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Post by thogrimur on Sept 22, 2005 14:24:29 GMT -5
Knowing when to run is crucial to survival. And there is a thread on this as well. Also...trying to talk first instead of fight is a good way to begin. I am constantly advising those rogue pirates and bandits to surrender...they just never take heed. One of these days though I will capture one of these punks. You can always try to fight if the beastie is not too responsive to parley. And you can always run (as long as you aren't getting blasted with TS over and again! *coughs* And...if you are alone...well...that is the risk you take, and the point of the proposed changes is to actually make travelling alone as risky as it should be...the death system too is set to change...(or is that off the table at the moment??) Whether in a group or alone, I just always try to do what my character would be doing. Rp even when you are alone, and you will often be suprised when something comes to life around you. Personally, I keep the camera angle in a 1st person view (unless I am in a closed quarters area) With this view I can wander around cities and outdoor areas for hours without ever growing bored. (*to Spooks -That time Clotho was behind me en route to Redmist - not sure how long you were following me, but I was kind of daydreaming and I did forget to check over my shoulder - so I never saw you coming until you were right there - *to others - if it seems I am ignoring you - I am seeing through my players eyes...if you are behind me, It is very likely that I don't see you, unless I actually stop and look around (which I usually do remember to do!)...so don't feel ignored as that isn't my intent at all. Just whistle or something. I just tend to soak up whatever realism I can get. Sorry I think I am straying off topic...
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Post by DM Valkyrie on Sept 22, 2005 14:58:07 GMT -5
Contrary to popular belief, (and I am speaking only for myself), not every DM is going to drop something on someone for "punishment". Granted, if I see the same person in the same dungeon (at the same time even!) every single day/every time I log in, yes, they may find a nasty surprise.
However, most of the time, if I see someone exploring, and I know they have been to the area a couple times, or even if they haven't, I may drop something "different" into the dungeon for spice. The same dungeon with the same encounters over and over can be dull....and that's just not fun! Or, in the case in the Mistwood, the Rakshasa is a part of a story...(um, still figuring out how much is too much in regards to those...apologies if it was "too much").
Soloing isn't illegal. Dangerous, yes, but not illegal. The difficulty slider will affect how the encounter goes, maybe it will go better as I understand for archer types, maybe worse, we will have to see. And as Justi said, some of us are still learning the CR/ PC level ratio to find "the perfect challenge".
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Post by Talus on Sept 22, 2005 15:04:57 GMT -5
Or, in the case in the Mistwood, the Rakshasa is a part of a story...(um, still figuring out how much is too much in regards to those...apologies if it was "too much"). The Rakshasa would have been fine I think if those Goblin riders hadn't been there to ambush us. That one with the flaming staff would have been toast if I could have snuck up on her ;D Blast I am starting to sound like Gial.
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Post by Laurk on Sept 22, 2005 16:27:36 GMT -5
The dragon Kobald.. that was me. Well.. I thought they could take him. They were breezing through those Kobalds without even getting scratched, and it was only a challenge rating of 7 (Oops) Anyway, I was going to help, but you both respawned right away, and then my computer exploded. Dont worry, ill make it up to you.
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Sept 22, 2005 16:30:17 GMT -5
The dragon Kobald.. that was me. Well.. I thought they could take him. They were breezing through those Kobalds without even getting scratched, and it was only a challenge rating of 7 (Oops) Anyway, I was going to help, but you both respawned right away, and then my computer exploded. Dont worry, ill make it up to you. There, it is settled! I knew it had to be an innocent mistake. I am sure DM Laurk will make it up to you. Glad that's cleared up. Cheers!
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Post by kenny26 on Sept 22, 2005 17:33:10 GMT -5
i don't wanna sound like i'm complaining, and i mean this with the best intentions, so read it all before you hate me.
the DMs could be getting a bit overzealous regarding the trashing of soloists... to a player it is just nerve wrecking to see new monsters appearing because there is never a clear indication of why this is happening. "am i being punished? does this DM think i'm farming this area?" that's the first thought rushing through my head, and it's not very pleasant because i am trying to behave and not be another headache for the DMs to handle (even if you didn't notice, which just means i'll have to try harder). the second thought running through my head is "maybe this is a plot?" and yet, i can't help but ask myself the first question again.
sometimes it has felt like a punishment and i have later been told it was a DM trying to start a plot. other times it has been a DM thinking i was farming a low level area when in truth it was my first time there, and the punishment i had been dealt was not justified. i know DMs are only humans and it's an easy mistake to make in the case of a player exploring a low level area.
my suggestion to the DMs: if you just want to have fun with this person and "spice things up for him so he won't have to go through the same encounters again and again" and it is not a punishment, let that player know instead of letting him think he's done something wrong. just drop him a single line in a tell so he'll know not to be affraid that he has done something wrong. if you think a player is farming, but you're not sure, then just hang back a bit and observe him. better to let it go unpunished once than to punish an innocent player, no?
it could be that i'm just nervous that i keep thinking i'm being punished when i see strange monsters appearing, but it could be that this is a general concern among players. lately i have talked to other players who would just be too scared to go anywhere alone if they saw a DM on the player list when they logged on, even if this player has never farmed any area.
don't take this the wrong way, i think it's great if the DMs take their time to try and show the players a good time, i'm just trying to share my player's perspective on the situation.
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Post by DM Richard (Retired) on Sept 22, 2005 18:15:51 GMT -5
I haven't been on in a while so what I have to say goes back some time. I've had players ask on the DM channel if they did something wrong. If you are unsure just ask.
Since I was the only DM on at the time I went to see what was going on. There was no DM involved just left over spawns from another player. Another time someone asked if they had done something wrong and I was spawning things but it too wasn't punishment and I let them know.
We try to make things interesting rather than repetitive and some players really like that. If you have a doubt as to whats going on just ask. We won't bite your head off. Better to know why something is happening than to wonder about it and assume the wrong reason.
As to a DM just coming out and telling you "hey this is part of a plot"... well to me it just takes away from the mood. If need be I would tell you it is part of a plot (if you are worried that you are being punished) but I'd rather keep the role-playing mood instead of interrupting it if possible.
New creatures can cause things to go disasterously also. As well as all new DM's have to learn how different creatures CR's really fit. Trust me on this one thing if nothing else... If a DM thinks you might be a problem... (1) you will be watched to see if it is true (we try not to jump to conclusions) and (2) if it is true one of us will pull you aside and talk WITH you.
And when I say "talk WITH you" I don't mean "talk TO you". That involves listening as well as talking. How many of you has this happened too?
I guess what I'm saying is when in doubt about an action by a DM feel free to ask. I know I've made mistakes. But I've fixed them.
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Post by Grozer on Sept 22, 2005 18:19:31 GMT -5
i don't wanna sound like i'm complaining, and i mean this with the best intentions, so read it all before you hate me. the DMs could be getting a bit overzealous regarding the trashing of soloists... to a player it is just nerve wrecking to see new monsters appearing because there is never a clear indication of why this is happening. "am i being punished? does this DM think i'm farming this area?" that's the first thought rushing through my head, and it's not very pleasant because i am trying to behave and not be another headache for the DMs to handle (even if you didn't notice, which just means i'll have to try harder). the second thought running through my head is "maybe this is a plot?" and yet, i can't help but ask myself the first question again. sometimes it has felt like a punishment and i have later been told it was a DM trying to start a plot. other times it has been a DM thinking i was farming a low level area when in truth it was my first time there, and the punishment i had been dealt was not justified. i know DMs are only humans and it's an easy mistake to make in the case of a player exploring a low level area. my suggestion to the DMs: if you just want to have fun with this person and "spice things up for him so he won't have to go through the same encounters again and again" and it is not a punishment, let that player know instead of letting him think he's done something wrong. just drop him a single line in a tell so he'll know not to be affraid that he has done something wrong. if you think a player is farming, but you're not sure, then just hang back a bit and observe him. better to let it go unpunished once than to punish an innocent player, no? it could be that i'm just nervous that i keep thinking i'm being punished when i see strange monsters appearing, but it could be that this is a general concern among players. lately i have talked to other players who would just be too scared to go anywhere alone if they saw a DM on the player list when they logged on, even if this player has never farmed any area. don't take this the wrong way, i think it's great if the DMs take their time to try and show the players a good time, i'm just trying to share my player's perspective on the situation. For what its worth, you have a point Kenny. A couple of times I wasn't sure if I was being punished or not. Let me tell you it is a horrible feeling since I dont want any DM thinking I PG or farm. Once you have that label its kinda hard to shake not too mention when this happens and you are not sure its punishment, it just ruins it for me.. hard to RP when you have that in the back of your mind. Don't get me wrong, I welcome DM interaction, including droping surprises on me all the time... heck I think all of us do... but if I did something wrong I would also like to know, cant change behavior if I dont know I did something I shouldnt. Anyway, rather than the DM sending a generic tell, maybe a tell to add to the atmosphere? "a strange uneasiness fills your stomach as the air around you goes still" I dont know if this is appropriate but I did use small hints like this when I DM'd PnP games...
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Post by Talus on Sept 22, 2005 18:27:51 GMT -5
Well here's how I handle it when I get spawns dropped on me. I treat them all as the start to a plot of some kind. The spawn very well could be to get me to leave an area.*shrugs* and if it is to much for me yeah i run, ussually to the nearest gaurd or Purple dragon and tell them to get ready. If it is near a town. If not near a town, well I run to one. I don't know I have never had a DM kill me intentionally. If they did, I have almost always been raised, or something. If something not normal to the area kills you ussually it's a good idea to lay there on the ground for a bit.
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Post by DM Richard (Retired) on Sept 22, 2005 18:36:30 GMT -5
"Anyway, rather than the DM sending a generic tell, maybe a tell to add to the atmosphere? 'a strange uneasiness fills your stomach as the air around you goes still' "
Thats a good point if it isn't a surprise attack!!! That adds to the feel and lets the player know it isn't a slap on the wrist.
I've used the warning *the water swirls nearby* on several occasions.
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Post by kenny26 on Sept 22, 2005 18:54:01 GMT -5
well it was just to get it off my chest really. i'll ask on DM channel if i'm ever in doubt then. regardless, i think it couldn't hurt anyone to disguss the DM's individual take on things here on the forums...
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Post by Laurk on Sept 22, 2005 20:01:13 GMT -5
I promise I will give you at least three seconds of warning before I drop the Tarrasque on you Kenny.
"Somehow, in the pit of your stomach, you know that you are about to be wiped out!"
hehe
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Post by Kolfrosta on Sept 23, 2005 4:13:39 GMT -5
Hmm. I kinda like the surprises, especially if they aren't dropped right on top of me. I then feel like I have a choice, fight or flee. If I fight, and get creamed...then it's my fault, because I could have just turned around and walked away, as long as there is a way to escape.
Never liked death-traps, still have a slight grudge held for the one I had to endure with a party some months ago, in a dungeon I had never gotten all the way through until a few weeks ago......
For the record, I can't solo that dungeon...actually, there are a lot of places Sharita can't solo, and so few epics and near epics to party with.
*dibs on the log in Isinhold* ;D
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Post by olwentheold on Sept 23, 2005 5:19:27 GMT -5
Hmm. I kinda like the surprises, especially if they aren't dropped right on top of me. I then feel like I have a choice, fight or flee. If I fight, and get creamed...then it's my fault, because I could have just turned around and walked away, as long as there is a way to escape. Never liked death-traps, still have a slight grudge held for the one I had to endure with a party some months ago, in a dungeon I had never gotten all the way through until a few weeks ago...... For the record, I can't solo that dungeon...actually, there are a lot of places Sharita can't solo, and so few epics and near epics to party with. *dibs on the log in Isinhold* ;D Here, here! Surprises I like - death traps however . . .
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Post by Grozer on Sept 23, 2005 8:21:08 GMT -5
Hmm. I kinda like the surprises, especially if they aren't dropped right on top of me. I then feel like I have a choice, fight or flee. If I fight, and get creamed...then it's my fault, because I could have just turned around and walked away, as long as there is a way to escape. For what its worth... I dont know maybe its me, but why do these encounters always seem to result in the PC running away? I mean I would rather be surprised with something challenging that might take most of everything I have but if I play it right I can defeat it. If the monster dropped is always so uber and always results in the PC fleeing for his/her life... as I said for me, its not always as fun...
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Post by kenny26 on Sept 23, 2005 17:54:07 GMT -5
yeah i have yet to actually defeat any of the special spawns thrown at me... one time, it was just me and cormac fighting orcs, and we knew there was a DM on making these spawns. naturally, we dreaded the almighty warlord and prepared to have to face him, just the two of us. and we did it! we defeated the orc warlord, only just barely. i've never been so proud of a kill... then we press on and have another warlord thrown in our faces, the DM appearently unaware of the great effort and luck it took to survive the previous one. that just left me with a feeling of... d**n it! i can't win this! we lived and he just threw another one at us until we were dead... turns out he wanted us dead so he could initiate a story with us. but still, i'd like to see a DM dropping spawns at me that he actually can expect me to beat... the spawns DMs drop on you are cool, but please, try to make some of them beatable? i know DMs can expect great tactics if the chars are to win, but honestly, even with tactics and great caution, i still haven't come out on top of any of these encounters.
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Post by Kolfrosta on Sept 23, 2005 23:24:14 GMT -5
Sharita has had some interesting things throwm at her....a few she walked/ran away from (sorry, DMs....demi-liches are things she recognizes and knows she cannot beat by herself), others she did manage to defeat....at great cost (and great surprise to me). But, just the thrill of having defeated something "Impossible".......priceless.
So, do not despair...not everything thrown at us is unbeatable.....
*wonders how to mention the difficulty slider somewhere in the post*
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Post by StabbingNirvana on Sept 24, 2005 22:07:32 GMT -5
demiliches are beatable as long as you have knock down. successfully knocking down a floating skull is a feat all its own.
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Post by moulinous on Sept 25, 2005 18:09:33 GMT -5
How about dont farm? There is several areas that i go tp often, but only if my guy is really going to be challenged. Clearing the orc caves with a tenth level character by yourself does not count but clearing it yourself with a 5th level character more than once a week? go for it, i think. i try also to never hit the same spot twice in one setting. Heck, as for a DM being on, i rarely check to see if one is on. if a creature spawns that is different then normal, i think cool, lets test my limits against it, or if i must, my running speed when or if the situation goes badly. i cannot think any DM would misuse their power but if they do, its hopefully for the better of the game. anyhow, rp you later
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Post by Munroe on Oct 9, 2005 6:31:27 GMT -5
*sings a song*
Critical hits make my day! Critical hits make you pay! Farm a lot, farm a lot! Yay! Yay! Yay!
Any NPC with weaponmaster class is getting a pretty good nerf with the difficulty slider set on normal since that class gets a lot of critical bonuses.
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Post by Eons of Recluse on Oct 9, 2005 8:24:14 GMT -5
I have had two rather funny things with impossible enemies...
First was when I played my lvl 1 druid on another server. She had a sling, quarterstaff and a badger. All her equipment, no armour, no clothes, just those simple weapons. Don't remember if it was an ettin or uberogre but I took it down. The fact that it was already near death helped a lot tho. So I managed to take it down with the help of her heroic yet grumpy badger, Snowball. Once it was down I got incredible 36 experience points and started to leave. Suddenly looked up at my portrait, it indicated a lvl up. I stared at it and was like "What the...? Last time I checked I only had 200 points in total". So my gaze wandered over the combat info and chat windows. There was a tell from a DM "Good job" and on the other window there was 1000 points. Such a generous DM.
Second was when I had my just made rogue sneak in the forest to get out of the elven city where he started. Ran into a spider called Queen Spider. Impossible and near death too as I found it wandering the forests. Hit stealth on, sneaked right behind it and shot a ciritical sneak attack at it's back with my light crossbow. It died with one hit and then glanced down at the combat info window... 1 point gained. Damn I laughed hard after that ^^
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Post by Laurk on Oct 9, 2005 14:40:44 GMT -5
Lets try to keep this one on topic, though honestly all the point have probably been made either way.
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henny
Proven Member
No Comparison. Period.
Posts: 218
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Post by henny on Oct 9, 2005 15:04:34 GMT -5
The dragon Kobald.. that was me. Well.. I thought they could take him. They were breezing through those Kobalds without even getting scratched, and it was only a challenge rating of 7 (Oops) Anyway, I was going to help, but you both respawned right away, and then my computer exploded. Dont worry, ill make it up to you. Just want to say that when you hit my group with the Dragon Kobold in the caves.. It was awesome!! Especially the fact I see you tearing up my female tank friends with the unhittable kobold, and poof out of inviso comes the gnome and round after round nukes that sucker with magic missiles from my wand *looks down at the smoking remains of his wand* It was great.. well till the fem tanks decided to retreat and hide behind the gnome sorceror.. that wasn't so special, and I tell you the gnome was kinda surprised to be the nominated the 'meat shield' It was probably my fault what with me getting trigger happy with the wand and blasting eveerything Icould click on... foe and friend alike. *shrugs* the power went to my head. But do you know how hard it is to target a kobold in between two tanks?.
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Post by Munroe on Oct 9, 2005 15:52:40 GMT -5
I was yelling at you two to retreat but I must have been too far away. I figured if I took the lead maybe you'd follow.
Didn't mean to nominate you for "meatshield", was just trying not to die at 4 hp when I ran past you. My AC was irrelevant concerning that thing, as was my AB. That's why I started using Wand of Frost--at least it could hit. I didn't know RP-wise it was "regenerating", I thought there was a hidden kobold cleric raising it. That thing dropped me to 4 hp in what I perceived as 2 hits (It may have been more, but it seemed like two hits. Without critical hits, the only way he could do so much damage is Sneak Attacks) so I was ready to GO, LEAVE, Get Out... you get the idea. ;D It may be that you were shooting me with magic missiles... I just know my health dropped fast.
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henny
Proven Member
No Comparison. Period.
Posts: 218
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Post by henny on Oct 9, 2005 16:43:22 GMT -5
Note to all non-DM PCs. Really want to impress a DM? 'Accidently' shoot his PC with magic missiles. Over and over. While he's fighting to protect you. Guaranteed to make an impression! Oh yeah and make sure another DM is controlling the critters so that he can take advantage of the situation to poke fun at one of his fellow DMs. ;D I should start a poll.. aftre this post does, anyone fear my gnome yet? at least in the "Oh my god its that gnome! Where's the 40th level munroe-dragon chasing him?" kind of way? Seriously though.. it was exciting, intense, had lots of scantily clad women, and filled with RP. *shrugs* Perfect IMHO. Any guys out there disagree?
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