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Post by Spooks on Apr 23, 2005 5:19:43 GMT -5
This was created for me to make my rants about things that you do IC... but really can't, or have trouble explaining from an RP perspective...(such as jogging to the merchant to sell loot while you are "Near Death"). I probably wouldn't have even started this due to laziness but I just couldn't resist once I was about to post a rant on the Item creation subject in the Ideas and Suggestions section... SO I copied and pasted it to here... feeling that this be a more appropriate place to discuss it... along with everyone elses experiences and how they come to terms with them.... SO here we go:
Healing Kits... they arent magical yet... they are also the hardest to RP in the middle of a dungeon on the fly. You cast a healing spell... their wounds magically heal and they says thanks, so then you continue on. Healing Kits though aren't as easy. I have seen countless times when (even myself) have just walked up to an ally in melee combat and used a Healing kit on them to save them. Now at the same point I have probably just entered melee combat and can't type a reason for why he just regained health. I don't really have a point to this but it's just always been something that bugged me in the back of my head. If I can then I will send a message saying something along the lines of..."Stand still...*pulls of the greave and applies salves and a bandage to his gash before it gets infected(disease) then replaces the greav plate*". But how can you do that in combat? And how could your character even EXPLAIN doing that while the person they are healing is in the middle of a fight? They are fighting for their life, so obviously they cant stand still while you wrap a bandage around their chest... I mean you can't explain things like that... but you do it anyway because you don't want them to die.
Feel free to post experiences related to Healing kits, or anything else that falls into this category. But be sure to post your take on your situation and how you handle it if at all.
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Gusty
New Member
Posts: 58
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Post by Gusty on Apr 23, 2005 5:52:43 GMT -5
Hit points in are one of the least understood phenomenon. They are more then just blood loss and wounds.. It has to do with exhaustion, morale, and blood loss and wounds... It could be that one of the things in the healing kit is a refreshing glass of water in addition to bandages... some sort of stimulating pain killing fungus salve. I have personally been jogging and by the end of my run I am near death... I am still running though. And I am not bleeding to death. If Hit points only had to do with bloodloss and damage taken from weapons then after every fight you would have had all the flesh carved off of your bones... That is not what is happening. Thank you for giving me the opprtunity to discuss hit points further I have been waiting for my moment. - Gusty
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Post by Spooks on Apr 23, 2005 7:02:07 GMT -5
Yah I can understand the whole pain killing thing. I explain Clothos Wholeness of Body as her like popping a shoulder back into its joint, or jabbing a point on her body to restrict blood flow from escaping through a wound. ( Did you see Resident Evil: Apocalypse? She went down a shaft and caught her finger on a vent... she she hit the bottom she rolled and you saw her finger bent in completely the wrong way... she grabbed it, cracked it back into place, grunting in extremely muffled pain and it was all better for the most part.[Thats also why she is totally like a lvl 10 monk/10 Ranger}) And I didn't mean that they were "Near Death" from jogging, only that after an arduous adventure, rather than at least going to rest or quaffing a healing potion, they head straight to the Fletcher to sell their bounty... Which would make sense, being as you are either wounded in some way or exhausted.
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Post by Talus on Apr 23, 2005 7:06:34 GMT -5
You will almost never see my character stumblin to the fire really injured. Mainly because I figure that Pain is bad, and if you have the means to stop it you probably would, wouldn't you. Plus I have seen one to many random attacks on Isinhold to walk around with almost no hit points. Just kind of my thoughts on it.
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Post by Talus on Apr 23, 2005 7:28:34 GMT -5
I am sure it is mentioned else where on the Forums, but just a reminder. If I don't tell you my name or you don't hear someone else call me by name, you don't know my name. *nudge nudge* Just been seeing a rise of this lately.
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Post by MithrilBlade on Apr 23, 2005 12:14:19 GMT -5
One issue is also how could someone survive for example a hit from weapon master that deals 100 damage in a critical hit, normally it could kill like 200 commoners, how this one hero can just take the blow and get extreme pain but not die?
This is the morale thing I assume, althought in DnD there is also factor of death from massive damage, basically if you hit a hero and it deals more than 60 damage there is chance for instant death same way as FoD or any death spell.
I had a weapon master like this once and usually I roleplayed that he cleaved his axe right through the other creature's whole body cutting it like half or taking a leg within the blow.
This doesn't exist in NWN thought, so it sorta makes things difficult sometimes to RP.
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Post by Mr. Baboon on Apr 23, 2005 12:43:38 GMT -5
Speaking of criticals... am I the only one who gets impossible numbers on there criticals? I.E., I deal 1d8 damage, x2 critical, and get 5 damage total. How is that possible?
Or with a Handaxe, I deal 1d6+2 (str/weapon spec), x3 crit... and deal 11 damage.
these are impossible numbers. Is it something in the NWN engine..?
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Manshin
Old School
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Post by Manshin on Apr 23, 2005 13:19:02 GMT -5
A high level adventurer's HP are a complete representation of her skill and stamina... or wind. She can roll with the punches, or make difficult parries, but in doing so, she is getting tired. (A fight between Drizzt and Artemis is a great example.) I dont RP Manshin as being anything more than bruised and tired until he reaches at least badly wounded. From there it is minor flesh wounds until near death. At this point, he is so exhausted, that he cannot defend himself well enough to avoid enemy attacks and is in danger of being killed. So by that token, it's not so unreasonable to drag your equipment into the shop, and finish taking care of business before you finally can go rest. "Near Death" might be a little extreme for shopping though, I agree with that. As for healing kits, whats to say they aren't magical? It could be there is healing salves in them that must be applied topically. It's basically a healing potion that you dont need to drink, thus you can give it to others. The skill comes into play by how well you know how to use it. With a potion, all you have to do is aim for your mouth, but with a kit, you have to know how much and where to apply the kit for best results. I know in the discription it say's they aren't magical, but keep in mind, what they discribe in the PH and what NWN has made them to be are totally differant. There is no reason to try and RP something that instantly invigorates and heals wounds as a mundane item. I myself choose to "pretend" that they are magical.
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Post by darkvoid on Apr 23, 2005 13:50:21 GMT -5
So then would it be more accurate to refer to healing spells as 'restore stamina' spells?
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Post by prophyet on Apr 23, 2005 15:19:44 GMT -5
Well, as long as healing kits can restore as much as 20 -50+ hps in one round of use, or cure any poison or disease instantaniously, you would have to assume that there is a magical element in the kit that a trained healer can use.
Non-magical healing kits would only increase the amount of HP you gain through a good nights rest, or cure a common disease after a good nights rest.
But this much like so many other RPed and metagamed aspects of the server can only be resolved by a definative stance by the DM crew. We can all argue our points and say how we rationalize it, but it is meaningless in the broad picture.
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Sabremoe
New Member
Sabre-noob
Posts: 26
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Post by Sabremoe on Apr 23, 2005 15:30:25 GMT -5
As for Healing Kits, you only get to auto roll 20s when you're not in combat, during combat you make an actual roll.
Come on, if you're going for realism, you'd eliminate the dice rolls altogether!!!! *holds himself back from a rant on quiting NWN and go for RL*
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Post by Munroe on Apr 23, 2005 18:50:57 GMT -5
I know this is an aside to the topic but x2 and x3 on criticals is not actually a multiplier of the number rolled, it is a multiplier of the time to roll the dice. So 1d8 damage, x2 critical could be 1d8=3 and 1d8=2, 3+2=5 and 1d6+2, x3 could be 1d6+2=3, 1d6+2=4, 1d6+2=4 for 4+4+3=11.
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Post by Lord_Raven88 on Apr 23, 2005 19:09:39 GMT -5
A high level adventurer's HP are a complete representation of her skill and stamina... or wind. She can roll with the punches, or make difficult parries, but in doing so, she is getting tired. (A fight between Drizzt and Artemis is a great example.) I dont RP Manshin as being anything more than bruised and tired until he reaches at least badly wounded. From there it is minor flesh wounds until near death. At this point, he is so exhausted, that he cannot defend himself well enough to avoid enemy attacks and is in danger of being killed. So by that token, it's not so unreasonable to drag your equipment into the shop, and finish taking care of business before you finally can go rest. "Near Death" might be a little extreme for shopping though, I agree with that. As for healing kits, whats to say they aren't magical? It could be there is healing salves in them that must be applied topically. It's basically a healing potion that you dont need to drink, thus you can give it to others. The skill comes into play by how well you know how to use it. With a potion, all you have to do is aim for your mouth, but with a kit, you have to know how much and where to apply the kit for best results. I know in the discription it say's they aren't magical, but keep in mind, what they discribe in the PH and what NWN has made them to be are totally differant. There is no reason to try and RP something that instantly invigorates and heals wounds as a mundane item. I myself choose to "pretend" that they are magical. The Spycraft/Star Gate d20 system has a cool way of dealing with this, basically your Con represents how much damage your body can take, (wound points) then they have a thing called Vitality which increases each level like HP. Vitality represent minor cut, scrapes or close calls. when you're out of Vitality any damage goes to your wounds, or if you score a crit it bypasses vitality and goes on the wound points. Crits are something to be feared in Sprcraft/Star Gate as no matter what level you are you could still die with an unlucky hit. ;D
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Post by Munroe on Apr 23, 2005 19:21:49 GMT -5
Originally I modified my previous post but there was a post while I was modifying so I'm moving it down to a new post instead.
Massive Critical exists in Neverwinter Nights but is not enabled on the default difficulty setting. Moving the difficulty slider up a notch should enable this functionality, as well as the functionality of healing potions not always giving maximum possible health, among other things. I personally prefer the risk of Massive Damage, and the de-maximising of healing potions.
Here's the entry from the Player Handbook (e3.5, page 145) regarding hitpoints.
The page does on to say that at 0 hitpoints you are disabled but conscious and at -1 to -9 you are unconscious. At 0 hitpoints your movement speed is decreased and your choices of actions are limited as some may cause you to fall unconscious. If your hp has been reduced to less than 0 but you have been stabilised and are regaining hp, you are no longer unconscious but disabled as though at 0. Any time your hitpoints are -10 or lower, or your constitution reached 0, you are dead.
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Post by hoffman900 on Apr 25, 2005 22:07:14 GMT -5
So then would it be more accurate to refer to healing spells as 'restore stamina' spells? No because for lower level character it represents real wounds. And yeah, I'd say mortal wounds (for chars beyond 2nd or 3rd level) are only the las 8 or 10 HP or so. Everything else is experience/savyy/technique/whatever. Else mid-level adventurers (or higher)) would look like openend pomegranates after each battles... Face it, a bunch of regular orcs against a 10th level figther wont leave little nicks here and there if they hit. The fighter will dodge and roll and only the last few hits will actually draw blood.
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Post by soulfien on Apr 30, 2005 13:08:13 GMT -5
I want to know why wizards and druids walk around with figurines of wonderous power. Just where DO their companions/familiars come from when you summon them? The Astral plane? I think they should always be with you.
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racestark
Proven Member
R-E-A-D-A-B-O-Okay!
Posts: 241
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Post by racestark on Apr 30, 2005 13:21:53 GMT -5
Companions are easy. When I get outside of town I just whistle and it comes 'running up' to me. Familiars could do the same or hide in their master's robes, depending on the size of the familiar. There are several ways, I'm sure, everyone uses to explain this. If I use the caravan, well, obviously my companion can't come with me. (It is a wolf, after all, and I don't think it would be able to keep up with the caravan nor do I think the caravan would take it along). But, if I don't travel too far, say from Isinhold to Skull Crag, I just wait a while before whistling for it. But hey, that's just me.
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Post by soulfien on Apr 30, 2005 14:13:20 GMT -5
it's the death that's hard to explain...
The fact that they can die and be brought back. Bioware coded it along the rules os a figurine of wonderous power. If the creature tied to the figurine dies (returns to the astral plane) they cannot be brought back until they have rested- 1 or 2 days.
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Post by Munroe on May 1, 2005 2:48:34 GMT -5
Actually, a wolf could probably keep up with a caravan easily. Caravans do not travel fast, per se, and, like a wagon train, they probably have people walking along beside of them and dogs trailing behind. The realistic advantage of a caravan is not so much that it is faster but that it is safer and it has a means to transport more than a person could carry. In come areas (ie downhill) a caravan probably is a bit faster, but then in some areas (ie uphill) I would imagine it is a bit slower, especially with the burden on the work animals.
As for the distance, wolves have high endurance. It is their primary hunting ability. A wolf doesn't overpower its big-game prey with surprise, or sheer power, it overpowers its prey by running it out. That means the wolf (or normally group of wolves) chases its prey until the prey collapses from exhaustion. It's impressive.
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Post by soulfien on May 4, 2005 22:19:19 GMT -5
yes, but that only goes so far. Druid walks up to a town and dismisses it's dire wolf.
Druid then jumps down a well in the center of town and calls his dire wolf.
Impossible to RP that.
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Post by Munroe on May 5, 2005 4:31:29 GMT -5
Same thing is true for a shadowdancer's shadow. Technically, if a shadowdancer dismisses his/her shadow or it is killed, the shadowdancer can't summon a shadow for a month.
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Misha Aogail
Old School
Player of: Torian Burrfoot, Misha, Whisper, and Oriana Gant
Posts: 324
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Post by Misha Aogail on May 5, 2005 8:29:24 GMT -5
Problem with a Shadowdancer's shadow is, well... It's a shadow and everyone wants to attack it. Good news is, if done properly, will stun people too much to actually do much more than stare. Bad news is, you're labled a necromancer for a while until people forget...
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Post by Munroe on May 5, 2005 21:55:48 GMT -5
Well, nobody said your shadow has to "be with you" all the time either. It could be waiting nearby (aka not summoned). Since it unsummons when you rest anyway, it is kind of hard to have it engine-wise with you all the time.
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Misha Aogail
Old School
Player of: Torian Burrfoot, Misha, Whisper, and Oriana Gant
Posts: 324
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Post by Misha Aogail on May 5, 2005 22:44:20 GMT -5
Oh I know... But my shadow friend is about as bad as a new born kitten... It looks all deadly until you realize it's so darn weak!
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Post by soulfien on May 8, 2005 0:07:47 GMT -5
Techinally, summoning shadows is just that. You actually summon it. Druids and wizards don't summon theirs according to PnP. Also, a shadow can hide in your own shadow if people would agree to ignore it. God, PnP is so much better than NWN Here's another one.... How can a pc carry 1000 arrows and 100,000 gold coins without being encumbered? where does the PC even carry that suff?
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Post by Munroe on May 8, 2005 2:42:25 GMT -5
Soulfien wrote:
From Dungeon Master's Guide (3.5e) page 195:
So yes, a shadow is summoned by the shadowdancer, but it is not a daily summon. It is summoned once, and after that it is a shadow companion that brings about an XP penalty should it be destroyed or dismissed. The XP penalty for destroying or dismissing a shadow companion is the same as the XP penalty sufferred by a sorceror or wizard when its familiar is killed, the difference is that a shadow companion cannot be raised (since it is undead) so the shadowdancer may summon a new one after 30 days, whereas a sorceror or wizard has the option of having his familiar Raised or Resurrected, or waiting a year and a day to get a new familiar.
As for druids and wizards not summoning theirs, that's true. The PHB says a druid may start play with an animal companion and if they dismiss it, they may take another after a solid day of prayer in a ritual. The PHB is less clear on wizards and sorcs. It says they may "obtain" a familiar.
Personally I think it is poor naming of the ability that caused this whole mess. If it were called "Shadow Companion" instead of "Summon Shadow" then Bioware would have implemented it better in NWN instead of treating it like a summon spell. Notice also the shadow companion's alignment should match that of its shadowdancer and shadowdancer has no alignment restrictions. This is an exception to the Monster Manual entry for shadows, which says all shadows are Chaotic Evil. Bioware messed that up too and made the shadow you summon CE. In NWN it really should be treated almost exactly like the Animal Companion ability druids and rangers get except instead of picking which animal you want, you would just get a single entry with a shadow that matches your alignment and you would have the opportunity to name it. Like the Animal Companion and Familiar, it should persist through rests.
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Misha Aogail
Old School
Player of: Torian Burrfoot, Misha, Whisper, and Oriana Gant
Posts: 324
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Post by Misha Aogail on May 8, 2005 8:33:30 GMT -5
Now to test the HD thing for my shadow...
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