Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 703
|
Post by Manshin on Jan 18, 2019 4:27:32 GMT -5
Why would you get experience that helps you become a stronger warrior by talking? I've gotten tons of XP just standing around roleplaying, and its a nice surprise... like a pat on the head by the DMs, but seriously, I roleplay because I enjoy it. Does anyone think not getting RP XP somehow means the focus on FRC isn't RP? I've played on a lot of NWN servers, and FRC is among the best roleplaying I've seen. No RP XP needed to accomplish it. Creating in-depth characters that feel real and have their own history and lives is what makes the world immersive and enjoyable. You shouldn't need XP to encourage you to roleplay if you like roleplaying. To me, canon realism is what allows for immersion. Immersion is what it's all about. If you can't immerse, you may as well be playing World of Warcraft or some action game. Each time I have to think about the rules behind the curtain, ESSPECIALLY stuff like PvP rules, it's like a big fat reminder that I'm playing a game instead of immersing into a world. I don't want to be warned OOC if someone's going to hurt my character, because my character doesn't know. I don't want it to be impossible to hurt my character because of some immersion breaking rule that has nothing to do with canon realism just because some people get upset at having to respawn sometimes. I mean it's a PvP allowed server. I know there are lots of them out there that aren't PvP, so if you can't handle PvP, why be here where so many players love and enjoy PvP? As far as I'm concerned, if you can get attacked without warning in the real world, for reasons you may never understand... then you should be able to get attacked in FRC. Its how I suspend disbelief and fade into Faerun for a few hours at a time. You don't always have to be safe and winning to enjoy.
|
|
Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 703
|
Post by Manshin on Jan 18, 2019 4:39:19 GMT -5
Hm... As I see, history of FRC is not only long, but bloody and dark. From time to time I meet people who plays not very often and who do not share my happiness. They do not speak a lot, but I feel something behind. PS: If the server is so greatly targeted on role play, then why does the character do not receive experience for communication? In fact, experience is given only for murder. It's an old server based on a medieval setting filled with violence war and darkness... why wouldn't its history be long, bloody and dark? We are all roleplaying armed lunatics that go exterminate inferior beings and steal their wealth to buy better, more efficient ways to exterminate bigger, less inferior beings. Even if your hearts desire is to roleplay a happy sunshiny person who is never violent... you're still in a violent, bloody and dark world filled with... above. I roleplay a happy-go-lucky non-violent pacifist, but I still expect lots of dark, bloody violence all around her, even if she's weak and defenseless, because that's the world I selected from the little multi-player list. If people log on, and find its too violent, or their's too much PvP… isn't there an entire giant list of servers to choose from where you don't have to PvP ever? I'm pretty sure I even saw a My Little Pony server once. I guess I'm confused to what the problem is.
|
|
|
Post by Always_a_hero on Jan 18, 2019 9:24:34 GMT -5
That quote from Sergeil is a bit confusing, since "murder" would be considered for killing someone protected by the law. Slayer monsters wouldn't then count as murder in this sense. If Sergeil instead meant a DM gave xp for a murder, then it must've been a really good one!
As for the "killing lesser beings" in PvE, could most people have a problem in being the lesser being? I'm not saying people getting killed are bad at building their own characters, but not everybody is a powergamer and there will be weaker builds than others. In most cases, people are complaining about a murderer with high stealth or who uses invisibility... With reasons. But then, if you get sneaked out of nowhere without a chance to play the game, die and have to lose and xp you spent time of your life to get...
You could say "oh well, another reason to keep playing the game" or be frustrated. And RP for PvP becomes a way to attenuate this frustration. If you prefer not being warned beforehand, so be it. But the -least- whivh should be done is to explain the PvP afterwards so there's no misunderstanding leading to an OOC grudge between players.
|
|
|
Post by Razgriz on Jan 18, 2019 10:54:11 GMT -5
Honestly, PvP is usually easy to avoid, but I do agree that not all find it fun to be cornered and forced to die fighting, to die after a knockdown + sneak attack combo, or due insta kill spells. If the build up of the story reached the point where the death of a rival is the next step, then ok. However, there would be less upset players if deadly PvP was kept as the culmnitation of the story arc and done in moderation.
I doubt anyone wants to die over and over again to the same character(s), and thus those playing the murderous PCs should seek diferent targets instead of constantly going after those that they already defeated. You won, now move on and let the victim or the defeated character decide what to do next. Now, if the defeated characters are seeking revenge or justice after finding out who killed them, then all the better for you.
The one instance that would truly bother me(not saying that it hs happened yet), would be when some Epic mass murderous PC suddenly decides to kill every other character in Greatgaunt, without DMs watching, and even if those characters are too low level to represent a threat to the murderer. If the claim is "to leave no witnesses", sorry but that is just selfish gameplay, borderline griefing and an OOC ego boost. There is no story to tell if nobody is left alive to tell it. Certain "Banshee Wailer" evil wizard comes to mind as well, but thankfully that character is no longer active.
|
|
|
Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Jan 18, 2019 11:47:56 GMT -5
Honestly, PvP is usually easy to avoid, but I do agree that not all find it fun to be cornered and forced to die fighting, to die after a knockdown + sneak attack combo, or due insta kill spells. If the build up of the story reached the point where the death of a rival is the next step, then ok. However, there would be less upset players if deadly PvP was kept as the culmnitation of the story arc and done in moderation. I doubt anyone wants to die over and over again to the same character(s), and thus those playing the murderous PCs should seek diferent targets instead of constantly going after those that they already defeated. You won, now move on and let the victim or the defeated character decide what to do next. Now, if the defeated characters are seeking revenge or justice after finding out who killed them, then all the better for you. The one instance that would truly bother me(not saying that it hs happened yet), would be when some Epic mass murderous PC suddenly decides to kill every other character in Greatgaunt, without DMs watching, and even if those characters are too low level to represent a threat to the murderer. If the claim is "to leave no witnesses", sorry but that is just selfish gameplay, borderline griefing and an OOC ego boost. There is no story to tell if nobody is left alive to tell it. Certain "Banshee Wailer" evil wizard comes to mind as well, but thankfully that character is no longer active. I resent being called a griefer. The rules are simple is something Gos down pvp or not and witnesses are there. You better belive I'll kill every witness. Not worth leaving any alive then getting auto jail sentence.
|
|
|
Post by Southpaw on Jan 18, 2019 11:57:29 GMT -5
Honestly, PvP is usually easy to avoid, but I do agree that not all find it fun to be cornered and forced to die fighting, to die after a knockdown + sneak attack combo, or due insta kill spells. If the build up of the story reached the point where the death of a rival is the next step, then ok. However, there would be less upset players if deadly PvP was kept as the culmnitation of the story arc and done in moderation. I doubt anyone wants to die over and over again to the same character(s), and thus those playing the murderous PCs should seek diferent targets instead of constantly going after those that they already defeated. You won, now move on and let the victim or the defeated character decide what to do next. Now, if the defeated characters are seeking revenge or justice after finding out who killed them, then all the better for you. The one instance that would truly bother me(not saying that it hs happened yet), would be when some Epic mass murderous PC suddenly decides to kill every other character in Greatgaunt, without DMs watching, and even if those characters are too low level to represent a threat to the murderer. If the claim is "to leave no witnesses", sorry but that is just selfish gameplay, borderline griefing and an OOC ego boost. There is no story to tell if nobody is left alive to tell it. Certain "Banshee Wailer" evil wizard comes to mind as well, but thankfully that character is no longer active. I resent being called a griefer. The rules are simple is something Gos down pvp or not and witnesses are there. You better belive I'll kill every witness. Not worth leaving any alive then getting auto jail sentence. I honestly see both sides on this, but I think the factor to consider is NPC's. It's not realistic to think you can kill every witness. Even just the NPC's that are represented, if a DM isn't there to have Frubo run one direction, Waric run another, Valina run in a third direction, and the guys at the training dummy run in a fourth direction, then the challenge of killing every witness isn't represented. The civilian NPC's aren't going to stand around waiting for you to kill them as witnesses, they're going to scatter, and your wail of the banshee doesn't have a 200 yard radius area of effect. So it's logical to assume that a minimum of 75% of NPC witnesses escaped, and not even just one or two. Inside an inn, there are unrepresented windows, and it's totally reasonable to assume that between Hashard, Kale, Marister Zorastryl, Biedello, and the others, someone threw a chair through a window and hopped out. Even in what's represented, I believe the Regal Griffon, for instance, has a back door half the NPC's can easily zip right through the moment things start to go down.
|
|
|
Post by StabbingNirvana on Jan 18, 2019 12:17:44 GMT -5
I resent being called a griefer. The rules are simple is something Gos down pvp or not and witnesses are there. You better belive I'll kill every witness. Not worth leaving any alive then getting auto jail sentence. Bro. Just RP taping your mouth shut, dying your armor, wearing a different helmet and using a secondary weapon you only use for murdering and never show to anyone. Then use shadow shield or ethereal Visage or whatever its called wands and you don't have to kill any witnesses.
|
|
|
Post by tingly on Jan 18, 2019 12:40:46 GMT -5
It's easy to forget, but there are many, many more NPCs in the world than exist on screen. In any populated area, there will always be more potential witnesses than the game accounts for.
|
|
|
Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Jan 18, 2019 12:41:00 GMT -5
I resent being called a griefer. The rules are simple is something Gos down pvp or not and witnesses are there. You better belive I'll kill every witness. Not worth leaving any alive then getting auto jail sentence. Bro. Just RP taping your mouth shut, dying your armor, wearing a different helmet and using a secondary weapon you only use for murdering and never show to anyone. Then use shadow shield or ethereal Visage or whatever its called wands and you don't have to kill any witnesses. for others this might work but that doesn't fit how I rp. Maybe Vlaric would do this? But most of my pics wouldn't take that option.
|
|
Andros
Old School
I only know that I know nothing
Posts: 437
|
Post by Andros on Jan 18, 2019 12:55:57 GMT -5
Your realize the above was an example of what could happen if the arena idea was being used for the only pvp allowed on the server right? Not sure I follow the point of the comment on that. You realize I was using your example of how no combat in towns is bad, to show pvp combat in front of guards over mean words makes no sense IC right?
|
|
Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 703
|
Post by Manshin on Jan 18, 2019 13:03:33 GMT -5
Bro. Just RP taping your mouth shut, dying your armor, wearing a different helmet and using a secondary weapon you only use for murdering and never show to anyone. Then use shadow shield or ethereal Visage or whatever its called wands and you don't have to kill any witnesses. for others this might work but that doesn't fit how I rp. Maybe Vlaric would do this? But most of my pics wouldn't take that option. If you go into a populated area and kill someone without some kind of disguise, you’re going to get caught. You can’t kill all the witnesses. Like someone else said, not every commoner can be represented by NPCs, it should be assumed that streets are bustling. I could see it in an alley, inn room or in the wilds, but in the open streets, there will be witnesses.
|
|
|
Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Jan 18, 2019 13:03:48 GMT -5
Your realize the above was an example of what could happen if the arena idea was being used for the only pvp allowed on the server right? Not sure I follow the point of the comment on that. You realize I was using your example of how no combat in towns is bad, to show pvp combat in front of guards over mean words makes no sense IC right? how does it make zero sense? Some PC have built a reputation. When one allows people to tarnish said reputation fear factor dies down. So how does it make zero rp sense. Plenty of rp gos behind killings. Just because in your opinion it is silly doesnt diminish the fact that it is valid n it has valid rp points.
|
|
Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 703
|
Post by Manshin on Jan 18, 2019 13:15:26 GMT -5
Big disadvantage of PvP is loss of confidence in others. In fact, if murder must roleplay first, then everyone, who has started to talk to you is potential murder. People are not very open now, but will be even less open and less friendly in future. PS: it is strange, that gold rule has so limited usage, that even not applicable to manage so simple things as PvP. Everyone who talks to you in real life is a potential murderer. I don’t understand why knowing you live in a dangerous world would make you less open to role playing with others? If anything, if you play a PC who doesn’t want to fight, it should make you “more” open. I play without a doubt, the weakest PCs on the server. No weapons or attack of any kind, bad armor, and triple 8’s in my physical stats. In order to avoid being murdered, they have no choice but to role play with others and make loyal protective friends because they KNOW it’s a dark dangerous and bloody world. Look I am living proof that it’s not only people with “Power Builds” that like and want full PvP. I’m also living proof that you don’t need a powerful power build to defend against potential PvP. My weak Ilmatari are pretty safe in general because they are good at making people not want to hurt them, and have tons of buds that would avenge/defend them. This was accomplished 100% by RP. Anyone can avoid PvP through RP the vast majority of the time. You might get killed once in a while and have to eat a respawn, but it’ll only create new things to RP about when you do. It’s no big.
|
|
|
Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Jan 18, 2019 13:18:52 GMT -5
I'd also love to add this. Harassment is a law on the laws in game yet. When well known evils do in fact get verbally harassed not one dm upholds that law. So what is a player to do but act accordingly. When the law fails.
|
|
|
Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Jan 18, 2019 13:46:41 GMT -5
Guess it was incitement and disturbing the peace but same diff.
|
|
|
Post by Razgriz on Jan 18, 2019 15:12:17 GMT -5
Guess it was incitement and disturbing the peace but same diff. Dude, chill out. My comment was not because any of your characters. The "Banshee Wailer" was Red Wizard called ("Banshee Wailer" to avoid further forum fires) that was not played by your or any of the Thayans that make an effort.
|
|
|
Post by Lady Frost on Jan 18, 2019 15:23:27 GMT -5
Big disadvantage of PvP is loss of confidence in others. In fact, if murder must roleplay first, then everyone, who has started to talk to you is potential murder. People are not very open now, but will be even less open and less friendly in future. PS: it is strange, that gold rule has so limited usage, that even not applicable to manage so simple things as PvP. Everyone who talks to you in real life is a potential murderer. I don’t understand why knowing you live in a dangerous world would make you less open to role playing with others? If anything, if you play a PC who doesn’t want to fight, it should make you “more” open. I play without a doubt, the weakest PCs on the server. No weapons or attack of any kind, bad armor, and triple 8’s in my physical stats. In order to avoid being murdered, they have no choice but to role play with others and make loyal protective friends because they KNOW it’s a dark dangerous and bloody world. Look I am living proof that it’s not only people with “Power Builds” that like and want full PvP. I’m also living proof that you don’t need a powerful power build to defend against potential PvP. My weak Ilmatari are pretty safe in general because they are good at making people not want to hurt them, and have tons of buds that would avenge/defend them. This was accomplished 100% by RP. Anyone can avoid PvP through RP the vast majority of the time. You might get killed once in a while and have to eat a respawn, but it’ll only create new things to RP about when you do. It’s no big. This is why Zodika always considered Mouse the most dangerous adventurer. Not because she was high level, but because nearly -everyone- liked her, good, evil, smart, dumb. If someone was her enemy she'd have nearly the entire adventuring community to help her deal with it.
|
|
Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 703
|
Post by Manshin on Jan 18, 2019 15:33:51 GMT -5
Yup. Solid RP and making alliances is stronger than any power build. No contest. That's why I never complained about team evil having tough-as-nails characters.. they needed it, there are more team good, and they can draw a lot more swords to the cause with a little RP. I can't think of a better incentive for "role playing" than the fear of PvP. Better than RP XP or anything else. In the wild, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives right?
|
|
Andros
Old School
I only know that I know nothing
Posts: 437
|
Post by Andros on Jan 18, 2019 16:08:42 GMT -5
You realize I was using your example of how no combat in towns is bad, to show pvp combat in front of guards over mean words makes no sense IC right? how does it make zero sense? Some PC have built a reputation. When one allows people to tarnish said reputation fear factor dies down. So how does it make zero rp sense. Plenty of rp gos behind killings. Just because in your opinion it is silly doesnt diminish the fact that it is valid n it has valid rp points. To me it doesn't make sense to go to jail for life, for murder over someone badmouthing my mom. Which is what would happen in character if this wasn't a video game with a respawn button and I attacked them right in the town square in front of all the guards. However if someone trashtalks you and then you follow them outside of town or into their room or whatever and then kill them when they are alone, that makes perfect sense to me.
|
|
|
Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Jan 18, 2019 16:28:36 GMT -5
Guess it was incitement and disturbing the peace but same diff. Dude, chill out. My comment was not because any of your characters. The "Banshee Wailer" was Red Wizard called ("Banshee Wailer" to avoid further forum fires) that was not played by your or any of the Thayans that make an effort. I am chill? I was stating facts.
|
|
|
Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Jan 18, 2019 16:30:48 GMT -5
how does it make zero sense? Some PC have built a reputation. When one allows people to tarnish said reputation fear factor dies down. So how does it make zero rp sense. Plenty of rp gos behind killings. Just because in your opinion it is silly doesnt diminish the fact that it is valid n it has valid rp points. To me it doesn't make sense to go to jail for life, for murder over someone badmouthing my mom. Which is what would happen in character if this wasn't a video game with a respawn button and I attacked them right in the town square in front of all the guards. However if someone trashtalks you and then you follow them outside of town or into their room or whatever and then kill them when they are alone, that makes perfect sense to me. a great many in the real world get away with murder even in daylight Infront of crowds.
|
|
|
Post by prickinsmack on Jan 18, 2019 19:17:00 GMT -5
You can have open and fair fights outside any city if you were looking for something arena like. People used to walk outside of Great Gaunt to settle things or have a friendly match all the time.
|
|
|
Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Jan 18, 2019 19:39:55 GMT -5
a great many in the real world get away with murder even in daylight Infront of crowds. There is different between real life and game. In the game we can be much more noble, braver, kinder. In game we can realize not our personalities as we are, but as we want be. idk about your ideals but mine are nothing like that I play out in game what I cannot in the real world. Plus every story needs a villain
|
|
Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 703
|
Post by Manshin on Jan 18, 2019 23:19:58 GMT -5
Sergeil, you seem like a super nice person, are you sure this is the game for you? You can literally take the "assassin" class in NWN. There are sneak attacks, poison, , disarm, there are literally tons of classes, feats and tactics that have nothing to do with fair fighting... built into the engine. Why on earth would you expect "fair" fights in an arena only? Would that really be "fair" to all those stealth based PCs who depend on getting an ambush in to cripple the superior fighting skills of the weapon masters, paladins and clerics? Have you ever tried to "fight" a prepared high level wizard in open combat with a melee character? I like to have a million ways to tackle an enemy and a million ways to look over my shoulder for when I play, and some of my BEST memories of FRC involve PvP… and I've only really done it a handful of times. But they were all intense, exciting and super fun, win or loose. To put it more plainly... a large number of people on this server do NOT want to be made to fight all PvP in some immersion breaking arena because some people get their feels hurt by PvP. I can guarantee you if that rule got implicated, I'd be out that door faster than I came in. I doubt I'm alone. Like it or not, there is a community here that goes back over 10 years and most of us are pretty happy with how things are set up. It seems incomprehensible to me that anyone would come in and say "PvP hurts muh feels, make it go away please." Players would go bananas if that happened. I'm all about "gentlemen's" PvP, but PvE is frankly boring compared to a good PvP and I would never play on a server without it.
|
|