|
Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Jun 5, 2006 16:16:48 GMT -5
It has come to our attention... actually, we have known for a while but think it is time to possibly take action... that bags of holding and similar items tend to cause a bit of lag. Quite a bit of lag in reality so I put it to the community. Can you live without them?
|
|
|
Post by heimdall on Jun 5, 2006 16:18:46 GMT -5
I love the way these polls are phrased!
|
|
|
Post by Aodhan the Unusual on Jun 5, 2006 16:24:24 GMT -5
I will openly admit I tend to be selfish in this respect, but... We get rid of the bags and several of us with low strengths will be royally screwed over. I mean, even if I were to go through my stuff and not carry any traps, go to just one spare outfit and one set of armor (which screws me out of disguises), got rid of all the arrows I have, and all of the potions and scrolls, then I could be free to run around at full speed, unencumbered, no problem. But I'd be spending no time exploring because I wouldn't have enough strength to carry half of what I generally use. And for those who like to carry their gold around in bars or notes, that stacks up in weight as well.
That's my only problem with it. Other than that, if it decreases lag, cool, but another type of storage device would be needed in its stead.
|
|
|
Post by soulfien on Jun 5, 2006 16:28:51 GMT -5
actually, arrows don't weigh anything. Though I'll admit everything else does. My mage would have to have bull's strength cast always. Wait... he does anyway I carry magic bags, but I always keep them empty until I go exploring. Then they get filled up with loot. I try not to create much lag on a regular basis by always selling the loot and keeping them empty.
|
|
|
Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Jun 5, 2006 16:28:56 GMT -5
I will openly admit I tend to be selfish in this respect, but... We get rid of the bags and several of us with low strengths will be royally screwed over. I mean, even if I were to go through my stuff and not carry any traps, go to just one spare outfit and one set of armor (which screws me out of disguises), got rid of all the arrows I have, and all of the potions and scrolls, then I could be free to run around at full speed, unencumbered, no problem. But I'd be spending no time exploring because I wouldn't have enough strength to carry half of what I generally use. And for those who like to carry their gold around in bars or notes, that stacks up in weight as well. That's my only problem with it. Other than that, if it decreases lag, cool, but another type of storage device would be needed in its stead. I think persistent storage options could be looked into if we banned these items.
|
|
|
Post by ShadowCatJen on Jun 5, 2006 17:47:25 GMT -5
Dang it! That "selfish animal" part made me snicker and made my co-workers look at me funny. Anyway, even though I typically play low strength characters I will have to agree on banning the BoH. One, it will cut down on the amount of things a person can carry and thus, cause less of a drag on the server database (read: less lag) everytime a person looks into their inventory. Two, power looters (please note the difference) will not be able to just go out there and spawn camp the same areas over and over again for treasure until all their bags and inventory space is full. I understand the need for treasure, but does it really provide you with any sort of character development on an RP level? Long as standard magical bags will still be available (20% reduction ect) then it should be fine.
|
|
|
Post by DM Richard (Retired) on Jun 5, 2006 18:38:47 GMT -5
I could give up Bags of Holding if it reduces lag.
However it is the number of items a character carries that is the problem not the container itself. One trip into the Bramblewood Forest to the Ruins of Ar'ques Lalendril and back will fill your inventory with so many silk glands that your inventory will be as big a burden as having 4 times as many traps or 6 times as many suits of armor.
On the other hand people will sell silk glands as soon as they get to town and not hang onto them "just in case" or hoping for a better price at a different merchant. A full inventory may add to lag but holding onto things makes it a permanent addition of lag.
|
|
|
Post by gathera on Jun 5, 2006 18:55:10 GMT -5
By bags of holding I take it you mean all the weight reduction bags not just the 100% bag of holding one. Yes all the items contained are likely a prominent source of drag on the server. For myself it is the healing supplies that form the bulk of the weight load. Most of the weight reduction bags are full of potions and healing kits for the most part (mostly healing kits). Some gems, mementos and the odd magic items that I don't want to sell for nothing make up the rest. Do I really need so many healing kits and potions, perhaps not. I do carry up to 60 healing kits with one character, Vara. Conversely I have been on many adventures sessions where I go through the order of 40+ (the record is 55). I don't carry that order of potions but I have gone through a bundle of them at times when pressed in a close fight. Do I use the bags for carrying treasure items, yes at times particularly armour or hand axes. However that is really a very minor use, at least for me. If I place a suit of armour dropped as treasure in a bag I usually spend a good time removing other things stored. However I guess all those items are what contributes to the server-drag anyway. If you do get rid of the bags I still want the boxes around for ease of arrangement.
|
|
|
Post by MTGPackFoils on Jun 5, 2006 18:57:36 GMT -5
Time for me to chime in...and a lot of this is OOC info so anyone exploting this will get seriously thumped. ;D
My main characters have 2 bags each (the -20% kind), one for potions, one for loot (or armor). They also have wooden boxes for scrolls.
Amra may have an extra box for jewels (given to her by Jorinar in game).
Aeron has extra outfits that he wears to hide his identity.
If any of these are cuasing a problem -PLEASE- let me know.
Thanks
|
|
|
Post by Keetena on Jun 5, 2006 19:05:14 GMT -5
I confess I am a sellfish animal in this aspect - Keetena Silkhair has one bag of hold, but about otehr 10 containers, almost all filled with inumerous jewels - an aspect of her roleplay as servant of Sune that collects beauty, you have no idea how much gold I already gave to otehrs buying jewels too - my otehr pcs for example don't carry jewels - and as well, she has a good number of other itens, like clothes and such, but I understand the server is more important than any character I or anyone roleplay in special -
I have a suggestion boss if you permit me, we could limit the number of containers - bags, jewel cases, boxes - for example, each pc can have up to 3 any containers - only a suggestion, than we should have only inventory space to play with besides the reduced bags
I will wait you word about sir, but I'll do teh necesary to help as player, this is the minimum I can offer.
|
|
|
Post by MTGPackFoils on Jun 5, 2006 19:14:21 GMT -5
Instead of a BoH ban, why can't we cut back on the number of drops per monster? Especially wolves, ettercaps, skeletons, etc?
Do they all have to drop skins, caps, bones, etc? It seems like it.
Anyway...back to the talk about Justicar's bags. *snicker*
|
|
|
Post by Munroe on Jun 5, 2006 19:41:16 GMT -5
It is not Bags of Holding specifically that are the problem, it is all of the items (Bags of Holding, Magic Bags, Magic Pouches, Boxes, Jewel Cases, etc.) that allow characters to carry more items in their inventory. When characters log-on and when they open their inventory, every item in inventory is processed and the more items, the more processing. So A Bag of Holding with two full-plates causes significantly less lag then a non-magic box full of scrolls or gems.
That having been said, I don't play STR based characters either and reply on my magic pouches to be able to walk at normal speed. (I don't own any Bags of Holding yet.) Until some other means of persistant storage can be implimented, I am in favour of leaving the bags in or instituting a bags rationing program.
|
|
|
Post by DM Hawk on Jun 5, 2006 19:43:55 GMT -5
Hey gang, I voted, "Yes I can live without them" but that doesn't mean I'm unselfish. And anyone looking at my apartment just now can attest that I am an animal My first online NWN experience was on a server that allowed characters to have one bag of holding. The item could be won on a low level quest and the quest could be done once per character. Looking back now, it is hard to imagine, but somehow we got by. Heh. I'll accept almost any change for the good of the server and to combat the Lag Beast. I think there are a few things to consider. As was pointed out above, Ettercaps drop silk glands. Other monsters always drop things...wolves/bears and skins, certain skeletons and bones...these things add up in weight and take space. In the server I mentioned above we often left loot behind when we were maxed out of space or weight. Unfortunately this also contributes to lag. The way that server got around it was a fairly hefty clean up script that would zap discarded loot in an area shortly after it was vacated by PCs. Would something like this be an option for FRC? I'm particularly concerned about low strength PCs and discarded loot causing lag. While it isn't realistic for any character to skin every wolf, collect a thigh bone from every smashed skeleton, or snatch a tooth out of the mouth of every Bodak (Hey Guldar!), I believe the player base of FRC on the whole a consciencious bunch and we clean up after ourselves. Is there any middle ground we can find between packing up everything and leaving everything behind (both of which cause lag)? Maybe more trash cans? Persistant storage? If it can be worked out, it sounds great! Thanks for reading! PS - Any folks out there ever visit a lil city called Arkatuil?
|
|
|
Post by Keetena on Jun 5, 2006 19:47:01 GMT -5
Hmm..well... persistant storage causes more lag than bags, sadly I need say this.
|
|
|
Post by hexer on Jun 5, 2006 20:13:49 GMT -5
It is not Bags of Holding specifically that are the problem, it is all of the items (Bags of Holding, Magic Bags, Magic Pouches, Boxes, Jewel Cases, etc.) that allow characters to carry more items in their inventory. When characters log-on and when they open their inventory, every item in inventory is processed and the more items, the more processing. So A Bag of Holding with two full-plates causes significantly less lag then a non-magic box full of scrolls or gems. That having been said, I don't play STR based characters either and reply on my magic pouches to be able to walk at normal speed. (I don't own any Bags of Holding yet.) Until some other means of persistant storage can be implimented, I am in favour of leaving the bags in or instituting a bags rationing program. I agree. Mages would be out of luck, as well as most rogues or dex-based fighters... Rangers... Anyways, I agree, if we can find another means, I'm all for it, but until then, removing the BoH and other container items would severely cripple quite a few people. I'm selfish. :/
|
|
|
Post by olwentheold on Jun 5, 2006 21:24:25 GMT -5
Hmm..well... persistant storage causes more lag than bags, sadly I need say this. Where did you get your source from, Keetena? From what I've read, it's quite the opposite and solution to solving the container issue - but I could be wrong.
|
|
|
Post by Keetena on Jun 5, 2006 21:43:46 GMT -5
Hmm..well... persistant storage causes more lag than bags, sadly I need say this. Where did you get your source from, Keetena? From what I've read, it's quite the opposite and solution to solving the container issue - but I could be wrong. Well... at least I heard this in other foruns of many servers I played before or still play about solutions to teh same matter - with persistant storage people start keep things that are even more unecessary than carry in iventory, and besides are more data to keep to ever single character we do, and apparently script this is more lag - but I know nothing about script, so I cannot affirm this without fall in lie - the solution I suggested I really saw functioning very well in a previous server - they limited bags to 3, and the result was truly awesome. Still I cannot affirm this will be better, only suggested in other hand I once payed in a server without bags with persistant store and few players and was really lagg, but in this case I do think the persistance wasn't teh source of trouble
|
|
|
Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Jun 5, 2006 22:00:19 GMT -5
Hmm..well... persistant storage causes more lag than bags, sadly I need say this. It truly depends upon the system. You are generally correct, but not totally correct, so to speak... I certainly wouldn't want to replace one issue with another, eh?
|
|
|
Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Jun 5, 2006 22:01:49 GMT -5
I'm not an animal... I'm a selfish prick!
"Yep, there certainly is one prick in this room." - Larry David
I could prolly get by with being able to carry the stuff in my inventory without too much of a problem, but as soon as i start to pick stuff off the ground, i am going to be moving as slow as molasses. So yeah...
|
|
|
Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Jun 5, 2006 22:12:07 GMT -5
OK, so mages would be out of luck? What about the rest of the server (IE EVERYONE ELSE) being out of luck? OK, I just started that old mages vs. everyone else firestorm, but I still think the argument is slanted. I think every class gets it's advantages and such, I still think mages shouldn't be able to carry 120 potions and 50 scrolls and 10 staves, etc to a fight. I don't think any class should, but especially weakly old bastards with undead fetishes. ;D I digress and apologize for seemingly taking a side. It goes double for fighter classes carrying two sets of armor though... that's just stupid. So, persistent storage... here we go!
|
|
Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 703
|
Post by Manshin on Jun 5, 2006 22:33:58 GMT -5
I love the idea of bags of holding being gone, except for one. I already think you can carry waaaaaaaaay to much crap in NWN. But, I do think that everyone should get at least 1 bag. I never carry more than one anyway. A bag of holding for wizards and other physically weak cahracters to be able to carry heavy crap in. Beyond that, your physical strength should be a problem for your inventory.
|
|
|
Post by DM Grizwald on Jun 5, 2006 22:57:30 GMT -5
guess its inventory clear out time again...i have loads of junk i dont need
|
|
|
Post by Munroe on Jun 6, 2006 0:50:56 GMT -5
One of my characters has one bag of 20% weight reduction and the other character has 3 bags of 20% weight reduction. Both of them have their inventory within 20 lbs of capacity just leaving town. The one with one bag has 18 lbs free, and the one with three bags generally has 2 lbs to 5 lbs free. (Her STR is lower than his by one point because he as a Belt of Fury and she can carry 10 lbs less.) I consider my inventory fairly clean. I even sold the bastardsword my guy was carrying to gain the 10 lbs of free space and that's why he has 18 lbs free these days instead of 8.
Healing kits weigh 0.5 lb each, so a stack of 10 is 5 lbs.
My experience with persistant storage has not been bad at all. The advantage of it is that items are stored in the server database, not in the character inventory, so the only time they are being processed is when characters are specifically firing the event to open the persistant storage chest. With the system I am familiar with, each character got one Magic Bag. Each bag could hold 50 items. Stacks count as a single item per stack, so 99 arrows would be 1 item. There was no size limit on the items, nor weight limit, only an item number limit. The bags were keyed to character name so even if a character happened to have ...say.... two of them.... they both fired the same script and opened the same storage space with the same fifty items. If a bag got stolen, the bandit would open it and find his fifty items instead of his mark's fifty items. (This is rather true to how Bags of Holding should work. A character reaches in and specifies what he wishes to take out and it is drawn to his/her hand. If you don't know what's in one, you can't draw it out.) Anyway... That's one way I might prefer to see it handled.
|
|
|
Post by Aodhan the Unusual on Jun 6, 2006 2:01:56 GMT -5
OK, so mages would be out of luck? Not just the mages, man. Us rogues have carrying problems too and we rely on having to carry around traps, disguises, and maybe a spare weapon or two FOR the disguises.
|
|
|
Post by davrosmandrake on Jun 6, 2006 4:41:57 GMT -5
I digress and apologize for seemingly taking a side. It goes double for fighter classes carrying two sets of armor though... that's just stupid. Ok now I can feel bad cos I am carrying around two sets of armour with Lyn...why...well a chain mail bikini is such a cool item although inpratical for adventuring ;D How ever I also lug around two chests full of bits and bobs to make weapons and armour with so she can make it on demand. All of this stuff gets taken everywhere because that is the way it works, although in my mind its stuff that is left in her room/lodging. So is it not possible for there to be a persistant storage that is only accesable from an Inn and only after the character has paid 'some' gold for the privilage to reflect the renting of a room. Obviously this item would have 100% weight reduction. Or would this just be compounding the problem?
|
|
|
Post by Dachshund on Jun 6, 2006 6:02:30 GMT -5
With the system I am familiar with, each character got one Magic Bag. Each bag could hold 50 items. Stacks count as a single item per stack, so 99 arrows would be 1 item. There was no size limit on the items, nor weight limit, only an item number limit. The bags were keyed to character name so even if a character happened to have ...say.... two of them.... they both fired the same script and opened the same storage space with the same fifty items. If a bag got stolen, the bandit would open it and find his fifty items instead of his mark's fifty items. (This is rather true to how Bags of Holding should work. A character reaches in and specifies what he wishes to take out and it is drawn to his/her hand. If you don't know what's in one, you can't draw it out.) Anyway... That's one way I might prefer to see it handled. That sounds like a plan. At least let everyone have one magic bag or bag of holding. If it helps with the lag, I'll gladly give mine away. In fact, I'm gonna get rid of about half of them today when I log on.
|
|
|
Post by Eons of Recluse on Jun 6, 2006 8:38:26 GMT -5
Well I do find a small IC problem with that persistant storage. If everyone uses the same chest then it's not really a good idea is it? I mean in order to keep things logical IC everyone should have their own chest in their own place. At least that's what I think. And my char Cortiana has one Bag of Holding and some other containers so I can keep things organised. Even if they were taken away I'd still RP her having it since there is no other logical way to carry that much stuff on you
|
|
racestark
Proven Member
R-E-A-D-A-B-O-Okay!
Posts: 241
|
Post by racestark on Jun 6, 2006 9:12:49 GMT -5
If it gets my ping down to the point where I can log in without crashing the server, I'm all for it. I've been trying to log for the past week and a half, sitting there, waiting for the ping to go down, getting very lonely.
So I guess I'm a selfish animal disguising his reasons as for the better of the community as a whole.
|
|
|
Post by Quadhund/Greenhouse on Jun 6, 2006 9:18:21 GMT -5
Give me a 1 bag of holding -100% and persistant storage and then you've got my vote. I need at least 1 bag of holding to carry that full plate armor to the nearest container to drop it in.
|
|
|
Post by moulinous on Jun 6, 2006 11:19:04 GMT -5
i voted to rid us of them and if I can live without them, anyone can. Everyone knows i play a merchant and hafta have quite a few bags to get by...but if it slows the lag beast then i am all for it. It would in realty promote more group play as well as not many of us can carry a ton of crap...the only thing i ask is there a way to make things like bones, glands, pelts...ie cruddy drops...stackable?
|
|