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Post by brian333 on Jul 8, 2009 15:22:43 GMT -5
This organization is interesting to me. Would anyone have information on it?
From what I've gathered it's an orgainzation devoted to seeking out and recovering lost elven artifacts and that it requires the PC be a Fighter or Paladin.
I would love to play a knightly questing elf, but I lack the background info.
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Post by Micteu on Jul 8, 2009 17:16:51 GMT -5
Never heard of it, but one thing comes to mind. If you're an elf paladin, you can't worship any elven gods, as far as I know. I believe you have to be one step away on the alignment chart, and I also believe all the elven gods are all chaotic-something.
If you're an elf out to recover lost elven artifacts, that makes it sound like you're pretty dedicated to elves, so you probably won't worship other gods, excepting maybe Oghma, Denier, Mystra, or Finder Wyvernrider. To me, those seem a bit less likely to have elven paladins dedicated to finding elven artifacts, and some can't even have paladins. This Fellowship seems to be a bit of a stretch to me.
Please correct me if I'm wrong on anything here.
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Post by Teneas on Jul 8, 2009 17:24:32 GMT -5
I found little on it, but what I did find mentioned them being fighters or paladins.
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Post by Rook on Jul 8, 2009 17:37:46 GMT -5
If you look at the Paladin Orders thread under Lore of the Lands you will see FRC's list of approved paladin orders. Each order lists which god it is dedicated to. There are gods listed for humans, dwarfs, halflings and gnomes, but not elves. An elf paladin would have to worship a foreign deity. The DM team would need to see source material supporting an elven paladin of an elven god to allow it.
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Post by Teneas on Jul 8, 2009 17:53:27 GMT -5
Paladin: As with monks, few elves become paladins because of the alignment requirement. Those who do choose this path often worship a deity associated with some other race, because the elven gods include no lawful good deities. Some follow Vandria Gilmadrith, even though she is a lawful neutral deity, since many aspects of her dogma appeal to the paladin’s nature. Such a career choice often effectively severs an elf paladin from his community because he tends to seem rather staid.
Like elf fighters, elf paladins are most effective with ranged weapons, and they tend to avoid melee combat. For alternative options for the elf paladin, see the elf racial substitution levels on page 155.
From Races of the Wild source book pages:36
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Jul 8, 2009 23:22:47 GMT -5
It sounds very similar to the Olin Gisir (pg 21-25 from Lost Empires of Faerun). The major difference being that Olin Gisiae are elves and half-elves who are literally (in elven) "secret keepers" chosen from the ranks of arcane casters and wizards to protect secrets better kept from races that have shorter memories than the elves. Anyway, just throwing that out there because when you explained what these guys were all about it prompted me to grab the source book and see if this was the same group/prestige class. Man I wish we could have more prestige classes on NWN1 without resorting to another hak. **Edit** I feel like I have read of this group in some sourcebook and it is killing me! If anyone has some source on this I would love to hear of it.
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Post by DM Justicar - Creator of FRC on Jul 8, 2009 23:25:57 GMT -5
This organization is interesting to me. Would anyone have information on it? From what I've gathered it's an orgainzation devoted to seeking out and recovering lost elven artifacts and that it requires the PC be a Fighter or Paladin. I would love to play a knightly questing elf, but I lack the background info. Who says you can't form this group informally once you have the background information you need? If the information doesn't turn up then I say you write your own edict and start an informal group of elven adventurers with a common cause. Sounds pretty cool to me. On second thought I guess we already have that! But... you could be a seperate group. Just don't expect a guild!
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Post by Micteu on Jul 8, 2009 23:37:24 GMT -5
And if I remember a similar ruling with monks, I believe you can have a paladin order that isn't listed, but it won't give you multiclassing privilages. What say the people in charge?
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Post by Munroe on Jul 9, 2009 3:52:02 GMT -5
And if I remember a similar ruling with monks, I believe you can have a paladin order that isn't listed, but it won't give you multiclassing privilages. What say the people in charge? There are paladins of gods other than those listed on the paladin orders page, but they don't have multi-classing options. Only paladins of the gods listed have paths to multi-classing available. Paladins of other gods are less common than paladins of gods that actually have paladin orders. A paladin must worship a god who is LG, LN, NG, or Sune (who is the singular CG exception). All paladins must be LG regardless of whether their deity is LG, LN, NG, or Sune.
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Post by kaltorac on Jul 9, 2009 6:52:59 GMT -5
The "Fellowship of the Forgotten Flower" is an order of Knightly elves, half-elves and some rare humans referred to in several old 2E sources. It's membership constisted of primarilly fighters, fighter/mages, elven paladins(which are a unique version of paladin there and had unicorns as mounts), paladins, cavaliers and champions of Correllon(which were recommended as NPCs only as they served a temple or community directly and not traipsed all over the wide world). Their goal was to find long lost elven artifacts and return them to their people when possible or to stay and guard them from others in cases of a powerful magic that could not be moved (IE... portals, mythals and whatnot).
What I've never yet seen is where this order is referrenced in FR sources. All the old modules, Dragon Magazine articles and various other sources all point to the Greyhawk Campaign aspect of Corellon where he does indeed have paladins and some human followers. (In Greyhawk Campaigns; the head of any Pantheon may have followers outside of their own supported race. So there, Corellon could even be served by a half-orc cleric ... if your local PnP Dungeon Master smoked enough crack.) Since FR-sources are pretty clear on what deities support paladins .... I'd think the "Fellowship of the Forgotten Flower" would be nonexistant in an FR campaign.
As for the OP's original idea of a questing elf ... I think a NG fighter or NG fighter/CoT would fit the bill nicely, especially if Evermeet was their home of origin. I'd find a handful of pointy eared buddies and form a selfnamed adventure group and "borrow" the name "Fellowship of the Forgotten Flower" or just make my own unique name.
*The Olin Gisir that Justicar referred to are members of a secret society and rarely can even recognise another member due to their tight compartmentalisation. They also seek to hide or protect rather than uncover or return ancient artifacts whenever possible. A goal opposite in most ways to what the"Fellowship of the Forgotten Flower" promotes.
Now to sidestep with a question for the lore masters here. I myself have always disallowed PCs to play Paladins of Mystra. Mainly because I've never seen a source stating that they are anything more than guardians in service to a temple and only quest when when performing a direct service for that temple and then returning. Therefore making them ill-suited as PCs. Add to that that most players I know in NWN just want to be uber paladin/sorcerors for the old exploits it granted and choose Mystra hoping they'll get to pull it off. But, are there references to Paladins of Mystra as viable PCs ... or just as temple guardians which I've found?
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Post by Rook on Jul 9, 2009 7:59:03 GMT -5
I found one post online that said the Fellowship of the Forgotten Flower is referenced in Demihuman Deities under Corellon. I don't have that book, but I'm sure DM Munroe does. Perhaps he would be willing to look there.
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Post by Vlad on Jul 9, 2009 8:14:06 GMT -5
I found one post online that said the Fellowship of the Forgotten Flower is referenced in Demihuman Deities under Corellon. I don't have that book, but I'm sure DM Munroe does. Perhaps he would be willing to look there. That is true, it is page 103: "Outside of elven homelands, the most frequently encountered agents of an elven knightly order belong to the Fellowship of The Forgotten Flower, a loosely structured organization dedicated to the recovery of lost elven relics from long-abandoned elven realms."
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Post by Dachshund on Jul 9, 2009 8:17:12 GMT -5
From Demihuman Deities:
Affiliated Orders: Corellon is the divine patron of many knightly orders, many of which claim to trace their heritage and membership hack to the Time of Flowers. Such orders are typically composed largely of crusaders, warriors, and wizards (particularly fighter-mages), but their composition has varied widely over the millennia and from culture to culture.
Notable orders in ages past have included the Knights of the Golden Wyrm, the Blade of Sahandrian, the Fey Staghorns, and the Swords of the Seldarine. On Evermeet, the Wings of Yathaghera, the Knights of the Alicorn, the Weavers of Bladesong, and the Vassals of the Reverend Ones are all pledged to support the Protector in the defense of the Green Isle.
Few orders have remained on the mainland of Faerun since the Retreat began in the Year of Moonfall (1344 DR), but of those that remain, the Swords of Evereska are the most notable for their unwavering defense of that alpine vale. Outside of elven homelands, the most frequently encountered agents of an elven knightly order belong to the Fellowship of the Forgotten Flower, a loosely structured organization dedicated to the recovery of lost elven relics from long-abandoned elven realms.
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Post by Munroe on Jul 9, 2009 8:26:57 GMT -5
I found one post online that said the Fellowship of the Forgotten Flower is referenced in Demihuman Deities under Corellon. I don't have that book, but I'm sure DM Munroe does. Perhaps he would be willing to look there. The only material I have that is older than 3e is one book related to Masque of the Red Death (that actually contains no game mechanics at all). To answer Kalbaern, Mystra doesn't allow her paladins to take sorcerer levels in any order of hers that I've seen. Deity Do's and Don'ts, a web enhancement for Faiths and Pantheons, lists the Mystra paladin order Knights of the Mystic Fire. They may multiclass freely as wizards and the Guild Wizard of Waterdeep PRC (from Magic of Faerun). Knights of the Mystic Fire: guild wizard of Waterdeep (Magic of Faerûn), wizard. This group of paladins often accompanies other members of the church on quests to locate lost hoards of ancient magic. The church draws upon their ranks for the leaders of temple guardians. |
The general heading for the section states that the orders it lists are for multi-classing freely. Paladin Orders The following table lists other known holy orders of paladins, the deity they hold as a patron, and the character classes open to paladins of that order for the purpose of multiclassing freely (orders of paladins that do not allow multiclassing freely, such as the Swords of the High One—paladins of Azuth—are not listed). Some deities have more than one associated order of paladins; these are listed sequentially. Not all paladins have to be associated with an order, but only those that are part of an order can multiclass freely. Other lawful good, lawful neutral, and neutral good deities that are not listed here can have paladins, but there are no known paladin orders for those faiths (in effect, paladins of those faiths are uncommon enough that rarely are there enough to band together and form an order). |
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Post by kaltorac on Jul 9, 2009 8:29:10 GMT -5
Good to know .. looks like I've some reading to catch up now.
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Post by brian333 on Jul 9, 2009 10:09:01 GMT -5
I found one post online that said the Fellowship of the Forgotten Flower is referenced in Demihuman Deities under Corellon. I don't have that book, but I'm sure DM Munroe does. Perhaps he would be willing to look there. That is true, it is page 103: "Outside of elven homelands, the most frequently encountered agents of an elven knightly order belong to the Fellowship of The Forgotten Flower, a loosely structured organization dedicated to the recovery of lost elven relics from long-abandoned elven realms."This is the often cited line I keep finding, and in several cases it was stated that Elven Paladins were among their ranks. It got me thinking about the creation of an elven paladin, I mean, who wouldn't want to look down his nose at an elf the way elves look down their noses at everybody else? Then I ran into the deity roadblock. At first I had assumed Corellon had paladins much the way Sune does, but I could not find anything which supported that assumption. Then I actively searched for Lawful- or Neutral Good elven deities... So, absent an elven patron for this obviouly elven oriented order, I felt it best to get a little more source info before trying to pull this character off. It'll be hard enough dealing with players as an elven paladin, I surely don't want to have to fight the DM's too! My original concept was a questing moon elf from Evereska, (He'll say he's from the Gray Hills, nobody needs to know about the valley, they won't be going there anyway!) I was planning to portray him as a paragon of the elvish virtues with stereotypical elvish snobbishness. I expect he'll get along swimmingly with the Hullack Elves! Anyway, thanks for the info. If more is found, don't hesitate to point me to it. P.S. Justi, If we ever nail down this source info you can make an elf and be my squire! I need somebody to carry all that heavy Shiney Armor (R).
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Post by Dachshund on Jul 9, 2009 10:19:48 GMT -5
Make him a Neutral-Good CoT/Divine Chamption instead?
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Post by kaltorac on Jul 9, 2009 10:20:17 GMT -5
Ranger/CoT or Fighter/Cot would be the next best thing to an elven pally.
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Post by Dachshund on Jul 9, 2009 10:50:17 GMT -5
A Ranger/CoT that follows Corellon would probably be the closest thing.
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Post by Vlad on Jul 9, 2009 11:59:37 GMT -5
To me a Bladesinger would be the closest. Since the PrC is not available here i would say a fighter-mage. Corellon is the greatest fighter-mage in the multiverse! He IS the fighter-mage. IMO, it is the best choice for a member of such order. After all, elves, in the D&D Basic set, were all fighter-mages. From Races of Faerun p41: "Sun elves favor the traditional paths of the elven folk: fighter and wizard."That could fit "a paragon of the elvish virtues with stereotypical elvish snobbishness". But, from what i read in the Demihuman Deities sourcebook, the Seldarine and the elven churches are far more tolerant than the elven society in general. And that does not get along well with snobbishness i think. Also, Evereska is known for its tomb guardians (Player's guide to Faerun). They track down and slay grave robbers. Most of them are ranger/sorcerers if i remember correctly. I don't think it would fit well the concept of "Paragon of the elvish virtues" though. Anyway, I like your idea.
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Post by Dachshund on Jul 9, 2009 12:05:05 GMT -5
Ranger/Sorcerer/CoT???
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Post by Rook on Jul 9, 2009 13:05:08 GMT -5
I remember a player in the past who RP'd her elf bard as a bladesinger. Just throwing it out there as another option.
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Post by brian333 on Jul 9, 2009 14:17:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the ideas, but in my haste to play with the concept I made an elven paladin. He sits in the vault now waiting to be born into the world, but he's lacking a deity!
I can't imagine the FotFF as anything but an elf-centric faith, so an elven paladin of a human god wouldn't be likely to be a member. I ran across the reference while reading up on Evereska; therefore, my bio and backstory are centered on a moon-elf from Evereska questing for elven relics.
Anyone interested in pursuing some of the other ideas of class combinations for followers of this organization should feel free to do so: I wouldn't want to try to claim ownership of such an obviously fertile idea. In any case, there will be other ideas. I've not even taped into all of my multiple personalities for new character concepts, so this one can wait until I get something more concrete in the supporting material upon which to base him.
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Post by Teneas on Jul 9, 2009 15:23:32 GMT -5
Would say that a CN elven fighter/CoT would really be ideal imo. CN simply because he would be more free to act against those that claim/hold the elven artifacts, and think little of the problems that taking it could bring. More like an Indiana Jones of elvenhood. Then you would be free to worship any of the Seldarine, though I would think that Corellon would be the one to go for of course. Just me two leaves *elven money*
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Post by Munroe on Jul 9, 2009 15:57:04 GMT -5
Would say that a CN elven fighter/CoT would really be ideal imo. CN simply because he would be more free to act against those that claim/hold the elven artifacts, and think little of the problems that taking it could bring. More like an Indiana Jones of elvenhood. Then you would be free to worship any of the Seldarine, though I would think that Corellon would be the one to go for of course. Just me two leaves *elven money* I always heard that iron pyrite was elven money. They adopted it because dwarves said it was valuable. (You think elves would dare damage a tree for leaves?!) :-P I always thought of Indy as more CG than CN. He does kill people on occasion but they're usually Nazis or mercenaries working for Nazis.
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Post by Teneas on Jul 9, 2009 19:33:45 GMT -5
Would say that a CN elven fighter/CoT would really be ideal imo. CN simply because he would be more free to act against those that claim/hold the elven artifacts, and think little of the problems that taking it could bring. More like an Indiana Jones of elvenhood. Then you would be free to worship any of the Seldarine, though I would think that Corellon would be the one to go for of course. Just me two leaves *elven money* I always heard that iron pyrite was elven money. They adopted it because dwarves said it was valuable. (You think elves would dare damage a tree for leaves?!) :-P I always thought of Indy as more CG than CN. He does kill people on occasion but they're usually Nazis or mercenaries working for Nazis. Yeah, thought about posting an edit. I wasn't saying Indy was CN, but that perhaps the elven pc we were discussing would be abit more like Indy. Just thought that CN would serve a pc that did this well, as they would have to run into many situations of humans, dwarves, hin, etc, having the items that they were looking for. CG would just get in the way of retrieving said items, as some that had them, just simply would not let them go. But you are right. Indy is CG.
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Post by Munroe on Jul 9, 2009 21:58:57 GMT -5
I always heard that iron pyrite was elven money. They adopted it because dwarves said it was valuable. (You think elves would dare damage a tree for leaves?!) :-P I always thought of Indy as more CG than CN. He does kill people on occasion but they're usually Nazis or mercenaries working for Nazis. Yeah, thought about posting an edit. I wasn't saying Indy was CN, but that perhaps the elven pc we were discussing would be abit more like Indy. Just thought that CN would serve a pc that did this well, as they would have to run into many situations of humans, dwarves, hin, etc, having the items that they were looking for. CG would just get in the way of retrieving said items, as some that had them, just simply would not let them go. But you are right. Indy is CG. Well, just because someone won't let something go, that doesn't mean you have to kill them for it. If the character is CG and trying to do this thing for the elven people, they just have to come at the issue from a different angle than if they're CN.
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Post by jensmann on Jul 9, 2009 23:43:38 GMT -5
My suggestion would be a Fighter/Cleric/CoT.
not much cleric levels needed, one is enought, but you need to take it on a level you would get a regular feat (3,6,8).
With 13 strenght and 13 Charisma my idea could be completed.
You would have to learn Powerattack before taking a cleric level, then with the cleric level and the feat you gain on this level, you can take Divine might.
just my two cents.
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Post by Teneas on Jul 10, 2009 8:25:00 GMT -5
Yeah, thought about posting an edit. I wasn't saying Indy was CN, but that perhaps the elven pc we were discussing would be abit more like Indy. Just thought that CN would serve a pc that did this well, as they would have to run into many situations of humans, dwarves, hin, etc, having the items that they were looking for. CG would just get in the way of retrieving said items, as some that had them, just simply would not let them go. But you are right. Indy is CG. Well, just because someone won't let something go, that doesn't mean you have to kill them for it. If the character is CG and trying to do this thing for the elven people, they just have to come at the issue from a different angle than if they're CN. hehe...who said anything about kill. Indy was a glorified tomb raider. Killing was rarely done. Edit: Could as well be CG, the CN is just my personal opinion of how this char would be played. I am biased a bit toward CN elves of course. But I just see CG not being able to pull off every mission as well. CN would grant some wiggle room in regards to dealing with issues that would arise.
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Post by brian333 on Jul 10, 2009 11:45:23 GMT -5
I appreciate all the character build ideas, but I was looking for an excuse to play an elven paladin and this order looked like it might be a way to do that. Given that it doesn't provide me with a suitable background for an elven paladin, I'm not really that interested in the FotFF itself.
On the other hand, I would like to see some of these character builds in game. FotFF could make an excellent background for many different types of characters, from Rogue/Rangers to Cleric/CoT's.
So, sooner or later I'll find something to give my paladin idea a try, but until then I can't wait to see you in game playing your version of a questing elf!
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