Nicoen
Proven Member
Posts: 225
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Post by Nicoen on Feb 15, 2019 12:14:50 GMT -5
Charisma can easily be all about your force personality. You can be a super ugly powerful sorceror who leads hordes of evil minions. The problem with beauty is that it is in the eye of the beholder. But again. Charisma representing appearances seems odd. I mean id you polymorph. Your charisma stays the same. Its a mental stat not a physical. It does seem odd. Our server FRC uses the DnD-FR standard of measurement, however. Certain concepts, ideas and realities are simply fundamentally written. Some people take a far leap-left on an interpretation, or a far-leap right. Regardless of perspective limits, Charisma is physical encompassing in DnD whether we love it or dislike it. Here's a quote & link:I'm surprised someone who has played here this long does not know the server's stance on this ever-recurring topic. On FRC Charisma does NOT have to equal your appearance. Here it is in the words of a DM. Some people prefer to play that Charisma doesn't affect appearance. While the Player's Handbook mentioned that Charisma does include appearance, we haven't enforced that one way or the other on a server-wide scale. If someone tells me their character is beautiful and I see that -1 modifier, I chalk it up to a positive self image. Just because they see themselves as beautiful doesn't mean everyone will. And I say "I do this, and I do that" because we don't have hard-and-fast rule on these things that don't have DCs. They're all open to interpretation.
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abby
Old School
Posts: 323
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Post by abby on Feb 15, 2019 12:19:39 GMT -5
It does seem odd. Our server FRC uses the DnD-FR standard of measurement, however. Certain concepts, ideas and realities are simply fundamentally written. Some people take a far leap-left on an interpretation, or a far-leap right. Regardless of perspective limits, Charisma is physical encompassing in DnD whether we love it or dislike it. Here's a quote & link:I'm surprised someone who has played here this long does not know the server's stance on this ever-recurring topic. On FRC Charisma does NOT have to equal your appearance. Here it is in the words of a DM. Some people prefer to play that Charisma doesn't affect appearance. While the Player's Handbook mentioned that Charisma does include appearance, we haven't enforced that one way or the other on a server-wide scale. If someone tells me their character is beautiful and I see that -1 modifier, I chalk it up to a positive self image. Just because they see themselves as beautiful doesn't mean everyone will. And I say "I do this, and I do that" because we don't have hard-and-fast rule on these things that don't have DCs. They're all open to interpretation. Well... I guess everyone’s hot then... glad I invested all those points in charisma.
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Post by Warlord on Feb 15, 2019 12:21:16 GMT -5
It does seem odd. Our server FRC uses the DnD-FR standard of measurement, however. Certain concepts, ideas and realities are simply fundamentally written. Some people take a far leap-left on an interpretation, or a far-leap right. Regardless of perspective limits, Charisma is physical encompassing in DnD whether we love it or dislike it. Here's a quote & link:I'm surprised someone who has played here this long does not know the server's stance on this ever-recurring topic. On FRC Charisma does NOT have to equal your appearance. Here it is in the words of a DM. Some people prefer to play that Charisma doesn't affect appearance. While the Player's Handbook mentioned that Charisma does include appearance, we haven't enforced that one way or the other on a server-wide scale. If someone tells me their character is beautiful and I see that -1 modifier, I chalk it up to a positive self image. Just because they see themselves as beautiful doesn't mean everyone will. And I say "I do this, and I do that" because we don't have hard-and-fast rule on these things that don't have DCs. They're all open to interpretation. Time to ability dump charisma!
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abby
Old School
Posts: 323
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Post by abby on Feb 15, 2019 12:24:10 GMT -5
I know right!? Hey while we’re at it, I’d like a +2 con modifier to my hp and fort saves despite my 8 con because I have a positive self image of health.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 12:29:10 GMT -5
I know right!? Hey while we’re at it, I’d like a +2 con modifier to my hp and fort saves despite my 8 con because I have a positive self image of health. You seem to have roleplaying and rollplaying confused.
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Nicoen
Proven Member
Posts: 225
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Post by Nicoen on Feb 15, 2019 12:30:35 GMT -5
Nice attitudes to the rules you guys are showing.
But no, not everyone is hot or beautiful on FRC. Most of us who play here are adults. We're here to roleplay all sorts of characters in the world of Forgotten Realms, without having to be perfect Mary Sues. Go ahead and read people's descriptions and see how many describe their characters as beautiful or hot. A lot of the players on FRC love that their characters have flaws, in fact, for many it ends up being defining for them and their roleplay and character development. We don't need to create rules about every single little thing about our characters in order for everyone to have a good time here. Have some trust in your fellow players.
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Post by Warlord on Feb 15, 2019 12:37:21 GMT -5
Nice attitudes to the rules you guys are showing. Have some trust in your fellow players. It's called mirror imaging, budy. Ya wanna troll me, I'll troll back. Or how's about that trust, yo? At least one of us rather consistently pursues the other. It's ok, I'll be here for you whenever you want.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 12:42:36 GMT -5
Nice attitudes to the rules you guys are showing. Have some trust in your fellow players. It's called mirror imaging, budy. Ya wanna troll me, I'll troll back. Or how's about that trust, yo? At least one of us rather consistently pursues the other. It's ok, I'll be here for you whenever you want. Your tone is unbecoming of the forums, Warlord. Nico was pointing out that rules are there to be followed, whether we like them or not. This is a place for discussion, not one for picking fights when you suddenly realize you might be wrong on whatever issue is currently at play. I find your tone unhealthy, hostile and negative. Please make an effort towards constructive criticism.
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abby
Old School
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Post by abby on Feb 15, 2019 12:46:06 GMT -5
Most players are good at RPing their scores. But it’s not fair to people who sacrifice combat ability for charisma to say anybody gets to RP the benifit s of Charisma without taking the score. If I make a female fighter, dumpstat charisma in exchange for crushing strength, it’s not really good RP to run around dressed up like sailor moon and RPing I’m a beauty. It irks me when people don’t accept the non-hardcoded flaws they choose in order to get advantage elsewhere. I don’t understand why the Charisma score is suddenly the one concrete players handbook definition we can ignore, yet none of the other stats have aspects we can ignore.
I can’t take 18 charisma and 8 strength but RP beating your 16 str character at arm wrestling.
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Post by Lady Frost on Feb 15, 2019 12:51:33 GMT -5
It does seem odd. Our server FRC uses the DnD-FR standard of measurement, however. Certain concepts, ideas and realities are simply fundamentally written. Some people take a far leap-left on an interpretation, or a far-leap right. Regardless of perspective limits, Charisma is physical encompassing in DnD whether we love it or dislike it. Here's a quote & link:I'm surprised someone who has played here this long does not know the server's stance on this ever-recurring topic. On FRC Charisma does NOT have to equal your appearance. Here it is in the words of a DM. Some people prefer to play that Charisma doesn't affect appearance. While the Player's Handbook mentioned that Charisma does include appearance, we haven't enforced that one way or the other on a server-wide scale. If someone tells me their character is beautiful and I see that -1 modifier, I chalk it up to a positive self image. Just because they see themselves as beautiful doesn't mean everyone will. And I say "I do this, and I do that" because we don't have hard-and-fast rule on these things that don't have DCs. They're all open to interpretation. Because it's not enforced doesn't make it right. I've never seen a DM enforce ability stats: "You're talking too smart on your character" or "Your character shouldn't be that pretty" will likely never ever be said. That doesn't make the RP correct though. Charisma, based on D&D rules -is- personal appearance and lack of enforcement or local server rules don't change that. That said, as Munroe stated, beauty can mean different things. A beautiful lithe elf might be a high CHA, while a strong confident looking orc might be a high CHA. ------- I also think the things abby discusses are great points I rarely ever seen mentioned and that is ability points are base stats. Skills add upon those and while a base stat may be low, it can be adjusted through skills. A character with a low base stat might overcome their deficiency quite well through skills while a natural might fall behind because they never build upon it. You could also augment a 6 CHA it through magic (gear/spells). Maybe he knows he's got a terrible personality and he keeps magic on himself to get along better with people. Or other people keep magic on him!
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Post by thayanknight on Feb 15, 2019 12:57:28 GMT -5
I don't agree that D&D rules say that Cha is personal appearance. It is an aspect of the ability but not the sole definition
From the PHB, with may being the keyword in both statements. "A character with high Charisma may be attractive, striking, personable, and confident... A character with low Charisma may be reserved, gruff, rude, fawning, or simply nondescript." pg 10, PHB
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Post by Lady Frost on Feb 15, 2019 13:00:39 GMT -5
Most players are good at RPing their scores. But it’s not fair to people who sacrifice combat ability for charisma to say anybody gets to RP the benifit s of Charisma without taking the score. If I make a female fighter, dumpstat charisma in exchange for crushing strength, it’s not really good RP to run around dressed up like sailor moon and RPing I’m a beauty. It irks me when people don’t accept the non-hardcoded flaws they choose in order to get advantage elsewhere. I don’t understand why the Charisma score is suddenly the one concrete players handbook definition we can ignore, yet none of the other stats have aspects we can ignore. I can’t take 18 charisma and 8 strength but RP beating your 16 str character at arm wrestling. I agree and on this point: I sent a small complaint to McGuffin during the big VR meeting a couple weeks ago that everyone up there speaking should have to roll persuade/bluff/whatever so I can see how good or bad (diplomatic) their arguments were. Just because a player is articulate and knows how to phrase statements and direct arguments doesn't mean their characters are any good at it. Some of our characters invest heavily in social stats so we can have an advantage and I think its fair when we sacrifice in combat because of those gains to social stats that other players who only focus on combat should have to suffer in social settings. Maybe if more pressure was put on players to show their social skill rolls, the culture will change a little.
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Post by Lady Frost on Feb 15, 2019 13:01:51 GMT -5
I don't agree that D&D rules say that Cha is personal appearance. It is an aspect of the ability but not the sole definition From the PHB, with may being the keyword in both statements. "A character with high Charisma may be attractive, striking, personable, and confident... A character with low Charisma may be reserved, gruff, rude, fawning, or simply nondescript." pg 10, PHB Nobody said it was the sole definition. We said, as you just did, "it is an aspect of the ability".
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Post by Fluffy the Mad on Feb 15, 2019 13:13:49 GMT -5
This 6 cha is for your dwarf, right? Everyone love's an eternally grumpy dwarf who is a little hard around the edges when interacting with others! Just ask Delin... Delin actually has an 8 charisma. While I don't play her as being ugly by dwarven standards, she is frequently rude, racist, and insulting. She does not take easily to people, and is even critical of those dwarves she would call her closest kin.
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Post by Southpaw on Feb 15, 2019 13:20:11 GMT -5
I don't think Ladyfrost is saying anything contrary to what I'm bringing up, and would probably agree, but for the sake of adding it as a point to the discussion, every case a character can try to make isn't inherently equal. For instance, if a PC is trying to make a case that is in line with an NPC's motivations, while another PC is making a case contrary to the NPC's motivations, then the one making the contrary case has an uphill battle, and I'd like to see the difference in difficulty represented in a modifier to a social role. For instance, let's say an NPC has an interest in making money in lumber, and making money in mining, but no interest in fishing, and three PC's all present cases to the NPC for investing in the respective industries. The two PC's arguing for lumber and mining should have a straight skill contest, but the one arguing for fishing might have a -10 penalty or worse for the skill check, if the NPC is inherently disinterested in fishing. Likewise for bluffing a believable lie vs. an outlandish one or which there is evidence that contradicts it, trying to intimidate someone who has reason to not be afraid of you personally, etc. EDIT: And I don't know why I'm having trouble with quotes where I've removed a sub-quote, but ... such is how it is, I guess.
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Post by mandene on Feb 15, 2019 14:32:58 GMT -5
Just to add my personal translation of the meaning of "psysical attractiveness" in that context. I think too many people tend to translate "attractive" to pretty and handsome. I think that in this context it translates to how people perceive you. Someone who can irl be described as charismatic doesn't have to be oblook good at all. But there's something there that makes us attracted to them and consider them trustworthy. Often Hitler is used ad an example. The guy is seriousky ugly - but boy he made his audience transformed with his speaches. And many followed his lead. He definitely had high charisma. If attraction is indicative of a positive (influential, scopeful, physical) perspective, then the integer should reflect a positive numeric value. 6 charisma has a negative modifier, so there is much negative to go around. The who's who of personal taste on how to assess whether it conforms with their needs, wants, and desires - For DnD speaking - might be a balance of a pc's own INT/WIS/CHA. Of course, I agree on that. In RL I find a certain combination of high INT/WIS attractive. I don't necessarily care about CHA. But the CHA might help along to bother with the person in the first place. IG I'll add all 3 physical attributes to the idea of someone looking good. High STR could give your body the bulging musculature body builders are after. Low str could make you look skinny. High DEX could give you sinewy/beutiful gait. Low would make you look stiff or flaily and wobbly. Combination of high dex/str would give you a hay Beautiful body definition of "fitness" training people. High Con would give you the "glow" of healthy people, while low would make you look sickly. 6 charisma would definitely mean that there's something repulsive about you. But if you have high str/dex/con your body would look good.
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Post by mandene on Feb 15, 2019 14:39:58 GMT -5
Most players are good at RPing their scores. But it’s not fair to people who sacrifice combat ability for charisma to say anybody gets to RP the benifit s of Charisma without taking the score. If I make a female fighter, dumpstat charisma in exchange for crushing strength, it’s not really good RP to run around dressed up like sailor moon and RPing I’m a beauty. It irks me when people don’t accept the non-hardcoded flaws they choose in order to get advantage elsewhere. I don’t understand why the Charisma score is suddenly the one concrete players handbook definition we can ignore, yet none of the other stats have aspects we can ignore. I can’t take 18 charisma and 8 strength but RP beating your 16 str character at arm wrestling. Note that someone with high STR could still have a beautiful body to show off. On the other hand low CHA might just make them look like Conan in a pink tutu. Some of the older players roll CHA wnen they want to show that their character is showing off. If you see someone showing off, you can OOC ask them got a roll, or treat them with mild ignorance of your character not being impressed in the slightest.
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Post by Razgriz on Feb 15, 2019 14:50:31 GMT -5
I'm trying to locate and then post the link to a thread called "How stats affect your appearance", but I cannot find it!
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abby
Old School
Posts: 323
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Post by abby on Feb 15, 2019 16:03:30 GMT -5
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Post by malclave on Feb 15, 2019 16:37:10 GMT -5
I don't agree that D&D rules say that Cha is personal appearance. It is an aspect of the ability but not the sole definition From the PHB, with may being the keyword in both statements. "A character with high Charisma may be attractive, striking, personable, and confident... A character with low Charisma may be reserved, gruff, rude, fawning, or simply nondescript." pg 10, PHB Charisma has always been a problem stat in D&D. It's easy enough to get an idea of what high or low numbers in the other stats mean, but Charisma tries to do too much. There's been a lot of focus on the physical attractiveness and social interaction aspects, which is certainly valid. IMO those things are relative to some extent; if those are what is being emphasized, it should be kept in mind that a 6 CHA dwarf or half-orc among its own race is comparable to an 8 CHA of another race: below average, but not necessarily repugnant. But Charisma is a lot more than just that. Being ugly or rude wouldn't explain why someone has a harder time Turning undead, or using a magic item (with UMD), or using Bardic or Sorcerous spells. Not to mention Dragon Disciples... it's hard to imagine that people in general would find reptilian skin and leathery wings physically appealing. I guess that's why I (in general) consider Charisma to be mostly force of personality, with the physical aspect being secondary. Besides, it lets me blame my lack of grouping on my dwarf's low Charisma instead of my own.
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Post by Razgriz on Feb 15, 2019 16:47:47 GMT -5
Yes that is the one. Then, Kalbaern had posted a link to an interesting formula to calculate comeliness and appearance. Unfortunately, the link is no longer functional. I do not recall the exact formula, but it was a roll that added str, con, dex and a cha bonuses. Even ugly looking but charimstatic sorcerers, paladins and bards were possible with it. I had a CHA 8 dwarf on another server I played as being very quiet and not likely to put himself forward in many ways, like not volunteering to do stuff due to a low self-esteem. The problem with Charisma is that a lot of it is based on context. There used to be a comeliness stat as well as a charisma stat :P For example: Why would a paladins outside appearance effect there charisma, which is stated to be the strength of conviction in their faith? That sorta thing. Charisma isn't necessarily a measure of how good you look. Even my 14 charisma half-orc is still a half-orc, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all. Here's a link to info on "Comeliness". It was originally proposed by G. Gygax, but never a mandatory rule in D&D. It was first discussed in an early edition of the Dragon Magazine (I'll look for the article oneday) as an option for D&D and later published as "Unearthed Arcana" in AD&D. Keep in mind, back in those "good ole days", Female PCs maxed out at a 17 STR too. :D Alot has changed since then. :) fizzygoo.com/Dnd/Variant/Comelns.html
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abby
Old School
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Post by abby on Feb 15, 2019 16:55:00 GMT -5
The part of Charisma that relates to Turning undead would probably be self confidence. You have to present the holy symbol with authority because you are commanding the undead to bow before your god or flee from him. It’s almost like a bluff backed up by divine power.
Self confidence is probably another great metric to Charisma. I remember a guy named Ailren who played that angle well. High charisma and super arrogant and self confident. That could almost be like a darker half of Charisma that doesn’t so much attract others as it placebos you into believing you can do anything.... and in regards to some abilities, it works!
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Post by Munroe on Feb 15, 2019 16:56:38 GMT -5
It does seem odd. Our server FRC uses the DnD-FR standard of measurement, however. Certain concepts, ideas and realities are simply fundamentally written. Some people take a far leap-left on an interpretation, or a far-leap right. Regardless of perspective limits, Charisma is physical encompassing in DnD whether we love it or dislike it. Here's a quote & link:I'm surprised someone who has played here this long does not know the server's stance on this ever-recurring topic. On FRC Charisma does NOT have to equal your appearance. Here it is in the words of a DM. Some people prefer to play that Charisma doesn't affect appearance. While the Player's Handbook mentioned that Charisma does include appearance, we haven't enforced that one way or the other on a server-wide scale. If someone tells me their character is beautiful and I see that -1 modifier, I chalk it up to a positive self image. Just because they see themselves as beautiful doesn't mean everyone will. And I say "I do this, and I do that" because we don't have hard-and-fast rule on these things that don't have DCs. They're all open to interpretation. You quoted me out of context. Context matters. What I said was: I do not treat natural 1s and natural 20s on skill checks as auto-failure and auto-success. That's not how they're treated in the D&D 3.x rules so that's not how I treat them. Though if it's strictly an abstract issue with no actual DC (as is often the case on Performance rolls, or other showing off), I'll often treat a low roll as not being as good as a high roll, and will sometimes, as I see fit, treat a 1 as a flub on my own characters. Strictly speaking, since there is no DC on those rolls, it's all up to interpretation. As for Charisma rolls for appearance, I actually just look at the modifier, not the roll result. I only request rolls to keep people honest. If they have a negative modifier and a high roll, I'll treat it as an unattractive person who has really nice make-up that day, or something, or had clean teeth. You know, over all, they're not suddenly a super-model, but they've done well that day with what they had to work with, they don't have make-up on their teeth or they managed a nice curl to their hair. A natural 20 on a Charisma check is a one-time accomplishment, not a long-term measure. The actual ability scores are a better reflection of a long-term measure. Some people prefer to play that Charisma doesn't affect appearance. While the Player's Handbook mentioned that Charisma does include appearance, we haven't enforced that one way or the other on a server-wide scale. If someone tells me their character is beautiful and I see that -1 modifier, I chalk it up to a positive self image. Just because they see themselves as beautiful doesn't mean everyone will. And I say "I do this, and I do that" because we don't have hard-and-fast rule on these things that don't have DCs. They're all open to interpretation. There are other things, like using STR to grapple, or to slug someone in RP, that would be improved by having a Grapple wand that could calculate for BAB+STR+size mod, but we don't have that kind of item presently, and it might be more difficult to make (considering feats and other bonuses) than I imagine. A lot of the time, opposed STR vs STR isn't taking into consideration that one person is significantly more skilled than another. Or STR vs. DEX to punch someone, that's another one that should be BAB+STR(or DEX with Weapon Finesse) plus all other relevant feats, but figuring out what feats would even be relevant for such a widget is kind of a daunting task. Such a widget should also be able to echo AC, Touch AC, and Flat-footed AC for a comparison, rather than an opposed DEX roll. Heh. I'm not saying this to make more work for the scripters--because I think that would be a lot of work--but to say that basic opposed ability score rolls in RP are imperfect, and we don't have a rule that strictly governs them. Does this help at all? While we don't have a hard-and-fast rule, I do clearly, from context, VERY MUCH use Charisma as a measure of appearance. I said, very specifically, that I do look at the modifier for Charisma rolls to "keep people honest." I was more getting at that high Charisma characters don't have to be beautiful, not that super-low Charisma characters can be, or that it doesn't matter. I wouldn't push your luck trying to RP a Charisma Dumpstat character as beautiful. Even if they're "supposedly" attractive, something about them is probably a major turn-off for people. But, like I said before, we don't have a hard-and-fast rule, so people can happily argue about it and, meh, whatever. For me, personally, Charisma matters to appearance.
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perspicacity
Proven Member
Those who do not want to imitate anything, produce nothing. -Dali
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Post by perspicacity on Feb 15, 2019 19:11:18 GMT -5
I've always played Charisma as actual force of personality. Appearance is just a constituent part, how the character internalizes their appearance is more significant. Essentially how they react to what they see in the mirror. It is not uncommon for objectively attractive people to look in the mirror and be displeased or even repulsed by what they see. Confidence, self-awareness and self-acceptance would seem to play far greater roles. Charisma comes from the Greek through Latin meaning, initially, 'favor or divine gift'. This initial meaning seems especially pertinent in the DnD world in how it relates to channelling divine energies through turning undead or other mechanics.
Now, while appearance may be only a minor constituent part of Charisma, it can often be reflective of the actual strength of personality. Those that hold themselves in high regard will generally have better posture, take better care of their appearance and otherwise present their 'worth' favorably.
As to the OP's question, I tend to RP low Charisma PCs as lacking in confidence, assertiveness, genuine connection with others. In some cases, limiting or even debilitating views of self-worth.
As to rudeness, bluntness and poor manners, I've always had something of an issue with those being used to convey low Charisma in so much as intent is concerned. If one intends to be rude or blunt, it really isn't that much a matter of poor social skills but regard for the audience. Taunt and Intimidate are also Charisma-based skills. Now if someone comes across as rude or crass while not intending so, that's another matter entirely.
From the D&D Wiki:
Charisma (Cha) Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting. Charisma is most important for paladins, sorcerers, and bards. It is also important for clerics, since it affects their ability to turn undead. Every creature has a Charisma score.
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Post by asturonethoriusaline on Feb 15, 2019 19:55:41 GMT -5
charisma is responsible for initiative, appearance and persuade So, in best case it can be initiativeless freak with very limited base for persuade. In fact, low charisma character can be smart, strong and intelligence.
Initiative, or who goes first in physical combat, is dex modifier based, not Cha modifier based. That or NVWN EE changed that for some strange reason, and should be dex based over cha based.
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Post by malclave on Feb 15, 2019 20:35:33 GMT -5
charisma is responsible for initiative, appearance and persuade So, in best case it can be initiativeless freak with very limited base for persuade. In fact, low charisma character can be smart, strong and intelligence.
Initiative, or who goes first in physical combat, is dex modifier based, not Cha modifier based. That or NVWN EE changed that for some strange reason, and should be dex based over cha based. Pretty sure Sergeii meant personal initiative, not initiative in game mechanics.
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Post by DOT on Feb 15, 2019 21:19:37 GMT -5
Hi folks looking for incite to how people rp or have rp'd their low charisma characters both the physical and personality aspects. Thank you much. 6 Charisma? - You are the barf can of society - Looking upon you is unappealing in any capacity, shape or form - You may have shape, form, and muscle even, but it doesn't mean it /looks/ appealing - Ruth, baby, ruth!- You might stink because you walk around unconcerned about your social presence, but you might be wise enough to clean to avoid disease - I'm just thinking of your B.O. right now... - You are the reason why friends wear hoods at bars, even if indoor has no rain... - You also have no real concept of how to motivate anyone else, perhaps not even yourself... Unless you ya do a 1d20 and hit dat 20. Perhaps on those days the gods try not to smother you with mercy-killings. i love you
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Post by DOT on Feb 15, 2019 21:21:30 GMT -5
For a 6? The word you want is "repulsive". This is a destination, but there are many paths. You don't need to be ugly, or smell, but that is one way. Dousing yourself in cloying perfume and wearing way too much makeup for no apparent reason can send you into negatives also. You don't need to be angry, or grumpy, but that is one way. Being insufferably, unreasonably happy to the point of making people want to choke you out can send you into negatives also. Anything that makes people intrinsically unwilling to remain in your presence. Pro tip: show your worth first. how do you mean show your worth first? I don't understand
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perspicacity
Proven Member
Those who do not want to imitate anything, produce nothing. -Dali
Posts: 196
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Post by perspicacity on Feb 16, 2019 1:21:00 GMT -5
As far as the import of physical attractiveness to Charisma is concerned, I'd just point out that a Chort, or pig-faced demon, has a higher Charisma than a Solar.
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abby
Old School
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Post by abby on Feb 16, 2019 1:30:38 GMT -5
As far as the import of physical attractiveness to Charisma is concerned, I'd just point out that a Chort, or pig-faced demon, has a higher Charisma than a Solar. Chorts must be super attractive to each other and brimming with confidence.
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