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Post by magiuss on Feb 12, 2019 8:43:15 GMT -5
This thread, is about adressing the current tendency of taking OOC knowledge that your computer gives you, and use this knowledge as an IC knowledge about other charachters.. i have started to notice that alot of people are useing the Injured/ badly woundet/near death knowledge... and then use this knowledge to make a state such as '' LOOKS AT ALL THE BLOOD RUNNING FROM HER'' What it my characther was hit by a giant and has internal injures..
BY useing your OOC knowledge.. you are depriveing me the opertunity to RP my injures, and how i have obtained them.
EVEN worse.. is the people who just without any RP just walks over and heals..
I know people are trying to be nice and trys to Engage en RP.. if you are unsure of how to approch the situations, Send the person a tell.. ASK if their injures are visable.. Make an IN GAME public SPOT check to see if you can see whats wrong.. if you don't like the TEll solution..
ANything but use the damn OOC knowledge.
Sorry for the rant.. but this is 3 days in a row of people approching me ''seeing me bleed all over the road'' when i was hit with blunt force weapons.
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Eldok
Proven Member
Atonement is the way
Posts: 216
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Post by Eldok on Feb 12, 2019 9:09:54 GMT -5
Being badly wounded or near death will most of the time emply a lot of blood, just like UFC fighters who smash themselves in the ring and end up bleeding.
Plus, being in that state implies a different way to act, your character will have a hard time standing still if he was smashed to death by whatever bludgeoning weapon you may think of.
Using that information isn’t OOC at all, it is a actually a good source of RP, enjoy!🙂
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Post by lucid on Feb 12, 2019 9:22:09 GMT -5
I feel a rant about healing kits bubbling up...
But yeah enough blunt force trauma, particularly repeated blows over existing injury sites, will bleed like a stuck pig. You have split the flesh rather than rended, pierced, sliced, abraded, or any thousand other methods, but the blood doesn't care what lets it loose.
FWIW I do not assume that people bleed from the armor, and only approach people who are Badly Wounded or Near Death, because unless you are deliberately throwing bluff checks to pretend not to be, it's going to be pretty damn obvious that you are Limpin' Jack Flash.
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Post by malclave on Feb 12, 2019 9:23:28 GMT -5
Personally, I still think if someone is at injured status or worse, there will be physical signs. However, on a different thread not too long ago it was suggested that this was metagaming, so (outside of party members when adventuring) I've been trying to just ignore them if they choose not to RP their status.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 9:27:24 GMT -5
Recently a DM controlled NPC commented on my injury status, I can only assume due to the word 'injured' above my avatar. So people might want to think twice before thinking they know the management position of whether or not this is meta-gaming.
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Post by Southpaw on Feb 12, 2019 9:35:54 GMT -5
Metagaming generally involves using information for your own benefit, not the party whose information you are using. I get the point, but I feel that word gets tossed around a bit much sometimes.
As for the effects of blunt force trauma, if you’ve taken enough beating that it damaged you through full plate armor, then your armor is going to be severely mangled itself and probably in even worse shape than the person underneath. It’s also not going to mend without a visit to the smithy. It’s not going to hide your status as severely beaten.
If you want to RP your own status, you might beat people to the punch by emoting preemptively before someone runs up on you.
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Post by magiuss on Feb 12, 2019 9:36:06 GMT -5
Recently a DM controlled NPC commented on my injury status, I can only assume due to the word 'injured' above my avatar. So people might want to think twice before thinking they know the management position of whether or not this is meta-gaming. Im not questioning, the Dm's point of view on this point, useing the games information to deprive a person to RP what their injuries are. is my Personal feeling about this. and i see this as an OOC knowledge about my character, that i would very much like to RP my self. And as i stated.. if you wanna Use this information.. Atleast use a SPOT check in game... This is why we have the Dicebag.. It's a RP tool
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Post by magiuss on Feb 12, 2019 9:38:04 GMT -5
Metagaming generally involves using information for your own benefit, not the party whose information you are using. I get the point, but I feel that word gets tossed around a bit much sometimes. As for the effects of blunt force trauma, if you’ve taken enough beating that it damaged you through full plate armor, then your armor is going to be severely mangled itself and probably in even worse shape than the person underneath. It’s also not going to mend without a visit to the smithy. It’s not going to hide your status as severely beaten. If you want to RP your own status, you might beat people to the punch by emoting preemptively before someone runs up on you. Luckly we are playing in a magical world.. were magical items can not be destroyed or mangled by mere physical force.. but needs special damage.. like an ancient wyrms breath weapon.. or divine destruction dmg.. you are thinking of this as a real world... but The lore on magic items on Forgotten realms are pretty clear.
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Post by hellscream123 on Feb 12, 2019 9:43:51 GMT -5
This is what we call a difference in story perspective allowence. Now while fsir to Rp that someone with an injured tag is visably injured. It is 100% of the time more rewarding to the overall story to make requests of inspection. Either via an emote or PM so you can be given certainty what your character see's and you don't god mod an effect the player didn't write. On accident, as evidently has happened.
Sure this is more work. But we're here to write stories. So please remmeber to pass arund the proverbial quill as much as you can. In all instances
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Post by Dobian on Feb 12, 2019 9:53:04 GMT -5
This subject has come up from time to time over the years. The general opinion from DMs I recall has been that it should be rp'd on both sides and do not base it on the floaty. I've been healed when in injured status, not badly wounded or near death. You can't know what kind of injury someone has if they don't rp it. They might not be bleeding at all, it could be broken bones. Not all wounds are visible. I do think if someone is badly wounded or near death and they don't want to have someone rp trying to heal them, then heal up before they get back to town. If you really are at death's door when heading to a place full of people, you should rp something to the effect and not be walking around like nothing is wrong.
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Nicoen
Proven Member
Posts: 225
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Post by Nicoen on Feb 12, 2019 10:00:45 GMT -5
It sounds like people are mostly on the same wavelength here.
Magiuss states that he doesn't want people to assume the nature of the injuries of his characters. Others then respond that when you're at the status of Injured or below, you are visibly injured and others can tell, unless you actively make an effort of concealing it(and succeed in it). Whether it shows in a character's movement, speech or more graphically(bleeding etc.) is up to the player of that character(and the nature of the injuries), but to conceal it completely they would probably have to roll some bluff or perform.
So as long as people don't emote specifics of another person's wounds, everyone should be happy. As Southpaw points out, all this can be avoided by the player of the character that is wounded by simply emoting the state of their character, others can then react accordingly(roll spot/heal, approach and offer healing etc.)
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Post by FlyingMidget on Feb 12, 2019 10:01:58 GMT -5
I'm going to say, be very careful throwing around words like meta-gaming and god-modding for this sort of thing, if you have a particular way you wish to RP your injuries, take the initiative and RP them from the moment you come into close proximity to someone new, have it marco'd or copy pasted into your clip-board so a simple "ctrl + v" will have your generic message ready to go. If you haven't said anything for a time, don't appear to be intending on saying anything and your character is clearly roughed up, beaten and injured seriously enough to have that above their heads and you aren't RPing those injuries with a limp, favouring a leg, holding a side, wincing with every step or what have you, I'm of the opinion it's pretty fair game, you are injured, the signs are there even if you aren't stating such. That said, people should give you a chance to do such before reacting, give you a reasonable time make a statement or emote your appearance and injuries. That said I'm not going to roll a spot check for you if you aren't emoting or showing anything in your RP about it, because unless your character is going out of their way to hide their physical injuries and are actually making RP emotes and suggestions and rolling bluff, it's pretty clear when someone is seriously wounded, more so to someone with reasonable spot and healing skills (I'm talking about injured, badly injured and near death, not barely injured which is more like slightly roughed up and seen better days or uninjured but missing 5-30hit points.)
FM.
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Andros
Old School
I only know that I know nothing
Posts: 437
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Post by Andros on Feb 12, 2019 10:14:26 GMT -5
I can agree with you OP for as far as Healing Kits because those involve actually touching the person and disinfecting wounds etc. So your character should have time to say *bleep-itty-bleep* off if they are masochists. Divine healing though nah, I will still heal you if my character feels like it, if your character doesn't like it then tell him off or punch him in character.
I can believe you are hiding Barely injuried status, but once you get to injured it's going to show, specially to people that are trained healers so they recognize that your limping is from blunt trauma, or the ribs you are clutching from time to time might be broken.
If you want to roleplay wounds then do it, 9/10 people I see getting healed are just standing there doing nothing.
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Post by magiuss on Feb 12, 2019 10:40:44 GMT -5
I can agree with you OP for as far as Healing Kits because those involve actually touching the person and disinfecting wounds etc. So your character should have time to say *bleep-itty-bleep* off if they are masochists. Divine healing though nah, I will still heal you if my character feels like it, if your character doesn't like it then tell him off or punch him in character. I can believe you are hiding Barely injuried status, but once you get to injured it's going to show, specially to people that are trained healers so they recognize that your limping is from blunt trauma, or the ribs you are clutching from time to time might be broken. If you want to roleplay wounds then do it, 9/10 people I see getting healed are just standing there doing nothing. I agree with you on the healing kit part .. and yes that is also usely my reaction i will punch people who try something with out permission.
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Post by magiuss on Feb 12, 2019 10:45:52 GMT -5
I can believe you are hiding Barely injuried status, but once you get to injured it's going to show, specially to people that are trained healers so they recognize that your limping is from blunt trauma, or the ribs you are clutching from time to time might be broken. The Problem with this part, is if you are not willing to Roll a SPOT check... you may have 0 in spot and don't normaly see a thing.. then that is ''is my personal opinion meta gaming'' since you have not a perceptive person.. you may be incredible good at spotting it with a HEAL check once you are close and looking at the person up front.
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abby
Old School
Posts: 323
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Post by abby on Feb 12, 2019 10:47:17 GMT -5
Well I deal with this a lot as I play an Ilmateri healer whose religious duty is to stop you from suffering since Ilmater feels your pain too. Therefore Abby obsessively wants to heal wounds, but I don’t bug people unless they’re injured or worse. I firmly believe a trained healer is going to see physical signs at that point that you’d have to emote trying to hide if you don’t want people reacting too them. Then you can match bluff vs heal(or whatever) if someone is determined to react to them (as Abby usually is). I wouldn’t emote that you’re bleeding all over, because I assume you’ve bandaged yourself and not continuing to bleed as your hp isn’t still dropping. Abby always approaches, asking permission to tend your injuries without specifying what they are so you can fill in that blank. Then I make a healing check and ask in a tell what’s wrong and how many HP are missing based on the check.
Unless someone is at “near death” I never heal without asking (other than her close friends) because I learned my lesson a long time ago as a noob healer when a dwarf smashed Abby to -5 hp for healing without asking. His reasoning was he thought she was trying to put a spell on him and perceived the healing as an attack. I don’t fault him in the least. If someone runs up and starts casting at you without a word, you’re justified to have your character react defensively as though they’re under attack.
Healing people walking around injured is a good ice-breaker for a lot of people who may not be good at finding ways to approach other players. They’ve probably seen Abby do it and be social with almost everyone and figured it’s a good way to meet new people, so don’t be too hard on them.
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abby
Old School
Posts: 323
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Post by abby on Feb 12, 2019 10:53:51 GMT -5
I can believe you are hiding Barely injuried status, but once you get to injured it's going to show, specially to people that are trained healers so they recognize that your limping is from blunt trauma, or the ribs you are clutching from time to time might be broken. The Problem with this part, is if you are not willing to Roll a SPOT check... you may have 0 in spot and don't normaly see a thing.. then that is ''is my personal opinion meta gaming'' since you have not a perceptive person.. you may be incredible good at spotting it with a HEAL check once you are close and looking at the person up front. I don’t think spot is valid when you’re a combat healer who is literally scanning your party for signs of injury or wounds constantly. I could see spot in some instances, but healing is fair too. Like a trained smith would use his craft armor to spot a flaw in armor, a trained healer uses her healing skill to spot a flaw in your health. Seems to me you should use the greater, though I’d certainly concede penalties for distance. Like maybe -1 per each foot of distance from the injured person or something.
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Post by magiuss on Feb 12, 2019 10:59:26 GMT -5
Well I deal with this a lot as I play an Ilmateri healer whose religious duty is to stop you from suffering since Ilmater feels your pain too. Therefore Abby obsessively wants to heal wounds, but I don’t bug people unless they’re injured or worse. I firmly believe a trained healer is going to see physical signs at that point that you’d have to emote trying to hide if you don’t want people reacting too them. Then you can match bluff vs heal(or whatever) if someone is determined to react to them (as Abby usually is). I wouldn’t emote that you’re bleeding all over, because I assume you’ve bandaged yourself and not continuing to bleed as your hp isn’t still dropping. Abby always approaches, asking permission to tend your injuries without specifying what they are so you can fill in that blank. Then I make a healing check and ask in a tell what’s wrong and how many HP are missing based on the check. Unless someone is at “near death” I never heal without asking (other than her close friends) because I learned my lesson a long time ago as a noob healer when a dwarf smashed Abby to -5 hp for healing without asking. His reasoning was he thought she was trying to put a spell on him and perceived the healing as an attack. I don’t fault him in the least. If someone runs up and starts casting at you without a word, you’re justified to have your character react defensively as though they’re under attack. Healing people walking around injured is a good ice-breaker for a lot of people who may not be good at finding ways to approach other players. They’ve probably seen Abby do it and be social with almost everyone and figured it’s a good way to meet new people, so don’t be too hard on them. I will Say Abby.. that you are one of the Few, i have met, that are actully making the heal rolls inspecting the wounds. doing the roll play about the healing.. and i have enjoyed your Roll play in this
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Post by Southpaw on Feb 12, 2019 11:02:54 GMT -5
I think part of the difficulty on this part might be in deciding just how hard it is to actually see a particular thing, in this case, evidence of injury. Even a result of zero on a spot check doesn't mean you are temporarily blind, it means you successfully spot that which has a DC of zero or less to spot. If you're standing around in the GG square, you see Frubo, Waric, the buildings, trees, road, etc. On the other hand, the 3e PHB has you detecting the presence of invisible things by seeing evidence they are there on a DC of 20. So a character with 0 spot skill who takes 10 on the spot check is half way from seeing a building to seeing signs of something magically invisible being present. The question then is a matter of just how difficult it is to see that a character has had a rough day. Personally, I think "half way to detecting invisible things" is going to see quite a lot.
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Post by magiuss on Feb 12, 2019 11:03:35 GMT -5
The Problem with this part, is if you are not willing to Roll a SPOT check... you may have 0 in spot and don't normaly see a thing.. then that is ''is my personal opinion meta gaming'' since you have not a perceptive person.. you may be incredible good at spotting it with a HEAL check once you are close and looking at the person up front. I don’t think spot is valid when you’re a combat healer who is literally scanning your party for signs of injury or wounds constantly. I could see spot in some instances, but healing is fair too. Like a trained smith would use his craft armor to spot a flaw in armor, a trained healer uses her healing skill to spot a flaw in your health. Seems to me you should use the greater, though I’d certainly concede penalties for distance. Like maybe -1 per each foot of distance from the injured person or something. The point is Abby.. that you are actully doing the RP... And the purpose with this post.. ( even though it might have been a Rant) was actully to make Focus for people that this may Ruin the RP for some. and that a Tell is alway a good idea... before just assuming things
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Post by Animayhem on Feb 12, 2019 11:05:11 GMT -5
I always do so with any of my characters. I roll a heal check and I usually will phrase it as a question.Many times people turn the request down and that is fine Due to the limitations of the game engine all we can see is injured or badly injured. Those who are injured, as it has been mentioned can rp the extent of the injury or armor damage. Role play is a two way street.
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Andros
Old School
I only know that I know nothing
Posts: 437
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Post by Andros on Feb 12, 2019 11:05:12 GMT -5
I can believe you are hiding Barely injuried status, but once you get to injured it's going to show, specially to people that are trained healers so they recognize that your limping is from blunt trauma, or the ribs you are clutching from time to time might be broken. The Problem with this part, is if you are not willing to Roll a SPOT check... you may have 0 in spot and don't normaly see a thing.. then that is ''is my personal opinion meta gaming'' since you have not a perceptive person.. you may be incredible good at spotting it with a HEAL check once you are close and looking at the person up front. Spot is meant to be used to see hiden things, or things a character unaware of, if your character is actively trying to hide his injuries for whatever reason, ok you must roll perform or hide or bluff or something and the other party rolls Spot to see if they notice something weird. If a character walks into greatgaunt in plain view without trying to hide his status then no roll is necesary to see what's in front my character IMO. We must also remember most healers have high Wisdom so they actually have a pretty decent untrained spot and should be acutely aware of their surroundings. One thing I do want to say though, the healer should always ask what the nature of the wound is and not just assume someone is bleeding because they see the injured tag. For example in the rare cases where I heal someone in greagaunt (I only heal badly wounded and near death, Injured guys can though it out if they don't ask) I say something like "My god man! you look a mess, what happened to you?" or "Are you alright? you look wounded". Or something along those lines to try and get information of what exactly is the status of the other character since I as a player don't know what happened to him and thus don't know what my character sees exactly.
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Post by magiuss on Feb 12, 2019 11:05:46 GMT -5
I think part of the difficulty on this part might be in deciding just how hard it is to actually see a particular thing, in this case, evidence of injury. Even a result of zero on a spot check doesn't mean you are temporarily blind, it means you successfully spot that which has a DC of zero or less to spot. If you're standing around in the GG square, you see Frubo, Waric, the buildings, trees, road, etc. On the other hand, the 3e PHB has you detecting the presence of invisible things by seeing evidence they are there on a DC of 20. So a character with 0 spot skill who takes 10 on the spot check is half way from seeing a building to seeing signs of something magically invisible being present. The question then is a matter of just how difficult it is to see that a character has had a rough day. Personally, I think "half way to detecting invisible things" is going to see quite a lot. The point South.. is that if you are not willing to interact in RP with rolls, then you are depriving me the chance to.. And you here.. don't mean you.. just in genereal.. im not blaming anyone.. these are my personal opinions.
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Post by Animayhem on Feb 12, 2019 11:06:27 GMT -5
The Problem with this part, is if you are not willing to Roll a SPOT check... you may have 0 in spot and don't normaly see a thing.. then that is ''is my personal opinion meta gaming'' since you have not a perceptive person.. you may be incredible good at spotting it with a HEAL check once you are close and looking at the person up front. Spot is meant to be used to see hiden things, or things a character unaware of, if your character is actively trying to hide his injuries for whatever reason, ok you must roll perform or hide or bluff or something and the other party rolls Spot to see if they notice something weird. If a character walks into greatgaunt in plain view without trying to hide his status then no roll is necesary to see what's in front my character IMO. We must also remember most healers have high Wisdom so they actually have a pretty decent untrained spot and should be acutely aware of their surroundings. One thing I do want to say though, the healer should always ask what the nature of the wound is and not just assume someone is bleeding because they see the injured tag. For example in the rare cases where I heal someone in greagaunt (I only heal badly wounded and near death, Injured guys can though it out if they don't ask) I say something like "My god man! you look a mess, what happened to you?" or "Are you alright? you look wounded" or something along those lines to try and get information of what exactly is the status of the other character since I as a player don't know what happened to him and thus don't know what my character sees exactly. This. A healer is role playing their part. The "injured" should role play theirs.
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Post by magiuss on Feb 12, 2019 11:07:49 GMT -5
One thing I do want to say though, the healer should always ask what the nature of the wound is and not just assume someone is bleeding because they see the injured tag. For example in the rare cases where I heal someone in greagaunt (I only heal badly wounded and near death, Injured guys can though it out if they don't ask) I say something like "My god man! you look a mess, what happened to you?" or "Are you alright? you look wounded" or something along those lines to try and get information of what exactly is the status of the other character since I as a player don't know what happened to him and thus don't know what my character sees exactly. Exactly.. you RP then.. thats all im asking. insted of taking my choices away.
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Post by magiuss on Feb 12, 2019 11:10:42 GMT -5
And When i say you.. me my ... i am meaning this in a Generel sense..
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Post by Southpaw on Feb 12, 2019 11:14:41 GMT -5
I think part of the difficulty on this part might be in deciding just how hard it is to actually see a particular thing, in this case, evidence of injury. Even a result of zero on a spot check doesn't mean you are temporarily blind, it means you successfully spot that which has a DC of zero or less to spot. If you're standing around in the GG square, you see Frubo, Waric, the buildings, trees, road, etc. On the other hand, the 3e PHB has you detecting the presence of invisible things by seeing evidence they are there on a DC of 20. So a character with 0 spot skill who takes 10 on the spot check is half way from seeing a building to seeing signs of something magically invisible being present. The question then is a matter of just how difficult it is to see that a character has had a rough day. Personally, I think "half way to detecting invisible things" is going to see quite a lot. The point South.. is that if you are not willing to interact in RP with rolls, then you are depriving me the chance to.. And you here.. don't mean you.. just in genereal.. im not blaming anyone.. these are my personal opinions. I do get what you're saying. For my part, if I see a character in injured condition, I generally have my character start interacting by saying something to the effect of, "You look like you've had a rough day," without specifying at all what my character is seeing. In my mind, if the player were to have their character deny anything was wrong, I'd honestly play it off as my character misperceiving, which is possible. For me, I'm not about insisting my character accurately perceives the condition of the other character to the point of hashing it out over die rolls. To me, the fact of portraying my own character as caring enough to say something is enough that I'm satisfied I've portrayed my own character, I don't have to have my character "be right" about the other's status. I'm more just responding to some of the game mechanical side of things. The reason I said what I did is probably more because I see the game mechanics of it and the sharing of role play as two separate issues. I personally find an argument that sticks to the real issue at hand without drawing in separate issues to be a stronger argument, especially if the case about the second issue isn't as strong. But that also means that to me, if the case about game mechanics isn't as strong, that says nothing about the matter of sharing/dictating RP, which is one where I agree with you.
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trauson
New Member
Idk.... Alive?
Posts: 95
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Post by trauson on Feb 12, 2019 11:32:41 GMT -5
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Post by Defunct Fiddlesticks on Feb 12, 2019 11:36:43 GMT -5
My Triadic healer is not going to heal you unless you ask him to or give him permission, he always goes the "Are you hurt?"/"you look rough"/"Is something ailing you?" route.
I learned early on to give people the room to respond. I'm not going to roleplay that my character is blind, I'm going to enquire and give the other player an opportunity to reply in the way they want to. They can accept his help, or refuse aid and he'll walk away. It's about respecting the player and the character's wishes.
However, I have to admit to rolling my eyes when someone used to pass on Henrik's help because they just "needed a night's sleep". Sleep's great but it's no substitute for stitches.
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Post by xeneize on Feb 12, 2019 12:13:13 GMT -5
I never, ever, roleplay anything about a character's HP status I witness until the person in question roleplays it out. I think people should do that more often, as I too agree that it falls in the metagame terrain to run up to them and bump them with healing without any roleplay pointing out the state of the character IC. It can also be considered godmodding, as you are forcibly roleplaying out the character's state in the other player's stead.
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