DM Q&A: Setting: Kara-Turan gods in Faerun/FRC?

[Munroe]

Feb 20, 2014 17:24:41 GMT -5 @wingfree said:

Are there any? Why not?

The short answer is that the Kara-Turan gods have no power or influence in Faerun, and aren't available to divine spellcasters on FRC. But here's some more information:

From Player's Guide to Faerun, 164:

Other planes
The cosmology detailed in this chapter (and originally presented in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting) accounts for the homes of the deities of the Faerunian pantheon, various nonhuman pantheons (dragon, giant, goblinoid, orc, drow, dwarven, elven, gnome, and halfling), and the Mulhorandi panthon. Toril is also home to a number of additional faiths, and the gods of those faiths live in additional planes connected to Toril. Little is known in Faerun about most of these planes, and the exact nature of their connection to Faerun is rather mysterious.

Toril actually connects to several different Astral Planes, each one linking Toril's Material Plane to the outer-plane homes of a different group of deities. These Astral Planes are based on the geographical areas of control help by the different pantheons. The Astral Plane known to characters in Faerun leads to the planes of the Faerunian pantheon, as well as the nonhuman pantheons (whose geographical area of control overlaps that of the Faerunian deities) and the Mulhorandi pantheon. Characters in other areas can enter different Astral Planes with links to the Outer Planes inhabited by their own deities. Ao is thought to supervise and separate Astral Planes just as he adjudicates conflicts between the pantheons.

From Player's Guide to Faerun, 165:

The Spirit World
The Spirit World described in the Appendix in Manual of the Planes is coexistent with and coterminous to the Material Plane, but only in Kara-Tur. Each deity of Kara-Tur's Celestial Bureaucracy has a small realm attached to the Spirit World. Because it is a transitive plane, the Spirit World replaces the Astral Plane in Kara-Tur.

As detailed above, the Spirit World replaces the Astral Plane, but only around Kara-Tur. It doesn't functionally exist in Faerun. The below is the available information on the Spirit World from Manual of the Planes. Note that where its information conflicts with Player's Guide to Faerun, Player's Guide to Faerun is the relevant Forgotten Realms source.

From Manual of the Planes, page 206:

The Spirit World is a realm brought into sharp focus. Colors are brighter, sounds more distinct, and every sense is more keenly aware of its surroundings. Some of its denizens say that the Material Plane is just a pale reflection of the Spirit World's vibrancy. It is a dimension of ultimates.

The Spirit World is pan of a cosmology radically different from the Great Wheel. In this cosmology, there are spirits for everything, from the greatest mountain to the smallest flower, as well as spirits of ancestors and objects long passed into history. The Spirit World is the plane where the spirits of all things, living and unliving, make their homes.

The Spirit World is a Transitive Plane that replaces the Astral Plane of the D&D cosmology. Unlike that plane, the Spirit World is both coexistent with and coterminous to the Material Plane, matching its terrain. A valley in the Spirit World corresponds to a valley on the Material Plane, and where there is a waterfall in one, there is a waterfall in the other. In the case of the Spirit World, however, the waterfall is higher, its water more pure, and its sound more pleasing than that of its equivalent on the Material Plane. The Spirit World's waterfall would likely be the home of a water elemental that serves as the spirit of the waterfall.

Living creatures and their structures, from beaver dams to palaces, do not necessarily have direct analogs. However, where a citadel stands on the Material Plane, a similar citadel (though greater and stronger) may stand in the Spirit World, occupied by the spirits of revered ancestors of the Material Plane citadel's ruler.

Spirit World Traits
The Spirit World has the following traits:

• Normal Gravity.
• Timeless: In the Spirit World, creatures do not hunger, age, or thirst. Days and nights pass within the Spirit World as they do on the Material Plane. However, the nights are ebony black and set with brilliant stars, while great clouds arching across a sky of purest blue dominate the days.
• Infinite Size: Unless the Material Plane has the finite size trait, in which case the Spirit World does too.
• Alterable Morphic: Changing things in the Spirit World does not directly affect the Material Plane, and changes on the Material Plane aren't necessarily reflected in the Spirit World right away.
• No Elemental or Energy Traits: However, particular locations within the plane may have those traits. A smith's forge on the Material Plane, for example may have an equivalent in the Spirit World with the fire-dominant trait.
• Mildly Neutral-Aligned: Specific locations may have other alignments; the Spirit World equivalent of a haunted graveyard might be mildly evil-aligned, for example.
• Enhanced Magic: All divine spells are extended and empowered on the Spirit World. Arcane magic, which comes from knowledge as opposed to proper veneration, is unaffected.

Spirit World Links
The Spirit World is coexistent with the Material Plane, and movement on one is equal to movement on the other. A traveler who enters the Spirit World, walks three miles north, and then returns to the Material Plane is three miles north of the walk's starting point.

Travelers reach the Spirit World through the Ethereal Plane, which forms a border region between the Material plane and the Spirit World. A character on the Ethereal Plane can see onto both the Material Plane and the Spirit World: the Material Plane clearly and the Spirit World as a faint echo. By concentrating on the echo, a traveler can move to the far side of the Ethereal Plane and enter the Spirit World.

Because the Spirit World replaces the Astral Plane, spells that allow access to the Astral Plane use the Spirit World instead.

The Plane of Shadow does not connect to the Spirit World, so spells that use the Plane of Shadow do not function in the Spirit World.

The Spirit World leads to other planes, in particular the homes of whatever great powers oversee the operation of the known universe. A traveler through the Spirit World finds portals to the great palaces of these deities, as well as unique heavens and hells. A traveler seeking the Duke of Storms, for example, would find a portal to his palace occupying the same general location as storm-wracked peaks on the Material Plane.

Spirit World Inhabitants
The Spirit World is home to a variety of creatures, including fey, elementals, undead, outsiders, and dragons. Those with access to the plane shift spell visit the Material Plane under their own power, and spellcasters use summoning spells to bring other Spirit World creatures to the Material Plane. Still other Spirit World creatures find natural portals between the planes.

Features of the Spirit World
Settled areas of the Material Plane are particularly dangerous in the Spirit World, because these places are where the spirits of ancestors dwell. These spirits are extremely protective of their descendants; an assassin who pops into the Spirit World to infiltrate a local duke's reception hall will be confronted by one or more ghosts of the duke's predecessors. This is one reason that rulers live in the same palace for generations: They enjoy the protection of their ancestors.

As hinted at in Player's Guide to Faerun, the worship of Kara-Tur is the pantheon of the Celestial Bureaucracy. I'm not aware of details on the Celestial Bureaucracy existing in 3.x D&D, as Kara-Tur details weren't published for 3.x. I don't have the AD&D materials on Kara-Tur (The "Kara-Tur Boxed Set") so my knowledge of the Celestial Bureaucracy ends here. I did check Deities and Demigods, but I don't see mention of the Celestial Bureaucracy in it.

If any players have any details they'd like to share about the Celestial Bureaucracy, please PM me.

I think that's about all I've got for now.

[Munroe]

I got a PM from Miss Kitty Fantastico (who plays Kiyohime) with some more information on Kara-Turan deities:

Feb 20, 2014 23:41:11 GMT -5 Kiyohime 🐍 said:

Hey, Munroe. There is actually more than one faith in Kara-tur most notably the Way of Enlightenment which originated in Shou Lung. The other lands (Kozakura, Wa, Plain of Horses) have also particular faiths, according to the boxed set. I don't know much about most of the lands, save for Shou Lung and Kozakura.

There is a lot of material concerning faiths and gods and it is really confusing, most of the time. The book does mention some gods (The Nine Immortals from the Celestial Bureaucracy, for example) and one god from Kozakura.

It might be easier ask the player from where in Kara-tur the char actually comes from and start from there.

For example, these are the gods worshiped in Shou Lung/T'u Lung.




Also, the FR Wiki does a good job in covering the cannon stuff from both Shou Lung and Kozakura. Here are the links:

forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Kozakura

forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Shou_Lung

I hope it helps.

[Munroe]

Feb 21, 2014 20:47:38 GMT -5 @wingfree said:

This is all good information, I do have access to the oriental adventures which holds this information, however because of the way FRC holds its gods and goddesses, we can't technically play a cleric from any of the celestial Bureaucracy. am i correct ? WE have to pick a FRC god and take the domains respective to that diety, as I recall, correct ?

As I already said at the start of my first reply.

Feb 20, 2014 23:09:09 GMT -5 Munroe said:

Feb 20, 2014 17:24:41 GMT -5 @wingfree said:

Are there any? Why not?

The short answer is that the Kara-Turan gods have no power or influence in Faerun, and aren't available to divine spellcasters on FRC.

The Kara-Turan gods have no sway in the continent of Faerun. Their cosmology (The Spirit World) doesn't even connect to Faerun.

So playing a divine class with a Kara-Turan god as a patron is not possible.

Divine characters on FRC must select a Power* that has sway in Faerun and have appropriate domains for that Power.

*I use the word "Power" because, while only deities may be chosen without DM-approval, there have been clerics of fiends on FRC in the past. Worship of a non-deity by a divine class requires specific DM approval.

[Munroe]

Feb 22, 2014 13:48:30 GMT -5 @wingfree said:

Then all the information, as far as playing on FRC is pointless and irrelevent.
thanks for the answers
I appreciate it

It's certainly still useful for characters that are not playing a divine class. There's no option for the Kara-Turan pantheons on the deity selector, but there's no mechanical difference from playing a Faithless.