Perma Dead or not

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

SO I have run into a unique situation, one I never expected to find. I have always disliked the idea of permadeath, as it can cause serious stress, when not needed. However I have come to a realisation in light of a few events. Since the last silveryn quest, I have been doing nothing but roleplay (ok i spent 1 or two days with the assassins and maybe made 2 trips for gold). Every night I spend about 2-3 hours weaving complex plots and trying to form Hroths dreams and desires. At this point, in my opnion, hroth is almost a fully developed character. The only thing left to do is see his plans through (of course I will continue to play him once his plans are seen through, but as for goals I had for him, i have to come up with new ones). However, since these plots are so complex, many times I wonder what would happen if hroth were killed and poof i respawned and was back in the world. I know one particular character has a LOT of information that hroth does not want him to have, and hroth would normally just kill him and he would disappear. From my metagaming stand point, I know this character can just respawn and we are right back to square one. So I have come to decide that the only way I can deal with situation, if it happens to me, is to permanently kill off hrothgar, assuming it was RPed. Now I am not suggesting that other players have to do the same thing, as they may have many more plans for their characters outside of the one event that would warrant permadeath. So it comes down to this: if hroth is killed in roleplay concerning events that would be much harder to play if he came back to life, I will permanently kill him. So this is to say, if he is out adventuring and dies, I will respawn, or if he is PvPed at random or without roleplay that is signifcant, he will respawn.

The reason I bring this topic up is because I wish to know how the community views this situation. How would you (as a player) handle a situation in which if your character died, the RPing would be "easier" (I only say easier because I dont know what words to use)?

So Justicar, I apologize if hroth gets killed off before you finish .

[prophyet]

I for one have always been for permadeath, or even just a prolonged death while Matinus forms a search party to find Heirichs corpse or part of it for Resurrection.

With out the fear of Perma-death, so many angles of RP are just non-existant.

But for perma-death to be on option on this server, it will have to become a lot more RP driven and far less hack and slash.

[Manshin]

One way to do perma death... in a manner of speaking would be to do it in such a way that the person killed suffers complete and total amnesia. Thus any kinks in anyones plans that person may have had are non-existant. Of course players who are no longer allowed to play off thier past may wish to just.. not respawn. Here is the trick, it doesnt make a lot of sense for high level players to be knocking of newbies all the time for fun. a PVP with that sort of consiquence should be between equals. If a high level player wishes to perma death another, he should have to find an assassin of close level to do the deed. I will have a hard time tossing my character if Raven offs me, but on the other hand, if I loose a duel to a player who I could reasonably beat.. thats a differant story.

[manyasone]

Hm...

Well, I'm a roleplaying freak and if I am caught up in a plotline where there's an assassination attempt on one of my characters or something like that, I would reluctantly accept a permi-death because it wouldn't really make sence if someone payed an assassin a large sum of gold to kill a person, only to have the target pop back up the next day perfectly fine...

BUT, a death in a non-RP situation (such as one brought on by a marauding orc horde) is not one that should be permi, because trying to incorporate too much of a PnP game (where if you die, you're dead unless someone's gonna raise you) into an online video-game atmosphere is a very difficult and sometime very unsuccessful thing to do..


Of course, knowing me, the second this acctually happens in game I'm going to take it back and say that I wanna respawn. ;D

[Kharn597]

Yes, the prisoner we had arrested in jail and then a cyric planar creature killed him in the jail cell, its annoying that he comes back. Maybe the amensia thing need to be taken into effect for a longer peroid of time.

I remember reading some time ages ago, you could only die x# of times based off of your constitution. I think that was second ed though. I think something where you die in RPing situations, unless there are healers in the area, you need to be permeantly dead or have amenisia. THen you have to play your character not remember everything or one of the dms whatching the situation will help you remake your character with a new look and name btu go back to the same level, equipment and money.

For instance, if someone kills Raven permeantly or the courts of comyr sent him to death, it would seem more realistic if he can't come back. It would add a new RP factor to everything. Then he can play as another priest maybe of another god or a new cyric priest that arrived to the area and would have to rp getting to know people agian.

This is just my ideas on the topic and 2cents.

[Lord_Raven88]

Who's Hrothgar ;D

He can't be that important if I've never met him

Anyway I think perma-death 'can' be good for the reasons given above.

If perma death was brought in it would be nice to be able to buy an amulet of life (or something similar) which allows you to respawn at a temple, and has the effect of the Raise Dead spell.

Otherwise soloing would be very dangerous (which isn't a bad thing) and if you can't find a group with a cleric in it, then at least you have a 2nd chance if you do get killed.

Naturally it should cost more than a raise dead scroll, and maybe you would have to be of a compatible alignment.

Also maybe these are only availble in large cities, so that it would sometimes be inconvient, as you'd have to journey back to where you fell.

Just my thoughts anyway.

[hoffman900]

I think Quadhund's position is a fair compromise between perma-death and never-ending resurection.

Adventuring and random PVP gets a "temp" death, while truly important RP situations that warrant it get perma-death.

That way you can have a sens of realism without having to create new characters every week... Because, you know, people do die. If characters are eternal, clerics will have to apply for welfare soon...

[prophyet]

I will be the first person to say that his character is dead.

Hierich accidentally bumped into Raven in the plains. Rather than be brought in, Raven chose to fight and beat the hell out of Hierich. No way to come back from that. As much as I loved him, I can no longer play Hierich.

Raven gets all the bragging rights.

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

Ok Prophyet, I wasnt saying that if you are killed in PvP that that automatically makes you permadead (even if you are out in the middle of the wilds). You can always RP that some poor peasant came across your body and dragged you back to town and revived you. I was more talking about a situation where, say Raven hired an assassin, and this assassin hunted you for a long time, eventually following you out into the wilds and laying a trap. Once dead, he took your body, dismembered it, and fed it too wild animals. Now there is no way to respawn from that. The only way to come back from that would be to have a group of friends go searching for your character, possibly using a cleric to commune with the dead, and then petition your deity to let you come back to life. This would be a long and arduous and would probably need some DM intervention. This thread was just supposed to discuss death in intricate plot lines, not just PvP. I guess if you feel that Hierich really doesnt deserve to come back, then you can leave him dead. But I will say one thing, he may not be permanently dead. I know he employed a few people and those people may want to get payed and may come looking for him. We will see though. I think though if you expect that every character you kill in PvP not to come back, you will be very mistaken, as there are always to RP the situation.

[DM Richard (Retired)]

He just doesn't want to pay you and thought death might get him out of it.

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

*shakes his fist* Damn he is clever ...

[theseeker]

i see it as two champions of faith fighting..it was a honour battleing you , you fought hard and well."till swords part" knight of the morning lord

[louminator]

Keep in mind that a DnD game played on NWN is nothing like playing it with PnP. The game engine is simply programmed to work a specific set of functions whenever certain conditions are met. Without any human involvement, it does not exercise judgement calls, like fudging dice rolls. It is an unforgiving and uncaring environment which shows neither compassion nor remorse, and it cares not for story-lines, character development, or roleplaying. It simply performs however it is instructed to do.

But on the human side, it is important for us to know that our characters are mortal. Without the threat of mortality upon our characters, no amount of 'roleplaying' is going to eliminate the notion inside us that death is nothing to be feared, as much as simply avoided for the nuisance factor. For this reason, I feel that the possibility of an untimely death should exist in the server, or any roleplaying server for that matter.

It would be my personal recommendation to allow a 1% chance per character level (or two levels, if you prefer)of having your character not come back to life, moving on to the next plane of existence instead. This way, the chances of losing your character are very small, but still a realistic possibility. It also allows a smaller chance of losing your starting characters so that such an incident will most likely occur later in your character's career, rather than too prematurely. This, in my opinion, would be the fairest method to use permadeath in a mod, regardless of the type or style of play, if it were even being considered.

[Misha Aogail]

Oooh! Putting chance in for death! I already deal with chance like that in my LARP. Only difference is we draw colored stones instead of letting a computer randomly calculate your death... 'Course it's scarier in the LARP 'cause every time we have to draw from the bag, the plot guys say (and very cheerfully, mind you), "Hope you have a new character in mind!"



This bit of random insight has been brought to you by the letter Q, then number 10, and viewers like you. ;D

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

BTW my intention was not to ask the DMs for permadeath to be implemented, as I would not like this at all. I was merely asking the community what their view was on complex RP and plot and how that would affect respawning?

[hoffman900]

Exactly what I said and meant: a good compromise.

Perma-death available by request when dealing with RPed storylines.

[kenny26]

my char has been killed dozens of times, and also many times in RP'ed PVP scenarios.
my reasoning for being able to respawn every time is that my char (jargo) has a goal he must fulfill.
the desire to reach his ultimate goal keeps him from simply 'giving up' (not respawning).

but i have discussed perma-death ic, saying that one day when enough battles have been fought, i might not return...
i like reminding players around me of this, observing their concern when jargo's muttering about his own final demise... ;D

i find the pressence of perma-death to contribute to the RP on many levels, but then again i believe that you as a player should still have complete control and only you can decide to put your char to rest for good.

[soulfien]

Personally, I hate respawning after an RP'ed PVP. To be totally honest, I always had a level of frustration for those who respawned after being assassinated or murdered or even executed by heroic adventurers.

In my opinion, being killed is being killed. We all face death and doing so adds a whole new level of RP. I believe it seperates the men from the boys. If you are slaughtered and accept it and do not respawn then you're the greatest in my book.

That may sound harsh, but it's true. After all, this IS a roleplaying server.

At any rate, I totally agree with Quadhund; always have. It's just too rediculous to RP coming back after being killed in good RP fasion.

For example: Once my assassin defended herself against a rival rogue who attacked her and won. The rogue wrote out a post in the IC forums about a farmer coming over and giving him a healing potion right after the battle and restoring him to life (even though he DID respawn). The rogue then set out to get his revenge.

That right there put a bad taste in my mouth. Where would it end? Another time a halfling was killed by my PC and laid down on the road to town where he was killed for half an hour before someone came by and raised him. Then he too sought revenge.

Well, I better quit rambling.

[Kolfrosta]

I think someone already said this, but, perma-death is up to the player. And in a world with Divine intervention, returning from death (RPed or otherwise), is still nothing short of a major miracle. With active gods and goddesses running around, this should come as little surprise. Sharita will not live forever, there will come a day when she draws her final breath.....and it will come when Mystra decides she has done what she was called to do.

[Manshin]

I like the idea of permadeath. I think all of these PVP challenges would be set out with a bit more care if death was an option. The one condition would be that the fight would have to be against an enemy who is challenging. (Unless it's the underdog making the challenge.) Thats not to say that a person's buddy standing by couldn't raise the looser.

Here is an idea; if two players decide to duel to the death, the looser could get a tomb stone to make his grave. After a while there would be several R.I.P.s in the grave yard to warn other PCs that PVP duels are serious.

[Misha Aogail]

Speaking of tombstones, it'd be great if we could examine a tombstone and see things like name, dates alive, maybe a quote or something...

When Torian perms, sad to say, but I think that everyone's going to celebrate...

[tskfrc58]

Some day they will develop a device, ala shadowrun or the matrix, that will physically interact with the human brain to bring your computer interaction to the next level. What's that? Your character died? ZAP TO THE BRAIN!! Oh , hurt like h*** didnt it? *friend picks you up off the floor, with smoke coming out of your ears*Here lets roll you up another character! What? youll be more careful this time? Mwuhahahahahah.

[kenny26]

tskfrc58 said:

Some day they will develop a device, ala shadowrun or the matrix, that will physically interact with the human brain to bring your computer interaction to the next level. What's that? Your character died? ZAP TO THE BRAIN!! Oh , hurt like h*** didnt it? *friend picks you up off the floor, with smoke coming out of your ears*Here lets roll you up another character! What? youll be more careful this time? Mwuhahahahahah.

i play shadowrun too. ;D
anyhow that's off topic.

i think most people would agree that perma death cannot be forced upon a char, but has to be a decision made by the player...

[Gusty]

I think most people who are not DMs would agree with that.

[Mr. Baboon]

Personally, if someone assasinates you, and properly disposes of the body, then you should suck it up and take your character for gone. I recently ran into someone who I know had been assasinated, and there body disposed of in a way as to never have any hope of being returned, and was surprised to see them walking around, healthy as a horse.

If my characters were assasinated, and the assasin told me "Hey, I'm feeding your body to a pack of starving animals.", then I'd say "Meh", and take the experience and go - since there is no way to be ressurected after being eaten (I believe a "Wish" spell is the only one which can bring you back from that, which isn't in NWN).

It just creates ridiculous situations, especially if YOU assasinated the person (I didn't).

It's just good RP... :-\

[Misha Aogail]

One thing about disposing of the body is some people respawn before you get a chance to do ANYthing with the body. Everything may have been agreed upon and done properly, but through mistake, or on purpose, sometimes the body disappears before anything can happen.