Character Builds and You...

[DM Justicar - Creator of FRC]

BTW, we are not saying you can't have 8's... we are just saying you need a really legitimate reason to have TWO abilities in the 6-8 range. Flawed/weak characters can be really fun to play in certain instances. However, if we weren't seeing so many players unable to make sense of how they should be played we wouldn't be doing this, I assure you.

Cheers!

[kenny26]

i'm not gonna get into this discussion of what the abilities represent and what they do not represent...
highlight any one ability score when rolling up a char and read it there for all i care...

as for my char, i find it amusing to RP my traits and abilities.
with an ego big enough to "forget wearing his shirt", i get alot of funny looks and some people get slightly nervous (or even blush ;D ) when i stop by.
i realise this is not me RPing as much as it is other people responding to my clothing. my point is that i also use clothes to get the message across.
the reason i might not be very mannerous when ic is my low wisdom. my char doesn't read people well and doesn't know when is appropriate to change his manners.
intelligense i RP by allowing some of my knowledge ooc to become known ic as well.
i might know that trolls are vulnerable to fire and acid, but i only ever act on this knowledge if my int is above average.

in truth it doesn't take alot of thinking to RP these traits, and with the great RP skills i see in many players, i say: relax, if you did just a little bit of thinking about your stats when you rolled up your char, chances are you also play them appropriately.

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

Phew, I'm glad I read the whole thread because I was about to go off. Didn't really seem fair to me that if someone wanted to play a character with double 8 scores that they couldnt. I think the letter of intent is a good idea. Though I really don't if you have a power build or not, and I dont really care if you roleplay your character how their stats are. To me you play your character how you wanna play them. And if you built your character so that all you are good at is smashing things then I prolly wont be RPing with you very much anyways.
"Many players are disgruntled by the fact that there are players who are "built" edging them out because they chose to make a more realistic, more playable character."

I just want to ask how a person is getting "edged out", in battle? Cause if thats the case, dont you want the powerbuild up in front fighting. I was wondering if i could get clarification on this statement... *shrugs*

[DM Justicar - Creator of FRC]

Quadhund said:

Phew, I'm glad I read the whole thread because I was about to go off. Didn't really seem fair to me that if someone wanted to play a character with double 8 scores that they couldnt. I think the letter of intent is a good idea. Though I really don't if you have a power build or not, and I dont really care if you roleplay your character how their stats are. To me you play your character how you wanna play them. And if you built your character so that all you are good at is smashing things then I prolly wont be RPing with you very much anyways.
"Many players are disgruntled by the fact that there are players who are "built" edging them out because they chose to make a more realistic, more playable character."

I just want to ask how a person is getting "edged out", in battle? Cause if thats the case, dont you want the powerbuild up in front fighting. I was wondering if i could get clarification on this statement... *shrugs*

There are players who are playing as if they are intelligent with an intelligence of 8. There are players who play leaders with low charisma and wisdom scores (similarly 8), there are players who are taking low stats to build their favored ones. This isn't fair to guys like you, Quad, who have built their characters properly.

I hope that clarifies... please let me know if it doesn't.

[kenny26]

and a little advice:
try to help your friends instead of making the DMs chase after them.

if you see a friend of yours and you know he has int 8 but uses words too long for even you to bother reading, then send him a tell.
"hey, your int is 8 right?"
"yeah and?"
"lol that must suck, you should be like 'me will crush! crush you to goo!' "

and if the other player doesn't get your subtle hint, then i guess the DMs will have to talk to him.

but my point is: help the DMs and talk to your friends about appropriate behaviour. friendly advice and then perhaps the DMs won't have nearly as many players to talk to about this otherwise fairly insignificant problem.

[Quadhund/Greenhouse]

*begins to feel slightly cheated* Hey, yeah this is really unfair . Just kidding, and I think kenny's suggestion is good. Well people guess you better listen to the dms and submit your letters of intent ... to kill

*runs off and tries to hide his quadruple 8 scores*

[DM Justicar - Creator of FRC]

kenny26 said:

and a little advice:
try to help your friends instead of making the DMs chase after them.

if you see a friend of yours and you know he has int 8 but uses words too long for even you to bother reading, then send him a tell.
"hey, your int is 8 right?"
"yeah and?"
"lol that must suck, you should be like 'me will crush! crush you to goo!' "

and if the other player doesn't get your subtle hint, then i guess the DMs will have to talk to him.

but my point is: help the DMs and talk to your friends about appropriate behaviour. friendly advice and then perhaps the DMs won't have nearly as many players to talk to about this otherwise fairly insignificant problem.

This is such a welcome suggestion.

I have always been an advocate of a self governing community... if more players would gut check themselves and their pals, we wouldn't need to go after these things as a team.

That could only be a good thing for the community. ;D

[kenny26]

just glad to help.

[Kolfrosta]

Well, hmm...now I have a question. Shari's stats are what *I* think are above average. Her base stats: low score is a 12 and high score is a 16. As none of her abilities give her a negative or zero bonus, I have been assuming she would be above average in her abilities, and have played her accordingly. She's not uber anything in any way, as I realize the stat scores can go pretty high in 3.0.

The question is...what scores are considered average, above average, and/or "Uber-power"?

[Munroe]

My view on stats and what they represent:

8 or lower is incredibly weak in an area for human. INT-wise, you are probably in special classes. WIS-wise, you may have some form of autism but it is undiagnosed. DEX-wise, you probably have trouble walking. CHA-wise, picking your nose in public isn't the problem, it is the desire you have to try to wipe your hands on other people afterward.

9 is below average. For example, a character with 9 INT can still speak Common plainly. A character with 8 or less has trouble. Forrest Gump probably has 9 INT as he speaks fairly well but writes horribly. (The book is written as though he wrote it.) DEX-wise, you have trouble kicking the ball in kickball, you are always first out in dodgeball. STR-wise, you get sore doing any serious lifting. WIS-wise, you ... "My God, what ARE you doing?!"

10-11 is average. 0 bonus is granted to abilities, but no penalties either. You are pretty average, all said and done. INT-wise, you probably get B's and C's on tests. STR-wise, your backpack is heavy but wouldn't be if you didn't fill it so full. DEX-wise, you're just some kid in gym class playing kickball. At least the kids don't make fun of you.

12-13 is slightly above average. In INT scores, your character is probably a bit smarter. In STR, you can carry a heavy backpack no problem. CHA, in a group of fairly average people, you might naturally fall into a leadership role.

14-15 is noticeably above average. INT-wise, you get 'A's in history, you use proper grammar and punctuation, you have a good understanding of mathematics including general algebra and geometry. STR-wise, you may look like you work-out, you may play college football. CHA-wise, you're very outgoing, you might be in drama club and a decent actor, or even pursuing an acting career, or hold an elected position in student government. WIS-wise, you get the feeling people would not have as many problems if they would just stop to think about their actions. You tend to give good advice and stay out of trouble. DEX-wise, if you are in karate, you may have won a regional tournament. If you are a dancer, you are good enough that you're pursuing it professionally.

16-17 is exceptional. INT-wise, you scored a 32 on your ACT, you got a perfect score on the math section of the SAT (I know a guy who did that). STR-wise, you have the body of a professional bodybuilder. You and your girlfriend were in a car accident and she was pinned so you pulled the car door off to get her out. CHA-wise, you are a celebrity, you're beguiling and people want to be around you. You may hold office as a governor or congressman. If you are a lawyer, the judge looks forward to having you in his court. DEX-wise, you are an olympic gymnast.

18, 19 and up? You are practically a god in your areas of expertise. Seriously, in your field, your colleagues (with 16-17 in comparable stat) even admire you. They think you're a righteous dude.

[Kolfrosta]

Thanks Munroe, that was pretty much what I was looking for, just an idea of what the basic stats reflect.

It seems like it is not much different than the 2nd ed rules......and that is what I'm most familiar with.

[Talus]

hmm...kinda wish this thread had been around before I built Kam. Oh well guess I will know better after he dies.

[MithrilBlade]

Not sure but I think 19-20 are the olympic stuff, I'd say for example Einstein and Gauss had int of 22-24, they were both extremely exceptionally intellectual people, I'm nearby sure that they'd exceed most high level archmages in intellectual part (but they weren't casters but lv 20 scientists ;P).

Anyway I just WONDER how you should RP someone like Larloch who has 35 int...
It's like something humanly impossible to imagine, someone with such intelligence will like automatically think million backup plans in a second if something fails and calculates the chances for all things in a second "logically thought crossing the bridge we'd have 83% chance to cross it, but concidering the position of those two steps there it's not very steady so let's reduce about 17.5%, still we'd have chance that 2.3 persons will be able to pass it before we will drop down to the river".

...Okay me just playing with the idea of super genius, just interests me as I had once character that had (with items on) 37 int

[TwistedVision]

If you can get a copy of the stat descriptions from the PnP books then they are very helpful in showing what 8s mean.

I usually pick 2-3 downsides from those listed in PnP books for an 8 (more if the racial modifier takes it lower) that define how the character is poor in this area and RP those as much as I can.

[Artemisa]

Sorry to bump this old thread, but I really feel it nesessairy to let people know that the DMs actually gave me their OK to continue with my bard (Ilmen'Lindor) as I first build her. I have had a few idiotic remarks ingame because of the way I made her after I openly admitted to have two 8's here in this thread. I can really live without 'friendly' tells such as "I see no point in roleplaying with a powerbuild character, no offense"

I try my very, very best to roleplay my character as I made her to be and I think the people I usually play with would agree that I at least TRY. I made her abilities after her personality, NOT the other way around. And how much a powerbuild can a bow using bard be anyway? Come on...Sorry for ranting, but this really sucks the fun away when playing here.

-Arty

[MithrilBlade]

I must agree with Artemisa here, she is one of the best roleplayers I have met in NWN all time, propably better than I am...
She would never make character for powerbuild, heck if you look at 8 str and 8 wis, it's BIG deal with bard, low will saves and you can't carry a darn leather armor not speaking of impossibility to fight with any meelee weapon...

I know that propably 80% of server's characters have stronger abilities than she (even if you ignore the level) will ever get, so please don't harrass her for making unique character with both strengths and weaknesses.

[Talus]

Artemisa said:

Sorry to bump this old thread, but I really feel it nesessairy to let people know that the DMs actually gave me their OK to continue with my bard (Ilmen'Lindor) as I first build her. I have had a few idiotic remarks ingame because of the way I made her after I openly admitted to have two 8's here in this thread. I can really live without 'friendly' tells such as "I see no point in roleplaying with a powerbuild character, no offense"

I try my very, very best to roleplay my character as I made her to be and I think the people I usually play with would agree that I at least TRY. I made her abilities after her personality, NOT the other way around. And how much a powerbuild can a bow using bard be anyway? Come on...Sorry for ranting, but this really sucks the fun away when playing here.

-Arty

Hmm...well that would seem to me to be Metagaming and not very good RP then. So it would seem to me if they won't RP with you they are missing out. *shrugs*

[soulfien]

it's really sad that people are doing this. If she hadn't posted here no one would have known. There's no way for anyone to look at another person's stats.

So why not continue to play like you were? Bah. Of all the things to complain about, this seems very trivial from a player to player aspect. It's a dm to player matter only- sorry there's no governing other players in this matter since there is no way to view other's stats.

Also, I rather enjoyed playing 8's. I normally never have an 8 (thus having an exceptional above-average humanoid), but when I do it's a lot of fun. A hot-headed rogue, a stupid fighter...

Personally, a fighter with a 13 int is a heck of a lot stronger than one with an 8 *cough*weaponmaster*cough*. A lot of the fighter feats require 13 intel.

But whatever people.

Oh, and not everyone is a born leader. we can't all have 12 and up in CHA.

Not barking at the dm's, just the players who are now on an 8's witchunt.

[theseeker]

i think the dms mean from a rp point of view example a fighter that has int 8 that talks about spells and ...and talks in a normal or high int way...when they would be a dumb as a orc and not be able to put two words together..its metagaming useing the stats and conducting your self in a way you would not be able to. if it was built into the game the stat tweakers would have a hard time doing normal things/ in saying this im not have a go at anyone

[Artemisa]

The said:

i think the dms mean from a rp point of view example a fighter that has int 8 that talks about spells and ...and talks in a normal or high int way...when they would be a dumb as a orc and not be able to put two words together..its metagaming useing the stats and conducting your self in a way you would not be able to. if it was built into the game the stat tweakers would have a hard time doing normal things/ in saying this im not have a go at anyone

I know. And I agree. But in this case the DMs allowed me to keep my character as she is becuase I DO play her according to how her stats are. Or at least try very hard to do so. I arranged her stats after her personality, not the other way around

Anyway..I'm gonna stop whining about this now. I've had a few days away from FRC and cooled down a bit. Ilmen should be around again soon enough..

[Misha Aogail]

Another thing to remember is that some people, no matter what their stats are, just can't seem to get the roleplaying bit down. These are the people that need a gentle reminder that their wizard has a high int or wisdom or their barbarian has a slightly lower one. They don't need to be harassed about it. Just reminded.

[DM Valkyrie]

I was browsing through our old threads, and came across this gem. Since I have seen many new players lately, I thought I would give this a little boost, as this thread has excellent tips on roleplaying stats.

It's great to be in the game and roleplaying, something I love seeing, be it in an inn, or while you are out exploring, but if what I see doesn't reflect what is on your character sheet, I find it hard to hand out "cookies".

[moulinous]

hey everybody, i just read this and was hoping some people would read this for it is a great thread...

[DM Justicar - Creator of FRC]

I am also glad we are dicussing this again. Here is a related topic, if not the same.

frc.proboards37.com/index.cgi?board=roleplaydiscussion&action=display&thread=1131641239

[DM Grizwald]

Now, i've never ever actually read this thread. It helped alot. I'm always trying to find ways to improve my rp'ing ability

[DM Sauron]

Much needed bump and sticky

Apr 20, 2005 18:10:06 GMT -5 DM Justicar - Creator of FRC said:

The DM staff is seeing alot characters that are more "built" than properly played. This is not only disheartening, it is totally unwelcome on our server.

Gut check time:

Your character has an 8 intelligence, yet still converses around the fire as if he/she were a Rhodes scholar.

Your character has an 8 charisma, yet their description tells of how charming and comely they are.

Your character has an 8 wisdom, yet somehow manages to act in a cool, calm, and collected manner at all times.

This not only has to end, but I think I speak for the whole DM team when I say this:

We give XP for good RP... we are going to have to start taking it away for poor. People who are power-building and demonstarting no concept of their characters true abilities are going to start feeling the pinch. If you are currently playing a character that makes no sense, well... that's your issue. Re-roll immediately, and call it a day.

Please play your characters to their abilities folks, to the best of your abilities. If you are not a skilled RP'er, I suggest NOT taking any challenging ability scores that require special attention to RP.

Most of you have been very good about this, and this only goes for those of you who are skirting the line.

Please consider this fair warning, and go ahead and ask any questions you might have.