Teleport spell, and how it is portrayed

[Lokarn]

Hello, I often have Wyn standing in GG and often I see the teleport spell cast...

What I'd like to discuss is how players are portraying this item in game.

More often than I can count I have seen players rp this item as if it were indeed a magical item that allows them to teleport people. I do not have one of these, but I do know that the item is really only a "representation of the spell being in your spell book" This is why you can only use it with the proper spell prepared to represent the spell slot used for your spells per day.

I ask casters with the spell to re-think how they themselves represent this spell and more appropriately represent that it is a spell being cast rather than a used magical item.

One of my concerns, and it has never happened, but I do think ahead often, is that would a mage be threatened and surrounded by enemies they would simply teleport away...

However, because the item is actually them casting a spell, I'd hope that if they did wish to teleport away they'd remember that they are casting a spell, and any hostiles within range should get an attack of opportunity on them and a chance to disrupt casting.

So, what do the rest of you think?

[EDM Entori]

Oct 20, 2010 13:35:01 GMT -5 Lokarn said:

Hello, I often have Wyn standing in GG and often I see the teleport spell cast...

What I'd like to discuss is how players are portraying this item in game.

More often than I can count I have seen players rp this item as if it were indeed a magical item that allows them to teleport people. I do not have one of these, but I do know that the item is really only a "representation of the spell being in your spell book" This is why you can only use it with the proper spell prepared to represent the spell slot used for your spells per day.

I ask casters with the spell to re-think how they themselves represent this spell and more appropriately represent that it is a spell being cast rather than a used magical item.

One of my concerns, and it has never happened, but I do think ahead often, is that would a mage be threatened and surrounded by enemies they would simply teleport away...

However, because the item is actually them casting a spell, I'd hope that if they did wish to teleport away they'd remember that they are casting a spell, and any hostiles within range should get an attack of opportunity on them and a chance to disrupt casting.

So, what do the rest of you think?

this has happened under dm supervision and no player was at that time asked to roll initiative or any other action to get the edge up or attempt to counter it with another teleport spell, but with a pvp situation near, the players around the person you speak of, should be on hostile, this causes a concentration check to fire near enemies, and a mage needs a considerable check to pass it, and by considerable, my mage often fails with 32 con.(centration)

[Lokarn]

If a DM has seen this item used in such a way that there should have been an attack of opportunity and didn't see that it happened perhaps they forgot, but I'd be upset to miss my chance to disrupt.

To clarify, I was making an example. I have never seen, or heard of a situation where this has happened. I can't tell if Entori is speaking about an actual event, or a theoretical one either.

[maeglhachel]

Actually the item is even worse than casting a spell.

I've wasted spell slots for enemies being close when I would easily have made any concentration check (in other words it has failed in situations where a regular spell would NEVER have) ... and AOO ... *shrugs and goes to defensive casting mode before teleporting out and ALWAYS makes the concentration check*

But I agree on the RPing of casting ... Tari (since it is just a verbal spell) usually starts to chant while waving her goodbye.
While discussing the topic, though ... is there a flash of light? Or does the teleported person just vanish and materialize elsewhere?

[iangallowglas]

I've not heard of people casting teleport and saying it's because they can use a magic item to do it. Teleport is clearly cast as a spell, and the teleport book is just the representation of the spell being written in a characters spellbook, or being available for a sorcerer to cast spontaneously, not as an actual magic item.

Totally agree with Lokarn on this and I remember the DMs saying this when the teleport spell was implemented on the server.

The spell has always failed for me when trying to cast it in combat. I remember getting a message saying something like "you can't use this item now", or at least something similar to that. I can't remember exactly what the message was, since it's been sometime since I tried using teleport in combat.

[soulfien]

Garistan was threatened once by 3 people. None of them had marked me hostile.

So when I decided Garistan had been there long enough, he cast timestop and then teleport. POOF he was gone.

Thus I fulfilled my obligation to provide casting time for the spell.

[Charon's Claw]

In combat it's impossible to teleport away. The spell just auto fails, so that's no good. With hostile creatures nearby, you're forced to have a concentration check.

Also Teleport is voice component only, so binding someone will not stop it, only gagging them will.

[Lokarn]

Good to know CC.

As for the people acting as if it's a magic item I was referring to people who emote things like *Touches his staff to her and she poofs away*

or any other such action that is clearly not portraying a spell cast such as. *Chants what seems to be arcane words then dissapears*

I have seen a lot of *Touches so and so with staff, or some other action that makes the person teleport away.*

I forget if teleport is a touch spell or at range, I think it's touch, but can't remember.

Anyway, this was my random thought today. Take from it what you will.

[soulfien]

Well, there are a hundred ways to cast a spell. Sometimes a touch from an object IS how a spell is cast. In source books.

There is also a 2nd Edition item (created by my priest) that served as a conduit for a touch spell. Instead of touching a person, the priest would touch the item which was then passed to the person (if they were out of touching range) and the spell would function.

The issue here with teleport is that there is no specified casting method like there are with the other spells so people are becoming creative with it. I like a bit of creativity.

Have fun with it.

[ancientempathy]

Spoilers

Teleport

Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 5, Travel 5
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal and touch
Target: You and touched objects or other touched willing creatures
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None and Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: No and Yes (object)

This spell instantly transports you to a designated destination, which may be as distant as 100 miles per caster level. Interplanar travel is not possible. You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn’t exceed your maximum load. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or small creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent (see below) per three caster levels. A Large creature counts as two Medium creatures, a Huge creature counts as two Large creatures, and so forth. All creatures to be transported must be in contact with one another, and at least one of those creatures must be in contact with you. As with all spells where the range is personal and the target is you, you need not make a saving throw, nor is spell resistance applicable to you. Only objects held or in use (attended) by another person receive saving throws and spell resistance.

You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination. The clearer your mental image, the more likely the teleportation works. Areas of strong physical or magical energy may make teleportation more hazardous or even impossible.

To see how well the teleportation works, roll d% and consult the Teleport table. Refer to the following information for definitions of the terms on the table.

Familiarity: Very familiar is a place where you have been very often and where you feel at home. Studied carefully is a place you know well, either because you can currently see it, you’ve been there often, or you have used other means (such as scrying) to study the place for at least one hour. Seen casually is a place that you have seen more than once but with which you are not very familiar. Viewed once is a place that you have seen once, possibly using magic.

False destination is a place that does not truly exist or if you are teleporting to an otherwise familiar location that no longer exists as such or has been so completely altered as to no longer be familiar to you. When traveling to a false destination, roll 1d20+80 to obtain results on the table, rather than rolling d%, since there is no real destination for you to hope to arrive at or even be off target from.

On Target: You appear where you want to be.

Off Target: You appear safely a random distance away from the destination in a random direction. Distance off target is 1d10x1d10% of the distance that was to be traveled. The direction off target is determined randomly.

Similar Area: You wind up in an area that’s visually or thematically similar to the target area.

Generally, you appear in the closest similar place within range. If no such area exists within the spell’s range, the spell simply fails instead.

Mishap: You and anyone else teleporting with you have gotten scrambled. You each take 1d10 points of damage, and you reroll on the chart to see where you wind up. For these rerolls, roll 1d20+80. Each time Mishap comes up, the characters take more damage and must reroll.

frc.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=lore&action=display&thread=1930

No idea what the official sourcebook definition of promoting a touch-based spell is (teleportation is both personal and touch), whether by your own flesh or through an item to act as a conduit. Personally? Don't care

Note that the teleporation spell on here wont teleport another. This is probably because of limited functions.

[Levedara]

Vorel always applies her verbal triggers, "Moreeedifferent place" and touches anyone that she is teleporting to complete the trigger if it is not herself being sent. As the item removes a spell from your spell pool(memorized spells for the period) i don't see how it would be interpreted as an item allowing it to be cast.

Perhaps when people emote touching someone with their staff or whatnot, it could be considered indicative of the touch required for the spell to take effect when targeting others as it is a touch based spell.

Just my thoughts on that.


CC already covered the combat/hostile part of my response so no need to include that <3

[ancientempathy]

Oops, I noticed I didn't clarify something.

"...the teleportation spell on here wont work on another."

That was very broad. It works on another selected target. I meant, you can't teleport two things (yourself and another), under one use of the spell! Didn't mean to confuse readers.

[minsafedistance]

yes it is a spell that should be *able* to used like any other spell

- you can defensively cast it (DC = 15 +4 + spell level (5) = 24)
so anyone with concentration 23+ can automatically teleport without the Attacks of Opportunity
- if you have combat casting this drops to a concentration of 19

- if you have any version of it memorised you should be able to cast it
ie - any mage with monster summoning V in any level slot
(5th basic, 6 silenced, 9th quickened)
- any sorcerer who has a level 5 or higher level slot available
(use this as RP when I was *Grabbed* the other day, no 5th levels spells left so I *burnt* a 7th to cast it)

If you are a sorcerer with the silent metamagic feat - it technially is only a matter of will to *cast* as long as you have a 6th or higher level slot available

On a side note, sorcerers taking the spell should really not then use the Monster summon V

And yes it *should* be able to be countered like any other spell

And yes countering in NWN is a right pain
I really love to have the option to auto counter and select if I chose to counter - why waste counterspells

The *item* can not be used in combat?

[soulfien]

Also, I would like it if a new spell were chosen to fuel teleport simply because whenever someone specializes in a school that prohibits conjuration (summoning) they can not teleport.

And no, teleport cannot be used in combat- it simply won't work.

[EDM Neo]

I've never liked that you can't cast teleport if any combat is taking place nearby, but I guess I can understand it's to prevent abuses.

Still, a high DC concentration check would be better, I think.

________________________________________________________

Oct 20, 2010 21:14:12 GMT -5 @soulfien said:

Also, I would like it if a new spell were chosen to fuel teleport simply because whenever someone specializes in a school that prohibits conjuration (summoning) they can not teleport.

This makes sense, actually. Teleport is a Conjuration (Teleportation) spell. So, if Conjuration is your barred school, you shouldn't be able to summon things, or to teleport.

[minsafedistance]

Teleport is a summon/conjuration spell

It seems logical that if you are prohibited from summoning that you can not teleport

NWN and bugoware of course got almost all of the opposition schools wrong which does not help as there are three specialist types that have conjuration as opposite (none correct)

Its diviners that should not be able to teleport I think.

[soulfien]

Oct 20, 2010 21:23:38 GMT -5 EDM Neo said:

I've never liked that you can't cast teleport if any combat is taking place nearby, but I guess I can understand it's to prevent abuses.

Still, a high DC concentration check would be better, I think.

What type of abuses would we people be doing if the spell were allowed to be used in combat? Sorry, I really don't mean to sound rude and this may, but you have me confused by your statement. Could you clarify?

what type of use would be allowed by allowing it to be used to escape combat?

Sorry I really am, but I didn't understand.

Oct 20, 2010 21:23:38 GMT -5 EDM Neo said:

This makes sense, actually. Teleport is a Conjuration (Teleportation) spell. So, if Conjuration is your barred school, you shouldn't be able to summon things, or to teleport.

Ah okay thanks

[simondelsolis]

According to 3.5 Player Handbook, Teleport is one standard action. Activation of an Item is also 1 standard action.

Even old school Teleport, Second edition, casting time is only 2 segments. Given the entire time it takes between activation and execution, I don't believe players need to make any additional indication they're casting the spell.

Besides, Casting time for Teleport has always been a quick spell. It's the classic "Wizard with less hitpoints than the paladin's war horse needs to get out of town before the fighter cuts his head off" spell.

I don't see the need to force anyone to take any additional time to represent casting the spell.

[soulfien]

here's an example of what epic mages can do to avoid being killed...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elminster's Evasion is a special, wish-powered, chain contingency that Elminster has active on him at all times, canonically.

It *bamfs* him off to a special extradimensional safehold where he can rest up, or be re-rezzed, if he's ever having a bad day. The *bamfing* also sends a magical message to the Simbul and one other Chosen, telling them that he's had to bail out of something nasty and to get over to the Safehold and reinforce him immediately.

The six trigger points for the contingency are:

1. His death
2. The loss of his mental faculties (sleep, feeblemind, etc.)
3. The loss of his physical faculties (paralyzation, petrifaction, etc.)
4. The destruction of both upper limbs
5. The destruction of his total body volume
6. His uttering the command word (i.e. -- voluntary trigger)
utterance of the word “Thaele.”

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 2nd edition, priests could use Word of Recall to wisk themselves back to their temples to avoid death and rings of Succor and Spell Triggers and the like also worked.

I suppose a very epic mage like Phelzaron or Entori could RP using respawn as a simulation of a spell trigger?

Just a thought.

[minion]

Oct 20, 2010 21:28:59 GMT -5 minsafedistance said:

Teleport is a summon/conjuration spell

It seems logical that if you are prohibited from summoning that you can not teleport

NWN and bugoware of course got almost all of the opposition schools wrong which does not help as there are three specialist types that have conjuration as opposite (none correct)

Its diviners that should not be able to teleport I think.

that depends on what source you're referencing. in 3.5, you simply choose opposed school(s), so there is no "opposing school" by default. Bioware likely picked based on relative usefulness at the time the product was released, i would guess, to prevent one from being dramatically more or less useful than another (not that i believe they succeeded, mind you, just an educated guess).

**minor NWN-mechanics spoiler, in case it matters**

divination is actually the one school they seem to have definitely gotten right (in flavor, at least), as its opposed school in NWN is illusion (trust me, i know this all too well... probably the only epic diviner on FRC ). for purely mechanical advantage, illusion is the best specialty in the game (depending on your combat style, of course), as its opposed school is enchantment, which has a rather pathetic presence in the relative power and number of spells available.

i don't recall AD&D's opposed school structure, though those seemed quite logical to me at the time, so i'm guessing most of us could guess at them fairly accurately. i also don't remember how 3.0 did things, which irks me to no end. going to have to go find the 3.0 PHB i got at the GenCon release of the game and find out (yes, i'm nerdy enough to be irrationally proud of that rather sad little fact; i just wish i still had the character generator demo cd that came with it).

[Deleted]

Teleport is a summon/conjuration spell

It seems logical that if you are prohibited from summoning that you can not teleport

NWN and bugoware of course got almost all of the opposition schools wrong which does not help as there are three specialist types that have conjuration as opposite (none correct)

Its diviners that should not be able to teleport I think.

In PnP Diviners get to chose what school they are going to prohibit.

As for the teleport spell. You can not use it in combat as such. You can not use it while directly or indirectly under attack. Such as being stabbed or standing in someones AoE spell. You can, however, run away and then cast the spell. If your concentration spell is high enough.

~Sio

[probablyamage]

You don't need to be an epic wizard to use a contingency spell. Contingency is a 6'th level spell, and can work with most magics. You do have to be level 15 (I think, unless I read it wrong) to cast teleport as a contingency spell, but that is far from epic. Its less versatile than Elminister's of course, but its still awfully useful. I RP using a contingency spell on my celestial, because in PnP whenever a celestial dies, they are dead permanently. A contingency teleport on death....at least death due to monsters makes more sense than random adventurers happening through the Underdark, or whatever unlikely place you died and dragging you back to a city.

[magius]

about the those who shouldn't teleport cause its a Conjuration.. cause they can't summon.. well isnt that already fixed given they can't take the summon spell and Feed the teleport spell ?.. almost says it all.. how else can the spell be triggerd when he don't have the spell ?

[minsafedistance]

Magius

The actual reason they are complaining is that Bioware got it wrong

But it is correct that since they now have *chosen* conjuration as an opposition school, that they should not have access to teleport

love the game, nit pick about the details

[EDM Neo]

Oct 20, 2010 21:34:14 GMT -5 @soulfien said:

Oct 20, 2010 21:23:38 GMT -5 EDM Neo said:

I've never liked that you can't cast teleport if any combat is taking place nearby, but I guess I can understand it's to prevent abuses.

Still, a high DC concentration check would be better, I think.

What type of abuses would we people be doing if the spell were allowed to be used in combat? Sorry, I really don't mean to sound rude and this may, but you have me confused by your statement. Could you clarify?

what type of use would be allowed by allowing it to be used to escape combat?

Sorry I really am, but I didn't understand.

Belated response, but...

You know how with most spells, it will say "So and so is casting Mage Armor," and then it'll have an animation, and then it'll say "So and so casts Mage Armor," and they finish? And if you hit them inbetween the two, they need to make a concentration check?

As the teleport book is now, all you need to do is use the item. If it weren't in combat, it'd be impossible to interupt its casting in any way, because it "casts" instantly as soon as you click the item, there's no casting time like with normal spells during which you can hit someone.



Maybe the scripting could be changed so that you're teleported a few seconds after using the item, but getting hit during those few seconds would mean you'd need to roll a concentration check or have it fizzle?

[Deleted]

As the teleport book is now, all you need to do is use the item. If it weren't in combat, it'd be impossible to interupt its casting in any way, because it "casts" instantly as soon as you click the item, there's no casting time like with normal spells during which you can hit someone.

You can actually interupt the teleport book as it is currently. All you have to do is force the avatar to change animations. Such as knock them down or kill them. Elvewyn has managed to disrupt one person teleport to date with a finger of death spell. It is very hard to do but not impossible.

~Sio

[soulfien]

Ah thanks, Neo.

And that is correct... it is a very flaky spell. Anything can interrupt the actual teleporting away. Twice I've stood there after teleporting and even received the message "Teleport Successful". Only to find myself still standing where I started with everyone looking at me wondering why I hadn't left.

[Lady Frost]

Oct 25, 2010 13:32:52 GMT -5 @soulfien said:

Ah thanks, Neo.

And that is correct... it is a very flaky spell. Anything can interrupt the actual teleporting away. Twice I've stood there after teleporting and even received the message "Teleport Successful". Only to find myself still standing where I started with everyone looking at me wondering why I hadn't left.

THAT... is very annoying yes... *grumbles*

[Aodhan the Unusual]

It -is- possible to interrupt, but yes, it is very difficult. Also, if done while a creature is upon you (whether you are directly engaged in fighting or the creature has locked on you to attack you), it does affect your concentration check for teleporting. I know this from personal experience. *mutters about damn orcs and spiders*

[epicspire]

Clerics with the Travel Domain should also be allowed to use this"Item"/Spells as a level 5 spell - According to PnP 3rd edition.


is there a way to allow this?