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Post by manicpixie on Jan 12, 2019 20:48:55 GMT -5
The thing is, PvP on FRC isn’t omptimized. If you really want some realistic PvP you need the characters to drop a corpse with their money and weapons (if it is equipped) when they die, so anyone can actually carry the corpse and burn/raise/do anything that pleases the person who carries the corpse and it’s stuff, that would make PvP AND death a really serious matter in server, because it isn’t currently the case. I think it would generate a lot of RP, which is something that actually miss on FRC sometimes. I have played for a long on a server where that system is applied and it works very well I think! I’ve played on that server as well. As much as I totally think corpses should be movable (because in real life they are), that server does that regardless of cause of death, respawn is far more costly to the point hardly anyone ever does it, there is a solid subdual system, execution for murder can result in forced permadeath, there is no death amnesia so you have to face the music if your target comes back, and when I was there, the server had a pretty serious ethic about “role play first, then consider subdual, and don’t gank without prior interaction,” all of which changes the environment regarding PVP. As much as I greatly prefer that style of play with PVP, I think if you alter one part without altering the rest, you’ll only add irritation, because each part on the other server plays a role in supporting the whole. I don't know if I'm thinking of the same server as you but on the one I tried like that people burn through characters quickly and nobody gets to be too high of a level. Things like permanent death from PVP and looting corpses work when you can have another character of equal ability and with similar stuff in a short time without too much investment but it's a recipe for disaster if you level and gain wealth as slowly as you do here.
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Post by Rane on Jan 13, 2019 5:40:17 GMT -5
Also remember that this server is roleplay first.
So, the act of healing someone does mean a lot more than just a click.
A healing kit requires first aid to be administered.
It’s not as simple as splashing something on someone and saying congrats you are healed.
I have characters that would be horrified if someone just walked up and started touching them without a single word.
I have characters that would think it’s a game.
I also have characters that would turn you into a bloody smear fir touching them.
If your roleplay involves touching someone, roleplay it.
Don’t just do it, or be prepared to face the consequences.
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Post by Aoi on Jan 13, 2019 5:54:08 GMT -5
Ohayo. I confess that i haven't read all of this thread. But i'd like to give my own thoughts to it as well. I also confess that i -am- one of those players ho don't like PvP and the way it's handeled on this server. I understand why there's a rule that the victim has no memory of who killed them or what happened. If so, they would go after their murderer to take revenge and so it would go back and fro. Player A kills player B, player B kills player A just out of revenge and so on. Stress for the players and for the DMs can be kinda prevented that way. But it can be also abused, because the murderer can do what they what because the victim doesn't remember anyway. So like Animayhem said, they go free. Where is the consequence then? However, i'm drifting away from what i wanted to say actually. In fact i try to avoid PvP where i can because the way it is done on this server, i had almost no positive experience from it at all. I rather experienced that players level fast, faster than i can watch at times. Just to buntly kill other players and that has nothing to do with RP for me. RP is more than killing pixels in engine for me. I had only one PvP experience i really liked, thanks to Darius a while ago. My actual main character Davina was threatened by Darius alongside Marister. But it gave her a great chance for RP as well, as she could use her brains and in my eyes, she won. Even though she had a way lower level than Darius she won just by taking actions in RP without any physical fight! It was a great chance to show what she can do and helped her to develop and grow in RP, not just engine. That's the only kind of PvP i like: if things are done in RP, not just by primitive beating up eachother. I reallly love Sergei's idea of an arena. One could make it the only PvP area so people can meet up there and keep their PvP fights there. KInda like "See you in the arena!" or something like that. That way, those players who don't want or can't have PvP are unburdened by PvP and conflichts and can play and develop their characters in peace without being interrupted by PvP. That is also why i myself actually play one of the most peaceful and relaxed RDDs and a Triadic who cares about healing those in need more than hunting evil Player characters. I simply prefer working together and seeing everyone having fun instead of being killed and having the drama that comes with the kills. I try to hold up the positive sides of RP for long time actually. I like to get to know other characters, learn about their story and the player. If anyone is interested in such as well, just PM me. I also yearn for a rule change. I would wish there was an option: If a player doesn't want PvP, they can refuse and the other part has to accept it. Sorry for the blunt words partially, you can stone me if you like. But that's just my two cents.
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Post by Southpaw on Jan 13, 2019 7:53:04 GMT -5
I'm glad to see so many people chiming in on this thread getting their thoughts out. I think that what keeps PVP meaningful and fun to play in is when there's a lot of different reasons for PC's to get in conflict with each other, with lots of different ways it could resolve. I honestly believe that lame PVP happens when players who like PVP get bored and start inventing their own reasons to get in fights just for the sake of it. To be entirely honest, I don't blame them! I don't feel the same way, but I don't blame people for seeking what they like. When there's lots and lots of interesting potential conflicts going on, it becomes more difficult to fall into a lame PVP. If you think that more conflict will mean more lame PVP, it could become tempting to start creating less conflict between PC's, but I think the answer to avoiding lame PVP is just the opposite, a steady stream of interesting reasons for PC's to compete with each other over whose way things will go.
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Post by hellscream123 on Jan 13, 2019 8:56:01 GMT -5
I think, to continue discussion about PvP, we have to refresh in mind Gold rule of FRC server: "have fun, but not at the expense of others" frc.proboards.com/thread/29379/server-rules--- 1. The Golden Rule of FRC - The main rule on FRC is to have fun, but not at the expense of others. Be kind to your fellow roleplayers. Remember that the other characters are real people behind the screens of their own computers. It is unacceptable on FRC to harass or abuse other Players or Staff. --- I think, that forcing of character to participate in PvP break this rule. Logical fallecy: we all agree to pvp by playing here. You are not forced it is a co-signment of play within the server. Nothing says however you're not allowed to discuss with the players involved how you want to handle an event. Communication is the key to great rp. That's a rhyme i love because of my grand total 5 pvp engagements 4 had full discussions thst lead to wonderous moments. 1 was a quick rushed brawl that went no where. PVP is managed best by those involved. If you want to PvP. Prep your reasons. Log your work. If you don't want to pvp. Back out. Retreat. Or surrender. Make the interaction about RP.
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Post by Lady Frost on Jan 13, 2019 10:37:05 GMT -5
PVP is managed best by those involved. If you want to PvP. Prep your reasons. Log your work. If you don't want to pvp. Back out. Retreat. Or surrender. Make the interaction about RP. I think the colored words are important, for those starting combat PvP and those trying to avoid combat PvP - and I say 'combat' because there are many forms of PvP, many of which will eventually lead to combat PvP. If you want to avoid combat PvP try to avoid other forms of PvP, like spreading rumors, politics or bad-mouthing others. For those initiating combat PvP try to give the other character a way out. Offer a viable solution for them. I may be fining them, demanding some action from them, or something else, but give them a way to avoid it. Sometimes it can't be avoided, but many times it can - especially if they're far lower level characters. For those having combat PvP threatened on them - for the sake of all things holy, PLEASE TAKE IT. Find a way to back out, retreat, or avoid it. There few things more annoying than a character that goes on and on until they get killed and then complains. Take the outs given to you if you don't want to combat PvP. Sometimes those outs are in playing sessions previous to the current one where combat is happening, pay attention.
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Post by malclave on Jan 13, 2019 12:09:19 GMT -5
I think, that forcing of character to participate in PvP break this rule. In theory, it's not "forced", even beyond the standard "you consent by logging in". There should always be a way to decline. If a character is offered an out but does not take it, then that's pretty much the same as actively accepting the challenge. For example, Lady Frost mentioned "fining" characters... depending on how something like that is presented, I might just choose to take the gold and xp loss than reward another player for (literal) highway robbery. And any complaints I would have would be directed at the PC in question, not the PvP system itself. About Lady Frost asking lower-level characters to decline, though... that kind of assumes that they have an idea of what level they're facing. When it's just some random character looking for someone to attack, that may not be easily known.
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Post by Aoi on Jan 13, 2019 12:34:16 GMT -5
I really get slowly annoyed by the sentence bluntly repeated here. I was told the same, you agree to pvp by logging in. But the fact that something is so, doesn’t mean it always has to stay so. Why not change the rule? Respecting each other’s taste and wishes is just a sign of maturity in my eyes. Still we all claim to be adults.
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Post by Animayhem on Jan 13, 2019 12:57:07 GMT -5
PVP is managed best by those involved. If you want to PvP. Prep your reasons. Log your work. If you don't want to pvp. Back out. Retreat. Or surrender. Make the interaction about RP. I think the colored words are important, for those starting combat PvP and those trying to avoid combat PvP - and I say 'combat' because there are many forms of PvP, many of which will eventually lead to combat PvP. If you want to avoid combat PvP try to avoid other forms of PvP, like spreading rumors, politics or bad-mouthing others. For those initiating combat PvP try to give the other character a way out. Offer a viable solution for them. I may be fining them, demanding some action from them, or something else, but give them a way to avoid it. Sometimes it can't be avoided, but many times it can - especially if they're far lower level characters. For those having combat PvP threatened on them - for the sake of all things holy, PLEASE TAKE IT. Find a way to back out, retreat, or avoid it. There few things more annoying than a character that goes on and on until they get killed and then complains. Take the outs given to you if you don't want to combat PvP. Sometimes those outs are in playing sessions previous to the current one where combat is happening, pay attention. This does not happen in actual game play in regards to the pvp's I was involved with I was not given any choices to back out it was" Oh well this is rp" was what I got. Three of the encounters I got an ooc raise so the death amnesia kicked in and I did not lose any xp. That softened the irritation some but left a bad taste in my month after having an enjoyable rp session.
Munroe Subdual does not replace PVP it adds to rp and gives victims an option. It seems its ok to have a player kill over and over again, yet victims cannot get anything done without a long drawn out ooc for the most part involved with Dms. So death amnesia is so players to not get hyper vengeful against the killer but the killer can kill as much as they like making it a crime for the victim to get even.
What of seeking justice and following the protocol to file reports etc? This is a response to the pvp which is denied by the death amnesia, subdual would help with this as the victim could remember and file a report.
The victim "getting even" with the killer is not PVP? It is a response to PVP
PVP here is one sided one the side of the perpetrator and victim be damned.
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Post by Razgriz on Jan 13, 2019 13:15:04 GMT -5
I really get slowly annoyed by the sentence bluntly repeated here. I was told the same, you agree to pvp by logging in. But the fact that something is so, doesn’t mean it always has to stay so. Why not change the rule? Respecting each other’s taste and wishes is just a sign of maturity in my eyes. Still we all claim to be adults. ;) As it has been mentioned, it is another part of RP. Without it, there is no conflict and without conflict, part of the setting dies. PvP is not only combat; PvP can be anything that puts a character at odds with other(s). Even sharing dark and/or questionable "facts" of other characters is PvP if the intent is to hinder their agendas and to make their plans backfire. Certain IC threads that make mention of "what transpired, and of who did what" come to mind as well. Such a rule cannot be made possible; it is easily abused (and not even intentionally) by those who still want to interact with their rivals, but without getting any consequence out of it. Being part of certain IC organizations can also lead to PvP at some point, because said organization is at odds with others that exist in the setting.
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Post by Aoi on Jan 13, 2019 14:03:29 GMT -5
I'm not a newbie to RP. I actually played on several strict german RP servers and also NWN2 servers before i came to FRC. But there was always a gap, always a loophole if you can't or don't want PvP. So...please don't tell me, one has to and will always have to. I simply would like the DMs to answer since such discussions where started several times since i started playing on FRC. What i mean is not that part of PvP ypu mentioned. I do speak of PvP where players lurk around to kill lowbies, with no deeper reason bit "because my chaacter is evil" or "Because my chatacter is crazy" or something. On other servers such was called griefing even. I'm just speaking of that kind of PvP that is done to kill other players just for fun. In that i must agree to Sergei, i see it has having fun on the expense of others if the other player doesn't like that komd of PvP. Conflicts, where you can retreat or escape or solve the problem without any fighting is ok of couse, if it also finds an end. But sure, PvP is not PvP.
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Post by Lady Frost on Jan 13, 2019 14:06:45 GMT -5
I think the colored words are important, for those starting combat PvP and those trying to avoid combat PvP - and I say 'combat' because there are many forms of PvP, many of which will eventually lead to combat PvP. If you want to avoid combat PvP try to avoid other forms of PvP, like spreading rumors, politics or bad-mouthing others. For those initiating combat PvP try to give the other character a way out. Offer a viable solution for them. I may be fining them, demanding some action from them, or something else, but give them a way to avoid it. Sometimes it can't be avoided, but many times it can - especially if they're far lower level characters. For those having combat PvP threatened on them - for the sake of all things holy, PLEASE TAKE IT. Find a way to back out, retreat, or avoid it. There few things more annoying than a character that goes on and on until they get killed and then complains. Take the outs given to you if you don't want to combat PvP. Sometimes those outs are in playing sessions previous to the current one where combat is happening, pay attention. This does not happen in actual game play in regards to the pvp's I was involved with I was not given any choices to back out it was" Oh well this is rp" was what I got. Three of the encounters I got an ooc raise so the death amnesia kicked in and I did not lose any xp. That softened the irritation some but left a bad taste in my month after having an enjoyable rp session. Munroe Subdual does not replace PVP it adds to rp and gives victims an option. It seems its ok to have a player kill over and over again, yet victims cannot get anything done without a long drawn out ooc for the most part involved with Dms. So death amnesia is so players to not get hyper vengeful against the killer but the killer can kill as much as they like making it a crime for the victim to get even. What of seeking justice and following the protocol to file reports etc? This is a response to the pvp which is denied by the death amnesia, subdual would help with this as the victim could remember and file a report.
The victim "getting even" with the killer is the not PVP? A response to PVP
PVP here is one sided one the side of the perpetrator and victim be damned.
You're right. It doesn't happen too often, which is why each time this topic is brought up I offer this same advice. I didn't mean to say it does happen; I meant to simply offer advice so maybe it will start to happen more.
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Post by malclave on Jan 13, 2019 14:13:51 GMT -5
As it has been mentioned, it is another part of RP. I think this gets down to the root of the disagreement. PvP (specifically, combat between characters) CAN BE a useful RP tool, but that doesn't mean it always is. The people supporting player combat are looking at this positive facet of PvP, while those opposed seem (to me, at least) to be looking at random, often one-sided, combat having little if anything to do with RP. I don't expect the PvP rules to change, since they seem to be working fairly well with the existing player base. However, I think threads like this are useful both in providing a periodic release of frustration and in helping each side to see the other point of view.
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Post by Fluffy the Mad on Jan 13, 2019 14:18:44 GMT -5
I'm not a newbie to RP. I actually played on several strict german RP servers and also NWN2 servers before i came to FRC. But there was always a gap, always a loophole if you can't or don't want PvP. So...please don't tell me, one has to and will always have to. I simply would like the DMs to answer since such discussions where started several times since i started playing on FRC. What i mean is not that part of PvP ypu mentioned. I do speak of PvP where players lurk around to kill lowbies, with no deeper reason bit "because my chaacter is evil" or "Because my chatacter is crazy" or something. On other servers such was called griefing even. I'm just speaking of that kind of PvP that is done to kill other players just for fun. In that i must agree to Sergei, i see it has having fun on the expense of others if the other player doesn't like that komd of PvP. Conflicts, where you can retreat or escape or solve the problem without any fighting is ok of couse, if it also finds an end. But sure, PvP is not PvP. A character performing such PVP acts for the reasons listed, namely 'Because of alignment' or 'insanity,' without sufficient background RP setting up such encounters 'is' considered griefing. If you feel this has been the case, please take it to a DM. The particular alignment you have in mind is considered 'Chaotic Stupid,' and is frowned upon in all servers everywhere. Now, if you're a player wanting to perform PVP for these reasons, get a DM on board and watching you before performing any of these randomly-targeted acts, so they can actually see the roleplay happening beforehand.
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Eldok
Proven Member
Atonement is the way
Posts: 216
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Post by Eldok on Jan 13, 2019 15:41:03 GMT -5
I really get slowly annoyed by the sentence bluntly repeated here. I was told the same, you agree to pvp by logging in. But the fact that something is so, doesn’t mean it always has to stay so. Why not change the rule? Respecting each other’s taste and wishes is just a sign of maturity in my eyes. Still we all claim to be adults. There is no need to change a ‘’rule’’ that’s been applied and worked well for many years. FRC is a roleplaying server and PvP is a key element to roleplay.
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Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Jan 13, 2019 16:25:46 GMT -5
I really get slowly annoyed by the sentence bluntly repeated here. I was told the same, you agree to pvp by logging in. But the fact that something is so, doesn’t mean it always has to stay so. Why not change the rule? Respecting each other’s taste and wishes is just a sign of maturity in my eyes. Still we all claim to be adults. There is no need to change a ‘’rule’’ that’s been applied and worked well for many years. FRC is a roleplaying server and PvP is a key element to roleplay. so much yes. If you do not like conflict do not put your PC into a situation that would lead to PVp
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Post by malclave on Jan 13, 2019 17:48:56 GMT -5
There is no need to change a ‘’rule’’ that’s been applied and worked well for many years. FRC is a roleplaying server and PvP is a key element to roleplay. so much yes. If you do not like conflict do not put your PC into a situation that would lead to PVp There's only so much you can do in the Cormyrean Border Post.
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Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Jan 13, 2019 18:02:07 GMT -5
so much yes. If you do not like conflict do not put your PC into a situation that would lead to PVp There's only so much you can do in the Cormyrean Border Post. you have no clue how many times people verbally harassed Aris at the time a known killer. And he would give multiple warnings before acting.
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Post by hellscream123 on Jan 13, 2019 18:38:54 GMT -5
Blaming players who have given you no opportunities or fairness of play is not the fault of PvP existing on the sever. That's a fault a players treating it u fsirly in reguards towards others.
DMs are not omnipotent and NEED YOU TO TELL THEM WHEN SOMETHING UNFAIR HAPPENS.
Communication is the key and they are important players too, in all things. If you can't message a DM at the time. Tell a PA; one of us is almost always online.
All requests are taken seriously. But without request nothing can be solved.
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Post by Asgardian Grey Hawk on Jan 13, 2019 19:50:10 GMT -5
Blaming players who have given you no opportunities or fairness of play is not the fault of PvP existing on the sever. That's a fault a players treating it u fsirly in reguards towards others. DMs are not omnipotent and NEED YOU TO TELL THEM WHEN SOMETHING UNFAIR HAPPENS. Communication is the key and they are important players too, in all things. If you can't message a DM at the time. Tell a PA; one of us is almost always online. All requests are taken seriously. But without request nothing can be solved. to add screen shot everything. Pvp chat log
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 23:14:10 GMT -5
I'm not a particular fan of pvp and often how it's handled... BUT. U have to understand that in cormyr in this server having pvp available as options just makes sense from an ic perspective. Ppl unable to do anything about someone talking smack to some aggressive axe murderer in town just because that can with no consequences would be a nightmare. Having what equates to an ooc arena somewhere to meet at just so ppl can do pvp since they can't do it elsewhere is silly. Let's face it conflicts happen. If u read a book without conflict it would be fairly boring. If u are unwilling to do pvp back down. Don't make a character that is some heroic figure that won't back down in a pvp situation and will throw himself in the way of incoming pvp then complain that you got caught in it.
They are seeking to make as close to an ic experience as they can here. Pvp is part of that. (Again this coming from someone that doesn't even like pvp)
Edit to add: I have this image in my head of ppl trying to make others go to an arena who want to talk smack but won't go cause... Why would they?
Player 1: hey turds how u lame idiots doing today.
Player 2: gruush kills men for talking to him like this.
Player 1: sounds like your mom dropped u on your head
Player 2: grush challenges you and sees you in the arena!
Player 1: sorry I have a date with your mother tonight. //Haha can't fight me outside arena. Git gud son
And if u think this doesn't happen I've met a handful over the years that do just this and troll others because they can in situations where either pvp isn't possible or one guy won't kill another in front of a guard etc and so the man hides in town cause he wants to avoid the pvp he just made a possibility.
Ppl would take advantage of this with a pick pocket to. Just go around pick pocketing. You can't stop them. You can't pvp them. So they just keep going around pick pocketing over and over. (Let's be honest nobody on server who does pick pocketing even bothers to rp it or set to hostile like they are supposed to) There are so many more problems that would arise because the fact that Nothing has ic weight anymore without pvp to back it up.
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Post by deadbeatbert on Jan 14, 2019 2:43:33 GMT -5
PVP is managed best by those involved. If you want to PvP. Prep your reasons. Log your work. If you don't want to pvp. Back out. Retreat. Or surrender. Make the interaction about RP. I think the colored words are important, for those starting combat PvP and those trying to avoid combat PvP - and I say 'combat' because there are many forms of PvP, many of which will eventually lead to combat PvP. If you want to avoid combat PvP try to avoid other forms of PvP, like spreading rumors, politics or bad-mouthing others. For those initiating combat PvP try to give the other character a way out. Offer a viable solution for them. I may be fining them, demanding some action from them, or something else, but give them a way to avoid it. Sometimes it can't be avoided, but many times it can - especially if they're far lower level characters. For those having combat PvP threatened on them - for the sake of all things holy, PLEASE TAKE IT. Find a way to back out, retreat, or avoid it. There few things more annoying than a character that goes on and on until they get killed and then complains. Take the outs given to you if you don't want to combat PvP. Sometimes those outs are in playing sessions previous to the current one where combat is happening, pay attention. In my last two PvPs I tried to surrender after being raised. Both times my role play was ignored and I ate it anyways (A raised wizard is a/ defenceless without time to inivs and reprep. And b/ a raised wizard trying to roleplay is the easiest target in the game.). The sentiment is nice, but role play takes a definite back seat to an easy kill. When players and a DM only care about the kill the message is burned in. That character won't be trying it again, he's learned the hard way that there is no point trying to talk your way out of getting cut in half. Waste the slot every day, take the extend GS and use it when you need it and just gtfo, remember the faces and let the characters who dio die know who the assailant is. It may be a logical fallacy, but if you cannot discuss the PvP ahead of time and it is forced upon you (PC Ambush or DM event surprise) is it still a fallacy? I had immense fun in one event but not in the other. So does PvP trump the golden rule every time, or just when it is convenient? Some players can also be cornered into pvp they don't want by the players wanting pvp either through ambush tactics or one dimensional/corralling role play designed to lead to pvp as the only conclusion regardless of the outcome of it. imo - The spirit of the game and consideration for other people's enjoyment of it should always come first, as the golden rule states. By merit of the opinion of some of the players alone it doesn't because of the conflict with other rules. That leaves two options - 1. If you don't like it go somewhere else. 2. Accept that, per Hellscream's statement, when it comes to pvp the golden rule isn't always golden.
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Post by hellscream123 on Jan 14, 2019 8:33:01 GMT -5
The golden rule is subjective to acceptanve of structure to play. Have fun inside FRC. Following it's rules and design of the game overall.
Have fun to no one's expense should not be ignored "cuz i want to peh vey peh" again this is someone playing unfairly. Not the rules faulting under the agreement that PvP should happen here.
If you find nothing fun about pvp at all: part of the server isn't designed for that view. And sadly inturn your play style. Same way we're not getting +8 weapons or being crowned king. It's just flatly outside the structure proposed.
Clarifying given the reference to my statements on fun.//
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 9:03:13 GMT -5
As a relatively new player on FRC, I think it would be a good idea to give my perspective on this. I have had only a handful of PVP encounters on this server, and while I do not particularly enjoy PVP generally speaking, I accepted that PVP was an integral part of fantasy role play. I believed it was a natural thing, to have PVP, since you can't really expect a paladin to get along well with a super evil necromancer, can you?
So when I decided to make a loudmouth, arrogant and insulting character, I also accepted the fact that I was probably going to get into trouble with some players whose characters would not look kindly on that kind of behavior (even though I, as a player, do not particularly enjoy PVP). Needless to say, I ran afoul of a certain character and got in a fight. And you know what? It was actually a lot of fun.
One of the cardinal rules on FRC is having fun and being respectful. If you dislike PVP so much, which is OK since it can be sorta of stressful even within the confine of the rules, be sure to let the players know via Tell. I will say, however, that before doing that, it might be a good idea to let it happen and see how the story unfolds. Since this server is one of interactive storytelling, artificially influencing the "plot" can put a damper on the fun. Also, sometimes it's fun when something happens to your character that wasn't planned and isn't exactly ideal.
So basically: PVP is stressful and I can get why people don't like it, but you should let it happen and enjoy it, since it's part of a story. If you don't like it, let the player(s) know and avoid it.
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Andros
Old School
I only know that I know nothing
Posts: 437
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Post by Andros on Jan 14, 2019 10:25:33 GMT -5
The PVP encounters I've witnessed in town have all been very anti-immersion and Meta heavy. Aggressors (goor or evil) know their powerlevel and can take a good guess at their oppoent's simply from knowing how long they have been around. Add to that the fact that npcs won't react until after the fact (if at all) and they know it. 99% of those encounters were over trivial things (like name calling and such) that if there would be any kind of heavy penalty for murder in public would most likely not have happened as I bet the character wouldn't have risk it.
I'm not a fan of PVP and I don't think it adds anything positive to the server but I'm also a person that believes in live and let live so I'm fine with it so long as you take somewhere where it makes sense.
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Post by Lady Frost on Jan 14, 2019 11:05:42 GMT -5
...or being crowned king. It's just flatly outside the structure proposed. Um.. excuse me? Just you wait!
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Post by deadbeatbert on Jan 14, 2019 11:10:20 GMT -5
The golden rule is subjective to acceptanve of structure to play. Have fun inside FRC. Following it's rules and design of the game overall. Have fun to no one's expense should not be ignored "cuz i want to peh vey peh" again this is someone playing unfairly. Not the rules faulting under the agreement that PvP should happen here. If you find nothing fun about pvp at all: part of the server isn't designed for that view. And sadly inturn your play style. Same way we're not getting +8 weapons or being crowned king. It's just flatly outside the structure proposed. Clarifying given the reference to my statements on fun.// Example - Player B knows Aoi doesn't enjoy pvp but they are on the road in the Hullack and I'm a highwayman. There is a choice - kill their character and get a DM to give them 500gp because that's what their character does or do something else. As you can see from a lot of replies "you logged in and consented to PvP" is often the answer and it is what is accepted, perpetrated and the status quo. You said it yourself earlier - "if players want pvp, prepare and log your work." What you didn't add is adding ooc consideration for the other player and have the aggressor start that avenue of communication. This is my point. The rule has worked for years, so why change it? Because we can always be better. That's true of every rule in book. FRC is an institution and the culture has been set for well over a decade. But existence of the rule doesn't mean it can't be made better. Consideration for our fellow community members, their role play and enjoyment of the game isn't asking a lot, it is the golden rule, after all.
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Post by Lady Frost on Jan 14, 2019 11:28:30 GMT -5
The PVP encounters I've witnessed in town have all been very anti-immersion and Meta heavy. Aggressors (goor or evil) know their powerlevel and can take a good guess at their oppoent's simply from knowing how long they have been around. Add to that the fact that npcs won't react until after the fact (if at all) and they know it. 99% of those encounters were over trivial things (like name calling and such) that if there would be any kind of heavy penalty for murder in public would most likely not have happened as I bet the character wouldn't have risk it. I'm not a fan of PVP and I don't think it adds anything positive to the server but I'm also a person that believes in live and let live so I'm fine with it so long as you take somewhere where it makes sense. I see this brought up a lot and my response is, "So?" Taking advantage of someone less powerful than you is exactly how it happens in real life too. Occasionally you run across someone that's an ex MMA fighter and you get you a whooping yourself, but in most cases, people are going after other people that they know they can win against. If my character has been in Cormyr for years and knows who all the major players are and sees someone who's fighting kobolds that's a clear sign my character can probably pick on them and get away with it easily. That's not metagaming. EDIT: Getting your face beat in or even killed from talking trash happens all the time. Don't talk trash to someone that carries weapons and wields magic unless you can defend yourself. Seems simple. The NPC thing is more tricky, but even that isn't clearly metagaming. Some characters simply don't care how many NPCs or guards would be there. They'd punch your face in in the middle of a court proceeding and take whatever happens afterward as it comes. In these cases, it's probably best to make sure DM's are aware you're doing what you're doing, but if you don't or there aren't any there, then being open about what happened to DM can retroactively figure it out is important. But to my main point again, taking advantage of weaker characters through information your character would know IC, is completely reasonable. That said, ruining peoples fun by epics ganking characters that can't do anything about it is bad sportsmanship. There and plenty of 'enjoyable' ways for high levels to pick on low levels that don't require death. An example being way back in the day, a character of mine and her companion were ambushed by a bunch of DM's on their high-level characters while we were under 10 or so. We had zero chance. We even attacked them and they just stood there as we swung and missed over and over. They robbed us for some coins but it eventually turned into relationships between our characters as we then knew some powerful evil characters we could get to know. Being attacked by them actually gave us a huge in into the evil community. It was a great thing. Instead of people saying "This is dumb, I'm annoyed" try to think "How can I make this to my benefit and enjoyment". Maybe you'll even convince the aggressor it's fun and change their mind from what they had planned.
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Post by hellscream123 on Jan 14, 2019 18:07:06 GMT -5
The golden rule is subjective to acceptanve of structure to play. Have fun inside FRC. Following it's rules and design of the game overall. Have fun to no one's expense should not be ignored "cuz i want to peh vey peh" again this is someone playing unfairly. Not the rules faulting under the agreement that PvP should happen here. If you find nothing fun about pvp at all: part of the server isn't designed for that view. And sadly inturn your play style. Same way we're not getting +8 weapons or being crowned king. It's just flatly outside the structure proposed. Clarifying given the reference to my statements on fun.// Example - Player B knows Aoi doesn't enjoy pvp but they are on the road in the Hullack and I'm a highwayman. There is a choice - kill their character and get a DM to give them 500gp because that's what their character does or do something else. As you can see from a lot of replies "you logged in and consented to PvP" is often the answer and it is what is accepted, perpetrated and the status quo. You said it yourself earlier - "if players want pvp, prepare and log your work." What you didn't add is adding ooc consideration for the other player and have the aggressor start that avenue of communication. This is my point. The rule has worked for years, so why change it? Because we can always be better. That's true of every rule in book. FRC is an institution and the culture has been set for well over a decade. But existence of the rule doesn't mean it can't be made better. Consideration for our fellow community members, their role play and enjoyment of the game isn't asking a lot, it is the golden rule, after all. Thus is indeed fair. Consideration of others should always be paramount. But what adjustment to the rules will draw that forth? We evidently can't judt flatly remove pvp. Perhaps the better course wpild be reinforcement of the golden rule and considerations; "logging in is concent to pvp happebing. But if you well poorly about a scenario please request a bow out from the situation and story at hand"
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Post by Rane on Jan 14, 2019 21:59:24 GMT -5
This topic is a dead horse. A very dead horse.
It is not going to change. Pvp is an essential part of roleplay.
I know that some of you believe that fun loving muffin baking characters are the only way to roleplay, but that’s not true.
Some people are out here being mean in these streets, and fights are going to happen.
Now, if your fun loving character doesn’t like to fight, don’t roleplay them that way.
Don’t walk up to the evil red wizard and talk trash.
Mine for instance isn’t going to kill you. But the reason that assassin ganked you months later is because you decided to punch above your weight class.
And now you’re on the forum complaining that someone killed your character for “no reason”
Well it looks like someone remembered eh?
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I’m not aiming that at anyone in particular if you are wondering.
I’m simply making a point that roleplay happens.
If you don’t want to fight then don’t poke the bear.
Everyone chill and enjoy this place.
It’s been a blast to see it revitalized so far.
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