Foomanchu
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Post by Foomanchu on Mar 29, 2006 11:44:19 GMT -5
Real bad guys don't know they are bad...they think what they are doing is the right thing to do...good and bad are just...point of views for example, if a goodie tries to kill me because i worship a lord that wants to rape the land, then they are being bad in my eyes because they are trying to kill someone...but of course I look bad to them because...well...i'm trying to rape the land of all it's worth...heh
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Post by Grozer on Mar 29, 2006 16:11:43 GMT -5
The joy I find in being evil, is not so much being evil. But in pointing out to those roleplaying 'good' how close-minded, judgemental and how actually evil they behave in the name of good. It is rare that you find the benevolant, peaceful good character. More often then not my evil character is committing self-defense against Crusading good murderers. Kind of reminds me of our national politics.... hmmm. You have a fair point in this. I would have a really hard time playing a LG character because of said "close minded" nature. I think playing LG is just has hard as playing CE. (just to randomly evil for me.) I've been working on the details of my little evil one and I hope to start them up soon. I'm curious though, could a good person then argue that your displaying peaceful and good tendencies therefor- your not the bad kid after all? Everyone into the Nuetral Pot! Gusty's point is so true, I wish I could be that succinct! Many times its most exciting to see how far you can push a good PC before they step "over-the-line" in the name of good. I guess thats why I enjoy the tension, in your face you kind of confrontations versus the actual CvC (character vs character rather than PvP). In the entire time I have played my evil character there has been only three characters (all female heh) that tried to save him through benevolence and kindness, but that is really unusual in my opinion. Most times good wants to take the law into their hands and wipe the floor with ya! hehe... oh come on you know you do! Yoda to your question: "I'm curious though, could a good person then argue that your displaying peaceful and good tendencies therefor- your not the bad kid after all?" My take... let them! If they "believe" you are not so bad after all, then you have just gained an important advantage. I prefer to play evil NOT being random or about random violence, for me it all has a purpose, every action and decision. Anyway thats just me but I am definitely not the expert on playing evil.... I am just opinionated! LOL
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Post by sneakingyoda on Mar 29, 2006 16:34:49 GMT -5
Sure sure. Good is gulliable. Evil is diobolical . I was talking more of a Vader and luke moment. Luke: You can't fool me! I can FEEL the good in you. *Vader gets all teary* I'm A BAD MAN! NooOooOOOoOooOoOooOO!
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Post by DM Grizwald on Mar 29, 2006 16:39:16 GMT -5
All the evil players i have played basically believed that everyone was misguided, they never did any REALLY evil things though i only played neutral evil alignments. im thinking of making a CE guy soon tho, should be interesting
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Manshin
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Post by Manshin on Mar 29, 2006 23:08:09 GMT -5
Well, I dont know about all that. I think on EARTH, bad guys dont know they are bad... but in Forgotten Realms, they do. I mean, they whorship evil gods, and have to BE evil in order to get their reward in the afterlife. I dont agree that Goodie goodies going around smiting evil makes them evil. You have to RP your alighnment. If you pick evil, its for a reason. That means, goody goodies have a reason to be hunting you. You worship a saddistic, baby killing monster of a god (or goddess) and are working toward ushering in an age where all innocent people are enslaved to this god... I mean, your basically a nazi! Look at you! Dirty... dirty evil characters. YOu deserve to be hunted down! But seriously, from an RP standpoint, we have to remember that though the world of FRC stays static most of the time, your characters probably are working toward the ruin of Cormyr. These "evil" paladins may seem ruthless to you, but RP-wise, they are protecting the women and children who live in Cormyr by rooting out those who would seek the lands destruction. As there arent any forensic laboratories to track down criminals in FRC, the goodies tend to need to take a more "aggressive" approach to maintain realism. Its midevil afterall! On a side note... I think people often confuse "evil" with "cool" Take the Cronicles of Riddiick for example. All through the movies, everyone keeps talking about how evil Riddiick is... yet everytime some dilima comes up where he can be evil and save himself, or risk his neck for the sake of others, he opts to be good. When all you do is good deeds, you are good.. no matter how quietly you whisper all your "dark" punch-lines, or how black your shades are. I look at your alignment like a big cup. Goodness is milk, evil is chocolate syrup. The more brown your milk turns, the eviler you are. If all you do is poor in milk, but say a bunch of cool stuff to make you sound evil, your still just drinking milk. Excersise you evil! Rape, pillage, plunder! Earn those bounties! That way I dont have to feel bad for coming after you. Manshin
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Post by catmage on Mar 30, 2006 2:33:32 GMT -5
Evil is a many faceted thing. Both the Book of Vile Darkness and the FR cupplement Champion's of Ruin give examples of evil being evil solely because one needs an alignment for the purpose of spells and abilities. There are evil people who truely do belive they are good, like the elven organization dedicated to the removal of all humans. They feel they are doing what is best for elves, but one of thier "heros" is a druid lich that actively seeks a plague to wipe out all humans in a nasty nasty way. They're evil to most, but their intentions are "noble". Does this mean they can be good aligned? Nope, they're naughty killers who are opposed by the gods they love and honor in all other respects. Just because your character thinks he's good doesn't mean he isn't being a naughty person
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Post by Grozer on Mar 30, 2006 9:37:44 GMT -5
Evil is a many faceted thing. Both the Book of Vile Darkness and the FR cupplement Champion's of Ruin give examples of evil being evil solely because one needs an alignment for the purpose of spells and abilities. There are evil people who truely do belive they are good, like the elven organization dedicated to the removal of all humans. They feel they are doing what is best for elves, but one of thier "heros" is a druid lich that actively seeks a plague to wipe out all humans in a nasty nasty way. They're evil to most, but their intentions are "noble". Does this mean they can be good aligned? Nope, they're naughty killers who are opposed by the gods they love and honor in all other respects. Just because your character thinks he's good doesn't mean he isn't being a naughty person Here, here! Another to consider Manshin is I don't believe you always "pick evil." Not sure if you ever read Ranan's background but he didn't pick it... it came to him. An event in life forced a decision and he bent to his emotions instead of logic and reason. Now you can argue a person like that was destined to be evil, but the point is its a choice. Hopefully if I have been portraying and RP'ing Ranan as I intended... he does in fact "believe" his goals will benefit the masses. Of course there may be the side casualty but so be it for the greater "good". I could go on and on but I am sure most dont want me to hear about my ramblings of how I developed Ranan. Suffice it to say he doesn't fit that mold in my opinion and hopefully others if I have dont my RP right. I would also argue as I have said before I believe that PCs should "pick" and RP an alignment. The alignment is a reflection of a PC's actions. Yeah I know sounds like the arguement of chicken or the egg, but I see it as experiences/decisions/motivations --> moral choices/actions --> detemines alignment.
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Manshin
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Post by Manshin on Mar 30, 2006 18:38:49 GMT -5
Hmm, I guess thats what I meant. Its our choices that make us good or evil. I mean, its a "choice" to run into a nursing home with a flamethrower and start firing the place up. Of course no one's character "picks" evil from an RP standpoint... its more like they get sucked into it by events and choices.
I guess what I am getting at is, if you are one of the evil characters who always says "You have no right to attack me, I have never done anything wrong!" and you are telling the truth, then you need to either start doing some things wrong, or change your alignment away from evil. Unless, of course you're playing a character who has just been bidding his time and is waiting for the chance to do some BIG thing wrong. Of course, that kind of character certainly wouldnt be holding rank in some evil priesthood. You dont go up the evil corporate ladder of Bane Inc. for being a quietly repressed maniac waiting for your chance to strike... no no... Bane likes to see his clerics express them selves. As for Rannan, he HAD to know that turning to Bane so he could slaughter his enemies (revenge or not) was probably not the "moral" choice. heh. So, I'd say he earned his alignment though his choice and his lack of concience at what he had choosen to become. Does that make sense?
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Post by madskillsmike on Apr 25, 2006 16:41:40 GMT -5
I'd like to think that there are evil PC's who are conciously evil for whatever reason, and PC's that do evil because they believe it's the right moral choice. You might preach the word of Bane beceause you truly believe his dogma would benefit Faerun. It's not such a strange thing to do, does not all the ideologies with a substansial mass of followers on Earth that promote mass murder do so with the intent of a better society? Likewise, a Red Wizard may well believe the Thayan system is the best, where the intellectual elite rules, and wish to spread this regime further. It's the same old elitist values that has governed civilization for a much longer time than democracy. Are they evil? Yes. What are the chances that they would view themselves as evil? Minimal. That's my opinion anyway
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Driderman
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Post by Driderman on Apr 25, 2006 16:56:07 GMT -5
I'd like to think that there are evil PC's who are conciously evil for whatever reason, and PC's that do evil because they believe it's the right moral choice. Agreed. Some people choose to do acts that are evil, knowing that they are evil, while others may believe their actions are for the best of all. Of course, baby-killing banite-nazi's might be so crazed that they actually think all their baby-killing is for the best and of course, angsty palefaced teens might actually believe themselves to be evil while merely being bothersome ;D
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Post by Grozer on Apr 26, 2006 1:01:12 GMT -5
I'd like to think that there are evil PC's who are conciously evil for whatever reason, and PC's that do evil because they believe it's the right moral choice. Agreed. Some people choose to do acts that are evil, knowing that they are evil, while others may believe their actions are for the best of all. Of course, baby-killing banite-nazi's might be so crazed that they actually think all their baby-killing is for the best and of course, angsty palefaced teens might actually believe themselves to be evil while merely being bothersome ;D Side note: Ok can we drop the "baby-killing" part... Ranan has a poor reputation as it is.... and technically he is a father! Seriously though I agree with both points, sometimes bad people think they are doing others a service and saving them from a worse fate.
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Driderman
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Post by Driderman on Apr 26, 2006 6:39:23 GMT -5
Makes for the best villains, usually.
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Post by MTGPackFoils on May 8, 2006 7:15:03 GMT -5
to be honest I'd love to see more things for evil players to do...
...not really sure what...but something...
;D
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Foomanchu
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Post by Foomanchu on May 8, 2006 9:08:51 GMT -5
to be honest I'd love to see more things for evil players to do... ...not really sure what...but something... ;D What makes you think we're not doing anything? Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it's not happening *grins evily and cackles like a mad-man* ...jk actually I agree with ya mrindustrialpants lol
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Foomanchu
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The next 'Big Thing'
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Post by Foomanchu on May 8, 2006 9:14:11 GMT -5
LOL i just re-read some of the post here...WOW there are a lot of 'baby-killing' posts in this thread! LFMAO it's hilarious!
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Post by catmage on May 8, 2006 16:51:21 GMT -5
Enh, what's so great about babies anyway? They're loud, smelly, and usually dripping something. Any other thing that had this combination of traits would not be seen as precious. Let the evil gods have enough babies and they'll start decreeing that they don't want them as sacrificial victims. Except maybe Talona, I'm sure she'd enjoy the reek and moistness, since she already lives in a swamp
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Foomanchu
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Post by Foomanchu on May 8, 2006 17:06:59 GMT -5
lol well none of that is a problem when the baby is dead and burnt or w/e lol but ANNNYYWWAAAYYYSSS If a player wants to be evil they can pretty much play it how they like (know they're evil or believe they are the good ones)...but the way I personally play Jorbans evilness is that he believes whole-heartedly that he is doing the right thing and helping restore Toril back to the state it should be in, and anyone that's against this is clearly an enemy. No matter how you look at it, i find that good and evil is nothing more then a point of view...i think i already mentioned that..lol good and evil is different depending on what side of the fence your on oh....and as for picking evil when i create my character...OOC i know i want to be a mean mofo who eats babies etc etc but IC thats just the route I want my character going down, i want them to be able to do evil things etc etc because they started evil and always were evil, but doesn't mean they know they are evil. I agree with the 'filling the glass with milk' thing manshin said too. Jorban has done some 'good' things before lol and his alignment changed because of it...but...the other things he's done have altered it to what it is today (believe it or not he started out LN and I wasn't planning on being straight up evil) also, remember that just because a bad guy does a nice thing(s), doesn't mean he has good intentions muahahahaahaha
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Post by sneakingyoda on May 9, 2006 12:08:11 GMT -5
I tried playing evil, but then I discovered that I couldn't play both sides of the fence, knowing one half of the story spoiled the other half and so on. So instead of evil I went with a different route. She may or may not turn evil. we'll see. I'm amazed at how often this thread comes back from the dead. Does that make this thread evil? an Un-dead thread? Should I be banishing it?
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Post by Grozer on May 9, 2006 14:04:36 GMT -5
I tried playing evil, but then I discovered that I couldn't play both sides of the fence, knowing one half of the story spoiled the other half and so on. So instead of evil I went with a different route. She may or may not turn evil. we'll see. I'm amazed at how often this thread comes back from the dead. Does that make this thread evil? an Un-dead thread? Should I be banishing it? I think that depends on the how you go about playing each character. I happen to have a good character (and no I wont tell you who ) that I enjoy playing but the difference is he doesnt get that involved in some of the good vs evil plots. I havent learned a thing from playing him that would help my evil character and its mostly because I force myself away from anything that may be revealing. To be honest Yoda, you had a great concept for that evil character and I was sorry to see you drop it. My only suggestion should you ever try again is dont announce it. Not picking on you here, I think you we've RP'd enough together for you to know I think you are a great RP'r, but by asking innocently for advice here on the boards you kinda set yourself up. Unfortunately but true. Anyway, Yulena is a superb character so keep up the great RP. I know she has made things interesting for Ranan.
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Post by marklar on May 9, 2006 17:35:09 GMT -5
I'm amazed at how often this thread comes back from the dead. Does that make this thread evil? an Un-dead thread? Should I be banishing it? it's because the Ran-man blessed it with him Ran-man powers. but i do agree it is hard to play both sides of the spectrum, but grozer is right i wouldn't annouce your gonna try a evil character next time. it was assumed i was evil for a long long time but i never annouced it till i was popular enough for people to stay away/PC's to hate me which i think makes a large difference. remember that banite who admitted it at like lvl 2, then made another banite but did tell till lvl 3, he made it a bit longer but i wouldn't suggest it. i don't think i ever saw that character after Soidoc killed him...wonder why? lol
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Post by gathera on May 9, 2006 17:39:56 GMT -5
Well I will try "turning it" *chuckle*.
Well I will take a different tack on the bit of "advice". One of the things that in my mind at least differentiates evil form good is conscience. With a good character to me most of the fun is the angst arising from the choices that must be made. The graying of the white if you would. They can arise out the history or better yet events that happen on the server. It is these moral dilemmas that add depth to the characters. Not to say that such things don't apply to say the "Banites". It is just that a different perspective has be to applied. It sounds like Yulena choices in direction should make for some great RP.
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Post by sneakingyoda on May 10, 2006 0:47:56 GMT -5
LOL I wasn't talking about Yule turning evil. hehee.
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Driderman
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Post by Driderman on May 11, 2006 4:17:48 GMT -5
Maybe the Topic is Deathless and therefore good-aligned? And on the subject: I'd assume banites (and other assorted evils) have cases of conscience as well, its just that their angsty, moral dilemmas are a bit different from the good guys'... ;D
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Foomanchu
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Post by Foomanchu on May 11, 2006 8:14:37 GMT -5
Maybe the Topic is Deathless and therefore good-aligned? And on the subject: I'd assume banites (and other assorted evils) have cases of conscience as well, its just that their angsty, moral dilemmas are a bit different from the good guys'... ;D The only dilema I run into is "Who should I kill next" ;P jk haha you really have to play both sides to full understand lol. I used to play the goodies, but once I went Black I never went back.
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Driderman
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Post by Driderman on May 11, 2006 10:04:28 GMT -5
I love playing evil characters in PnP, especially the kind of evil chars that really don't seem all that vile, but in fact are the worst of the lot... I've never really played evil online since it's kinda hard getting it right (or wrong, depending on how you look at it ), considering you're probably going to get into a lot of pvp and since running around just doing evil things without any reason gets stupid real quick... But if the evils on the server are hiring, I wouldn't mind making a character to sign up for service to the Dark Gods
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Post by Grozer on May 11, 2006 15:44:43 GMT -5
I love playing evil characters in PnP, especially the kind of evil chars that really don't seem all that vile, but in fact are the worst of the lot... I've never really played evil online since it's kinda hard getting it right (or wrong, depending on how you look at it ), considering you're probably going to get into a lot of pvp and since running around just doing evil things without any reason gets stupid real quick... But if the evils on the server are hiring, I wouldn't mind making a character to sign up for service to the Dark Gods I'm not one that enjoys PvP but you are right playing evil puts you into that situation more often. I can honestly say though in all the time I've planned Ranan there has been only 1 or 2 that I can think of where I initiated the PvP. One of those I was challenged so kinda doesnt count I guess. Playing evil will of course -upset- a few people from time to time that may want to have a word with you... heh... and then cut your head off. So many of my PvP battles have been from being seeked out by others... then again there are some great RP'rs here, many of my most memorable moments are from situations that started as PvP and not one attack was ever initiated. Oh and by the way, we dont hire, we enlighten and we are always looking to reveal the -truth- to new people!
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Post by sneakingyoda on May 12, 2006 10:21:53 GMT -5
Oh and by the way, we dont hire, we enlighten and we are always looking to reveal the -truth- to new people! Translation: We hire, but you don't know it when we do it to you.
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Foomanchu
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Post by Foomanchu on May 12, 2006 11:05:04 GMT -5
Oh and by the way, we dont hire, we enlighten and we are always looking to reveal the -truth- to new people! Translation: We hire, but you don't know it when we do it to you. Hehe, don't underestimate the power of the dark side If you make an evil character don't expect to be entered into a guild, infact, don't expect to be accepted into any guild. It's something you have to work at...it's a "Don't call us, we'll call you" situation
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Post by Grozer on May 12, 2006 13:10:48 GMT -5
Oh and by the way, we dont hire, we enlighten and we are always looking to reveal the -truth- to new people! Translation: We hire, but you don't know it when we do it to you. Erm... speaking from experience there? ;D
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Post by sneakingyoda on May 12, 2006 13:13:26 GMT -5
Translation: We hire, but you don't know it when we do it to you. Erm... speaking from experience there? ;D \ If I was speaking from experiance, I wouldn't know it. =D
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