What Is Your Preference

[sightblinder]

Another thread got me thinking about how other people on the server deal with certain things, like death, respawning and revisiting dungeons.

I personally in my own head canon visualize dying and being raised by a scroll or party member cleric as "almost" dying. Same goes for respawns. The reason for this is that I feel death should be more impactful and treating death as just a nuisance really bugs me and breaks my immersion. For dungeons I just head canon it as being a different part of the same dungeon or another dungeon altogether, again because it helps -me- remain immersed in the game. How do others deal with it?

[malclave]

Death: usually I view it as "mostly dead" (as Miracle Max would put it).

Dungeons: depends on the dungeon. Thunderstorm only has one graveyard tended by a Kelemvor merchant cleric, as far as I know, and how many goblin fortresses can there be between Greatgaunt and Valkur's Roar? On the other hand, bandits and orc bands tend to move about, so they wouldn't always be found in the same campsite or cave.

[TrueBlueOriginal]

Death: I treat as having died. If my character dies on an adventure, they're somewhat listless after having been raised. If I'm with a small group that can turn back, and the option is given, I'll generally elect to turn back. If we're somewhere that we can't turn back, or doing so would be un-fun for the group, I'll stick it out. If my character dies multiple times, they may become very quiet as they're kind of in a haze. Even if they're Resurrected, rather than Raised, they're in a somber state, even though not physically injured. Depending on how they were Raised/Ressed, and which cleric did the Raising, if it was a cleric, they may respond differently than if it was just a scroll. If they get a Divine Intervention, they may be more energized, even if it wasn't a Resurrection, but just a Raise, because that means a deity or their representative acted directly to save the character. This is a sign that a deity has their back, not just a person using a deity's magic. Death is death. If my character raises another character and they act like they just didn't die, it feels like a snub. My character just harnessed immense cosmic powers (whether by spell or by scroll) and restored the other character to life. I expect them to act accordingly.

Dungeons: I rarely go to dungeons frequently enough that going to the same one is a logical problem. I might talk about being in the cave years ago, and wonder how much has changed. (Sometimes things actually have changed substantially.)

Respawn: Death is death. I don't know how I got to the temple. I guess somebody found my body and brought it in. Respawns are very rare for me though. On my newest character, I did not respawn until level 7. I note all my respawns in my in-game journal with my dungeon tracking.

Once I was away from the game for multiple months and I explained the absence of one of my characters as having been dead and left in a snowbank in the mountains for months. Finally someone stumbled on the character and got Resurrection cast. That character had a multi-month gap where they have no recollection because they were dead. (That also means they were effectively several months younger as they were dead so weren't aging.)

[darthweasel]

I'd love to compare this to TT but we all know it's not a 1 for 1 transition. Since we have to deal real time with spawns and the game engine, not player performance, is more likely the cause of most I have trouble giving it the credence I do at the table. I also have a real hard time justifying giving it the real level of concern when rping it out can hose the entire team over.

[DM Grizwald]

Any death I view as a death. My characters typically gasp for breath and play out some sort of recovery if time permits it. It should be impactful! You've been defeated by something. My characters typically (not always mind you and it depends on the toon) turn back after something like that or shy away from the next encounter. Now I have a rogue with 8 wisdom that doesn't really learn from his mistakes too well so that's a bit of an exception.

If I do eat a respawn then my characters typically wander the fugue or sit and pray for quite a while. I often shelf them for a few days. A while back, I nearly made back my xp losses just in xp bonuses by staying IC and praying. I hardly eat a respawn mind you so this rarely happens. On the DM side, if someone puts in the effort to stay IC down there, I'll try and set something up for them. I think the Fugue is such an interesting place. However trying to prep an encounter with a strange afterlife creature before a character sprints all the way to the portal back hardly ever works.

When it comes to revisiting a dungeon, I typically treat it as a new encounter unless I'm returning after being thwarted by my last visit. There are exceptions to all of these things mind you. Icingdell I've always treated as an old ruin with a boss that never goes away (trying not to spoil anything), most of the elven ruins with undead in them, that sort of thing. Treating recurring visits as newish encounters helps prevent metagaming enemy spawns which is a big pet peeve of mine.

[Runa Rothgar]

We always watch the movies where someone is flatlining or just fell dead and someone brings em back to life. The body is still warm. The Raise Scroll sorta just 'defibrillates' a freshly dead body. I try not to get too detailed about it all but,'Technically' our character has flatlined but the raise/rez will pump their heart again and it isn't too much of a pain to get up and moving while the adrenaline is pumping. Get back to adventuring and when the adventure is over, our character can then say 'Boy, gonna feel that in the morning."

Saying ingame: 'I died 3 times this week.' Sounds a little goofy, so I sorta generalize it as, 'Boy got my arse handed to me this week.'

Roleplay wise Leah has jumped on some butts in game about death/dying, making it all joke because people 'whip' out raise scrolls so easily and disregard death because raise scrolls are so available to grab. I treat Leah as someone, who is an assassin, death being just a part of her life and the adventurer's life is full of death. It can't really be taken seriously when raise/rez scrolls are very handy to acquire for them and the concern of someone not coming back is very very low, as well as the amount of death dealed while adventuring sorta becomes a norm. Oocly, rarely anyone Perma's their character so I think players get numb at 'death'. So I try to find a happy medium with my characters to deal with death, due to the non-permadeath nature of FRC.

In terms of respawn it depends on the situation. If I am by myself I really just bypass it if there is no one to talk about it. I'll just play it off as my character being too embarrassed to talk about it or something xD. If other people are involved we can RP accordingly and just say somehow...someway we made it out.. mystery!

Most dungeons I sorta revisit as a different place but same beasts and usually try to generalize the bosses as 'Chief' or 'Leader'. For example:

Today someone said they cleared out the Bloodsun Bugbears and my character replied that we will seek out another encampment of the Bugbears. In essence, it's the same place but easy to just RP we are hunting them somewhere else. This works well with most dungeons. Most times, dungeons are time killers and we end up RPng about other things than focusing on the dungeon.

To me, Forgotten Realms is a fantasy, and I stick to fantasy ideals (Can of worms). Realism should have a limit in a Fantasy world because limiting fantasy in our own realism is unfortunately a must.

[Moire Dhonait]

I view death as "almost dead" like you do, and resurrect scrolls and raise dead scrolls being like a defibrillator. There can be no pulse, no breath, but there's still brain activity, although people in Cormyr have no means of detecting it. Even a deep coma can be mistaken for death. And in certain real life spiritual traditions, it's said that the soul doesn't leave the body until several hours after death, so if there were a way to heal the trauma to the body quickly enough, through magic... Well, that would be healing, not resurrection.

The reason I like to do that is because if true death is meaningless and the dead can simply be raised, it takes the poignancy and finality out of death and makes for hokey stories. All the great literature deals with human themes of loss and suffering. As they say, the only unavoidable things are death and taxes. Death is the great equalizer. If even the great mystery of death is just a matter of economic class and what you can afford, what a cynical place Cormyr would be!

More than that, the world doesn't show evidence of that being the case. Graves and tombstones still show the sentiment of loss. Bodies of "slain adventurer" NPCs can't be raised. Narratives and in game histories talk about the tragic deaths of very wealthy figures.

[Sioladuil]

Feb 7, 2022 13:04:07 GMT -5 DM Grizwald said:

Any death I view as a death. My characters typically gasp for breath and play out some sort of recovery if time permits it. It should be impactful! You've been defeated by something. My characters typically (not always mind you and it depends on the toon) turn back after something like that or shy away from the next encounter. Now I have a rogue with 8 wisdom that doesn't really learn from his mistakes too well so that's a bit of an exception.

If I do eat a respawn then my characters typically wander the fugue or sit and pray for quite a while. I often shelf them for a few days. A while back, I nearly made back my xp losses just in xp bonuses by staying IC and praying. I hardly eat a respawn mind you so this rarely happens. On the DM side, if someone puts in the effort to stay IC down there, I'll try and set something up for them. I think the Fugue is such an interesting place. However trying to prep an encounter with a strange afterlife creature before a character sprints all the way to the portal back hardly ever works.

When it comes to revisiting a dungeon, I typically treat it as a new encounter unless I'm returning after being thwarted by my last visit. There are exceptions to all of these things mind you. Icingdell I've always treated as an old ruin with a boss that never goes away (trying not to spoil anything), most of the elven ruins with undead in them, that sort of thing. Treating recurring visits as newish encounters helps prevent metagaming enemy spawns which is a big pet peeve of mine.

Like that time we all scatteres from the Icingdwell spawns and Clarke got froze to death. He spent an age thawing out. Good times xD

[sightblinder]

yeah I very rarely am forced to respawn as well. I never really considered treating respawns and raises differently. Honestly I don't think I've had a character who got to any level at all have to respawn. I solo a lot, but I am pretty careful with a character that's been around a while. New characters are a lot more squishy too so there is a bigger chance of a respawn. Like Runa said up above and others echoed, a rez is more like a defibrillation in my head. Keep them coming! I find all this fascinating.

[malclave]

Oh, respawns could be pretty common for me when I was trying to log on more often, with groups so rare. A couple of my characters can solo okay, but for the rest unless they're grinding content that only gives 1-2 do per kill I might die 1 run out of 3.

If I have to think about it, I'll usually just consider it getting a severe beating and being dumped outside.

[DM Grizwald]

Feb 7, 2022 15:11:52 GMT -5 Sioladuil said:

Like that time we all scatteres from the Icingdwell spawns and Clarke got froze to death. He spent an age thawing out. Good times xD

*eye twitch*

[Warlord]

On the note of revisiting dungeons

"Let's go do the orcs"

"I've done the orogs"

What are we scouting for a brothel here?

I think I've slipped up on a rare blood moon with using those expressions, but I generally encourage to use expressions like

"Let's go investigate these foes"

"Let's go cull, hunt, or quench these monsters"

"I heard more rumors of nefarious activity here, or there.."

And so forth

The revisiting a dungeon clause I tend to simplify by amassing the reverse logic of "all the foes" being defeated. Maybe they were not all defeated. In which case, "Hrast, the monsters hired a cleric or we missed something."

[Animayhem]

If my characters go to a dungeon they are familair with I may mention last time I was here there were.. Maybe a new tribe. Very rare for me to respawnas my characters are usually raised.

When  am I act in a confused state, the death amnesia is still active I think?

I try not to get into situations where I may get killed or endanger the party, however " EDM's and DM"s happen." 

[Masterbard Alyster Darkharp]

Feb 8, 2022 10:43:53 GMT -5 Animayhem said:

If my characters go to a dungeon they are familair with I may mention last time I was here there were.. Maybe a new tribe. Very rare for me to respawnas my characters are usually raised.

When  am I act in a confused state, the death amnesia is still active I think?

I try not to get into situations where I may get killed or endanger the party, however " EDM's and DM"s happen." 

Death amnesia is only on a respawn after a PVP encounter. It prevents the PVP cycle from escalating when one PC kills another. Even if they offer you an OOC raise, you still get death amnesia since you were killed by a player. This is completely different if you are killed by a player and an ally raises you during the course of events, then you are alive and remember. The OOC raise is considered a respawn for these purposes as I understand it, but an IC raise is different.

[gamer025]

I want to say something quickly before I respond at length: I find that death is usually more a problem in a party when it's RP'd as something trivial than just my character alone. If the party you're with just quickly res'd you with a scroll or something then carries no in the dungeon, it's like ok wow death is just a trivial thing that can easily be 'cured.'

[sightblinder]

This is one of the main reasons why I think rezzes should be treated as "almost" dead. Sure this is an RP server but if you have to stop and role play out how your character just died every time? Well, real life is a thing and people have limited time to play. It'd be nice to have the luxury of unlimited time to play out your character's own personal angst each time, but it isn't realistic to expect it.

[shadou]

[gamer025]

Feb 7, 2022 22:53:20 GMT -5 Warlord said:

On the note of revisiting dungeons

"Let's go do the orcs"

"I've done the orogs"

What are we scouting for a brothel here?

I think I've slipped up on a rare blood moon with using those expressions, but I generally encourage to use expressions like

"Let's go investigate these foes"

"Let's go cull, hunt, or quench these monsters"

"I heard more rumors of nefarious activity here, or there.."

And so forth

The revisiting a dungeon clause I tend to simplify by amassing the reverse logic of "all the foes" being defeated. Maybe they were not all defeated. In which case, "Hrast, the monsters hired a cleric or we missed something."

Very much agree with the wording. As for revisiting: yes, not all enemies defeated - they've repopulated - new monsters occupying the area - it's a game.

[gamer025]

Death can be treated as - referring to some old NES games - being 'defeated' and not dead, or incapacitated which means "deprived of strength or power; debilitated."

Kinda off topic, but connected: PLEASE allow us to rest more in dungeons. Resting is part of the game. It's always been done when in a party where we don't all rest at once - some characters keep watch, and we take turns resting. There's also such a thing as "short rest" in PnP.

[tarsiz]

Jun 16, 2022 12:20:37 GMT -5 gamer025 said:

Death can be treated as - referring to some old NES games - being 'defeated' and not dead, or incapacitated which means "deprived of strength or power; debilitated."

Kinda off topic, but connected: PLEASE allow us to rest more in dungeons. Resting is part of the game. It's always been done when in a party where we don't all rest at once - some characters keep watch, and we take turns resting. There's also such a thing as "short rest" in PnP.

Heavily disagree with that second point. I often find resting to be a bit immersion-breaking when running long dungeons.

It's okay to have it from times to times (especially if there are truly "safe" areas), but keep in mind that short rests in PnP do not let you recuperate spell slots. In 5E at least, short rests let you heal (some) using hit dice - a resource you replenish on long rests. Only proper long rests let you restore spells, and they last for eight hours. Obviously, 8 hours in game would be 80 minutes of real life time and it's not really doable in NWN so there is a compromise to be found here.

Overall I'm in the camp of trying to rest as little as possible on a single dungeon run. Manage your resources better. If you feel like a dungeon's difficulty is increasing as you go deeper, it's probably feasible to buff very little for the first few parts. Keep shorter duration spells for when you actually need them (nothing like agreeing on casting only long duration spells at the beginning of a run to see the caster immediately pop a turns/level spell... ). Rely on consumables when needed.

Some places have a legit "mid-way" point where resting makes sense. These can be great as well as breaks between hard combats in a dungeon can lead to good RP moments (and gives players time to go to the bathroom, get water, stretch their legs, etc.). But I'd rather see them be fairly rare.

[arcadiadragonloy]

rezzes as a defribrilator is I think a good take... dont really need to RP that as a actual Death, especially in a large group when time and RP energy is at a premium...though I would probabaly RP chrys taking it abit slower after nearly "dropping" and learning why she got beat up...now on a Death with no rez(respawn) if it was solo then I usually take a RL week to recover her will to strike out again, if it was in a group but they had to drag her body to town and same day rez then shes done for at least that day and maybe the next, DM plot death I will see what the RP dictates(just to clarify DMTPK referred to those rare occasions when the DM either oops on the CR or the ADDs still remember 3 dragons extra was laughed at that was years ago and I RP chrys as having a fear of dragons to this day obviously no DM wants a TPK)...non DM death and party wipe again see how the other player wants to treat it and RP it as flexible as I can to keep it smooth and not force My RP on them (just in case it was just either a silly death or a lag death or we really didnt think we'd die)

as for dungeon revisits its like others have said...new tenats have moved in...beating the hordes back or just being cautious and seeing if the cave or camp has been reoccupied...though Chrys probaly has no reason unless a few select people actually ask her anymore...she's abit older now and not needing to prove herself to herself

edited to clarify a vagueness and I think some spelling 

[gamer025]

Jun 16, 2022 14:30:28 GMT -5 tarsiz said:

Jun 16, 2022 12:20:37 GMT -5 gamer025 said:

Death can be treated as - referring to some old NES games - being 'defeated' and not dead, or incapacitated which means "deprived of strength or power; debilitated."

Some places have a legit "mid-way" point where resting makes sense. These can be great as well as breaks between hard combats in a dungeon can lead to good RP moments (and gives players time to go to the bathroom, get water, stretch their legs, etc.). But I'd rather see them be fairly rare.

This is actually a very good reason why there should be more rest spots. Some dungeons take more than 1 hour to navigate. You don't have to use them if you don't want to.

[DM Betelgeuse]

Jun 16, 2022 14:30:28 GMT -5 tarsiz said:

Jun 16, 2022 12:20:37 GMT -5 gamer025 said:

Death can be treated as - referring to some old NES games - being 'defeated' and not dead, or incapacitated which means "deprived of strength or power; debilitated."

Kinda off topic, but connected: PLEASE allow us to rest more in dungeons. Resting is part of the game. It's always been done when in a party where we don't all rest at once - some characters keep watch, and we take turns resting. There's also such a thing as "short rest" in PnP.

Heavily disagree with that second point. I often find resting to be a bit immersion-breaking when running long dungeons.

It's okay to have it from times to times (especially if there are truly "safe" areas), but keep in mind that short rests in PnP do not let you recuperate spell slots. In 5E at least, short rests let you heal (some) using hit dice - a resource you replenish on long rests. Only proper long rests let you restore spells, and they last for eight hours. Obviously, 8 hours in game would be 80 minutes of real life time and it's not really doable in NWN so there is a compromise to be found here.

Overall I'm in the camp of trying to rest as little as possible on a single dungeon run. Manage your resources better. If you feel like a dungeon's difficulty is increasing as you go deeper, it's probably feasible to buff very little for the first few parts. Keep shorter duration spells for when you actually need them (nothing like agreeing on casting only long duration spells at the beginning of a run to see the caster immediately pop a turns/level spell... ). Rely on consumables when needed.

Some places have a legit "mid-way" point where resting makes sense. These can be great as well as breaks between hard combats in a dungeon can lead to good RP moments (and gives players time to go to the bathroom, get water, stretch their legs, etc.). But I'd rather see them be fairly rare.

This sums up my thoughts. Plan resources better. Ration spells. Keep something in reserve.

[Animayhem]

Jun 16, 2022 17:30:03 GMT -5 DM Betelgeuse said:

Jun 16, 2022 14:30:28 GMT -5 tarsiz said:

Heavily disagree with that second point. I often find resting to be a bit immersion-breaking when running long dungeons.

It's okay to have it from times to times (especially if there are truly "safe" areas), but keep in mind that short rests in PnP do not let you recuperate spell slots. In 5E at least, short rests let you heal (some) using hit dice - a resource you replenish on long rests. Only proper long rests let you restore spells, and they last for eight hours. Obviously, 8 hours in game would be 80 minutes of real life time and it's not really doable in NWN so there is a compromise to be found here.

Overall I'm in the camp of trying to rest as little as possible on a single dungeon run. Manage your resources better. If you feel like a dungeon's difficulty is increasing as you go deeper, it's probably feasible to buff very little for the first few parts. Keep shorter duration spells for when you actually need them (nothing like agreeing on casting only long duration spells at the beginning of a run to see the caster immediately pop a turns/level spell... ). Rely on consumables when needed.

Some places have a legit "mid-way" point where resting makes sense. These can be great as well as breaks between hard combats in a dungeon can lead to good RP moments (and gives players time to go to the bathroom, get water, stretch their legs, etc.). But I'd rather see them be fairly rare.

This sums up my thoughts. Plan resources better. Ration spells. Keep something in reserve.

However if a dm decides to spice things to the extreme and not replace spent resources well....  plans can go south....   The groups my characters travel with we do stock up and yes things can also fail with no dm spice.

It all a matter of teamwork and planning.  My travel groups discuss tactics before venturing

[malclave]

One problem with just telling people to plan it out is that it has the potential to discourage RP. If your spells don't last quite a bit longer than you expect the dungeon to take, you might not want to spend a lot of time RPing, other than what you can type while walking across a large room or while waiting for the designated looter to finish up.

That also holds true if a DM spices things up with a pure RP encounter. 10 or 15 minutes talking with an NPC you just freed or searching around to investigate that strange shaft of light might mean that when you reach the end of the dungeon you have problems getting through the enemies' DR and they have an easier time hitting you than expected, because your spells wore off.

[Animayhem]

To me dungeon hunting is about rp not just crash and go no matter what character I play. many times we were unable to finish but had fun rp.

[DM Betelgeuse]

If things happen outside of your control, leave the dungeon. Try again next week.

There is nothing wrong with leaving a dungeon without finishing it.

[Asgardian Grey Hawk]

Jun 19, 2022 9:05:38 GMT -5 DM Betelgeuse said:

If things happen outside of your control, leave the dungeon. Try again next week.

There is nothing wrong with leaving a dungeon without finishing it.

except damaged pride lol jk

[malclave]

Might have to fight your way going back, though, until the spawn timers get put in. Might be easier to just log out and wait for a reset.

[Animayhem]

Jun 19, 2022 18:27:48 GMT -5 malclave said:

Might have to fight your way going back, though, until the spawn timers get put in. Might be easier to just log out and wait for a reset.

It can be done if you are i a group. You could be lucky and have a mage with you to teleport.

This is why I would like to see individual one time use portal stones.