How to RP the Shadowdancer Class

[Rook]

Because the Shadowdancer class is now a permitted PrC I thought it would be good to start a thread on how to RP leading up to this class and as a Shadowdancer. I'm assuming there's more than one right way to do it. Be nice and discuss.

[berforam]

Sweeeeeeet ! now its allowed =D

[Savoie Faire]

My personal opinion is that as a general rule, shadows are supposed to be masters of stealth and secrecy. Thus I have been stunned in the past when characters openly discussed the source and useage of their 'mysterious' shadow-powers.

I would think that, again, as a general rule, most shadowdancers would hoard secrets like a dragon hoards gold. Getting even a sliver of real information from a shadowdancer should be the end product of a nearly lifelong quest. I certainly wouldn't care to see a shadowdancer standing in front of an inn openly prozlytizing for the faith!

Misdirection, concealment, and obfuscation should be as natural to a shadowdancer as picking flowers is to a little girl. Even the 'Good' shadowdancers would avoid conversations concerning the origins and extents of their powers outside their own troupe.

This brings up another matter: the Shadowdancer Troupe. I have no problem with several PC's claiming they belong to the same or to different troupes. I have a serious problem with them discussing the matter IC in the presence of non-members. The only thing the Shadowdancer would hold more secretly than his abilities is the presence of his allies.

As a DM I will never create Shadowdancer NPC's who are part of a PC's troupe. You are on your own! Roleplay any organization or lack thereof that suits your character, but do not expect a DM to animate them for you any more than we'll animate the clergy of Lathander to rally to the cause of a PC cleric.

[EDM Entori]

[The Supreme Watcher]

Jan 19, 2011 9:34:29 GMT -5 EDM Entori said:

You realize he's an Assassin, right? Not a Shadowdancer? lmao

[EDM Entori]

Jan 19, 2011 0:05:31 GMT -5 Savoie Faire said:

My personal opinion is that as a general rule, shadows are supposed to be masters of stealth and secrecy. Thus I have been stunned in the past when characters openly discussed the source and useage of their 'mysterious' shadow-powers.

I would think that, again, as a general rule, most shadowdancers would hoard secrets like a dragon hoards gold. Getting even a sliver of real information from a shadowdancer should be the end product of a nearly lifelong quest. I certainly wouldn't care to see a shadowdancer standing in front of an inn openly prozlytizing for the faith!

Misdirection, concealment, and obfuscation should be as natural to a shadowdancer as picking flowers is to a little girl. Even the 'Good' shadowdancers would avoid conversations concerning the origins and extents of their powers outside their own troupe.

This brings up another matter: the Shadowdancer Troupe. I have no problem with several PC's claiming they belong to the same or to different troupes. I have a serious problem with them discussing the matter IC in the presence of non-members. The only thing the Shadowdancer would hold more secretly than his abilities is the presence of his allies.

As a DM I will never create Shadowdancer NPC's who are part of a PC's troupe. You are on your own! Roleplay any organization or lack thereof that suits your character, but do not expect a DM to animate them for you any more than we'll animate the clergy of Lathander to rally to the cause of a PC cleric.

something I thought that game rather endeared.

[berforam]

Shadowdancers are ment to always have that "mysterious aura" arround them. Masters of visual missleading and deception, many are not to be fully trusted, since you never know what to expect from them.
Monks, rogues, assassins, rangers and bards makes excelent shadowdancers, and some druids, mages and clerics may also sometimes chose the shadowdancers path.

[mythosfakir]

I think the player of Joseph Dugan should really comment here. I've only rped with him a few times, but I was really impressed with the way he handles his shadowdancer.

[Aodhan the Unusual]

My first (and so far longest running) character on this server was Miss Torian Burrfoot, the other of the only 2 shadowdancers grandfathered in to keep the class when it was banned. Joseph came to her asking for lessons on how to dance.

Torian's whole shtick was spying and information gathering. And she was pretty good at it. Of course this eventually lead to all sides of every walk of life not trusting her enough to go to her for anything, or taking tidbits of information and doing anything with it. That is, unfortunately, one of the side effects of being good at what you do.

Of course spy work is just one of many lines a shadowdancer can go in to. Some are master thieves, assassins, performers, etc. It all depends on the character and how YOU think the character would handle and use such abilities.

[themarquis]

I used to play a shadow dancer on my other server. Here's my tips, directed at characters:

• Keep your character's talents hidden for as long as possible except for the closest friends. As soon as you're revealed as a shadow-dancer, people know what you can do. Too many people like to show off HIPS - this can create suspicion that can bring attention to you and whoever it is that you work with (be it a shadow-dancer troupe or other organization). Trying to keep it a secret makes for some interesting RP.
  
  
• If your character is going to shadow-dance or HIPS in front of someone who hasn't seen you shadow-dance before, have an emote, such as ..*Drops into a shadow on the ground, seemingly slipping 'through' it..* or ..*Steps back into the shade, his/her cold expression fading away along with the rest of her body..* That way people can properly react to your "hiding" in their plain sight.
  
  
• The shadow summon that comes with the class is meant to look like your character but be silent. The alignment matches your character's alignment. RP-wise, you can give the shadow some sort of personal meaning for your character. Your character may think that the shadow is some alter-ego or a friend to chat with in solace.
  
  
• In NWN PWs, lots of shadow-dancers are criminals, or evil. But there's nothing evil about the class. Lawful Good Paladins with the prerequisites could play a Shadowdancer if one were so inclined. There's nothing wrong with making your character seem evil, but playing a good and lawful shadow-dancer, in my opinion, can be very refreshing for others to see.
  

[soulfien]

If it were me, I wouldn't have friends trusted enough to let them know I was a shadowdancer. Like the CIA and FBI on TV and in the movies, you have no friends, only people who are not yet enemies.

I also would avoid at all costs hiding in an open area in broad daylight. That's just asking for trouble as people will gossip about that from Greatgaunt to Marsember.

[cloakedandhooded]

Jan 21, 2011 15:53:26 GMT -5 mythosfakir said:

I think the player of Joseph Dugan should really comment here. I've only rped with him a few times, but I was really impressed with the way he handles his shadowdancer.

How to RP the shadowdancer class?

I wrote a long post analyzing Joseph's musical themes from the Off-topic forum and relating them to his state of mind, but I decided it was a bunch of crap nobody wanted to read anyway, and was veering off-topic for the question, so decided not to post it.

My comments for the shadowdancer class would be that it's a skill-based class, not one where the powers are from some otherworldly source. I've seen people play shadowdancers in such a way as "my shadow grants me my powers." That's backwards to my thinking. Shadowdancing is something learned. It's not a divine skillset, no power is brokered from fiends, Shar, Mask, shadow demons, etc. In fact it has no alignment restriction, as themarquis said.

Yes, the shadowdancer's shadow does become a "separate" entity which can communicate intelligibly with the shadowdancer, but not until SD level 3, and even then, by the standard D&D SD rules, the shadowdancer suffers XP loss if the shadow is destroyed or dismissed. So it's really still a part of him, bonded to him as a wizard's familiar.

One thing I do disagree with his emoting flashy things about how the shadowdancer employs Hide in Plain Sight. Does he disappear in a puff of smoke? Slip into a shadow? No, the Hide in Plain Sight ability works when he's within 10 feet of a shadow that isn't his own. He doesn't have to step into it, he has to be beside of it. On the battle grid he could have a 5 foot squire between him and the shadow's outside edge (because to be within 10 feet, he'd have to be on the other 5 foot squire). If he's hiding in plain sight, less is more, I say. No flashy fireworks. He's there, then he isn't. "I could have sworn he was here a minute ago." Like those conversations Jim Gordon has with Batman in Batman: The Animated Series. Jim Gordon is just talking to Batman then he looks where Batman was and he's just not there anymore. Sure, Batman actually slipped away, rather than hiding in plain sight, but the effect is the same.

He's there, then he's not. "I was just looking at him, boss, I swear!" Hide in Plain Sight is a Supernatural ability. That means it is magic in nature.

Darkvision a shadowdancer gains, aside from being Supernatural, instead of Extraordinary, is the same as that a half-orc and a dwarf have. It doesn't imply Light Sensitivity, such as orcs and drow experience.

The Shadow Daze, Shadow Evade, and Summon Shadow abilities all have to deal with manipulating shadows directly. In D&D Shadow Evade was Shadow Jump, which was much cooler and a short-range teleport, but we don't have that luxury here, so I think of it as pulling the shadows up over the character for protection. This is similar to how the shadowdancer manipulates shadows to Hide in Plain Sight, really. In one case he pulls shadow over himself for partial concealment and protection, and in the other he pulls the shadow over himself for the illusion of total concealment.

How I few the shadowdancer's shadow: The Shadow Companion is sort of the shadowdancer's own personality imprinting on the shadowdancer's shadow because he works with it so much. That's why it shares his alignment, because it's a shadow of him. Since the shadow companion is supposed to be a permanent companion, like a wizard's familiar, I usually RP that the actual shadow my SD wears is his shadow companion, but it can only "manifest" in three dimensions part of the time. As the shadowdancer levels up and connects more with shadow, gains more control of shadow, his shadow manifests more powerfully/for longer duration.

As for the other class abilities? Defensive Roll? Slippery Mind? Uncanny Dodge 2? Improved Evasion? They're all rogue abilities anyway.

Shadowdancer attitude is of course going to vary heavily by background (rogue or monk or other?) and alignment (LE? CN? NG?). But even among the alignments, they should respect that they've been entrusted with a great secret, and they're the keepers of it. As people fear and distrust them, so too should they fear and distrust people who would want the power they have to use against them, or even want an understanding of shadowdancing so their understanding of it can be used against the shadowdancer(s).

[brian333]

I rather thought of the Shadowdancer's Shadow much as Peter Pan's Shadow. When it's animated, Peter himself casts no shadow. Like Peter himself, his shadow is a slippery, tricky thing always up to mischief and whatnot.

[Syd's Blue Sky]

This is exactly what I needed to get reinspired...

[cloakedandhooded]

Feb 2, 2011 18:11:25 GMT -5 brian333 said:

I rather thought of the Shadowdancer's Shadow much as Peter Pan's Shadow. When it's animated, Peter himself casts no shadow. Like Peter himself, his shadow is a slippery, tricky thing always up to mischief and whatnot.

I actually started a story once where the people Joseph is with freak-out because Joseph's shadow is away observing something for him and the party mistake Joseph for a vampire.

Multiple lights cause a person to have multiple thinner shadows though, so I always think of it as just the loss of the most dominant shadow.

And yes, I do think of it like Peter Pan's shadow.

[elysiumfields]

If permitted I'm going to try a new take on it.

The shadow believes that my character is the summon. As I gain normal levels, the Shadow summon will be a glimpse of movement out of the corner of his eye building up to interaction between the two once I am able to use the summon ability.

Occasionally his shadow will move on its own, much like the afore-mentioned similarity to Peter Pan's, but until the summon ability splits them they will be affixed. Naturally this would not happen in public unless the shadow thinks what my guy wants to do is completely the wrong thing. even then I only see it happening in front of other known Shadow Dancers or the only person he trusts.

Ultimately I want them to be able to play cards together or gamble with each other when no one else is around.

[Munroe]

Sept 13, 2011 15:57:14 GMT -5 elysiumfields said:

If permitted I'm going to try a new take on it.

The shadow believes that my character is the summon. As I gain normal levels, the Shadow summon will be a glimpse of movement out of the corner of his eye building up to interaction between the two once I am able to use the summon ability.

Occasionally his shadow will move on its own, much like the afore-mentioned similarity to Peter Pan's, but until the summon ability splits them they will be affixed. Naturally this would not happen in public unless the shadow thinks what my guy wants to do is completely the wrong thing. even then I only see it happening in front of other known Shadow Dancers or the only person he trusts.

Ultimately I want them to be able to play cards together or gamble with each other when no one else is around.

Unlike familiars, the shadowdancer's shadow companion doesn't gain intelligence increases as the shadowdancer levels, so it's still only as intelligent as a normal shadow. In other words, its INT is comparable to your average troll, hell hound, or ogre. INT 6, WIS 12, CHA 13 are the basic mental scores of a shadow. (As the shadow gains hitdice, it will gain normal ability increases for its hitdice every 4 HD, but that amounts to a fairly trivial increase given its rate of advancement--2 HD for every three SD levels.)

The main hindrance to a shadow playing games would be that it is incorporeal and can't interact with cards, dice, or other game pieces. Of course they could still place bets, but the bets would have to be paid in actions rather than items, I suppose.

[elysiumfields]

So with six int he'd still be smarter than Forrest Gump? (from what I remember it's about 10 IQ points per Int point)

You're under the impression that my guy wouldn't cheat his nethers off anyway

Joking aside it's more of a role play device to keep him from going off the rails than getting any meaningful interaction. Even if it were a corpse he'd still play.

...I mean he's a very lawfully good aligned character and would never dream of cheating at cards with a corpse.

[Munroe]

Sept 13, 2011 17:39:29 GMT -5 elysiumfields said:

So with six int he'd still be smarter than Forrest Gump? (from what I remember it's about 10 IQ points per Int point)

The film version of Forrest Gump has an IQ of about 75. So if it's 10 points IQ per INT point, the shadow would still be a fair bit less intelligent than Forrest Gump. Forrest Gump was also an idiot savant who was a chess and math wiz, so he's not a standard representation of a low-IQ character. It's been awhile since I read the book, but I seem to remember Forrest Gump's IQ being lower than 75 in the book. (It's a great book, not very long, and written entirely in Forrest Gump's voice. It's very funny.)

Sept 13, 2011 17:39:29 GMT -5 elysiumfields said:

You're under the impression that my guy wouldn't cheat his nethers off anyway

I don't think I said anything about your character's willingness to cheat.

Sept 13, 2011 17:39:29 GMT -5 elysiumfields said:

Joking aside it's more of a role play device to keep him from going off the rails than getting any meaningful interaction. Even if it were a corpse he'd still play.

...I mean he's a very lawfully good aligned character and would never dream of cheating at cards with a corpse.

I don't follow this whole thing with the corpse.

[elysiumfields]

If he didn't have a Shadow to interact with he would not be opposed to doing exactly the same thing with a corpse, or more likely a kidnapped someone or something, so the intelligence of the Shadow isn't important.

Will he believe the Shadow is an extension of his being, a sign of schizophrenia or a tool? I'm not sure yet, but I know it'll be conducted in private regardless.

Hope that clears it up.

[Sago Jerassen]

I would like to ask a question about actual shadow dancing part. When the skill is used, Do they simply fade from sight? do they leave the plan and enter the shadow plane? Do they slip into something like a mirrored plane like our own? I had thought it was like the lord of the rings and the use of the ring. am i wrong in this thinking.? I am asking for background story to help in my application for SD. Looking for details.

[mandene]

I don't remember where I got this information from, but basically Shadowdancers learn basic usage of "shadow illusion magic" (not to be confused with shadow weave), where they draw upon the shadow plane for their illusory tricks.

The basic idea used is that each shadow of the right size in the Material Plane, is in an essence a small portal to the Shadow Plane that the shadowdancer can use to "dance" and use his/her tricks from.



The HIPS itself is divided into 2 parts.

1) The "illusory trick" that lets you use a shadow nearby, to trick the onlookers into loosing you from their line of sight.
2) The hiding itself, which is the standard mundane hiding that the rogue/ranger/bard do. This part isn't magical, hence everyone can see or hear you if they pass the right spot/listen check.

There's nothing magical in remaining hidden, you don't go anywhere - you just use your old learned way of hiding. The only special part is in the tricking the onlookers the instance you hide, so that you don't have to go behind a rock or corner for them to loose the site of you.

What you need is to figure out how you have attained the knowledge how to manipulate the "shadow illusion" without being a mage.

[Edit]

Unless you find a teacher in game - but then you'll need to know why you want to learn it in the first place.

Also, when you learn it - what are you going to do with it? How will this ability affect you? How do you live with the secrecy of the powers you've learned? That sort of thing.

[mandene]

In PnP, the Shadow dancer can actually use a shadow to momentarily teleport a short distance - kind of like blinking. I think it's called "Shadow jump" (or step or some such). It is the one time the Shadow dancer actually travels into and through the shadow plane, using a shadow at the beginning and the end of the jump.

This does not exist in NWN. But points to the concept of the connection between the character, the shadows, and the plane.

[Sago Jerassen]

awesome stuff!! thank you. This helps me out a lot!

[Fluffy the Mad]

Sept 2, 2019 12:16:44 GMT -5 mandene said:

In PnP, the Shadow dancer can actually use a shadow to momentarily teleport a short distance - kind of like blinking. I think it's called "Shadow jump" (or step or some such). It is the one time the Shadow dancer actually travels into and through the shadow plane, using a shadow at the beginning and the end of the jump.

This does not exist in NWN. But points to the concept of the connection between the character, the shadows, and the plane.

Shadow Jump acts as dimension door. The player is never actually traveling through the other plane directly, iirc, just using it like a conduit between shadows if you choose to play it that way. It's effectively just shadow-hopping in 10-foot increments in the prime material plane.

[Sago Jerassen]

Fluffy thats how i was translating it to be myself. Now if i may add another question. What are the dangers of using the skill RP wise?

[Fluffy the Mad]

Sept 2, 2019 14:18:01 GMT -5 Sago Jerassen said:

Fluffy thats how i was translating it to be myself. Now if i may add another question. What are the dangers of using the skill RP wise?

I can't imagine many. It works or it doesn't, and when you jump you slam into that table you were trying to pass. Or wind up with that nasty orc noticing some idiot hopping out of their hiding place.

[Shady Character]

Now I have the feels for a Shadow Dancer.

[malclave]

Sorry, can't resist...

SPOILER: Click to show

[Dobian]

Sept 3, 2019 10:31:17 GMT -5 malclave said:

Sorry, can't resist...

Somebody needs to step up and make a shadowdancer named Gibb.