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Post by ancientempathy on Feb 4, 2010 21:50:58 GMT -5
Hey gang, Being in stealth...and sitting in an inn chair...is not cool Being in stealth, in the middle of the road, and walking to a person...is not cool Using stealth as your walk function...is probably not cool Using stealth like a shadowdancer...is not cool Thanks Those are my opinions  |
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Post by ConcreteSequential on Feb 4, 2010 21:54:42 GMT -5
Hey gang, Being in stealth...and sitting in an inn chair...is not cool Being in stealth, in the middle of the road, and walking to a person...is not cool Using stealth as your walk function...is probably not cool Using stealth like a shadowdancer...is not cool Thanks Those are my opinions Ummm, okay, guilty of #3, but my elf walking finger was really tired and he has a negative hide/ms modifier. Of course I was in the middle of nowhere at the time sooo.... My bad, and apologies if that's a no no. |
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Post by ancientempathy on Feb 4, 2010 21:56:07 GMT -5
If you have a negative modifier in your hide and move silently, then you will be seen still, even if stealthed. So no concern |
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Post by ConcreteSequential on Feb 4, 2010 22:00:05 GMT -5
If you have a negative modifier in your hide and move silently, then you will be seen still, even if stealthed. So no concern That's sort of funny in a way. I've always wondered if some DM ever wandered by, saw the PC walking in stealth that way with negative modifiers and said, "what the hell is he doing?" Thanks, that shift finger just seems to crap out after a while. |
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Post by EDM Entori on Feb 4, 2010 22:07:00 GMT -5
if I walk around in stealth and I am in an open road, I only remove my stealth if I am in a 135 degree of a persons vision. if I am not then I do not remove my stealth, because move silently means I can move without attracting attention..
I rped with a bunch of people like this last night.
and I will invite anyone with constructional criticism to send me a pm.
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Post by ancientempathy on Feb 4, 2010 22:12:04 GMT -5
if I walk around in stealth and I am in an open road, I only remove my stealth if I am in a 135 degree of a persons vision. if I am not then I do not remove my stealth, because move silently means I can move without attracting attention.. I rped with a bunch of people like this last night. and I will invite anyone with constructional criticism to send me a pm. Ok, that's not walking straight to a person. That aspect doesn't seem to be bad. Out of sight, out of mind? |
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Post by EDM Entori on Feb 4, 2010 22:17:06 GMT -5
if I walk around in stealth and I am in an open road, I only remove my stealth if I am in a 135 degree of a persons vision. if I am not then I do not remove my stealth, because move silently means I can move without attracting attention.. I rped with a bunch of people like this last night. and I will invite anyone with constructional criticism to send me a pm. Ok, that's not walking straight to a person. That aspect doesn't seem to be bad. Out of sight, out of mind? hm I understand I dislike the pop out infront of your face as well. if in suzial I figure it's ok because of the unseen npc's especially if my character is in conversation I think it's ok not to notice someone. I didn't mean to say anything hostily but it was my first attempt at stealth roleplay, especially in a city. where I was actually seen by true sight and had to rp around it. So I am actually wanted critisim there, because I like to know how my rp is perceived, I like to be a team player. and me rolling stealth checks in front of people pretending to be in a shadow, or a doorway, may not be cool by some. |
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Post by ancientempathy on Feb 4, 2010 22:27:40 GMT -5
Ok, that's not walking straight to a person. That aspect doesn't seem to be bad. Out of sight, out of mind? hm I understand I dislike the pop out infront of your face as well. if in suzial I figure it's ok because of the unseen npc's especially if my character is in conversation I think it's ok not to notice someone. I didn't mean to say anything hostily but it was my first attempt at stealth roleplay, especially in a city. where I was actually seen by true sight and had to rp around it. So I am actually wanted critisim there, because I like to know how my rp is perceived, I like to be a team player. and me rolling stealth checks in front of people pretending to be in a shadow, or a doorway, may not be cool by some. I personally have no true clue on the best way to RP stealth in a city effectively with unseen NPC's, and meanwhile trying to give some sort of accurate immersion out of consideration, towards other character's that may be about So I'd personally default to not being in stealth, as I'm just unsure. A DM's opinion on the matter would be cool. I know one things for sure - if there's to be an influence on me allowing myself to walk under stealth in a big city, then I'd probably stick to doing it during the night.. |
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Post by EDM Entori on Feb 4, 2010 22:29:40 GMT -5
hm I understand I dislike the pop out infront of your face as well. if in suzial I figure it's ok because of the unseen npc's especially if my character is in conversation I think it's ok not to notice someone. I didn't mean to say anything hostily but it was my first attempt at stealth roleplay, especially in a city. where I was actually seen by true sight and had to rp around it. So I am actually wanted critisim there, because I like to know how my rp is perceived, I like to be a team player. and me rolling stealth checks in front of people pretending to be in a shadow, or a doorway, may not be cool by some. I personally have no true clue on the best way to RP stealth in a city effectively with unseen NPC's, and meanwhile trying to give some sort of accurate immersion out of consideration, towards other character's that may be about So I'd personally default to not being in stealth, as I'm just unsure. A DM's opinion on the matter would be cool. I know one things for sure - if there's to be an influence on me allowing myself to walk under stealth in a big city, then I'd probably stick to doing it during the night.. and myself I'm more content to be in the woods .. but the roleplay called for it |
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Post by ancientempathy on Feb 4, 2010 22:32:50 GMT -5
That reminds me
Would it be inappropriate to RP stealth in the woods, as tree-hoping? Going from one tree to another. Risky business, but its good potential. I mean within the branches, up top the trees.
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Post by EDM Entori on Feb 4, 2010 22:51:29 GMT -5
That reminds me Would it be inappropriate to RP stealth in the woods, as tree-hoping? Going from one tree to another. Risky business, but its good potential. I mean within the branches, up top the trees. I'm going to get a picture next time I go flying of a forest.. mostly fur and spruce, some berch..find an elf in that! it's a sea of Green.. seriously the running joke is if we have an engine failure at night we set glide speed and turn the landing light on at 200 AGL (above ground level) if we don't like what we see turn it off and ignorance is bliss. |
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Post by NHmikey on Feb 4, 2010 22:54:56 GMT -5
As a player of a moderately stealthy character I "try" to remain mindful of using it responsibly.
That said, i am sure sometimes I am not as mindful as I would like to be.
I do use the stealth as a walk function sometimes if I can not lower my strength by taking off items so that I am encumbered. Lowering my str is my first option. I will normally only do this however if walking alone where no one else is around. As soon as I see someone I normally take it off well before I am upon them. I had not really considered Ent's position on being out of their direct line-of-sight but it is a valid point.
As for following/stalking...... what I try very hard to do is actually use cover and concealment. I have some pre-set emotes I use and actually do try to stay along tree-lines and rock formation and behind trees. I have lost people before many times trying to do this and keep a safe distance back. I do not like the idea of just walking along 2 inches behind someone in stealth as though it is invisibility.
I try not to walk right down the middle of roads even when out walking alone, i usually stay of road as much as possible.
As for situations like being in crowds, etc.. and claiming stealth, i never do that so I am unsure how to pull it off rp wise either as far as emoting and or/communicating with other players characters. This would definitely require some trial and error.
I have been scolded in the past by other players of stealth characters about not using stealth enough. I have many many times let myself get seen by enemies that I know i could have stealthed by or up to because it just made no sense to use stealth in those situations.
As I said, I "Try" hard to use it responsibility but know that I could do better still.
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Post by soulfien on Feb 4, 2010 23:31:36 GMT -5
Just try to blend in. Constructive criticism If you are carrying a glowing mage staff, do not stealth. If you are wearing all black in a stone town (like Suzail) do not stealth. If you are wearing all pure black in an open field in broad daylight... do not stealth. Just... blend in. That is what stealth is about. That is what that skill represents. Before anyone reacts hostile, this is not a hostile post. Just a gentle reminder that this is an RP server. I do not respond when someone walks up to me and rolls an intimidate check with no RP or says "I need all your gold" *persuade*. There must be RP behind it. Dress for the occasion. It won't hurt Heck, if you do it right, you may not be noticed even if you ARE spotted. |
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Post by EDM Entori on Feb 4, 2010 23:50:53 GMT -5
Just try to blend in. Constructive criticism If you are carrying a glowing mage staff, do not stealth. If you are wearing all black in a stone town (like Suzail) do not stealth. If you are wearing all pure black in an open field in broad daylight... do not stealth. Just... blend in. That is what stealth is about. That is what that skill represents. Before anyone reacts hostile, this is not a hostile post. Just a gentle reminder that this is an RP server. I do not respond when someone walks up to me and rolls an intimidate check with no RP or says "I need all your gold" *persuade*. There must be RP behind it. Dress for the occasion. It won't hurt Heck, if you do it right, you may not be noticed even if you ARE spotted. keep in mind though mechanics, and visuals are not often what is going on.. a glowy mage staff does not necessarily glow, even more so those that do, the DM staff applies negatives to hide to them.. On top of that the camouflage spell literally in it's description changes the colors of the character to blend in. |
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Post by Charon's Claw on Feb 5, 2010 0:32:17 GMT -5
You can set your Drive Mode Forward to "F" or some other key you like, and it's like using "W" to run, except it forces the character to walk even when not in stealth/detect/encumbered/ect.
It's in the Controls option.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2010 1:14:04 GMT -5
I use drive-mode sometimes when I play my elf, but it is still far inferior to detect/stealth/weight reduction walking. The biggest limitation with drive mode is that you cannot type while walking!
I type fairly rapidly, so I usually chatter en route & it's quite frustrating to be unable to do so. I do try to use weight based walking, but my elf has fairly high strength for a stealthy char, so that's no longer possible. This sometimes leads to me stealth walking as I type and then un-stealthing right after. It's important to remember that if everyone in the party is able to detect your char before you go into stealth, then you don't disappear as long as you keep line of sight!
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Post by catmage on Feb 5, 2010 5:02:24 GMT -5
Semi-related, I recall long ago a DM stating that they found characters using hide in areas where their clothes clashed with the scenerey to be a major pet peeve, and implying that they might decide to punish players who do something like that. That was one DM stating their preference and inclination, and I could be recalling incorrectly, but it led me to a question I've had for a while: How does the DM team view items that enhance the Hide skill, and how does the player base?
Many of these items do not explain what they do that improves your Hide stat, but since they are items that provide a bonus, I assume that every item that doesn't state otherwise provides a bonus via magic. To be more specific, I have always treated hide boosting clothing as magically shifting in color and appearance when the hide skill is employed, so a grey cloak in a grassy field shifts to a mix of green, tan and gold, to better hide among stalks of plants. A dark red outfit in the snow briefly matches the white and black of shadows cast by rocks and such. A ring that boosts hiding might bend the light near by just so, and a creature that makes it's Spot check notices the inconsistancy and so breaks the illusion.
Are these allright assumptions? Should cloaks and such always match the color of the surroundings, requiring either RPing Prestidigitation, magical access to loads of dyes that dry rapidly, or having many cloaks which do exactly the same thing but are tailored for different environs? Perhaps they produce a magical field that makes anyone failing the spot check to find them invisible because Mouse is not their problem? Until she breaks stealth to pelt the fools with Mousey Doom.
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Post by qewaye on Feb 5, 2010 5:33:49 GMT -5
Hey gang, Being in stealth...and sitting in an inn chair...is not cool Being in stealth, in the middle of the road, and walking to a person...is not cool Using stealth as your walk function...is probably not cool Using stealth like a shadowdancer...is not cool Thanks Those are my opinions 1) I totally agree with, Isiolith never stealths sitting down unless she's sitting in the shadows of a very large rock or tree. 2) That's why I never walk along the road in stealth. If you're on the road, I consider that being in the open...if you're walking off the road alongside it, there's probably foliage you can emote being moving through. It's just common sense...and walking up to someone in stealth if they are facing you and in your line of sight really is not good. 3) I think a lot of elves are guilty of that, I know I've been walking alone and my fingers have got tired of constantly hitting the A, D and spacebar. I can't speak for human stealthers. Not having a detect mode for elves is a pain but I guess that's what shift click is for. 4) Not sure what you mean.... Catmage...hide items, I see them as being clothes that blend in well, my main character is a forest ranger and casts camoflage anyway(which blends her into her enviroment wherever she is), but she will naturally gravitate towards forest-coloured clothing and is light and silent(i.e no leathery squeaking or metal clinks). I always rp her clothing as being a look that blends into her enviroment. |
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Post by minion on Feb 5, 2010 5:46:01 GMT -5
as opposed to putting words in his mouth, i'll ask something similar to what i believe catmage was getting at: let's say Isi takes her browns and greens to the Storm Horns and walks around in the snow a while. does she/should she either change the color of it to white or simply not use stealth with her wrong-colored clothing? add to this... if it is merely the color of the clothing that helps you blend in, then non-magical clothing should provide the same bonus (whether or not they will IG is hardly something i'm worrying about, merely making the point about magical vs non-magical stealth explanations).
if you're paying tens of thousands of lions for something that helps you hide and muffle sound... wouldn't you expect it to do so via magic? and if it did, wouldn't you expect it to be able to give that magical aid regardless of the appropriateness of the coloration of the gear?
this is, in part, a post as devil's advocate, as i can also see the silliness of using stealth with pitch-black clothing on a field of snow, but if it is magic... well... doesn't magic break the rules of reality? isn't that what makes it "magic?"
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Post by ancientempathy on Feb 5, 2010 9:27:24 GMT -5
My personal take on stealth + magic gear + surrounding region: I'd personally change the clothing color to match the region. I don't think its unreasonable for me to claim, that any stealth specialist wouldn't just rely on their magical goodies and spells to do all their work. That could lead to laziness, and magic can go bad. So, I see the professional accomodating per area they are in. Edit: Examples Include 1.) White clothing in a snowy setting 2.) Black clothing in a dark (cavern) setting 3.) Green/brown in a woodland setting |
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Post by 828stingstingneo on Feb 5, 2010 10:28:27 GMT -5
Elvalith generally avoids using stealth mode in towns, but drive mode is too annoying and even shift clicking eventually bothers me, so out of town she usually stealths unless the party is having trouble seeing her. I'd rather RP with the party than anything else, really, and I realize it can be annoying for the party if you go around a corner and they suddenly don't know where you are. Yeah, elf walking is a dilemma in an all walk server. I find the idea of encumbering yourself and boosting your strength with items when you truly want to stealth intriguing, though. Perhaps it's time to trade some of my elf's equipment. Regarding using stealth like a shadowdancer, I realize that actually taking the class is banned. However, some people try to build simulations of classes that aren't available on the class list. I've always wondered: Is it allowed to RP a shadowdancer on FRC even though you can no longer take the class, or is that just as banned as actually taking levels of the prestige class? Maybe it's okay to use stealth like a shadowdancer in that situation? Yeah, and what's up with the stealth clothing debate? Magic or mundane? Personally, I think mundane is when you craft your stuff to blend in with the environment. Unless people are using TAB to find you, if they spot you on the screen, their character has spotted yours. You truly can hide and blend in even without stealth, I think. Anyway, I've gotten my character so she looks blended in to me. Yeah, if you're trying to stealth you should still use the mechanics, and if the other character makes his spot/listen check to see you but the player still doesn't see you, that's your mundane bonus kicking in. So, I think bonuses on items should represent magic. Also note, having noisy clothing is also already represented by the armor class penalties on skills, so if a mundane item is extra quiet it should have a smaller penalty, not a hide/move silently bonus. That's just my take on it, though. if I walk around in stealth and I am in an open road, I only remove my stealth if I am in a 135 degree of a persons vision. if I am not then I do not remove my stealth, because move silently means I can move without attracting attention.. I rped with a bunch of people like this last night. and I will invite anyone with constructional criticism to send me a pm. The only constructive criticism I can think of for this is what if someone else is stealthing in the same place at the same time? You don't see him because he's stealthed, too, but you're in that 135 degrees of his vision. Better yet, he's also within 135 degrees of your vision, but he doesn't know to unstealth because he doesn't see you either. Oh, the irony! ;D Of course, this would probably happen very rarely, and it sounds like the RP you were going for is the more fun and the more important. |
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Post by soulfien on Feb 5, 2010 14:13:04 GMT -5
My personal take on stealth + magic gear + surrounding region: I'd personally change the clothing color to match the region. I don't think its unreasonable for me to claim, that any stealth specialist wouldn't just rely on their magical goodies and spells to do all their work. That could lead to laziness, and magic can go bad. So, I see the professional accomodating per area they are in. Perhaps this is why true seeing detects stealth  |
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Post by ashaffer on Feb 5, 2010 20:42:19 GMT -5
Many of these items do not explain what they do that improves your Hide stat, but since they are items that provide a bonus, I assume that every item that doesn't state otherwise provides a bonus via magic. To be more specific, I have always treated hide boosting clothing as magically shifting in color and appearance when the hide skill is employed, so a grey cloak in a grassy field shifts to a mix of green, tan and gold, to better hide among stalks of plants. A dark red outfit in the snow briefly matches the white and black of shadows cast by rocks and such. A ring that boosts hiding might bend the light near by just so, and a creature that makes it's Spot check notices the inconsistancy and so breaks the illusion. This is how I also view gear that gives a PC bonuses to their stealth skills… The gear is magical, not mundane, so the mechanics of how this works has nothing really to do with the actual color of the PC's gear. It is totally up to the player if they want to change the color of their PC's gear. Sometimes you move through different types of areas so quickly that it would be a pain to do so, or you don't feel like doing it at all. It's the game engine that keeps track of whether you're successfully stealthing, and has nothing to do with the color of your PC's gear. This isn't PnP where it takes saying a simple sentence to the DM to change what your PC is wearing. NWN has limitations, but we can all use our imagination to look beyond them. Hey gang, Being in stealth...and sitting in an inn chair...is not cool Being in stealth, in the middle of the road, and walking to a person...is not cool Using stealth as your walk function...is probably not cool Using stealth like a shadowdancer...is not cool Unless you're also invisible... ;D
The one thing I see constantly ignored is the fact that stealth is more the art of being unnoticeable, not merely being unseeable. That's why spot, and listen, are the skills that counter hide, and move silently.
How do I know this? When I was in my late teens/early 20's the group of friends I gamed with would go to the local mall, and play a game we called assassins. This game began with everyone being given a set amount of time to disperse, and when that time was up, we "hunted" one another. You successfully "assassinated" someone by sneaking up on them, and tapping them on the shoulder. Then you were considered out. The last person to "assassinate" the second to the last person remaining won the game.
By playing this I learned that stealth isn't about hiding in clothes racks, or other such melodramatic behavior, but by moving in ways that don't draw attention to you, so that you're overlooked. Consider that concept, and then imagine adding the stealth gear that our PCs have access to IG, to envision the true capabilities of FRC's stealthy PCs.
My two cents on True Seeing…
True sight may allow you to "see" a stealthy PC, but it absolutely does not give you any sort of bonus to your detection skills like clairaudience/clairvoyance, or amplify do. If someone notices my stealthy PC with either of those detection spells, or their regular spot/listen skills, then I have no problem with that, but I feel that detecting a stealthy PC via true sight is basically a cheat. If you truly want your PC to be able to detect stealthy PCs, then put points in spot, or listen, like I had my PC do.
"Some modules change the effect of this spell, so it does not allow automatic detection of opponents in stealth, but instead grants a sizable bonus to the spot skill (which helps spot hidden creatures). Some modules also provide a bonus to listen, as this aids in detection, even though listening is not truly part of seeing."
-nwn.wikia.com
I agree with the above nerfing of true sight, especially when I see players RP that their PC, who has a TS up, is suddenly a super sleuth detective, not keeping in mind that TS doesn't make you any more observant than you normally are. So you wouldn't automatically know:
- That the PC is being stealthy in the first place. When you use the PC's floaty name to OOCly identify that it's a stealth based PC you see, and then because of that you assume that they're up to no good without a credible reason. That's metagaming.
- That your companions without TS didn't see them, and you so you draw their attention to this fact.
- That someone stealthing in a city isn't smartly using the unrepresented NPCs as moving cover:
The population of Cormyr is 1.4 million, with the population of the following cities/towns, as of 1372 DR, being:
Suzail (Capital), Population: 45,009.
Arabel, Population: 30,606.
Dhedluk, Population: 936.
Eveningstar, Population: 954.
Immersea, Population: 1,170.
Marsember, Population: 36,007.
Thunderstone, Population: 1,800.
Waymoot, Population: 1,980.
Wheloon, Population: 6,661.
From forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Cormyr
- That someone stealthing in a wild setting isn't using the unrepresented trees/bushes as cover, since these areas cannot have all of them represented, or it would be impossible for your PC to walk in these areas at all.
- That someone stealthing in a house isn't using the available cover to its fullest capacity, and crouching, climbing, or otherwise moving in a way to keep their presence concealed.
- That someone stealthing around spawns isn't waiting to move until the monsters are looking away, or distracted in some other way.
- That the PC you just spotted is actually invisible, as well as possibly being stealthy.
I could go on, and on, but hopefully you get the point I'm trying to make. If not, it sucks to be you.
So to RP that you automatically "see" someone with true sight is not cool IMO, particularly when they don't pass by you closely enough that there is no way for you -not- to have seen them. There are hundreds/thousands of unrepresented NPCs IG, so it is totally realistic for you not to have noticed the stealthy PC, even with true sight on.
Also, after having played a stealthy PC on FRC for over 4 years, I know that when someone can't "see" because you're stealthed, they can sometimes hear you when you say something in talk mode, and that includes any emotes that could be done when actively stealthing, which is why I don't emote around PCs while my PC is stealthed. It's way too easy for someone to overhear something they shouldn't have, then all of a sudden get paranoid enough to cast a true sight, or drink a potion. |
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Post by soulfien on Feb 5, 2010 20:51:39 GMT -5
When I see someone stealthed when I have True Sight on, I treat that person as I would when I see anyone at all near me.
I do not abuse True Sight. Now if I see that person doing something creepy then yes I would divert attention. Like... for instance... Walking up to someone with a knife in their hand... That would warrant alarm.
If someone vanishes using invis and stealth and I am worried they may try to stick me, I'll use True Seeing.
Usually I simply keep an eye on someone who obviously looks like they're trying to hide from me. For example...
I have seen Brin come through a transition I was standing near with about 5 friends. She came through, walked lateral away to the other side of the road and continued to creep by far away.
Now that is obvious stealth behavior so I knew the only reason I spotted her was because of True seeing. But I didn't say anything about it. I merely watched the covert maneuvers and continued on without a worry.
Another time I have seen Isiolith on the road in front of me. She crept off the road when she saw me and moved off into the trees and assumed a position where she could watch me pass. I merely watched the move and would have continued without mention.
TS may allow people to see hidden, but it isn't a sense motive spell. So it doesn't make one a detective, true.
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Post by dirtysloth on Feb 6, 2010 1:25:01 GMT -5
I am unsure as to the players handbook definition of true seeing is
I was led to believe it allows you knowledge of the presence of anyone within range
my only access to this ability at this time is in the umberhulk form
but we all know they don't have true seeing its really tremor sense
assuming it reveals the presence of movement within range much as tremor sense anyone entering the area would be immediately "on radar"
this would not give the character any reason to take notice of the stealthy one in town unless involved in something and constantly monitoring the environment for issues
but out of town being the only thing moving your pretty well spotted
say we are in town though and the one with true seeing is on the look out and suddenly he realizes the group of 4 became 5 then the 2 became 3 and the other 4 again now he begins to take note of the body that seams to drift throughout the crowd noticing the short sometimes stuttering steps and unnatural walking patterns
from there he waits and if the body moves towards in a threatening manner its only natural to take action by whatever means your character chooses
again I say this is working on the assumption that trueseeing works much like tremor sense
I think I remember laughing at someone who tried to hide from a colossal dragon (didn't work too well)
my NWN handbook says
"True seeing- can see through sanctuary and invisibility spells"
I'm pretty sure there is a lot more to it than that
a quote out of the source book for definition would be handy but its to late to go down the road and look
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Post by EDM Entori on Feb 6, 2010 1:37:12 GMT -5
I am unsure as to the players handbook definition of true seeing is I was led to believe it allows you knowledge of the presence of anyone within range my only access to this ability at this time is in the umberhulk form but we all know they don't have true seeing its really tremor sense assuming it reveals the presence of movement within range much as tremor sense anyone entering the area would be immediately "on radar" this would not give the character any reason to take notice of the stealthy one in town unless involved in something and constantly monitoring the environment for issues but out of town being the only thing moving your pretty well spotted say we are in town though and the one with true seeing is on the look out and suddenly he realizes the group of 4 became 5 then the 2 became 3 and the other 4 again now he begins to take note of the body that seams to drift throughout the crowd noticing the short sometimes stuttering steps and unnatural walking patterns from there he waits and if the body moves towards in a threatening manner its only natural to take action by whatever means your character chooses again I say this is working on the assumption that trueseeing works much like tremor sense I think I remember laughing at someone who tried to hide from a colossal dragon (didn't work too well) my NWN handbook says "True seeing- can see through sanctuary and invisibility spells" I'm pretty sure there is a lot more to it than that a quote out of the source book for definition would be handy but its to late to go down the road and look True seeing from PBH 3.5 : You confer on the subject the ability to see all things as they are. The buject sees through normal and magical darkness, notices secret doors hidden by magic, sees the exact locations of creatures of objects, under blur or displacement effects, sees invisible creatures, or objects normally, sees through illusions, and sees the true form of polymorphed, changed, or transmuted things. Further the subject can focus its vision to see the ethereal plane ( but not into extradimensional spaces). The range of true seeing is 120 feet. True seeing does not penetrate solid objects, it in no way confers xray vision, or its equivilant. It does not negate concealment, including that caused by fog and the like. True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises, spot creatures who are simply hiding or notice secret doors hidden by mundane means. In addition the spell effects cannot be further enhanced with known magic, so one cannot use ture seeing through a crystal ball or in conjunction with Clairaudience/clairvoyance/Material component, an ointment for the eyes that costs 250 gp and is made from mushroom poweder saffron and fat. but really just being fair, curious and use rule Number 8!. solves this whole problem |
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Post by EDM Neo on Feb 6, 2010 1:43:29 GMT -5
There've been many, many threads on True Seeing already... my thoughts are basically just that it should be less readily available (maybe nerf duration? remove potions or make them less available or more expensive? something else?), but that other then that, while yes, it sucks for sneaks if someone's keeping themselves under True Seeing 24/7 and can never ever be snuck up on, it's a necessary evil because there are many ways for casters in PnP to detect stealth-based characters that they don't have in NWN.
Also, more practical spot/listen enhancing gear would be quite nice. It's very difficult even for perception-based characters to detect stealth-based ones; I don't think any of the high level sneaks can detect each other. There is a little spot/listen boosting gear available, but it's just plain less useful in normal adventuring situations then gear that boosts hide/MS and dex is.
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Post by dirtysloth on Feb 6, 2010 4:04:40 GMT -5
ok so now we have proper definition
thanks ent
now I must say my spotter in my last example would not see the rogue moving stealthily through the crowd without proper spot check as the spell does not allow such
so what does this spell do on FRC?
obviously it sees through invisibility and sanctuary
apparently also through mundane techniques
I have not seen sanctuary other than fallen PC
does this allow you to coupe-de-grace them?
does the need to overcome sanctuary come into play for any one very often?
and are there any other uses for true seeing
right now its just looking like a see invisibility / spot rogue spell
if the only advantageous bonus of true seeing over see invisibility is a broken ability to perceive hidden rogues I would move to have the spell removed
but two problems
good cleric encounters evil mage
cleric cast sanctuary? very likely
mage needs true seeing so as to not waste the dispel attempt he must make to open up the cleric for others to attack
other problem with getting rid of true seeing all together
I'm sure the script is embedded into the umberhulk and its removal would mean altercations to it and other creatures but for them it is likely working
I thought they used true seeing in place of tremor sense but it seams the ability is built as tremor sense but renamed true seeing
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Post by soulfien on Feb 6, 2010 17:24:28 GMT -5
Look... this has been talked about time and time again. And it always ends with the following in every thread since this game has come out... Hide and Move Silently on NWN is not source. True Seeing in NWN is not source. If you REALLY want to balance this here is what you do... Alter stealth so that you break stealth when opening doors, chests, loot spawns, go through transitions, walk down roads, etc... Alter stealth equipment so that they are on par with detection equipment. Make the items that offer stealth 1 in a million... say... 5 items on the whole server that add bonuses to stealth and make them cost 100,000+ gold. Oh, and remove all other bonuses from stealth gear like Armour Bonus, Dex Bonus, etc... You want a boon to stealth? Wear non-magical gear that only adds to stealth. That's how all the detection gear is. Then nerf True Seeing. This will allow for Camoflauge to aid in stealth just like Clairaudience/Clairvoyance aids in detection. Problem solved and perfectly balanced. As it is now, there are tons of inexpensive equipment in the game that offer tons of bonuses in other things making it impossible to detect the stealth that is in no way source. It cannot be countered by the lack of detection gear. It's not balanced. Plus removing stealth gear would make room for more new content This is a bit tongue and cheek, but the item concerns I mentioned are dead on accurate. Plus, nerfeing stealth will stop all the ninja looting that has gotten me killed more than once- walk into a place and everything is spawned and I get swarmed by it all right off the bat only to find (if I live) all the loot spawns are empty. I am not accusing all the stealthers of this- It's a very select few. |
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Post by Lokarn on Feb 6, 2010 17:58:13 GMT -5
Walking on a road, in broad daylight in stealth mode is absolutely FINE.
Stealth mode is hide and MOVE SILENTLY! Just remember to click it off when someone should see you. In the occurance where both parties are stealthed, walking on the road, oh well, this game is old and imperfect, it's the price we pay for old technology.
Truesight should be fixed to grant see invis, and +30 to spot/listen.
Stealth is broken only for those who want it to be, IE those who use it unresponsibly, these people will allways exist, there is no fix that will be able to compensate without hampering all the people who use it well.
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