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Post by ShadowCatJen on May 5, 2019 16:30:01 GMT -5
So I gave it a few months playing here before saying anything about this. And, yes, I know this is a subject that has several threads already written on it, but it always seems those get ignored. To that end I figured I'd post some observations on a new thread. I have seen more PCs running since I restarted playing here more than I have in the entire time I'd been playing on FRC. No, I'm not talking about in and around Greatgaunt with new people coming in and needing to be told to walk through towns because they didn't know of the RP stance of walking on FRC. That sort of running is to be expected and those of us who've been on for a while know we need to try and coach people like that. No, I'm not talking about the inherent mechanical problem that Elves and Monk PCs have with walking and how they occasionally run a short distance when they really meant to walk. That part is understandable because of "NWN mechanic lulz" and the player in question will always do their best to recover from that misclick. I'm talking about people who've obviously been on the server for a while, know what they're supposed to be doing, and completely ignoring it just because they think they're not being watched. In the last two days alone I've seen at least three people running, not just in town, but in a tavern, to the barkeep and then straight upstairs. Three people and, again, not in Greatgaunt. Also on the road travels that I've had Myn take I've seen dozens of PCs running from loot pile to loot pile. Fairly much ignoring everything around them. Just because they don't see that one PC lurking in the trees, hiding. People assuming that just because they're not seen then it is okay to just dine-and-dash their way across the server. Worse, I had someone flat out come up right behind my character to the loot pile she was standing next to, spawn the enemies, had the enemies aggro on them .... then when they noticed my PC standing there they said "the stuff is yours" and then ran back to the road to walk away. They left my character to deal with the enemy on her own. Yep, that's right! Someone flat out abandoned a person with enemies baring down on them. This is a PC who is not or has not put themselves forward as someone "evil" so it wasn't an evil act or even "neutral" act. This was just someone who was so OOC with the way they handle the mechanic on the server (i.e. running from loot to loot and assuming everyone else is out there doing the same thing) that their character came off as an awful individual and ignored any chance for incidental RP on the road. This is not the way you're supposed to RP, folks. It's immersion breaking and showing a severe lack of patience on a good score of "regular" players on the server here. It's highly disappointing to see to say the least. I know I'm going to get some flack from some of you and you'll pile on reasons why you (not your character) would run from place to place, but in all honesty I kinda don't care. I've seen way too much of it over the last month and a half. I did try to think that maybe it was just a rare occurrence, but no. It's been frequent enough and consistent enough that something needed to be said. So to that end I'm going to say ... STOP. RUNNING. EVERYWHERE.I don't care if you don't think anyone isn't around to see you run. Just don't do it. I don't care if you're short on RL time and have to run like that if you want to get your daily allotted XP. You shouldn't be on at all if you're that short on time. Just stop. Seriously.
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Post by mysticalkas on May 5, 2019 16:44:49 GMT -5
Very valid points. I know at one time DM Extropy was looking into something that would make it more realistic. Delfin has a token on him that acts in such a way, You can run, but after a certain amount of time you get tired, slow to a walk and can't run anymore until you rest for a while, about 2 mins RL or so I think, could be more or less. If one of the DM's would like to take a look at it please send me a message so that we can meet and I can get Delfin for you. I think it did really well in minimizing the running constantly issue and could even be adjusted that if you push yourself past it you fall down and can't move for like 10 RL mins or something. Not all of us can run a marathon.
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Post by xeneize on May 5, 2019 18:08:06 GMT -5
Like I've typed in every single thread regarding this subject.
If my characters have an In-character reason to run, they -will- run.
My one copper.
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Post by purgatori69 on May 6, 2019 2:47:36 GMT -5
The running characters are seriously out of control but have improved my shadowing ability 100 times. It is seriously hard to shadow a running over 4, 5 or even more transitions but it can be done. Have shadowed runners through entire dungeons. Though hard to shadow except can always catch up as you kill that next spawn and loot chests and then run to the next spawn. Its farming/grinding. This is an RP server not a PW. Should point out have also shadowed quite a few very good players who even alone did some self talking took it slow and though they might not have noticed me for the WHOLE dungeon was fun to shadow. Some have discovered me and others I have revealed myself too all great RP. NOTE none of that great RP was from RUNNERS. Slow down enjoy yourself it not about that next level or loot or xp. Well it is but those shouldn't be your main drive or your missing the point of RP. I have characters that are 7 plus years old and have never seen epic levels. This has not hindered them at all with RP and gaining reputation. And done. Thank you.
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Post by Southpaw on May 6, 2019 8:54:31 GMT -5
My biggest temptation to run inappropriately is, very specifically, when I've been out solo'ing a dungeon, and I have other players waiting for me somewhere to do something else together. For what ever reason, looting out a dungeon and shaving time when I have IC reason to be travelling cross country don't pull me OOC. (I actually enjoy playing out the effects of fatigue from running long distances.) If I have somewhere else to be IRL, I'll just get as far as I can normally and log out. But If I have other players who I'm holding up with my travel time, I feel a major temptation to just flat out run when I don't see anyone else around. That doesn't make it okay, and I don't do it often, but if any temptation is going to get me, that's the one.
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Post by Windhover on May 6, 2019 9:50:24 GMT -5
Cannot deny that running at 170% speed is fun when there is an IC reason behind it! Other than that, when one walks faster than most can run, the temptation to run out of character is greatly reduced. At times, the NPCs and monsters cannot even spawn in time due to the speed of the character walking or running towards their encounter zone. In simpler terms, it can be very counter productive to move faster than the game engine does, especially in dangerous areas.
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Post by Animayhem on May 6, 2019 9:55:39 GMT -5
There is also the matter of EE which causes people to unexpectedly running. Running in villages and towns does not make sense, Running on roads between point a and b makes sense as does galloping on a horse.
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Eldok
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Atonement is the way
Posts: 216
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Post by Eldok on May 6, 2019 10:38:49 GMT -5
There is also the matter of EE which causes people to unexpectedly running. Running in villages and towns does not make sense, Running on roads between point a and b makes sense as does galloping on a horse. Agreed
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 11:19:32 GMT -5
It should be made so there's a chance a PC drops dead after running their brains out like an energetic lil' monster with unlimited energy *evil, maniacal laughter*
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 11:38:10 GMT -5
I think players should be evaluating their character's constitution/stamina when deciding if they have an in-character reason to run across the map, especially when you consider long distances. I've met people who ran from Suzail to Greatgaunt in the space of ten minutes and carry on as usual - that just isn't feasible unless your character is an extremely fit athlete (and that's a stretch given the distance between the two locations). Inventory weight should also be a factor for consideration when we're talking about running, since how long could a character last while lugging around their adventuring essentials? In my view, acceptable situations for running include escaping dangerous encounters, dealing with emergencies, and for sport I suppose. We should always be thinking of our character's strengths and also their limitations, and both aspects should be roleplayed at all times.
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Post by nemusator on May 6, 2019 13:23:32 GMT -5
Even if somebody is a champion in a long distance sport, f.e. even an Ironman Legend won't be running through towns. He would walk, looking at people, shops, birds if any and alike... There are horses, speed potions, expeditious retreat scrolls, caravans, teleports, classes with natural speed increase... Lots of means to make your trip form point A to point B faster. Fast looting doesn't make sense, that is, running from container to container. In RL you would need to bend/reach, check/inspect it(my chars usually identify objects before taking, not wishing to pick up f.e. a poisoned thorn or something...), stash it, and so on.
From my perspective, I never had an issue with telling players that I need some time to reach some place, or I need some short brake and alike... One of the reasons I love FRC is that it seems a non cheaters community. It just comes natural that a player accepts customs/rules of the server and is proud of playing by. I'm not saying I haven't had a bunch of situations where a player was suggesting/doing something illegal/wrong. I do my best to clarify, and explain, hoping it develops roots, and when I don't get something(and yes, there are still things about which I consult other players) I ask. I'm not saying I haven't made mistakes myself. I'm saying there is a huge difference between unintentional mistake and players not caring about what are they doing to other players. From what I have seen thus far, and compared to majority I am still a noob, FRC staff tends always to talk to players, politely resolve issues and alike... But whenever something threatens the RP of other players, or bothers players/isn't in accordance with rules, it is dealt with.
One of the main things is to have fun but not on expense of others. You can run constantly when it is combat related. You can run in order to retreat to safety, for as long as it takes. You can also run into a town if something is urgent or alike... You can also run short distances occasionally. If you like to run IG that much, organize some sport events with DM's or alike... But what you shouldn't do is spoiling the RP of others. No excuse for that.
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Post by ShadowCatJen on May 6, 2019 13:28:21 GMT -5
she was standing next to, spawn the enemies, had the enemies aggro on them .... then when they noticed my PC standing there they said "the stuff is yours" and then ran back to the road to walk away. They left my character to deal with the enemy on her own. Is she leaved you to die? It is probably, you have intimidating her directly or indirectly. Young woman could be surprised or scared and just try to avoid uncomfortable situation. Nope! It all happened so fast that I didn't even have time to have Mynian react other than to defend herself against the goblins. I had a reaction typed up in the talk field after the character ran up to the loot pile, but then they said "stuff is yours" and walked away. My fingers had to leave the keyboard to do combat. I even heard the sound of the loot pile being opened up the second the character got there. That's it. That was the beginning, middle, and end of the interaction. There was no intimidation from Mynian, directly or indirectly. No other reactions. Nothing. Now I will say that I am at fault for at least not sending them a tell afterwards to say "Hey, you do just realized you abandoned her to a bunch of goblins right?" and open up that level of communication. However, I was rather stunned at the time that I didn't think to. My bad.
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Post by malclave on May 6, 2019 13:39:42 GMT -5
*considers setting up P.T. sessions for the VR Reserves*
Me and Elminster had a brawl, Yanked his beard and made him fall. He skinned his knee, I saw him bleed, Now I'm smoking his pipeweed.
Sound off! (one, two!) etc
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Post by ShadowCatJen on May 6, 2019 13:46:21 GMT -5
There is also the matter of EE which causes people to unexpectedly running. Running in villages and towns does not make sense, Running on roads between point a and b makes sense as does galloping on a horse. Agreed As said, EE has it's mechanical quirks which make for horribly awkward RP situations, sometimes humorous ones. That's okay as the player who ends up suffering from "EE lulz" recovers and roleplays on. Same thing can be said for those dreaded "I can't sit in this damn chair!" moments. You deal with it until it works then roleplay on. I will also agree with galloping on a horse from point A to point B. ... as long as it is from point A to point B and not .... point A, loot pile 1, loot pile 2, loot pile 3, etc, etc ... loot pile 23, point B, straight to shop sell loot. Luckily from what I've seen anyone going by on a horse is very IC. One paused just long enough to emote *riding hard, only glances at them* and another cantered her horse around in a circle to show themselves coming to a "realistic" stop while on horseback and proceeded to ask if we were alright. In other words I've yet to see anyone with a horse be OOC about it.
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Post by ShadowCatJen on May 6, 2019 13:48:45 GMT -5
Slow down enjoy yourself it not about that next level or loot or xp. Well it is but those shouldn't be your main drive or your missing the point of RP. I have characters that are 7 plus years old and have never seen epic levels. This has not hindered them at all with RP and gaining reputation. ^ This. So much this.
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Post by mandene on May 6, 2019 15:06:20 GMT -5
Before he left, Extropy playtested for a while with few players a script that monitored running. If the character testing it ran for too long, they ended up winded and in the end exhausted. Both effects disappeared after the PC stopped moving for a while.
I appreciated the script. I don't know why it didn't get implemented.
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Post by Southpaw on May 6, 2019 15:19:38 GMT -5
I would *love* a constitution based script that simulated fatigue. I used to play on another server that had one, and I loved it. It gave you penalties on strength, dex, and movement that increased slowly as you got more and more fatigued, and even counted combat towards fatigue. (It took quite a lot of combat without resting at all to get fatigued, but it was possible.) There was no rule about running, and there was none needed because if you ran around too much, you were pretty vulnerable if anything tried to eat you. That together with randomized spawns in a lot of places, and people were pretty on their toes all the time because you weren't just pretending something unexpected might pop up at just the worst time.
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Post by FlyingMidget on May 6, 2019 15:43:07 GMT -5
Very valid points. I know at one time DM Extropy was looking into something that would make it more realistic. Delfin has a token on him that acts in such a way, You can run, but after a certain amount of time you get tired, slow to a walk and can't run anymore until you rest for a while, about 2 mins RL or so I think, could be more or less. If one of the DM's would like to take a look at it please send me a message so that we can meet and I can get Delfin for you. I think it did really well in minimizing the running constantly issue and could even be adjusted that if you push yourself past it you fall down and can't move for like 10 RL mins or something. Not all of us can run a marathon. Before he left, Extropy playtested for a while with few players a script that monitored running. If the character testing it ran for too long, they ended up winded and in the end exhausted. Both effects disappeared after the PC stopped moving for a while. I appreciated the script. I don't know why it didn't get implemented. It didn't work properly, Tasar for example could run through the entire Espar Mines dungeon (a pretty decent sized dungeon) without pausing except to fight without getting exhausted (had done this multiple times with Extropy not being able to resolve the issue in a fashion that left other types of characters able to run when needed). It also was a script that if implemented to work for every online player would have the script firing every 5-6 seconds multiplied by the number of players online, not a great idea if we want to avoid unnecessary lag as it wasn't the lightest weighted script either, there's also the side effect of people feeling more justified in their ability to run even if there's no IC reason to run (or worse when there's IC reason not to run and be cautious) just because there's a system in place to put a limitation on such.
If anyone does have one of these tokens, they can trash such, because the script was disabled from the live module. FM.
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Post by tingly on May 7, 2019 1:00:14 GMT -5
I concur in general, but see it as a symptom of a greater weirdness in the OOC ways people approach the server's gameplay. This shows up in other ways; social characters suddenly turning into silent automata the moment an adventure starts, people being weirdly rushed in organizing the adventure to the point of skipping introductions or saying what they're doing, wholeheartedly metagaming 'what room the boss is in because they've been there before'...The list goes on, and most of the time it seems like it's not intentional. As though the idea of playing the 'game' makes people turn their brains off, and that's disappointing.
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Eldok
Proven Member
Atonement is the way
Posts: 216
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Post by Eldok on May 7, 2019 1:12:10 GMT -5
Before he left, Extropy playtested for a while with few players a script that monitored running. If the character testing it ran for too long, they ended up winded and in the end exhausted. Both effects disappeared after the PC stopped moving for a while. I appreciated the script. I don't know why it didn't get implemented. I tested the widget a while with one of my character and it was working very well to be honest. It was impossible to cheat the script, but for some reason, a DM recently decided te remove the widget from my character’s inventory. I also wonder why it never got implemented. People actually run in real life and let us not forget, this is a video game.
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Post by mandene on May 7, 2019 2:20:08 GMT -5
Before he left, Extropy playtested for a while with few players a script that monitored running. If the character testing it ran for too long, they ended up winded and in the end exhausted. Both effects disappeared after the PC stopped moving for a while. I appreciated the script. I don't know why it didn't get implemented. I tested the widget a while with one of my character and it was working very well to be honest. It was impossible to cheat the script, but for some reason, a DM recently decided te remove the widget from my character’s inventory. I also wonder why it never got implemented. People actually run in real life and let us not forget, this is a video game. The script has been gone quite a while,so carry g the token was meaningless. Without having seen the code itself, I'm sure it was very randomized in how it acted. The first time I tried it, Ariean got exhausted after 2 laps around the starting room. Simetimes she could run for a long while before it set in. Hence why it could seem like never triggering. Having it implemented as pseudo-heartbeat sounds like a poor decision.
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Post by malclave on May 7, 2019 4:20:18 GMT -5
I never ran into that when testing it; to me, it seemed to work fine for outdoor travel, but IIRC stopping to fight or loot seemed to count as resting (or at least walking), so the token wouldn't have any impact on running through dungeons.
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Post by dwarvenkoff on May 7, 2019 8:09:12 GMT -5
Also what if you are under the effects of a shapechange spell and are an iron golem? most scripts don't account for things like that. I've been on a server where you had a hunger and fatigue meter but it didn't account for these sort of changes. but that's kinda the point scripts don't account for everything. I run, I walk, I crawl, I press up against a cliff and move under archers and lob firebombs at them. But sure I'll cut down even more on my running.
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Post by lucid on May 7, 2019 9:07:51 GMT -5
Best Exhaustion script is found on (sadly) Prisoners of the Mist. Not sure what level of espionage will be required to get it from there, though. That one hits you from running and fighting, both. It had several increasing levels of exhaustion, which would apply various dice penalties and slowness effects. I would really like this sort of script in place because I HATE the way people get so damn condescending and superior about this topic. "Ohhh you ran two steps, clearly you are a crappy roleplayer." It is a kneejerk reaction to EVERY situation now. I agree that most of the time, it's just someone being OOC. But when it isn't? You still get that treatment, there is zero opportunity for my wild elf to be a distance runner. I mean it's deep into her RP, you ask "How are you", she replies "I run yet." You ask "Are you wounded", she replies "I can run." People LEAP at the opportunity to snub over this, without thought, without measure, without any sort of judgement, just turn the nose skyward, and it really just turns me off. "Clearly you just want to cheat, so you built that into your RP." Bah. I mean just look at these jerks here. Worst characters ever. Nobody would EVER want to emulate a character like this. They certainly wouldn't create an entire base character class modeled on him as the poster child. Nobody even watches his movie anymore because he and his buddy run non-stop across the plains for four straight days. UNREALISM! Sorry for sass leak but them's the feels.
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Post by Southpaw on May 7, 2019 9:50:19 GMT -5
About the Prisoners of the Mist fatigue system and the “level of espionage” to reproduce their system, I sent a PM to the owner of the server when I used to play there asking how he’d feel about sharing the script with another server for the sake of furthering quality role play in the world at large, when it was being discussed here. He said he’d be fine with it. If he still feels the same way, the level of espionage to acquire the script can be expressed in the word, “ask.”
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Post by lucid on May 7, 2019 9:52:49 GMT -5
About the Prisoners of the Mist fatigue system and the “level of espionage” to reproduce their system, I sent a PM to the owner of the server when I used to play there asking how he’d feel about sharing the script with another server for the sake of furthering quality role play in the world at large, when it was being discussed here. He said he’d be fine with it. If he still feels the same way, the level of espionage to acquire the script can be expressed in the word, “ask.” Master spy makes it look easy
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Post by Animayhem on May 7, 2019 9:54:58 GMT -5
Hunger Thirst Fatigue script (htf)
I have played on two different worlds with it. I believe the code's success depends on what other scripts are used. The one world it worked well and was reasonable in the monitoring and you had the option to turn it off if you did not want to constantly eat and drink to raise the bars.
The other world the hunger and thirst were decent but the fatigue was off the charts. You would just log on and stand around talking not moving and in less than five minutes you would be half fatigue. It seems faster in some areas and not in others.
I think both players and dms need to not be too hasty in tagging some one a runner (with respect) first time they see them.
I have some times sent tells asking them not to run around in the village or city proper unless they are running into town trying to get a rescue party.
Running is natural just try and keep it in character and rp.
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Post by edmaster44 on May 7, 2019 17:05:28 GMT -5
Add a Walk Command like other servers do and Perhaps You'll see Less Running around..? It's very awkward walking in NWN without either Weighing yourself down with Weight or keeping Search on all the time, or gods forbid You're a Knife ear you use the Mouse to walk.
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Post by grivel on May 7, 2019 17:31:15 GMT -5
Do as Kali does. Fly like an Eagle
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Post by malclave on May 7, 2019 17:43:42 GMT -5
Add a Walk Command like other servers do and Perhaps You'll see Less Running around..? It's very awkward walking in NWN without either Weighing yourself down with Weight or keeping Search on all the time, or gods forbid You're a Knife ear you use the Mouse to walk. There is a !walk command, though I don't use it even on my elf (when carrying his bow he looks like he's running at walking speed). The advice I was given when I first joined was to change the key binds, which works best for me. I have "w" bound to Walk and <space> bound to Run. Doesn't help if I'm clicking on a spot to go to, but I usually use the keyboard to move outside of combat.
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