DM Q&A: Dwarven monk following dwarven gods

[Templar]

Only information I've found is below but my quest is this DM approved guidelines? I noticed the monk approved multiclass list leaves out most racial monk lists and focus's mostly on ones general humans can join. (yes there are a few hin only ones in there but no elvish, dwarvish, gnomish, orcish, deity based orders and the official Forgotten realms lore does include some orders of those races in its lore.


Searching found this in forgotten realms lore and on these forums but couldn't find an official approval, I did find a dm quoteing "The Tallest Dwarf" with this info so that seems like approval....

The only official Dwarven monks are these:
Clangeddin Silverbeard – Silver Monks (LG)

- This is a wholly dwarven order of monks. Many believe that their bodies are perfect weapons and eschew weapons altogether.
- May multiclass as Divine Champion, and or Dwarven Defender without restrictions.

[Munroe]

Mar 31, 2016 17:31:11 GMT -5 Templar said:

Only information I've found is below but my quest is this DM approved guidelines? I noticed the monk approved multiclass list leaves out most racial monk lists and focus's mostly on ones general humans can join. (yes there are a few hin only ones in there but no elvish, dwarvish, gnomish, orcish, deity based orders and the official Forgotten realms lore does include some orders of those races in its lore.


Searching found this in forgotten realms lore and on these forums but couldn't find an official approval, I did find a dm quoteing "The Tallest Dwarf" with this info so that seems like approval....

The only official Dwarven monks are these:
Clangeddin Silverbeard – Silver Monks (LG)

- This is a wholly dwarven order of monks. Many believe that their bodies are perfect weapons and eschew weapons altogether.
- May multiclass as Divine Champion, and or Dwarven Defender without restrictions.

I do not know what page you are citing. The order you are listing is not one of those listed for monk multiclassing on FRC.

The only monk orders that allow multiclassing on FRC on the ones posted in the Monk Orders Information thread. That post is quoted here for your convenience.

Other monk orders may exist in the setting, but they do not allow for multi-classing.

Elven culture and deities are generally Chaotic Good with some Chaotic Neutral. Monastic orders, which are inherently Lawful, do not fit well with elven tradition. As such, elven monks are uncommon, and very unlikely to worship the Seldarine. Such rare elven monks are more likely to belong to a monastic order created by another race, usually reflecting their worship of a non-elven deity or belief system.

By the same token, monastic orders do not mesh particularly well with orc culture. However, there are several Neutral Evil orc gods that do have monk worshipers. At a glance, the list below actually includes the Runeclaws order that has Luthic as a patron, and the Brotherhood of the Scarlet Scourge with Yurtrus as patron.

Oct 28, 2004 23:06:37 GMT -5 DM Richard (Retired) said:

Let me give credit where it is due. This is not my work but an old post by Darkblack on another forum.
His list had all the orders from the monk orders sidebar in Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, we have added orders that appear in Deity Do's and Don'ts, a WotC web enhancement for Faiths and Pantheons.

*Orders with an asterisk appear in Deity Do's and Don'ts, a web enhancement for Faiths and Pantheons. Other orders appear in Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. Note that Hin Fist is listed in both sources but only has deities listed in Deity Do's and Don'ts.

Monastic Orders
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Broken Ones (Good)
Deity: Ilmater
Multiclass options: May multiclass freely as clerics, divine champions (HotU) (others listed, but not an option).
Background Info: No great monasteries, though many monks of Ilmater stay in the area of the Dalelands, staying the temples of Ilmater.

Brotherhood of the Scarlet Scourge (Evil)*
Deity: Yurtrus
Multiclass options: May multiclass freely as clerics
Background Info: Monks of this strange orc order bleach their hands white and grow their nails very long. Before combat they dip their nails in a powder made of blood infected with the red ache (see Disease in the Dungeon Master's Guide), which lets them infect their opponents.

Brothers and Sisters of Pure Flame (Neutral)*
Deity: Kossuth
Multiclass options: May multiclass freely as clerics
Background Info: This order (and the other two orders of Kossuthan monks) is very insular and has a rigid tradition of study and fighting style, as well as behavioral taboos. These monks seek a balance between the purifying aspect and the destructive aspect of Kossuth's flame, and are the mediators of the three orders. Most of them learn Ignan to better communicate with fire elementals.

Children of the Passive Voice (Neutral)*
Deity: Oghma
Multiclass options: None. Children of the Passive Voice may not multiclass.
Background Info: These monks serve as guardians to libraries and abbys, and sometimes are sent to find lose stores of knowledge.

Dark Moon (Evil)
Deity: Shar
Multiclass options: May multiclass as sorcerers so long as their monk level and socerer level stay within two levels of each other.
Races: Human mostly, occaisionally half-orc, shade or drow.
Background Info: Maintain open temples only in lands ruled by eveil overlords. Otherwise temples are out in remote locations, back alleys or the underdark.

Disciples of the Changeless Face (Neutral)*
Deity: Grumbar
Multiclass options: May multiclass freely as fighters
Background Info: This stoic and spartan order is obsessed with preserving the knowledge of how things are (from laws to traditions to manners of speech) so that change can be detected and countered (which often involves beating into a pulp someone who disagrees).

Disciples of the Phoenix (Good)*
Deity: Kossuth
multiclass options: May multiclass freely as clerics
Background Info: This order (and the other two orders of Kossuthan monks) is very insular and has a rigid tradition of study and fighting style, as well as behavioral taboos. They are the most likely to espouse the purifying and redeeming aspects of their deity's element.

Disciples of Saint Sollars (Good)*
Deity: Ilmater
See Yellow Rose entry.

Disciples of the Salamander (Evil)*
Deity: Kossuth
Multiclass options: My multiclass freely as clerics
Background Info: This order (and the other two orders of Kossuthan monks) is very insular and has a rigid tradition of study and fighting style, as well as behavioral taboos. Some of these monks rival a Talosian fanatic's love of destructive fire, but most see it as a necessary tool for renewal in the world. Many of them bear brands of magical symbols on their bodies and decorate themselves with fiery tattoos.

Disciples of the White Rod (Evil)*
Deity: Loviatar
Multiclass options: May multiclass freely as clerics
Background Info: Monks of Loviatar prefer using their bare hands to inflict pain rather than using weapons. When forced to use weapons, they prefer nunchaku with white-bleached leather wrappings on the hilts.

Hin Fist (Neutral or Good)*
Deities: Arvoreen, Cyrrollalee, Sheela Peryroyl, Urogalan, Yondalla (non-exclusive)
Multiclass options: May multiclass freely as fighters, rogues and paladins (paladins of Yondalla only)
Races: Halfling, occasionally gnomes or dwarves study with Hin Fist.
Background Info: Lurien, a country inhabited almost entirely by halflings, is where the majority of monasteries are for the Hin Fist, though there are a few elsewhere as well.

Long Death (Evil):
Deity: None. Worship priciple of Death regardless of deity with Deat portfolio.
Multiclass options: May multiclass freely as fighters, assassins, and blackguards
Background Info: Strong order in Thay, not sanctioned by Red Wizards. Clerics of Kelemvor should hate this order, Velsharoon, wishes to use them somehow, and clerics of Myrkul see them as part of the previous lord of the dead's plans.

Old Order (Neutral, Sometimes Good, Rarely Evil)
Deity: None. They follow a deity who is long dead or never existed here.
Multiclass options: May multiclass as rogues, sorcerers, and shadowdancers, but must maintain more monk levels than the combination of the other classes.
Background Info: Never have huge monasteries but this order has spread widely throughout Faerun.

Order of the Iron Gauntlet (Evil)*
Deity: Bane
Multiclass options: May multiclass freely as assassins, fighters
Background Info: A small sect within the Zhentarim, these monks train in stealth and assassination. Currently they are few in number but their leader has been recruiting widely.

Runeclaws (Evil)*
Deity: Luthic
Multiclass options: May multiclass freely as clerics (another listed but not an option).
Background Info: Because in many orc tribes females are not allowed to touch weapons, unarmed combat has become a means for female worshipers of Luthic to defend themselves against raiders from other tribes. Some female orcs that are too old for childbirth (particularly older wives of the chief) become runeclaws to prove they are still useful to the tribe.

Serpent Guards (Evil)*
Deity: Tiamat
Multiclass options: May multiclass freely as assassins, fighters, rogues (another listed but not an option).
Background Info: These fanatics guard temples, serve as minions to dragons, hunt dragonslayers, and assassinate those who pry to closely into the activities of the church. They are active in Unther and have been known to attack Mulhorandi soldiers.

Shining Hand (Good or Neutral)
Deity: Azuth
Multiclass options: May multiclass as wizards as long as their monk level equals or exceeds their wizard level.
Background Info: Oldest order in Amn, though with magic use being cracked down upon, the Shining Hand has gone underground.

Sun Soul (Good or Neutral)
Deity: Lathander, Selune, or Sune
Multiclass options: May mutliclass as one other class as long as their monk level remains the highest level
Background Info: Most likely to have monasteries in outlying wilderness areas.

Yellow Rose (Good or Neutral)
Deity: Ilmater
Multiclass options: Multiclass freely as rangers, shadowdancers
Background Info: Also known as Disciples of Saint Sollars. Monastery fround in the Earthspur Mountains of Damara. Order known for loyalty, and destruction of enemies. Respected for Truth and Diplomacy, they also travel with Paladins of the Order of the Golden Cup, or other Ilmaterian Paladins.

Zealots of the Written Word (Good)*
Deity: Deneir
Multiclass Options: Multiclass freely as clerics
Background Info: These monks accompany clerics of Deneir on quests, assist in moneymaking efforts for the church, and are as fond of recording information as any devout worshiper of Deneir.

Edited 2008.03.17 by Munroe. Added orders from Deity Do's and Don'ts. Happy Saint Patrick's Day.

[Templar]

Source: www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/monks.htm is the only thing I can find. I'm not sure who Lee Nelson is and my own search fu (as some call it) has discovered only that he was a contributor to candlekeep and other then that I can't find more information.

Dwarves being a lawful society it would seem would be prone to a more monk like orders...

But a follow up question if that isn't allowed, Can a monk from one of the above orders (who is multiclassing) worship another diety then the one posted?

say a dwarf that is part of the:

Broken Ones (Good)
Deity: Ilmater
Multiclass options: May multiclass freely as clerics, divine champions (HotU) (others listed, but not an option).
Background Info: No great monasteries, though many monks of Ilmater stay in the area of the Dalelands, staying the temples of Ilmater.


But has cross classed into cleric or divine champion and is a cleric or divine champion of one of the dwarven deities?

[Munroe]

Apr 1, 2016 13:27:41 GMT -5 Templar said:

Source: www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/monks.htm is the only thing I can find. I'm not sure who Lee Nelson is and my own search fu (as some call it) has discovered only that he was a contributor to candlekeep and other then that I can't find more information.

None of the orders listed on that page are canon, and are not available on FRC.  That is fan material shared on Candlekeep.  Candlekeep.com contains a mix of both official and unofficial material, pulled across all versions of the setting.  The monk orders there are unofficial material.  (The Traveler's Notebooks section of Candlekeep is all unofficial and expanded information.)  You should be very careful about using Candlekeep.com as a lore source. 

Apr 1, 2016 13:27:41 GMT -5 Templar said:

Dwarves being a lawful society it would seem would be prone to a more monk like orders...

I'm not saying dwarves don't have monk orders.  I'm saying dwarves don't have any monk orders that have monk multi-classing exceptions.  Any dwarven monk orders expect their monks to be monks first and foremost.  Strictly speaking, a monk order that doesn't allow multi-classing is demanding that a character stick to a more rigid rule, and is, therefore, quite lawful. 

Apr 1, 2016 13:27:41 GMT -5 Templar said:

But a follow up question if that isn't allowed, Can a monk from one of the above orders (who is multiclassing) worship another diety then the one posted?

say a dwarf that is part of the:

Broken Ones (Good)
Deity: Ilmater
Multiclass options: May multiclass freely as clerics, divine champions (HotU) (others listed, but not an option).
Background Info: No great monasteries, though many monks of Ilmater stay in the area of the Dalelands, staying the temples of Ilmater.

But has cross classed into cleric or divine champion and is a cleric or divine champion of one of the dwarven deities?

A monk that belongs to one of the monk orders that lists deities should worship one of the deities listed for that order. Worshiping the deities of the order is part of being in the order.  

However, FRC does allow monks to take classes beyond monk and beyond their monk order's allowed classes if the monk is leaving the path of the monk.  You can, for instance, play a pure-classed dwarven monk that worships Moradin, or Clangeddin, or whoever.  Such a monk would not be a member of one of the monk orders that allows multi-classing.  That monk decides to become a cleric or a dwarven defender, or maybe a fighter, rogue, or whatever.  That character can then continue to progress as a cleric of Moradin or Clangeddin, etc., or as whatever qualifying second class, but the character has left their monk order and may no longer progress as a monk.  This is detailed in the quoted post below, and is also quoted from the Monk Orders Information thread. 

Dec 1, 2015 10:19:27 GMT -5 Munroe said:

It was pointed out that this information is not linked from the rules so I'm putting it here with the Monk Orders Information. It is directly related. (As it relates to monk class, I believe it originally appeared in DM Q&A forum.)

Nov 30, 2015 13:13:10 GMT -5 Munroe said:

FRC used to require that you maintain your monk order restriction even if you planned to no-longer advance as a monk. This was in part because we couldn't tell what the order of levels taken was, so couldn't check if you were still advancing as a monk. We have since learned how to check the order of levels taken, and can tell if someone is still taking monk or paladin levels after violating the multiclass rules of their monk or paladin order. It's not convenient, but it is possible to check.

If you belong to a monk order with restricted multiclassing, and plan to take no more levels in your monk class, you can leave the order to pursue other class options. IF YOU MULTICLASS OUTSIDE OF YOUR MONK ORDER, YOU CAN NO LONGER ADVANCE AS A MONK. When leaving a monk order, you are supposed to inform the DM Team so we can note your existing monk level.

---

What is said above is also true of paladins. If you belong to a paladin order with restricted multiclassing, and plan to take no more levels in your paladin class, you can leave the order to pursue other class options. IF YOU MULTICLASS OUTSIDE OF YOUR PALADIN ORDER, YOU CAN NO LONGER ADVANCE AS A PALADIN. When leaving a paladin order, you are supposed to inform the DM Team so we can note your existing paladin level.

There is additional clarification of this rule in the DM Q&A forums.
DM Q&A: Monk multiclassing (2014)
DM Q&A: Class: Monk multiclass into Arcane Archer (2013)
DM Q&A: Class: Monk PRC Restrictions (2009)


This FRC rule is based on the same rule that applies to paladins, originally expressed here:

Sept 9, 2008 16:17:46 GMT -5 Munroe said:

Hmm... Actually, we found out we can monitor paladins to see if they are multi-classing back into paladin after leaving the paladin class for another class so if you are playing a paladin that does not belong to one of the paladin orders that allows multi-classing freely and you wish for your paladin to leave the paladinhood for another class, please discuss it with the DM Team.

[Templar]

Apr 2, 2016 12:23:16 GMT -5 Munroe said:

Your answers and patience with answering the same question repeatedly are very much appreciated as we try to find different ways to hear you say "I'm sorry, no" in new and interesting ways.

Thank you Munroe!

I will have to rethink my character concept a little more

[Munroe]

You saw the part where I said you can front-load the monk levels though, right? Monks without a multi-classing order can still take other classes as long as they no longer take monk levels.

Think of it as "I'm sorry, no, but..."

It does still provide some potential options. Hopefully, you can find one that you like.