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Post by Animayhem on Apr 30, 2020 20:04:25 GMT -5
As I understand it , druids and shifters study to be able to change form. That when they change it is complete they are the creature and it is not illusion.
So does the spell truseeing reveal the actual shifted person or just detect a human intelligence?
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Post by dwarvenkoff on May 1, 2020 5:51:47 GMT -5
Sorry to sneak in on this post but I feel since they are intertwined it'd be forgiven and save clutter? According to the rules of true seeing in the spell changes thread they reveal polymorphs and pierce illusions but what if you ahd a mundane disguise (one not pierced by true sight) and then polymorph or wild shape with the disguise still on? are you seen as you truely are or as you attempted to disguise yourself? also when it comes to the opposing dice roll and the enemy has true sight do you ignore the spot bonus?
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Post by DM Maleficent's Kiss on May 1, 2020 10:24:26 GMT -5
Taken from the spell changes thread here on the forums:
"True Seeing
- Functions as See Invisibility, Ultravision, and +2 Spot and Search per caster level.
- In addition to the listed mechanical functionality, True Seeing is roleplayed as seeing through illusion, polymorph, and transmutation effects to reveal a creature's true form. (This reveals the humanoid form for player characters.)"
So the answer is yes, True Seeing reveals a druids TRUE form(the humanoid PC form) A shifter is still subject to this as their true form is still that of a humanoid(at least here on FRC).
Adding to this further druids and shifters are still transformed through magical means even though wildshape and greater wild shapes aren't spells. For this reason dispel magic won't work on shapechanged druids/shifters.
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Post by Munroe on May 1, 2020 18:50:40 GMT -5
See this previous DM Q&A about this topic: frc.proboards.com/post/264556/threadBelow follows the final post of that thread. (Removed from the quote tags to keep nested quotes intact.) Note that the epic unique item I mention in the thread is no longer actively in play by a character on the server. (That player isn't playing and hasn't played for a few years.)
ENTIRE TEXT OF THIS POST BELOW THIS QUOTE BOX IS QUOTED TEXT, REMOVED FROM QUOTE TAG TO KEEP NESTED QUOTES.
(The timestamp link on this quote tag corresponds to the quoted text below.) Unless you have a related question to the topic, DO NOT REPLY TO DM Q&A THREADS UNLESS YOU ARE A DM.
DO NOT ANSWER IN DM Q&A THREADS UNLESS YOU ARE A DM.
It has always been to my understanding that even while under the effects of true seeing that "druids" who "wild-shape" transform into a creature "become" that creature, and are therefore not an illusion. True seeing wouldn't have any bearing on knowing that the creature is a humanoid in disguise or not. That is always how I understood it, is this about right, DMs?
You are incorrect and the opposite is true. True Seeing penetrates druid and shifter wildshape abilities to reveal the creature's humanoid form, as already answered in the quoted text up-thread, quoted again here.
I was told OOC via tell that True Seeing doesn't see through shifter form's even though such to my knowledge it should and from my understanding of Masters of the Wild, which is a supplemental 3.0 book which introduced some things used in 3.5. I'm curious if there has been a change in the opinion of DM's since this Q&A or if this is still the case and people have been spreading misinformation mistakenly as a Shifters abilities are a greater form of Wildshape. I did have a look for other posts in a similar vain, though this was the latest post I could find from my search. FM.
True Seeing should penetrate both the druid and shifter shapeshifting abilities, including all varieties of WildShape, to allow seeing the druid's natural form. (That is their standard humanoid form in the case of all druids and shifters on FRC.) True Seeing should penetrate all magical disguises and polymorphing effects on FRC, including druid and shifter WildShape, but I am aware of an epic unique item on FRC that says specifically in its description that True Seeing doesn't work to penetrate its effect. As it is written as a specific exception to the functioning of True Seeing, I guess it is one. I would advise you to direct misinformed parties to this thread for clarification.
As to the epic unique item I mentioned, that was already explained in a follow-up post in this thread as well, and does not relate to druids or shifters. |
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Post by Animayhem on May 1, 2020 22:45:22 GMT -5
Taken from the spell changes thread here on the forums: "True Seeing - Functions as See Invisibility, Ultravision, and +2 Spot and Search per caster level. - In addition to the listed mechanical functionality, True Seeing is roleplayed as seeing through illusion, polymorph, and transmutation effects to reveal a creature's true form. (This reveals the humanoid form for player characters.)" So the answer is yes, True Seeing reveals a druids TRUE form(the humanoid PC form) A shifter is still subject to this as their true form is still that of a humanoid(at least here on FRC). Adding to this further druids and shifters are still transformed through magical means even though wildshape and greater wild shapes aren't spells. For this reason dispel magic won't work on shapechanged druids/shifters. So then no dice rolls are made. Does the true seeing spell need to be cast in front of the shifted? |
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Post by DM Maleficent's Kiss on May 2, 2020 0:18:39 GMT -5
Taken from the spell changes thread here on the forums: "True Seeing - Functions as See Invisibility, Ultravision, and +2 Spot and Search per caster level. - In addition to the listed mechanical functionality, True Seeing is roleplayed as seeing through illusion, polymorph, and transmutation effects to reveal a creature's true form. (This reveals the humanoid form for player characters.)" So the answer is yes, True Seeing reveals a druids TRUE form(the humanoid PC form) A shifter is still subject to this as their true form is still that of a humanoid(at least here on FRC). Adding to this further druids and shifters are still transformed through magical means even though wildshape and greater wild shapes aren't spells. For this reason dispel magic won't work on shapechanged druids/shifters. So then no dice rolls are made. Does the true seeing spell need to be cast in front of the shifted? For the sake of fairness and counter play since there is no dice roll it would probably be a good idea to. Since a character with Truesight on them doesn't give any vfx indicators to other players a player who is being revealed may feel metagamed. This is likely one of those situations where if the spell is being used some communication with the other player can go a long way to keeping things feeling fair and well RP'ed. |
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Post by Animayhem on May 2, 2020 8:32:52 GMT -5
Thank-you Maleficent and Munroe
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