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Post by StabbingNirvana on Aug 8, 2019 16:15:02 GMT -5
urizielThe internet says: Ex-Monks A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities. Like a member of any other class, a monk may be a multiclass character, but multiclass monks face a special restriction. A monk who gains a new class or (if already multiclass) raises another class by a level may never again raise her monk level, though she retains all her monk abilities. And the internet never lies. So you could start as a Tormish paladin, then go monk for however many levels you want, then return to the path of the paladin without issue. You won't be able to return to monk unless you somehow fandangle some silly story that you were trained by some Hin Fist since monks don't particularly have to be part of an order dedicated to their own faith as far as I know. Or if you're really courageous, you could be a halfling paladin of Torm who went Yondallan monk, and returned to the path of the Tormish paladin …. then returned to the Yondallan monk order and vice versa over and over and over again. Polytheism is so weird!
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Post by Munroe on Aug 9, 2019 1:50:25 GMT -5
uriziel The internet says: Ex-Monks A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities. Like a member of any other class, a monk may be a multiclass character, but multiclass monks face a special restriction. A monk who gains a new class or (if already multiclass) raises another class by a level may never again raise her monk level, though she retains all her monk abilities. And the internet never lies. So you could start as a Tormish paladin, then go monk for however many levels you want, then return to the path of the paladin without issue. You won't be able to return to monk unless you somehow fandangle some silly story that you were trained by some Hin Fist since monks don't particularly have to be part of an order dedicated to their own faith as far as I know. Or if you're really courageous, you could be a halfling paladin of Torm who went Yondallan monk, and returned to the path of the Tormish paladin …. then returned to the Yondallan monk order and vice versa over and over and over again. Polytheism is so weird!
Internet is wrong as relates to FRC's monk multiclassing. On a related question. Are PC's required to start as a monk? I thought I heard once that monks and paladins are required to begin as such, but I may have just imagined that. If the order doesn't allow for the class they start as, then they can't multi-class into paladin or monk. The same rule applies for taking level 1 in the class as applies for every other level. So no, they don't have to start as a paladin or a monk, but they do have to start as a class allowed by their paladin or monk order, and they have to follow the applicable rules of that order. So, for instance, Old Order, which specifies that monk levels must be higher than the total of all their other possible class levels (rogue, sorcerer, and/or shadowdancer) would have to start as a monk, and maintain their monk level higher than the combined totals of their other levels. The same goes for Sun Soul monks, who can have any one other class (provided that class isn't otherwise restricted) as long as their monk level is higher. In these cases, the monk class must be taken first so it can be higher at the start of the multi-classing, and they'd have to take two levels of monk before multi-classing. Monks of the Hin Fist, which allows, rogue, fighter, and paladin [of Yondalla] multiclassing, could start as a monk, rogue, fighter, or paladin, and multiclass into monk. Note that a paladin/monk of Yondalla could not take the Hin-fist allowed rogue or fighter classes and continue to take paladin levels, because their paladin order doesn't allow them. Paladins of Yondalla (order: Shields of Yondalla) could start as a monk of the Hin Fist and multi-class into paladin, as long as they didn't also have rogue or fighter classes, because the Shields of Yondalla paladin order doesn't allow those multi-class options. Making sense? Is this an FRC rule or a PNP rule? I admit it's been years since I last read up on the 3rd edition source book but I don't remember such a rule This I think comes from "the Deities Do’s and Don’ts web supplement, pgs. 7-8" In other words, a 3rd edition source. The FRC rule regarding not multiclassing into level one of monk or paladin with classes outside of an order's allowed classes it an interpretation that applies the same standard to level one in the monk or paladin class as is applied to all other levels of the class. The individual multi-classing options are from Deity Do's and Don'ts. |
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Post by malclave on Aug 9, 2019 3:21:26 GMT -5
Sorry if I'm obtuse, but I still don't fully follow the logic on this. It seems to me that DM Sauron 's last post on the Q&A thread ( frc.proboards.com/thread/31054/monk-paladin-multiclassing-restrictions-loopholes ) is correct, and a monk would be able to become a paladin of Torm. 1. Character begins as monk, advances however far is desired as single class. No order is required. 2. Character abandons monk and multiclasses into paladin, Order of the Golden Lion. The order allows any one other class, so monks are allowed by the order, satisfying the 2014 ruling above. 3. Character would only be allowed to advance as a paladin, not as a monk. If a third class is taken, the character could no longer advance as either monk or paladin. 4. Sun Soul would not be able to do the corresponding multiclass because of the requirement that the monk level be higher. I'm probably just missing a step in my logic, and would appreciate it if you could point it out. |
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Post by StabbingNirvana on Aug 9, 2019 6:16:42 GMT -5
You're not missing anything, Malclave. It's a house rule. Sounds like the characters are tied to the multiclassing rules post leaving said monk/paladin order or I assume they lose their paladin/monk levels. It's all really sketchy as I don't think these rules are particularly hammered out anywhere. frc.proboards.com/thread/29392/server-expanded-character-creation-rules |
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Post by Sioladuil on Aug 9, 2019 6:33:32 GMT -5
Hey guys,
Just my two cents for my own clarification.
A few years back there was a Halfling Monk who left the Monk Order and started taking Cleric/Wizard Levels (I forget which, pretty sure it was Cleric) but was never asked to remake to remove that monk level... They just kept that one level on Monk.
Is doing this now against the rules?
(Asking because I have a char/legacy concept idea)
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Post by Munroe on Aug 9, 2019 17:14:54 GMT -5
Sorry if I'm obtuse, but I still don't fully follow the logic on this. It seems to me that DM Sauron 's last post on the Q&A thread ( frc.proboards.com/thread/31054/monk-paladin-multiclassing-restrictions-loopholes ) is correct, and a monk would be able to become a paladin of Torm. 1. Character begins as monk, advances however far is desired as single class. No order is required. 2. Character abandons monk and multiclasses into paladin, Order of the Golden Lion. The order allows any one other class, so monks are allowed by the order, satisfying the 2014 ruling above. 3. Character would only be allowed to advance as a paladin, not as a monk. If a third class is taken, the character could no longer advance as either monk or paladin. 4. Sun Soul would not be able to do the corresponding multiclass because of the requirement that the monk level be higher. I'm probably just missing a step in my logic, and would appreciate it if you could point it out. What you've described is possible, yes. It is possible to do a lot when leaving your orders. Multiclassing and maintaining your orders is the hard part. A character could begin as a monk, advance as the monk. Leave their order (or have no order) and multiclass into a paladin order that allows monks or any one other class (which includes monk as the one class). The hard part is to do that and maintain your monk order. Hey guys, Just my two cents for my own clarification. A few years back there was a Halfling Monk who left the Monk Order and started taking Cleric/Wizard Levels (I forget which, pretty sure it was Cleric) but was never asked to remake to remove that monk level... They just kept that one level on Monk. Is doing this now against the rules? (Asking because I have a char/legacy concept idea) No, the character in question was not in violation of the rules. They had left their order (or had no order) so could no longer multi-class into the monk class. They were free to pursue other classes though (as long as they didn't violate those classes multiclass restrictions.) |
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Post by Sioladuil on Aug 9, 2019 17:20:25 GMT -5
Sorry if I'm obtuse, but I still don't fully follow the logic on this. It seems to me that DM Sauron 's last post on the Q&A thread ( frc.proboards.com/thread/31054/monk-paladin-multiclassing-restrictions-loopholes ) is correct, and a monk would be able to become a paladin of Torm. 1. Character begins as monk, advances however far is desired as single class. No order is required. 2. Character abandons monk and multiclasses into paladin, Order of the Golden Lion. The order allows any one other class, so monks are allowed by the order, satisfying the 2014 ruling above. 3. Character would only be allowed to advance as a paladin, not as a monk. If a third class is taken, the character could no longer advance as either monk or paladin. 4. Sun Soul would not be able to do the corresponding multiclass because of the requirement that the monk level be higher. I'm probably just missing a step in my logic, and would appreciate it if you could point it out. What you've described is possible, yes. It is possible to do a lot when leaving your orders. Multiclassing and maintaining your orders is the hard part. A character could begin as a monk, advance as the monk. Leave their order (or have no order) and multiclass into a paladin order that allows monks or any one other class (which includes monk as the one class). The hard part is to do that and maintain your monk order. Hey guys, Just my two cents for my own clarification. A few years back there was a Halfling Monk who left the Monk Order and started taking Cleric/Wizard Levels (I forget which, pretty sure it was Cleric) but was never asked to remake to remove that monk level... They just kept that one level on Monk. Is doing this now against the rules? (Asking because I have a char/legacy concept idea) No, the character in question was not in violation of the rules. They had left their order (or had no order) so could no longer multi-class into the monk class. They were free to pursue other classes though (as long as they didn't violate those classes multiclass restrictions.) Thanks mate! |
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Post by shivers on Aug 9, 2019 19:55:47 GMT -5
jeez - u need to go to law school to sort this out.
you guys really love your little rules. lol
good luck!
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Post by Alizarin Spion - Sleeper Agent on Aug 9, 2019 20:20:47 GMT -5
jeez - u need to go to law school to sort this out. That's Munroe for you, he's my lawyer, proffessor, doctor, google robot, you name it. When he isn't by the computer and gracing us with his wisdom, he's out shooting deer. That's a real man for you. |
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Post by Munroe on Aug 9, 2019 23:12:39 GMT -5
jeez - u need to go to law school to sort this out. That's Munroe for you, he's my lawyer, proffessor, doctor, google robot, you name it. When he isn't by the computer and gracing us with his wisdom, he's out shooting deer. That's a real man for you. I'm in West Virginia but I actually don't hunt. I do, however, love deer meat. I haven't had any for years. (I should ask my grandmother if she knows where I can get some when deer season starts. People that do hunt tend to end-up with a lot of meat.) The logic of this level thing is really straight forward. If it applies to subsequent levels of the class, it applies to level one of the class too. Just apply the same metric as through you were taking level 2 in the class when you're taking level 1 in the class. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2019 7:07:27 GMT -5
Country ROAAAAAAAAAAADSSSSS
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Post by shivers on Aug 10, 2019 15:56:36 GMT -5
more rules actually reduce the quality of rp. back “in the day”, we learned that lesson. when gamespy was up and running, we consistently had more players than even arelith or blackstone did. for us - it happened almost overnight when we deliberately pushed for a 50% reduction of server rules. i know, i know - it is counter intuitive. but i will bet anyone here a steak diner it is true.  my advice - dont bother with monk classes. this server is scripted to disuade them (unintentionally i’m sure) - u are better off as a cleric or straight up fighter. good luck! |
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