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Post by Grozer on Oct 1, 2005 20:19:01 GMT -5
Heh..I guess we have. This personal debate will have to be resolved elsewhere, but for now, to be a Banite or Silver Shield, is to be a target.... (Yeah, like that's a big change.....) I thought it was related to PvP... anyway this was not personal for me... it was in character... I guess I misunderstood.
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Post by StabbingNirvana on Oct 1, 2005 20:27:42 GMT -5
tyrran paladins better be targets too ... or im doing something wrong ...
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henny
Proven Member
No Comparison. Period.
Posts: 218
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Post by henny on Oct 2, 2005 15:13:12 GMT -5
Posted by Grozer on Today at 9:02 On the contrary, the Shields had not been very active against the Banites previous to Hrothgar's death, because they were seen as more nuisance than real threat and there were more important things to take care of. Are the Banites feared? Hardly.... However, the news of Hrothgar's torture and death, and the condition in which his remains were found, has finally pushed the Shield to action. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction....this is the reaction. I hope by this post Lady Sharita, you mean the non-paladin members of the Shields right? Since a Paladin would never strike out in revenge without the sanction of their Lord, King, or God. After all if you strike out against a person and group and by your actions cause that group to reciprocate and a single innocent is harmed, that would make you indirectly responsible, yes? And we know that to his or her god, even the slightest mistake can cost a paladin their god's blessing, right? Correct me if I'm wrong but a paladins duties are to protect the innocent, not avenge their deaths right? That sort of things is for the crazy sensei-ninjas out at the monastery to do. You know the ones I'm talking about? Like that one with the really big sword? Talk about compensating for a deficiency somewhere else! LOL! Just Kidding Laurk! Here cmes the red dragons now! Anyways I hope not to attack but to provoke self examination and thoughtful verbal intercourse with this statement to all of us (myself included) would be paladins.
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Post by Kolfrosta on Oct 2, 2005 16:24:25 GMT -5
Ok, first things first....
Lady Sharita didn't post anything on this thread, but I did. I consider the guild, adventurers registry and the regal griffon as the IC forums areas.
Second, there are things happenening in game and in the Shield forums that not everyone sees. Please do not assume Sharita would act in vengeance, and she has advised the Crown of recent actions, and did not take any action until she received approval from the Crown ...
If a paladin takes an oath to defend those of the realm, then that is thier duty, to do what they can to defend the folk of the realm. Look at what the Banites have been doing, they tortured and killed Hrothgar, they captured and tortured Padrin and Louis, they kidnapped Aeris, and extorted her into their service by threatening to kill her fiance Aelrik if she did not comply. Do these actions not sound like a threat to the innocent? How do you go about protecting the realm? You seek out the threats and take care of them.
Other IC discussions you have missed....> That there is a preferrance that they be brought to justice, to be jailed or what not for the rest of their lives, if the court deems it just. We also discussed that it would be unlikely that any of the Banites would surrender, so we are prepared to fight...and bring thier dead carcass in to be revived and held for trial.
So, please, do not judge on the small amounts of information that is to be found on the forums....there is usually much more going on in the game than gets posted.
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henny
Proven Member
No Comparison. Period.
Posts: 218
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Post by henny on Oct 2, 2005 16:28:55 GMT -5
Like I said I was not attacking anyone for there actions. I was trying to encourage self exam and I'm sorry you personally took offense at this. ****EDIT************ FIN
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Post by Kolfrosta on Oct 2, 2005 16:31:09 GMT -5
Heh...wasn't offended...just saying what's going on on this side. ;D
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Post by StabbingNirvana on Oct 2, 2005 16:41:57 GMT -5
um ... sorry buddy. but youre wrong. as i play a tyrran paladin (and tyrrans go by 'an eye for an eye'), if an innocent is killed, it is the paladins duty to avenge the person's death by creating a punishment worthy (and a worthy punishment is to kill the murderer). though, as there is law about in cormyr i (speaking as if i were the paladin) would have to report that i killed the murderer to government officials, and most likely bring the corpse to them as well. hope this doesnt confuse anyone
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Post by Laurk on Oct 2, 2005 16:49:38 GMT -5
I think the problem here is, when people read others writing, they tend to imagine an angry tone. Here is an excersize. Next time you read anothers post, wether it be for or against your opinion, picture it being said by a pleasant fairy god mother-esk voice, happily, and giggly. Then, no one will ever feel attacked no matter what it says. Lets give it a try shall we? When you read the example below, picture..... happy.
"Big sword compensating for something!!?? This crazy, blood thirsty ninja won the three legged race all by himself! And I have the chaps to prove it! So you can take THAT!"
See? Wasnt that easy? For extra credit, try adding a sing songy rythem to it. Then, even the most hate filled post will feel as gentle as a babbling brooke.
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henny
Proven Member
No Comparison. Period.
Posts: 218
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Post by henny on Oct 2, 2005 16:53:21 GMT -5
Laurk, we all know you cheated that three legged race but putting a halfling down your pants..(eeewww)
as for the rest of the enlightened and non agressive discussion. *shrugs* I give up. ~sings~ like manshin .. I mean like a fairy traa laa laaa
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Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 703
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Post by Manshin on Oct 2, 2005 16:58:05 GMT -5
It is important to keep in mind that though NPCs are static and dont actually interact much with players, they should be RPed as people. The point of that is this: The Zhentarim is an invading army at the gates of Isinhold. They mean to conquer, rape, and pilage. The Banites should be viewed as an extension of that army. Their goals are to usher in the rule of Bane. Now that proof has been gathered about who the worshipers of Bane are, naturally there would be a man hunt sanctioned by the crown to bring them to justice. I cant speak to the individual ideals of all the many various paladins and their gods, but those who's directive include protecting the weak and serving justice upon the wicked would rally to the banner against the banites. It isnt about revenge, its about protecting the realm and the thousands of terrified commoners who live in fear of a merciless and blood thirsty enemy who means to conquer. Thats my thoughts.
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Post by Grozer on Oct 2, 2005 17:35:05 GMT -5
It is important to keep in mind that though NPCs are static and dont actually interact much with players, they should be RPed as people. The point of that is this: The Zhentarim is an invading army at the gates of Isinhold. They mean to conquer, rape, and pilage. The Banites should be viewed as an extension of that army. Their goals are to usher in the rule of Bane. Now that proof has been gathered about who the worshipers of Bane are, naturally there would be a man hunt sanctioned by the crown to bring them to justice. I cant speak to the individual ideals of all the many various paladins and their gods, but those who's directive include protecting the weak and serving justice upon the wicked would rally to the banner against the banites. It isnt about revenge, its about protecting the realm and the thousands of terrified commoners who live in fear of a merciless and blood thirsty enemy who means to conquer. Thats my thoughts. Well I dont want to continue to take this thread off topic but let me say I disagree. I believe that is what people WANT to believe about Banites and the Zhentarim. I wont try to quote the various books,chapters and pages, but the zhentarim/Banites do NOT torture/kill/pillage for fun, there is always a purpose to each action, unless it is a reaction. There are sects of the zhentarim that are resorting to social warfare and references are made to zhents controlling areas through economics and trade. In the current timeframe they are more concerned about shoring up the fragmented power base. Look I am not here to say they are good guys, but military action is not the only way to usher in change.
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henny
Proven Member
No Comparison. Period.
Posts: 218
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Post by henny on Oct 2, 2005 17:45:01 GMT -5
here here! bravo! well said
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Post by Grozer on Oct 2, 2005 17:49:29 GMT -5
If a paladin takes an oath to defend those of the realm, then that is thier duty, to do what they can to defend the folk of the realm. Look at what the Banites have been doing, they tortured and killed Hrothgar, they captured and tortured Padrin and Louis, they kidnapped Aeris, and extorted her into their service by threatening to kill her fiance Aelrik if she did not comply. Do these actions not sound like a threat to the innocent? How do you go about protecting the realm? You seek out the threats and take care of them. I just have to smile, because this is one perspective and of course I would expect it. ;D Hrothgar came after us... had he been successful I am sure there would be no problem with any Banite being tortured for information. Since torturing is such a crime, when are you going after Manshin for torturing several Banites. Ok I'm laughing at that one, since I know its probably ok to do that. Louis you say? The same Louis that was threatened to be executed unless he leave his god? Hmm, ok again pulling someone away from an evil god is the goal, I guess that means the means justifies the end. As far as Aeris... that is so wrong I have no idea where to start. Aelrik accepted the duel, after he attempted to get in Ranan's face! OK Ranan baited him a bit by hitting on Aeris but any non-Banite could have done that. He didnt have to agree to a duel, he wasnt forced. Once on the battlefield, Aeris offered herself to protect Aelrik. She made a deal. Since that time Aeris has been seen walking around Isinhold, so she isnt kidnapped. Anyway, I guess misinformation is to be expected... it works well to keep the common folk from following a better way...
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Post by thogrimur on Oct 2, 2005 19:13:54 GMT -5
As far as Aeris... that is so wrong I have no idea where to start. Aelrik accepted the duel, after he attempted to get in Ranan's face! OK Ranan baited him a bit by hitting on Aeris but any non-Banite could have done that. He didnt have to agree to a duel, he wasnt forced. Once on the battlefield, Aeris offered herself to protect Aelrik. She made a deal. Since that time Aeris has been seen walking around Isinhold, so she isnt kidnapped. Darn right he accepted the duel. Anyone who comes up and insults me, hits on my lady in such a crude fashion...going to the point of implying her infidelity (and so on)...and I am going to get in your face about it. Aelrik has no concept of 'levels' or 'hit points' - and at the time knew nothing of your actual identity, ability, or affiliations. He acts in character even when as a player I realize he is in way over his head. My character may not be thrilled with the way things turned out, but as a player I enjoyed the RP - two totally chance encounters led into much more. I agree on one point though - to say Aeris was 'kidnapped' isn't exactly accurate...perhaps 'extorted and manipulated into service' would have a better way to phrase it. But then you are arguing semantics. The Shields have a duty to uphold. The Banites have their 'agenda'. Pour the two groups into a mixing bowl and watch the ensuing conflict begin! I guess I am not quite getting why any of this information is necessary to discuss in an OOC forum though. Personally, I like to learn and deal with information in game. Or at least keep it to an IC forum. *shrugs* In a last ditch attempt to turn the conversation back to the actual intent of the thread - Permission based PvP is no longer required. As far as flagging from a screen away - I will abide by the rules of the server of course, but when I see "you have entered a full PvP area" upon transition...that is all the warning I need. If given a vote it would be to relax the 'screen away' flagging requirement. Um...yeah...all this is in a sing-song fairy godmother voice too!
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Post by soulfien on Oct 2, 2005 22:19:29 GMT -5
Interesting comment even though it is nothing more than lies spread by a group in support of a Crown which is failing its people. Crom, Gariston and Jerico are not Sheilds then? After his will was broken, even Hroth admitted he was working with you, so I consider him a Sheild as well... not to mention your other allies who have come after us. I'm still wondering what you meant here. Garistan is a shield, yes, though I don't think he's done anything more than swear to kill visitant. Though, by her donning a hood she's too disguised for him to ever accomplish that. My computer overheated and died 2 months ago which is why I haven't been on. I'm trying to work up the money to build a new one, but with all my other expenses, it's gonna take a while.
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Manshin
Old School
FRC2 Build Team
Posts: 703
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Post by Manshin on Oct 2, 2005 23:53:28 GMT -5
Ranan, a note about the Zhentarim. In most cases you are correct, they "normally" wage war through economic embargos and shady dealings. However. In FRC, if you listen to the NPC chatter and follow the plot, the Zhents are an invading force meant to conquer. It may not be normal to their attitude (according to source material), but, it is the way that things in Isinhold currently are according to the DMs who made FRC, and thats the bottom line. Their sudden aggressive manuver has a lot to do with how weak the crown is, and what they have to gain from the conquest. Keep in mind, the crown is on it's knees after a lengthy and difficult siege in which the king himself was killed. And there is still the dream that many of us (Including Manshin) shared about Banes dominion in Faerun. This is a powerful motivator for my character and the others who shared this dream. Any planning, hostile or not is going to be viewed as down right terrifying to anyone who saw a future where the sky was red, and Isinhold was in flames. So anyway, as far as the current state in Isinhold goes, the Zhentarim are here to rape, pillage, and plunder. That means if you want to play a Banite... keep it on the lowdown if you dont want PvP. However, even if you dont, I personally am not going to go around killing newbs unless I have no choice (i.e. Louis Cypher has yet to show himself, and I dont want to get ganged up on.) And as a responsible player, I will NEVER grief anyone. If I get you, lay low for a while before you come back into the plot. And I will do the same. Thats the most important thing.
If you die in PvP, dont rush out from the fungi plane back into the fray. Sit out for a while. Just like war simulation, if you get hit, you are out until the next game.
Also, I dont think the PvP is all that out of hand... at all. I have fought Visitant once. Ranan once. Tenchi and Louis once, and one large group of several of them. Every single time, win or loose, I had an absoulute ball. Nothing is more exciting or tense than a good PvP. Just dont take it seriously. If you loose... big whoop. Dont gripe about if it was fair, or if there was lag... just roll with it. Its all part of the game. Another way to think of it is like this. You all fight monsters. Many of you have no problem fighting the same mosters over and over and over... isnt PvP funner? A challenging fight both mental and physical against opponents who can actually think? Sometimes the lead up to the fight can take months and months. At what point, does NWN get any better than that?
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Post by DM Grizwald on Oct 3, 2005 1:47:42 GMT -5
well if i may suggest something. not saying that pvp isnt fun or anything, but i think we should settle down and let some plots develope. *thinks* ya thats about all i got to say
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Post by Munroe on Oct 3, 2005 4:42:00 GMT -5
*Imagines a plane full of myconids and their mushroom kingdom. ;D*
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Post by Grozer on Oct 3, 2005 11:22:38 GMT -5
Well said... you always seem to have a way of putting something that makes me think "damn why the hell didnt I think of that!" You're detroying my ego man! Ranan, a note about the Zhentarim. In most cases you are correct, they "normally" wage war through economic embargos and shady dealings. However. In FRC, if you listen to the NPC chatter and follow the plot, the Zhents are an invading force meant to conquer. It may not be normal to their attitude (according to source material), but, it is the way that things in Isinhold currently are according to the DMs who made FRC, and thats the bottom line. Their sudden aggressive manuver has a lot to do with how weak the crown is, and what they have to gain from the conquest. Keep in mind, the crown is on it's knees after a lengthy and difficult siege in which the king himself was killed. And there is still the dream that many of us (Including Manshin) shared about Banes dominion in Faerun. This is a powerful motivator for my character and the others who shared this dream. Any planning, hostile or not is going to be viewed as down right terrifying to anyone who saw a future where the sky was red, and Isinhold was in flames. So anyway, as far as the current state in Isinhold goes, the Zhentarim are here to rape, pillage, and plunder. Ranan experienced that dream soooo long ago, I admit I (Grozer) forgot about it. You are correct, the current environment is somewhat different from source material. That means if you want to play a Banite... keep it on the lowdown if you dont want PvP. However, even if you dont, I personally am not going to go around killing newbs unless I have no choice (i.e. Louis Cypher has yet to show himself, and I dont want to get ganged up on.) Agree and I think I have done this, only showing myself when necessary and to advance some stories.
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