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Post by Alizarin Spion - Sleeper Agent on Dec 28, 2019 1:32:11 GMT -5
I know this isn't a popular opinion because I know the type of players and staff that are playing this game but I think it is a worthy discussion to be had.
I refer to the server rule that states:
I find it rather odd that we have quite strict rules against swearing because we have minors playing the game, and at the other side of the coin you allow (but "discourage") cybersex. I can't wrap my head around why something that has to be played out in TELLS (with risks of cyber misstells which is a thing) and requires you to OOCly verify peoples IRL personal information would be allowed in-game. We're expected to be in-character at all times except when it comes to cybersexing where we'll allow you to mediate through tells, which again, don't make sense. I mean can't we just admit that this isn't really an act of RP and that it generates absolutely ZERO RP value but that rather, it is just a means to sate our own OOC lust, you can still RP a fully functional couple without doing any tell exchange of how well you're doing each other.
And I also wonder, how well regulated is this rule? How do we know that people are OOCly checking each others personal information, should we even bother pooling resources to make sure that people are checking each others information? TL;DR: Why do we allow cybersex in-game? Why is it more okay to perform make-belief sex in a video game than to freely express yourself? I'm mostly curious about the DM teams' take on this but I'm going to put this in general discussion in case someone wants to tie the noose around my neck. Thank you.
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Post by Tytillandus on Dec 28, 2019 3:10:01 GMT -5
What the problem? This has happened to my main a half dozen times. Not once has anyone ask for consent or even ask about my interest IC or OOC. After they are rejected IC our players generally never play together again. If someone thinks rule one requires my char to change her sexual preferences to suit their character's desires then how likely are they to allow me any significant input into the story? So if your thinking 'tight rp community' this is an issue. I have not seen that so for me the real issue is IC --the juvenile seductions and the general lack of any romance.
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Post by Sioladuil on Dec 28, 2019 3:12:57 GMT -5
Back in the day...
My mage was stalking a target... Followed them in to an Inn room and ultimately found himself watching some pretty saucy ERP done in Whispers.
No teleports. No key to leave the room. Could not send a tell because that would be weird.
Had to simply log out and wait a few hours.
I have also received cyber miss tells. Always fun.
But again - my stance is that if it ain't bothering anyone else - get right about each other.
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Post by mandene on Dec 28, 2019 4:46:32 GMT -5
I'm one of the people who have difficulty roleplaing sex.
The strange part is that I am not a prude by any means. I just find it extremely uncomfortable and can't write anything at all in those situations.
I know that others in my situation prefer to stay out of romance roleplay. But I like it.
So far I haven't had any issues with that rule. Even when servers don't have it, my boundaries have been respected. If I'm not asked, I make sure the other player knows, when the need for it arrives.
The only time any of my characters have been tortured was 10 years ago or so, on another server, by a DM-ran villain.
One time, long ago, has one of my characters been made to an offering to an evil deity in a manner that changed their alignment. This has been done with my permission. It was obtained beforehand, without too many details given.
So, in summary, the rules have always been followed on my side,by those that play and have played with me.
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Post by DM Maleficent's Kiss on Dec 28, 2019 5:20:11 GMT -5
I know the type of players and staff that are playing this game
I understand the point you're trying to make but comments like this can be taken quite literally as a slam against the community at large. Respectfully, I would ask that you not lump everyone into the same group as we are all individuals here. Just because some members on staff and some players might be inclined one way or the other, doesn't mean all of us are.
In response to some of the points you made not everyone spends time cybering in an inn room and in fact it's a significant minority of characters that even engage in this type of RP. Typically these players follow the rules and don't bother anyone, most of them even go off to the more quiet inn's or remote parts of the server so they don't accidentally bother anyone. By and large, these people are usually very respectful of others and the rules FRC has in place when it comes to cybering.
When I say "significant minority" I mean it. Most people aren't off cybering like this so I think we need to be careful here that this isn't blown out of proportion. On the other hand swearing is something that happens frequently enough and is quite a bit more problematic considering we advertise as a family friendly server. Family friendly doesn't mean that we won't allow adult themed things, however, but what it does mean is that those adult themed things are going to be veiled to protect(to a point) those who it may not be appropriate for. In essence, Justicar created this world and put rules in place that would for the most part protect younger players while at the same time not completely barring more adult themed RP for those who wish to participate in that. I think there is also the role of the parents in this situation to be informed as to what games their child is playing and on what server they're logging in.
Also, comparing swearing to cybering/torture is comparing apples to oranges, one requires consent and the other doesn't. If someone decides to drop an F bomb or whatever else out in the middle of Greatgaunt then everyone sees it whether they consented to see it or not(no logging in doesn't mean they consented to see an F bomb dropped but when the swearing character logged in they WERE consenting to follow the rules about NOT using swearing). Meanwhile, the two people upstairs at the inn had to consent with each other before that kind of RP was started. Consent can be the same as simply engaging and doesn't necessarily need to be cleared through tells such as "hey let's cyber, you okay with that?". Since we don't discourage nor do encourage cybering even since the RP is kept to tells it's appropriate since the value of that kind of RP doesn't tend to be wide sweeping or really very valuable to most other characters across the server at all. Two people cybering is literally just between those two characters and so in that case it hardly matters if things are kept to tells or even whispers since it's probably not likely those two players really need others to know, nor do they want them to know about an intimate RP moment between them. The big thing is, cybering in general just isn't very impactful when it comes to anything server wide because most people simply couldn't care less about the two people upstairs, out in the forest, etc, etc.
Having said all that, I do understand your point and the question you are posing here. Why do we allow something explicit like cybering yet disallow swearing?
It really just comes down to the fact that cybering requires consent, engagement, and ultimately it's a choice between parties, it is also for the most part kept very hush hush between characters and it's not something that's out in the open. With swearing, there is no consent, no choice, and everyone is forced to basically "experience it" whether they want to or not. Swearing is something that affects far more people out in the open and isn't something Justicar wanted when he created FRC. Justicar didn't want swearing because it changes the vibe and feel of a server where kids could come and play and regardless of what some of us may think, what is appropriate for one kid might not be appropriate for another. This is one of those cases where we aren't going to play guessing games, we're just going to not have swearing plain and simple. Most of us these days are older and the majority of our player base as far as we know ARE adults but that doesn't change the fact that we still want to be a place that is family friendly.
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Post by Sioladuil on Dec 28, 2019 6:25:40 GMT -5
I'm one of the people who have difficulty roleplaing sex. The strange part is that I am not a prude by any means. I just find it extremely uncomfortable and can't write anything at all in those situations. I know that others in my situation prefer to stay out of romance roleplay. But I like it. So far I haven't had any issues with that rule. Even when servers don't have it, my boundaries have been respected. If I'm not asked, I make sure the other player knows, when the need for it arrives. The only time any of my characters have been tortured was 10 years ago or so, on another server, by a DM-ran villain. One time, long ago, has one of my characters been made to an offering to an evil deity in a manner that changed their alignment. This has been done with my permission. It was obtained beforehand, without too many details given. So, in summary, the rules have always been followed on my side,by those that play and have played with me. Sums it up for me. |
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Post by Alizarin Spion - Sleeper Agent on Dec 28, 2019 7:48:03 GMT -5
My bad and thank you for the constructive reply. I honestly expected that it would come down to consent because when it boils down to it, it's usually that point that is the deciding factor. The reason why I specifically mentioned rule 4 (swearing ) and 6 (cybersex) is because they're both reinforced by the fact that there are minors playing the game and it gave me the impression that this is a family-friendly server. Essentially, you're allowed to gain consent to do the F-bomb, but you're in no way able to get consent to say the F-bomb. You have the firm standpoint and then you have rule 6 where you twist, turn and bend backwards as much as possible for it to be allowed in-game in service of what you say is a minority playerbase, why this compromise to something that applies to so few? And then there's the security of it, I mean people have been lying over the internet about age, gender, identity (appearance, looks) since the beginning of time, I mean I've stumbled upon several accounts of it just within the last couple of weeks. And I do not want to be doubtful but I have a hard time seeing how the DM team would go around ensuring that people are showing each other their RL IDs to each other prior to engaging in cybersex, so are we basically expecting that people are rigorously doing this without any actual oversight? Should it even have to be a thing where DMs DO go around and check people's RL information just to be able to cybersex in-game? I wonder what the repercussions would be if a minor actually managed to end up cybersexing, do we blame the minor, blame the parents whilst we adults brush off responsibility? All in order to keep something allowed on the server, which again, adds no value to the server or the quality of RP. I do not even want to call it "RP" or even "ERP" because it's none of those things, it's just pornography and I'm getting the impression that there's a lack of oversight of minors potentially gaining access to that pornography. It's easier for a parent to call an ISP to have certain websites blocked, but how easy is it for a parent to be finding their way to the forum of every game or server their kids are playing? My parents don't even know how to work a printer. You're all tech-savvy adults and it wouldn't hurt if you actually helped out a bit to make the internet more safe for younger to navigate. I didn't have high expectations when making this thread, I just thought it was worth bringing it up for people to reflect on, I sincerely hope that you do take this into consideration. I mean it is a small personal sacrifice and it isn't really a detriment to the server to disallow it. I will oversee the thread and see what other DMs or players have to say but I feel I've said my piece. Thanks again. |
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Andros
Old School
I only know that I know nothing
Posts: 437
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Post by Andros on Dec 28, 2019 8:52:53 GMT -5
This sounds like a pet peeve to me, as far as I know it's never been an issue in the 10+ years the server has been running so why bring up something that's not causing any problems?
And let's be honest even if you where to outlaw it it will still happen as Tells can't be seen by the DMs, so it would become something else the DMs have to police. But worse since there would be no evidence unless this theoretical nwn-playing-kid-in-2020 went to the trouble of taking screenshots/setting up a ledger.
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