Cormyr is more than Greatgaunt...

[Charon's Claw]

+1

[Roseanna]

+5

I really wish people would go other places.... Valkur's Roar, Suzail, Eveningstar... something OTHER than Greatgaunt.

I really dislike going there considering the level my main character is to interact with people.

[minsafedistance]

Wagon from

Shallybrook to (walk might be safe)
Valkurs Roar to (walk might be safe)
GreatGaunt to
Skull Crag to
Tyrluk to (walk might be safe)
Espar to (walk might be safe)
Waymoot to
Dhedulk to
Eveningstar to (is free)
Suzail to (walk might be safe)
Marsember to
Immersea to
Arabel to
Thunderstone

600 gp

And that does cover all of the main shops

Can I have the 400 gp change?

[Savoie Faire]

There is actually very little for higher level players to do at Greatgaunt. Not only does Suzail have a lot of options for dungeoneering and shopping, it has many well built roleplay areas.

I recommend to all players that they make the trip. The only reason 'everybody' hangs around Greatgaunt is, well, because 'everybody' hangs around Greatgaunt.

It's sort of like everyone still hanging out at the local treehouse after they've gone to high school and gotten a car. Or like all the university students hanging out in the local high school parking lot. Sure, there's nostalgia there, but what else? When it's time to move on, it's time.

Several things fall into place when players gravitate to locations suitable for their level:

1) Groups are easier to form, because most folk are in your level-range. You don't have to find OOC excuses to bow out of adventures, or sneak around asking, "Whutz ur lvl?"

2) DM's can more easily create spontaneous adventures suitable to the level of the characters without fear of pwning noobs or having epics take the glory away from the intended audience.

3) Merchants can find characters suitable for the level-range of gear they offer. +3 items for sale in GG? Who there can afford them? It's the perfect place to sell +1 items, though, as Valkur's Roar would be suitable for selling +2, etc.

The only downside to this is, instead of sixteen people standing around cluttering your chatlog with emotes and comments directed at others, you only have those around you who are emoting and talking to your group. Wait, that's not a downside...

Perhaps you can think of one. If so, let me know.

[fred]

Oh... it's this topic again.

Dec 7, 2010 17:59:11 GMT -5 Savoie Faire said:

Perhaps you can think of one. If so, let me know.

I can think of downsides!

Sitting around in the Wheel for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours, when the only people who come by come in to go upstairs, rest, and leave again.

Sitting around in the Five Fine Fish for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours, when the only people who come by come in to go upstairs, rest, and leave again.

Sitting around in the Lecher for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours, when... oh, wait, nobody comes in at all.

Well, you get the idea.

Yes, if other people came to do that, too, it would work. But trying to be a trend-setter is mind-numbingly boring, and it doesn't actually lead other people to follow you because they have no idea where you are. All they know is that you are not where they are.

DMs don't come by and encourage this trend-setting, either. They ignore you, because maybe they come and look to see what you're doing and say, "Oh, person sitting by themselves not doing anything, boring," and leave again. Yes, yes, it is boring, isn't it!

The other towns are, as SF says, full of places with the potential for interaction... if you bring someone with you to interact with. Otherwise, they are empty and sad.

Now, after I've said all that: I agree that it would be nice if we had good ways to find people that didn't involve going to GG. However, to say that going to GG is stupid and we all should leave, well... hanging out in empty inns is sad, depressing, boring and unrewarding, and as long as it stays that way I'm not really inclined to do it very often.

[Teneas]

Could have something come in and burn down GG for a month or longer IG. See who gathers where at that point. Can't do this of course, due to low level quests being there.

Would be oh so nice if we could do that though. My higher level character goes to GG just like everyone else. For a long time though, you would never see my character there. There came a time, much like Fred said, that I spent hours upon hours, upon hours, just sitting a certain forest alone.

This topic springs to life every so often. Unless you make a hard fast rule about what levels are allowed there, or, even move low level quests to a different town, perhaps three different towns, you won't solve this issue.

I say spread the low level quests out to GG, Valkur's, and Suzail!....still bet that people gather in GG though.

[Generiz]

Dec 7, 2010 18:49:47 GMT -5 Teneas said:

Could have something come in and burn down GG for a month or longer IG. See who gathers where at that point. Can't do this of course, due to low level quests being there.

Isn't Suzail being updated to have more low level quests, along with it eventually becoming the starting area? Or did that idea get canned?

[Lokarn]

I believe there is a server rebuild being done, and this topic will be mute [intentional] after it is implemented.

That being said, I'll explain the social reason for what happens.

GG being the begining area is guaranteed to have someone there, so people looking to interact with people will look there first, when they find a people [ again intentional] they will stay, more people will find more people and so on.

Now add in the fact that GG offers a specific reason for high levels to meet lower levels IE the merchant's building... *cough* You can begin to see that there are social anchors that draw pople to GG.

Solution:

Create a PC merchant's building in Suzail, instead of GG.

Have DM events in other locations [I never understood why
GG was on the mind of so many evil entities.]

Reward rp in other cities more often, and or when a DM finds
someone sitting alone in another town, interact with them
even if for a moment.

Unless there is some quantifiable reason for not being where everyone else goes, nothing will change.

But like I said, after the rebuild Justi has said he has planned, this will not matter.

[Teneas]

Dec 7, 2010 19:10:16 GMT -5 Generiz said:

Dec 7, 2010 18:49:47 GMT -5 Teneas said:

Could have something come in and burn down GG for a month or longer IG. See who gathers where at that point. Can't do this of course, due to low level quests being there.

Isn't Suzail being updated to have more low level quests, along with it eventually becoming the starting area? Or did that idea get canned?

I believe you are right. Just not sure of the status as of now.

[highknight]

Dec 7, 2010 19:19:20 GMT -5 Teneas said:

Dec 7, 2010 19:10:16 GMT -5 Generiz said:

Isn't Suzail being updated to have more low level quests, along with it eventually becoming the starting area? Or did that idea get canned?

I believe you are right. Just not sure of the status as of now.

As far as I know, it's still in progress.

[Deleted]

Hawk and I..along with a few others have recently retaken the Market Square in Suzail. We meet up there and roleplay and sometimes head out from there to other locations. Suzail is so much more central, I always hang out there...I drop in the GG like once a week because lots of people are there.

[vangiggsy]

Lokarn makes some good suggestions here, but as he says this may be a mute point with the planned update.

[EDM Neo]

Dec 7, 2010 18:21:12 GMT -5 fred said:

Oh... it's this topic again.

Dec 7, 2010 17:59:11 GMT -5 Savoie Faire said:

Perhaps you can think of one. If so, let me know.

I can think of downsides!

Sitting around in the Wheel for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours, when the only people who come by come in to go upstairs, rest, and leave again.

Sitting around in the Five Fine Fish for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours, when the only people who come by come in to go upstairs, rest, and leave again.

Sitting around in the Lecher for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours, when... oh, wait, nobody comes in at all.

Well, you get the idea.

Yes, if other people came to do that, too, it would work. But trying to be a trend-setter is mind-numbingly boring, and it doesn't actually lead other people to follow you because they have no idea where you are. All they know is that you are not where they are.

DMs don't come by and encourage this trend-setting, either. They ignore you, because maybe they come and look to see what you're doing and say, "Oh, person sitting by themselves not doing anything, boring," and leave again. Yes, yes, it is boring, isn't it!

The other towns are, as SF says, full of places with the potential for interaction... if you bring someone with you to interact with. Otherwise, they are empty and sad.

Now, after I've said all that: I agree that it would be nice if we had good ways to find people that didn't involve going to GG. However, to say that going to GG is stupid and we all should leave, well... hanging out in empty inns is sad, depressing, boring and unrewarding, and as long as it stays that way I'm not really inclined to do it very often.

+1.

[ancientempathy]

This Greatgaunt thing will change in all due time, as some people have stated.

Meanwhile I guess my only advise is:

1.) If you're high level and don't want to be in Greatgaunt but want to interact, then go to Greatgaunt, and offer some type of incentive for people to travel out with you, and come across others in towns that may be boredly awaiting new faces

Some of my PC's share a likeminded quality in how to get people out. "Lets shop for equipment." The hope is that maybe, just maybe, I get other people to appreciate new sections of the server.

2.) More advise is for DM's who are wanting to do plots for younger adventurers. You can stick to that, and maybe do this in Greatgaunt, or, you can find a way to pull them out of Greatgaunt into another area for use. Or at least, have a new area be the "final stop" for them on a quest, that way they remain in say...Suzail, or Espar, etc.

So all in all it takes some initiative and brainstorming. It's understandably not always easy, but best we can all do is...to just do our best!

[kaltorac]

Dec 7, 2010 19:24:38 GMT -5 @highknight said:

Dec 7, 2010 19:19:20 GMT -5 Teneas said:

I believe you are right. Just not sure of the status as of now.

As far as I know, it's still in progress.

More areas for low to mid levels are being added, but ... Suzail will likely not be the main starting point for new PCs.

Its a matter of sheer logistics is all. If Suzail were made the welcome mat for all players, then you'd either have to constantly use OOC messages to describe what levels are allowed in each area lest higher levels blunder into low ones constantly and inadvertly cause spawn kills among other problems. There was also the issue of a low level leaving Suzail and being simply smited by the spawns in most encounters near town. There also remains the simple fact that on any ... ANY ... PW, folk will tend to gather near where the fresh faces appear regardless.

Greatguant will therefore remain the low level focus for now at least. Think of it a safer place to start and get used to FRC and its rules.

There are incentives being built into the module to promote spreading out. Some examples below:

- GG's shops were reset to carry the bare essentials not long ago. This is an incentive to go elsewhere to do your shopping.

- Nearby areas like Skull Crag and the Thayan Enclave will see merchants overhauled at some point. Valkur's Roar is scheduled for a big whopping dose of shops and other updates.

- Next Update here will also see three more areas added to the Bramblewood Forest. One is primarilly a scenic RP area and the others will hold nasty things. Two to three more areas are also slated for this woods in the near future. All in all, there will soon be more areas specifically aimed at the low to mid level characters.

- Two more areas made specifically for low level access, but allow any level to visit without issues regarding spawns are also included in the next update. These will lay within a short jaunt from GG as well.

- The "Hooked Horror" caverns will be relocated farther from GG soon. Something more suitable to lower levels will take its place as well.

There's a ton of other stuff in the works as well behind the scenes. Over the years, a good many areas were removed due to a lack of resources available in the module. Some will return, some will be replaced with completely new areas instead. There are some "known" gaps in adventuring areas for certain levels and these are specifically being targetted in the updates as we can. There's also an ongoing effort to create new and unique experiences and not just add more orcs or goblins somewhere that scale for a certain group of levels. (Although, this being "Cormyr", humanoids are always going to have a big role likely.)

There's also several changes scheduled based on player driven events and the impact certain PCs have had. (Proof that DMs do watch and listen here. )

All in all, there should be less reason nowadays to loiter in Greatguant and continue to be in the future.

[Deleted]

It is definitely hard to get people to relocate to other places. If you are part of a regular group, you might consider OOC agreeing that you will meet in city X or at inn Y every time. If there's a large enough group of you, perhaps others will notice and start to hang out there as well.

[Levedara]

Generally with Mouse(fred) on this one, I've spent a lot of time in suzail alone, espar alone, shallybrook alone.. the cloven shield alone.. and by a lot of time I mean hours upon hours! It /is/ boring!

In my experience If i spent 24 hours in greatgaunt I will see one or two gm emotes from an npc. If i spend 24 hours in espar I will see none.

In greatgaunt I may rp with a dozen people or more, even if briefly, whereas in other areas I may see people that breeze through and try to get them to engage in conversation, but often they're in and out quickly.

[yusef86]

I'll make an open invitation and say if any of Breeann's friends (or people who want to be her friend) would like to converse with her outside of Greatgaunt I'd be happy to meet you wherever you are (assuming it's a safe place she can reach). Just shoot me a tell and, unless I'm already deep in a conversation with someone else, I'll come to you. I would be happy to spend less time in Greatgaunt as well.

[The Supreme Watcher]

We should all have barbecues in Espar.

[lakhena]

Could we change the starting location of Suzail to be the area outside the Wheel, as opposed to the caravan? It might help people stay in Suzail if we started in an area where you could sit and park yourself, as opposed to starting at the caravan, having to move through various screens where no one sticks around, checking the markets, then inside the inn, and then turning around to head back to the caravan to find people.

Yes, I can be lazy sometimes. This is usually why I start in GG. I figure if no one's there, I can then run off to find other people somewhere else quickly.

The other solution, which won't please some people... is to implement a location finder widget for people actively searching for a group. Yes, it's an OOC tool, but it would really help spread people out if people knew where to go to find others to rp with. I'd give the option of taking yourself off the finder (for those who don't want to be disturbed or are in quests). I've seen some widgets that are based on key locations (taverns or markets) and others that just return a general area (i.e. Marsh of Tun). Both have advantages and disadvantages.

The very first server that I saw a location finder on returned the general area. It made pvp hunts that much more thrilling, especially when the hunted purposefully turned the finder on and off to taunt you...

Edit: I thought I would add that I play the game to interact with others, so I have very little patience for wandering around, alone, looking for others to rp with. My impatience partly has to do with the limited amount of time I have to play. So, the easier it is to find people, the better!

[828stingstingneo]

Another possibility would be to block the transition from the Welcome Room to higher levels similar to the blocks on certain Greatgaunt quests. Higher levels would still be able to go to Greatgaunt to meet and RP, but they'd have to travel there after entering the game. This might inspire some of the lazier people to congregate elsewhere, at least right after a reset.

[Savoie Faire]

Dec 7, 2010 18:21:12 GMT -5 fred said:

DMs don't come by and encourage this trend-setting, either. They ignore you, because maybe they come and look to see what you're doing and say, "Oh, person sitting by themselves not doing anything, boring," and leave again. Yes, yes, it is boring, isn't it!

I routinely reward players who hang out in places other than Greatgaunt for roleplay.

If you want a cup of Brownie Brew, for example, you'll never get one in The Regal Griffon. (Sam's cooking is something even brownies can't fix!)

[fred]

Dec 8, 2010 23:08:59 GMT -5 Savoie Faire said:

I routinely reward players who hang out in places other than Greatgaunt for roleplay.

Do you mean to distinguish "players who hang out in places other than Greatgaunt for roleplay" from players who hang out for some other reason? Whenever I'm anywhere in the module, I'm there for roleplay. What else would I be hanging out for? It's why I play a multiplayer roleplaying game!

Oh, well, unless I'm in the Welcome Room, I guess. Then I'm hanging out in a glorified chatroom, goofing off.

I may be misinterpreting what you say, but when you say "for roleplay" it makes me think you mean "I (Savoie Faire) see that person interacting with some other player character." But I wasn't saying that I lacked DM encouragement for that activity (Not that I wouldn't like it!) I was saying that I experience a lack of DM encouragement for sitting by myself, being a trendsetter, hoping that someone will come by... and being very very bored because nobody does.

It is the sitting by myself that I find unrewarding, not the being-somewhere-not-Greatgaunt. Maybe I was unclear about that in my earlier post.

[lucid]

KFC has it, drag people away kicking and screaming. If you want to see crowds in other areas, Mousey just needs to bring a friend with her to be bored with. Then when someone else happens by, there's two people already there, and three's a crowd! Mission accomplished!

I go to many places, and encounter people there only occasionally. Fruidoc's stall in VR is one where I seem to find the most people. But if I am LFG, trying to put a squad together, the gaunt is the only place that really happens right now.

[Savoie Faire]

Dec 8, 2010 23:27:04 GMT -5 fred said:

Dec 8, 2010 23:08:59 GMT -5 Savoie Faire said:

I routinely reward players who hang out in places other than Greatgaunt for roleplay.

Do you mean to distinguish "players who hang out in places other than Greatgaunt for roleplay" from players who hang out for some other reason? Whenever I'm anywhere in the module, I'm there for roleplay. What else would I be hanging out for? It's why I play a multiplayer roleplaying game!

Oh, well, unless I'm in the Welcome Room, I guess. Then I'm hanging out in a glorified chatroom, goofing off.

I may be misinterpreting what you say, but when you say "for roleplay" it makes me think you mean "I (Savoie Faire) see that person interacting with some other player character." But I wasn't saying that I lacked DM encouragement for that activity (Not that I wouldn't like it!) I was saying that I experience a lack of DM encouragement for sitting by myself, being a trendsetter, hoping that someone will come by... and being very very bored because nobody does.

It is the sitting by myself that I find unrewarding, not the being-somewhere-not-Greatgaunt. Maybe I was unclear about that in my earlier post.

Fred, I am not trying to start an argument. You are an exceptional roleplayer and I admire both your play and the way you have influenced the playerbase by your example.

I do routinely engage players sitting around in RP areas in places far from greatgaunt, both with trivial RP awards, (not intended to level the character, more intended to say, 'You were noticed, good job!') and by animating nearby NPC's to interact with the player(s).

The fact that you have this issue is proof that I don't do it enough, and I will attempt to step up my efforts.

[minsafedistance]

Here are my thoughts and suggestion

1: (thought) : We have only limited time online, we will move to a place that has better potential for interaction.

- in this case it is GG


2:(observation): We are allowed to send tells for the purpose of getting people together.

- some of us use tells as messages (so and so NPC has seen me and will tell you I did this)
: ie caravan ticklet sellers saying "a red haired pretty lass in a purple dress got the caravan to marsember"
- some of us just say (I wish to meet you , where should I go?)

2a: (follow on) - we can use tells to avoid going to GG and can still find people for interaction


3: (over crowding) Merchants in GG should move to the merchant hall, put up that sign and do their dealings in the hall. This will remove four or five people at a time from the area. Especially when known merchants are in town.

3a: (advertising) Is there a flashier thing that can be used to help them advertise they are selling?


4: small groups chatting - should look at opportunities to go to a different area for their private chat
(Inn, west, baths, shops etc)

4a : (follow on) - GG is one large map, which numerous areas to chat or be on (campsite, dummy, temple, hills 1, hills 2, hills 3, docks, tree, other tree, road and table and chairs) - what would happen if this was three maps?


5: (GM stuff) - yes groups can easily be targetted in GG.

5a: (Dragging people out) - Can you consider that starting just outside GG means people will leave GG to participate
- also means that people who do not want to partipate, do not need to move
- also means that you will not keep getting blow ins that make it harder to control your event

5b: (moving from GG) - consider if you start in GG that you can then move out of GG. Plot lands in town but then decides, "lets go talk obout his outside town" - ie the area to the West


6: GG is still in martial law - you could start enforcing that strongly and have NPCs throw people in jail. A few such incidents will make people think twice about entering the martial law zone

Cheers
Minium Safe Distance

[ancientempathy]

Wow...MSD had tons of good suggestins, and even reminders. I yet again forgot about martial law.

As for that merchant notification doohiki sign thingie - I think it should be moved closer to the square.

You all know the fence near the law sign? where yago stands sometimes. I think it should be moved there for merchants to activate. Not that I'm descreetly giving the DAS BOOT to Yago from the spot. BTW thank you merchants who stay outside, and not flood the area with your goods - this at least helps a ton and is a considerate gesture!

[minion]

Dec 9, 2010 20:45:01 GMT -5 minsafedistance said:

3: (over crowding) Merchants in GG should move to the merchant hall, put up that sign and do their dealings in the hall. This will remove four or five people at a time from the area. Especially when known merchants are in town.

3a: (advertising) Is there a flashier thing that can be used to help them advertise they are selling?

a thank you for this , and a couple of related suggestions.

after the first group of PC's who trickle in when you announce aloud that you'll be in the merchant building, things tend to die off. i will add my support to the suggestion that the notice of a present PC merchant be moved closer to the square and/or somehow be made more visible.

one other related suggestion to the builders and/or plea to the playerbase... please, please, please do not put the notice device down unless you are a merchant and the last merchant leaving the building. on numerous occasions, i walk out the door only to see the sign down, and who knows how long it was. the suggestion would be to make the sign only useable to those who have a GG merchant license. just say the Council of GG had it enchanted to only respond to those who had the authority and purpose to do it. i know this is yet another tiny little thing that goes way down on the list of "to do" stuff, but... it would be appreciated. people seem to treat that thing like a kid treats a light switch they have just grown tall enough to reach, without understanding (or perhaps caring) how much it impacts those who actually need it.

[The Supreme Watcher]

I've been seeing a lot of people in Suzail the past couple of days. I appreciate it. I plan on incentivizing people coming out of GG to role play with me, whether in the form of good assed role play (modesty, I has it), or the promise of smashing baddies and getting an epic good time (see what I did there? Haha, I'm so sorry).

[DM Justicar - Creator of FRC]

Dec 7, 2010 16:00:04 GMT -5 kottle said:

The merchant discussion brought this to mind. The player of 'Rubus' complains that the module is too big to look at all the items, and I suspect this is becaus of the Greatgaunt focus.

If you base yourself at Suzail you will find that most cites are very close. Eveningstar feels very far when you spend most of your time in Greatgaunt, but from the perspective of Suzail, it is not.

If you make the effort and take a thousand coins with you (more than necessary to allow for mistakes) you can visit almost every (non-elven) settlent on the server. (I think not having a standard Cormyr map adds to the feeling of places being far away, just as a lack of a map in RL does.)

It's also fun to explore, even though it can be dangerous and costly. Sure, it's nice to get that quest xp and gold in places in and around towns, but by travelling and exploring the server becomes less of a confusing mess and more of an well-organized and well-designed whole.

In my opinion, the best parts of the server are not located around Greatgaunt, anyway, so I'll take almost any opportunity to get people away from there. *insert smiley face*

You know, there was a point when the dwarven settlement was more remote than the elven settlement. Just sayin'.