Manshin
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Post by Manshin on Feb 28, 2013 17:21:44 GMT -5
Please understand: According to the source, your max press (overhead press, not bench press) is the same as your max load.
That means by looking at your maximum load on your inventory sheet, you know exactly how much weight you can lift over your head. This is not something that is subjective here. Its a hard fast rule in the source. I provided the chart on the first page of this topic. Keep in mind, a max press is the maximum weight you can lift over your head 1 time. Your max load is the maximum amount you can carry around in your travels without being completely wiped out by it.
If you've got an 18 str. You can press 300 lbs over your head. There are very few humans on earth who can do this. I can't imagine its particularly common in Faerun either without magical assistance. Those who can, are going to have serious muscles.
If you can do that without magical assitance, than your body will not look far off of the pictures I posted. Maybe taller or shorter, a bit leaner or a bit more bukly, but not far off. Wether they are massive and chunky like an ironman competitor, or ripped without an ounce of fat like a bodybuilder is up to you... but if you mean to be true to your scores, you're going to be stacked, period.
I can't stop anyone from RPing whatever they want, but it does seem a bit unfair to not RP what you take, esspecially when those of us who have 8s have to RP those as they are. Abby gets winded going up hills, trips over everything & can't catch or throw for beans, and is a complete weakling whom I RP as painfully thin to the point of unhealthy looking.
Naturally I can see some wiggle room given the setting and the fact that the weight is "generalized." You could RP being stronger in the legs than the arms for example (and within reason). For instance you might tell people you can't lift more than 250, but can squat more than your score might normally allow.
In summery, it would be somewhat unfair to people who take 8 int have to speak like morons, be illterate, or just generally act dumb in order to comply with server rules, when someone with a natural 18 str RPs their female PC as a delicate flower. I have no idea if anyone does that, just throwing the point out there.
Note: Im only speaking of humans. demi-humans are anyone's guess.
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Post by breadandcircuses on Feb 28, 2013 17:37:19 GMT -5
I can definitely agree with that sentiment. It's something I've noticed on many RP servers; lower stats are usually much more harshly enforced then higher stats.
Like, if you have 8 int you better be a drooling moron, OR ELSE, type situation, but it doesn't seem to extend to higher stats.
though to be fair the number of +10's and up on the server is absolutely ridiculus and would be impossible to RP since a single one of them could by themselves wipe out a small town.
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Blazingshadowz
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Post by Blazingshadowz on Feb 28, 2013 17:47:56 GMT -5
I can definitely agree with that sentiment. It's something I've noticed on many RP servers; lower stats are usually much more harshly enforced then higher stats. Like, if you have 8 int you better be a drooling moron, OR ELSE, type situation, but it doesn't seem to extend to higher stats. I think the reason this is strongly inforced, is because some people take out from how good their build could be to be a little more IC with their stats, and instead of having 8 int and being an dumb barbarian, they wanted to be a 12 int barbarian that isn't a complete idiot or the likes. So it's really like a slap to the face to the people trying to RP their stats accordingly when they ignore that the stats are supposed to stand for something and should be represented properly. Atleast that's how I see it and how i've always seen it.
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Post by Syd's Blue Sky on Feb 28, 2013 17:48:35 GMT -5
I can definitely agree with that sentiment. It's something I've noticed on many RP servers; lower stats are usually much more harshly enforced then higher stats. Like, if you have 8 int you better be a drooling moron, OR ELSE, type situation, but it doesn't seem to extend to higher stats. though to be fair the number of +10's and up on the server is absolutely ridiculus and would be impossible to RP since a single one of them could by themselves wipe out a small town. This is a mid-high magic server. It would be ridiculous on a server with a level cap of 6, sure. But on a server with lvl 30+ characters it's not that bizarre at all.
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Manshin
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Post by Manshin on Feb 28, 2013 18:10:51 GMT -5
Its unfair to those with a high int for someone RPing their 8 int as if they were an articulate, intelligent strategist
Similarly it is also unfair to RP your 18 natural strengthed female as a delicate willow branch when there are those who take scores which might actually reflect this. Its unfair to RP your 8 charisma clubberella as a beauty pagent winner when there are those who actually sacrifice combat ability for charisma.
This is no differant than RPing that you are a master tumbler or a clever liar and stealth artist when you don't have any ranks in those skills. The differance is, there are no hard mechanics to keep it real. Our character sheets, and the scores which are on them are what keep it real. Those numbers on your sheet "are" your character. Its your job to turn them from numbers into a personality with depth. Otherwise, everyone would be fearless, gorgeous, immune to pain and good at everything.
I think if we all worked under the philosophy of "take what you want, but RP what you take" you might see less people min/maxing their warriors to get crushing strength for maximum battle efficiency when they were viewed as hulking weight-lifters?
edit: In some ways, this is why I prefer that Charisma was pretty useless for combat in AD&D. It made charisma rare. Now there are classes whose battle prowess is tied to charisma, and so you see super-high charisma which isn't always RPed and sort of takes the exceptionalism out of those who sacrifice combat ability for charisma.
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Post by FORSETIS on Feb 28, 2013 18:13:14 GMT -5
Its unfair to those with a high int for someone RPing their 8 int as if they were an articulate, intelligent strategist Similarly it is also unfair to RP your 18 natural strengthed female as a delicate willow branch when there are those who take scores which might actually reflect this. Its unfair to RP your 8 charisma clubberella as a beauty pagent winner when there are those who actually sacrifice combat ability for charisma. This is no differant than RPing that you are a master tumbler or a clever liar and stealth artist when you don't have any ranks in those skills. The differance is, there are no hard mechanics to keep it real. Our character sheets, and the scores which are on them are what keep us real as characters. Otherwise, everyone would be fearless, immune to pain and good at everything. I think if we all worked under the philosophy of "take what you want, but RP what you take" you might see less people min/maxing their warriors to get crushing strength for maximum battle efficiency when they were viewed as hulking weight-lifters? +1
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Blazingshadowz
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Post by Blazingshadowz on Feb 28, 2013 18:21:15 GMT -5
Its unfair to those with a high int for someone RPing their 8 int as if they were an articulate, intelligent strategist Similarly it is also unfair to RP your 18 natural strengthed female as a delicate willow branch when there are those who take scores which might actually reflect this. Its unfair to RP your 8 charisma clubberella as a beauty pagent winner when there are those who actually sacrifice combat ability for charisma. This is no differant than RPing that you are a master tumbler or a clever liar and stealth artist when you don't have any ranks in those skills. The differance is, there are no hard mechanics to keep it real. Our character sheets, and the scores which are on them are what keep it real. Those numbers on your sheet "are" your character. Its your job to turn them from numbers into a personality with depth. Otherwise, everyone would be fearless, gorgeous, immune to pain and good at everything. I think if we all worked under the philosophy of "take what you want, but RP what you take" you might see less people min/maxing their warriors to get crushing strength for maximum battle efficiency when they were viewed as hulking weight-lifters? edit: In some ways, this is why I prefer that Charisma was pretty useless for combat in AD&D. It made charisma rare. Now there are classes whose battle prowess is tied to charisma, and so you see super-high charisma which isn't always RPed and sort of takes the exceptionalism out of those who sacrifice combat ability for charisma. +1!!!
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Post by FORSETIS on Feb 28, 2013 19:04:40 GMT -5
I can definitely agree with that sentiment. It's something I've noticed on many RP servers; lower stats are usually much more harshly enforced then higher stats. Like, if you have 8 int you better be a drooling moron, OR ELSE, type situation, but it doesn't seem to extend to higher stats. though to be fair the number of +10's and up on the server is absolutely ridiculus and would be impossible to RP since a single one of them could by themselves wipe out a small town. This is a mid-high magic server. It would be ridiculous on a server with a level cap of 6, sure. But on a server with lvl 30+ characters it's not that bizarre at all. I think openly stating "Lvl 30+ characters" Is kinda not fair, there are like 5? Less so that play.
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Post by Razgriz on Feb 28, 2013 19:16:18 GMT -5
Its unfair to those with a high int for someone RPing their 8 int as if they were an articulate, intelligent strategist Similarly it is also unfair to RP your 18 natural strengthed female as a delicate willow branch when there are those who take scores which might actually reflect this. Its unfair to RP your 8 charisma clubberella as a beauty pagent winner when there are those who actually sacrifice combat ability for charisma. This is no differant than RPing that you are a master tumbler or a clever liar and stealth artist when you don't have any ranks in those skills. The differance is, there are no hard mechanics to keep it real. Our character sheets, and the scores which are on them are what keep it real. Those numbers on your sheet "are" your character. Its your job to turn them from numbers into a personality with depth. Otherwise, everyone would be fearless, gorgeous, immune to pain and good at everything. I think if we all worked under the philosophy of "take what you want, but RP what you take" you might see less people min/maxing their warriors to get crushing strength for maximum battle efficiency when they were viewed as hulking weight-lifters? edit: In some ways, this is why I prefer that Charisma was pretty useless for combat in AD&D. It made charisma rare. Now there are classes whose battle prowess is tied to charisma, and so you see super-high charisma which isn't always RPed and sort of takes the exceptionalism out of those who sacrifice combat ability for charisma. +1. Oh yes!
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Post by minsafedistance on Feb 28, 2013 20:13:46 GMT -5
8 int is not a drooling moron, its just someone who is slow 10 int is enough to understand and use minor spells with training
8 cha is not horrible to look at and socially ignored, its just lower than average
Sure all 8s are 'worse' than 10 And its as low as we can go unless you have a racial penalty
And sure 18 >> 8, but lets not force RP on people with scores of 8.
Sure some depictions are not appropriate, but that is different than forcing.
8 to 12 is the average 'range'
Its as much an 'issue' at the high end.
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abby
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Post by abby on Feb 28, 2013 20:31:12 GMT -5
Here's the chart for anyone interested. www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingCapacity.htmStr, unlike other ability scores is something we can actually gauge with a high degree of accuracy how it relates to real examples. Those who can grab and use other human beings as nunchucks have big muscles. Im not sure on what level this can possibly be argued with. The reason the staff makes rules for people sporting 8s in their ability score list, is because if they don't people won't RP them as dump states they choose in order to make combat machines without reguard to their other scores. I would argue that it should be considered very good and responsible to RP all your stats as well as you are able, good and bad... including the pros and cons that come with each.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2013 21:05:07 GMT -5
To Manshin, about the strength score and huge muscles:
I think it's important to remember that NWN just totally runs away with numbers. The numbers we see on the inventory sheet for what you can carry can go from mediocre to astronomical, if one spends their stat points from level to level on strength. It represents a gain in strength that no person would ever be able to make from simple training. So ... I think a little leeway and grace with the numbers is in order on some of the finer points of the discussion. I agree totally with the points about people RP-ing their stats for what they are. But ... I think making every character into a musclebound blockhead if their strength goes over 18 is taking the idea a little far, in the context of how the game works. In real life, a person with a strength of 14 would be noticeably weaker than one with a 14.2. In NWN, the adjustment doesn't even go up until you're raised two full stat points.
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Post by arisnorman1 on Feb 28, 2013 22:11:18 GMT -5
again i will say. how bad is it to take the time out of your char and rp the stat. i mean just rp slightly toned muscles or well toned muscles. come on now. if you ignore this honestly you are kinda sorta metagaming. this is a rp server yes so if magical items or spells give you that stat then it is magical not gained. but throught out lvling the stat point is there gain. so how hard is it to follow that and rp it out?
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Post by Pedantry INC on Feb 28, 2013 22:17:40 GMT -5
Allow me to say once more, how bad is it to take the time to RP the stats of your character? I mean just RP slightly toned muslces or well tones muscles. Come on now, if you ignore this you're kind of metagaming. This is an RP server so. Yes, if magical items or spells give you that stat then it is magical, and not gained, however if you gain the stat through leveling there is a gain. How hard is it to follow that and RP it out? It is difficult because people interpret things differently. Despite each of us valuing our own opinions about how these things work, we have no right to say our way is better than the ways of another. Thusly, it's not so much that it's -difficult- in so far as it's simply -different- for various people. This discussion is one of those tail chasers where things are being repeated again and again to little effect. I would suggest that no one hold their breath on an outcome favorable to any specific set of opinions or one general point of view. To be honest though? Rping my str stat? My character is armored most of the time. You'll see her strength rped when I emote *Hefts her horde of packs, somehow managing to not only shoulder them with ease, but also distribute them in a manner that doesn't screw her over in combat.* I couldn't care less about my Str stat. It's all about the shield, baby.
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Manshin
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Post by Manshin on Feb 28, 2013 22:39:07 GMT -5
NWN does "not" run away with the numbers when it comes to strength.
The strongest possible human without magic in D&D land is 23 by level 20 (everything past that is super human). That's a max overhead press of to 600 lbs. the world record for overhead press is 535 lbs. That is 15 lbs more than what a 22 str can manage. Therefore D&D's strength system is perfectly in line with reality.
I will make one allowance for the ladies of FRC: According to source, females are exactly as strong as males on average, and yet seem to maintain the average 30% smaller average body mass. Therefore it stands to reason that women in D&D land have chimpanzee muscles as they maintain equal strength with 30% less body mass.
So I admit, according to source, they won't look like complete hulks until getting to around 18 str as opposed to 16.
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Post by arisnorman1 on Feb 28, 2013 23:37:22 GMT -5
at times i wish this was like the fable games. through the game you put points into areas. it shows how your muscle mass grows and your skill in archery and sneaking aka dex. will power int n char for mages. if only NWN could do that to actually enforce the rp. if only
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Post by Fluffy the Mad on Mar 1, 2013 0:03:49 GMT -5
at times i wish this was like the fable games. through the game you put points into areas. it shows how your muscle mass grows and your skill in archery and sneaking aka dex. will power int n char for mages. if only NWN could do that to actually enforce the rp. if only How about we also enforce that evil == uglier than sin, then? Or good always looks good and have halos around their head? Enforcement isn't the way to go.
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Post by arisnorman1 on Mar 1, 2013 0:16:56 GMT -5
explain this how the hell can you hide muscles that you grow unless behind armor no way in hell. honestly its bull *chickenwing* and metagaming. no way a dainty rose can lift full plate and a tower sheild and all that. they have to have some muscles.
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Post by Fluffy the Mad on Mar 1, 2013 0:26:51 GMT -5
explain this how the hell can you hide muscles that you grow unless behind armor no way in hell. honestly its bull *chickenwing* and metagaming. no way a dainty rose can lift full plate and a tower sheild and all that. they have to have some muscles. I'm not disagreeing that RP'ing these things to a more reasonable extent is a good thing. I'm trying to say (as I have been this entire thread) that the specifics should be left up to the individual as a player, not to the community as a whole to decide on.
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Post by Rane on Mar 1, 2013 0:34:58 GMT -5
If you have high wisdom then be wise. It doesnt mean your vastly intelligent. It is more like street smarts. Or the ways of the world learned over years of experience. If you have super high intelligence, then go agead and act like you got it! If you have 6 charisma, well then we feel sorry for your dwarf/orc and hope for the best in your love life
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Post by Thrym on Mar 1, 2013 1:52:22 GMT -5
NWN does "not" run away with the numbers when it comes to strength. The strongest possible human without magic in D&D land is 23 by level 20 (everything past that is super human). That's a max overhead press of to 600 lbs. the world record for overhead press is 535 lbs. That is 15 lbs more than what a 22 str can manage. Therefore D&D's strength system is perfectly in line with reality. ... Level 20? Hardly. A level 1 Human Barbarian can rage for 22 str, leaving him a puny 15 lbs short. Seeing how 15 lbs isn't even 3% of that guy's max lift, as a PnP DM I'd just let him lift it. With a stricter DM, he has to wait for level 4 assuming one restricts him to core. NOTHING at level 20 is in line with reality. Anything at level 20 that is in line with reality is BAD, because at level 20 people turn into dragons, stop time and gate in house-sized demons.
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Manshin
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Post by Manshin on Mar 1, 2013 2:19:53 GMT -5
Rage hardly counts. Mothers have been known to lift cars off their children when they go into a berserker rage.
On earth we rocket through the air in metal tubes, split atoms and have magic boxes in our homes that lie to us. Every world has its fantastic stuff. In both places, being strong requires muscles dispute what other amazing stuff that goes on.
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Post by Thrym on Mar 1, 2013 2:35:41 GMT -5
I don't see any of this disproving that a level 1 can nearly match / a level 4 barbarian easily break the world record. And he can't just do that when his kid is under a car, he can do that every day (more than once if he's level 4 or learned extra rage) at any time as long as he is well rested.
Rage most definitly counts. No person that ever existed was anywhere close to being level 20. You will not be able to find anything anyone ever did which can't be done by a character around level 5.
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Post by arisnorman1 on Mar 1, 2013 4:22:38 GMT -5
idk honestly if i see people like i said. i make comments to point out. but seems this thread is starting to die alot of people chose not to rp it that on them. there fault to follow what is rp.
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Post by Munroe on Mar 1, 2013 5:42:23 GMT -5
at times i wish this was like the fable games. through the game you put points into areas. it shows how your muscle mass grows and your skill in archery and sneaking aka dex. will power int n char for mages. if only NWN could do that to actually enforce the rp. if only I own Fable II. I seriously cannot make my character not look like The Hulk. She's female, but I'm not saying She-Hulk, I'm saying The Hulk. Ang Lee's Hulk that's as big as a pickup truck. I tried reassigning all my stats so I was playing a caster too, but she always ends up as a muscle-bound behemoth. My solution, I think, in the end, was to stop playing. I saw pictures of the good/evil characters in Fable III too, and that became a non-purchase. All I ever did in the game was buy places then rent them out and get venereal diseases anyway. There was a story in there somewhere, I think. I liked fighting balverines. Not a fan of that approach of mandatory appearances, but I would love to see characters with 20+ STR score (not from magic items/spells) played as more muscle-bound. I have a hard time taking them seriously when they act cute and dainty. Granted, dragon disciples might not look as muscular as humans with the same obscene STR score, but they also have fangs, claws, and scales. (And being a dragon disciple is something a character consciously chooses to do, so they chose to look like that.) Anyway, nothing says a muscle-bound woman can't have a pretty face.
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abby
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Post by abby on Mar 1, 2013 6:38:55 GMT -5
Well I know there were berserkers on earth who could summon up freakish retard strength and foam at the mouth. I think the reason we don't get level 20 swordsman on earth is because we lack cure spells and raise dead. It helps to learn from defeat instead if dying from it.
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Post by quelunia on Mar 2, 2013 15:13:06 GMT -5
Berserkers... there was a battle in england fought on a bridge by 8 Norseman (Normans), these 8 men fought for 9 hours against 400 men trying to get across... I am talking sword and shield in your face fighting, not guns acroos the stream... Medival battles were vicious and face to face wiht pushing shoving and stabbing as well as slashing and piercing screams of wounded and dying, pools of blood to slip on and entrail spilt to the ground to be tanggled in. These 8 men overcame all that to defend the bridge till reinforcements could come. 400 men able bodied warriors of their own fought.. stbbed slashed and died in the tens at the feet of these 8 men.. Norse Viking Berzerkers. Their strength enhanced by a mind set of rage and determination. These guys had hellasious constitution and skill to stand against those odds....
Then there are the Spartans, 300 of them, and a coalition of 1300 greek nationals. 1600 men stood against what by historical accounts claim to be at least 1 million... For 3 days they fought from sun up till sun down... That was an insane situation... again... and these guys were using spears that broke then moved to swords made of bronze which also wound up breaking... No archers to keep the enemy at bay... Just straight toe to toe fighting.. I dont htink many people other than those of us who have actually seen combat on a battle field understand the will power and determination it takes ...
So, the people that think there has never been someone that would by D&D standards be level 20 are wrong, well not wrong but misunderstanding what battles are like.
Then, Mary Magdaline was the first person in the Bibles account to go to visit Jesus in his Tomb... By D&D standards, one cannot raise themselves from the dead. It could be assumed that Mary M. was capable of casting a resurrection as Jesus was... so.. there is religious proof to magics of healing to at least a level 17 equivilant.
As for mages... lets say that those capable of Prophecy are Diviners ... There is evedence of alot of them in History.. Nostradamus.. being one non religious... Even Muslims claim Jesus was a prophet... If he was nothing else 2 religions claim him as one. Trying to be politically correct here.
As you can see, there have been people in History that have been beyound the norm. If you cant see that look ot Benghazi.. 2 SEALS... stood for 7 hours defending what hte government admits was undefendable... They fought to save all the civilians that were ferried away in those 7 hours before they were unltimatlly over run and killed by mortars from afar. This took guts and bravery many of you may now nothing about.
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Post by Thrym on Mar 2, 2013 19:25:47 GMT -5
Berserkers... there was a battle in england fought on a bridge by 8 Norseman (Normans), these 8 men fought for 9 hours against 400 men trying to get across... I am talking sword and shield in your face fighting, not guns acroos the stream... Medival battles were vicious and face to face wiht pushing shoving and stabbing as well as slashing and piercing screams of wounded and dying, pools of blood to slip on and entrail spilt to the ground to be tanggled in. These 8 men overcame all that to defend the bridge till reinforcements could come. 400 men able bodied warriors of their own fought.. stbbed slashed and died in the tens at the feet of these 8 men.. Norse Viking Berzerkers. Their strength enhanced by a mind set of rage and determination. These guys had hellasious constitution and skill to stand against those odds.... Then there are the Spartans, 300 of them, and a coalition of 1300 greek nationals. 1600 men stood against what by historical accounts claim to be at least 1 million... For 3 days they fought from sun up till sun down... That was an insane situation... again... and these guys were using spears that broke then moved to swords made of bronze which also wound up breaking... No archers to keep the enemy at bay... Just straight toe to toe fighting.. I dont htink many people other than those of us who have actually seen combat on a battle field understand the will power and determination it takes ... So, the people that think there has never been someone that would by D&D standards be level 20 are wrong, well not wrong but misunderstanding what battles are like. Even assuming those stories are not hyberbole for a moment... 400 vs 8 means each of em had to kill 50. Have you ever soloed the kobold cave with a level 6 character? Betcha you killed more than 50, and the optimization ceiling in PnP is way higher than in NWN. The only reason to assume these guys were high level is if you assume their oponents were high level, of which there is absolutely no indication. I ... am not sure wether we have forum rules regarding wether I may answer this or not. Let me just say that I don't think one should be quoting religious texts as facts when discussing historical events, regardless of wether one personally believes in them or not. Regarding the one non religious example, divination is a level 4 spell, so even if you were to argue for Nostradamus being a spellcaster, which I personally would find myself disagreeing with, he doesn't have to be over level 7 to cast Divination. Personally, if restricted to Core, I'd stat Nostradamus as a level 6 Expert. 9 Ranks in Bluff, +3 from skill focus, +2 from Persuasive, +6 from Charisma (18 Base +1 from level up +3 from aging for 22 base), leaving him with an impressive +20 Bluff Mod. Add in him having a few trusted helpers looking his prophecies over to give him a +2 aid another bonus each, and he can easily roll over 30, enough to make a very believable fake prophecy. Again, it's quite possible for a few level 6 characters to stop a few dozen level 1 or 2 warriors. These seals only need to be over level 6 if you assume their enemies are, for which there is no indication. Badass as your warrior examples are, level 20 characters find all these examples trivial. A completely naked level 20 fighter can survive full immersion in lava, jump out of a plane without a parachute, smash adamant with his bare hands, easily wrestle down polar bears and other crazy crap like that, and for him these aren't flukes, this is stuff he can do again and again. None of the warriors in these examples could do any of those things. They did incredibly impressive things and were friggin badass for sure, but none of these feats require them to be level 20, or even level 10.
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abby
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Post by abby on Mar 2, 2013 23:09:51 GMT -5
All I was saying is that a level 20 person with max strength will fall in line with the strongest humans known on Earth. This was in reply to the notion that NWN runs away with the numbers. It doesn't. The strongest non-super human by D&D standards (level 20 or below) is roughly the same as the world's strongest people. Physical strength lines up with reality in this. This doesn't include supernatural powers from character classes that we don't have access to on earth.
As for Wisdom, it's my opinion that it should have 0 to do with being Wise. Only a player can provide that. After all; we've all RPed with characters who have high Wis & Int but who say and do really dumb stuff. So for me, these scores should all represent more physical traits which can be applied to game mechanics.
Wisdom should represent Will Power. Will power represents courage, pain tolerance and your PC's inclination to resist self-destructive habits. I know people will bitch about this, but think about it; what does you cardio and physical health have to do with pain tolerance?
The classes who have high will saves are wizards, clerics and monks. Who has more courage than a zealot who knows he has a God at his back and 1000 virgins waiting in the afterlife for him? Not a fighter. Who has better pain tolerance than a monk with perfect self-control who is already accustomed to living on rice & water, sleeping on a board and bringing a fist to a sword fight? Not a barbarian. Wizards are steeped in mysterious and scary crap and have deep understanding of crap that scares normal people silly, unlike dumb meatheads who smash stuff. "But but... I'm a high level weapon master who has fought dragons!!"
You are correct! That is why your fighter/weapon master/rogue has a vastly higher will save than normal commoners. However you are not a freaky zealot, a monk with enough self control to squeeze ki out of there knuckles or a wizard who summons horrible demons for chats with only a crappy chalk circles between them and horrific doom.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2013 1:35:32 GMT -5
Even assuming those stories are not hyberbole for a moment... 400 vs 8 means each of em had to kill 50. Have you ever soloed the kobold cave with a level 6 character? Betcha you killed more than 50, and the optimization ceiling in PnP is way higher than in NWN. The only reason to assume these guys were high level is if you assume their oponents were high level, of which there is absolutely no indication. Okay, I gotta chime in here. If you want to know what levels of physical skill some people are able to achieve? Try this on for size. Go and find a treadmill that can reach a speed of 12.5 miles per hour. Get on the treadmill at that speed and see what it feels like to run at that speed. (For most people who aren't serious runners and some who are, it's a fast sprint.) Now imagine sustaining that speed not for the 30 seconds that it will take most people to fall off the treadmill, but sustaining it for a little over two hours, because 12.5 miles per hour is the speed that world record holders sustain for a marathon. On average. Up hills and down hills and around corners. It's insane. I've been close enough to world record runners to at least spend a little time running with them, shaking hands, that sort of thing. They float across the ground like ghosts. The handshake of a world class runner, without even working on hand strength, is like taking a hold of a lump of iron with a pulse. It's unbelievable. And that's the untrained hand of an athlete who works most with their legs and cardiovascular system in a way that's not even aimed at muscle power. If you think people can't achieve almost otherworldly levels of performance and strength ... I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. Provably, demonstrably wrong.
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