMT -5
I would prefer to see some of the new areas put into the mod first, like the Thunder Peaks, Goblin Marches and so on. This seems more like a solution in search of a problem.
styxx
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Andros
Old School
I only know that I know nothing
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Post by Andros on Feb 11, 2022 6:56:07 GMT -5
Whatever we go with please make sure there is a DIRECT caravan route between it and Greatgaunt for ease of access for newbies with no oppotunity to get lost/confused
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Post by MTGPackFoils on Feb 11, 2022 8:35:37 GMT -5
I do not think it is necessary to put new player or Veteran. No one should be excluded because of their level. You should go where you feel your rp takes you. Suzail would be less traumatic so to speak than a totally new area. Personally I would like to see hubs race related to help the transition. Skull Crag has the Dwarf Fortress, Shallybrook for hins. What would be nice is a hub for Elves. Not all those who play Elves, lived with other races so this would be a good transition. Thayans have the Enclaves. It wasn't an attempt to be exclusionary. If the server has 45 players, and 48 of them are in Greatgaunt (yes, an exaggeration for humor but go with me here), then what is the point in having the other cities? What's the point in putting time and effort into adding to them if no one goes there unless it's a quest (or they are shopping, or whatever). It would be a challenge for a new player if they come on, look for a group, and everyone in GG is not able to help them due to level. Some may even say it would be discouraging for that player. However I do agree that there should be some racial areas for those that choose to do so. One of the issues I have had with immersion is that everyone (regardless of race, alignment, etc) starts in GG. What is so special about GG that everyone would start there? To me, as someone who enjoys pen-and-paper to online play, I don't understand it. Nevertheless anytime I make an Elf one of my goals, as a player, is to get that Elf to the town in the Hullack. I wish I could roll an Elf and start there instead. Add that to the list of racial areas. Also what is this about a Dwarven Fortress in Skull Crag? Maybe I missed something the last time I was there. |
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Post by styxxbone1 on Feb 11, 2022 9:26:46 GMT -5
Whatever we go with please make sure there is a DIRECT caravan route between it and Greatgaunt for ease of access for newbies with no oppotunity to get lost/confused Or something like the Blue Tree Gate. Those starry eyed noobs fresh off the Turnip Farms are broke! styxx |
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